Len Cnut Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 19 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: Wilson? Reformist PM at his best: the Open University; liberalising sodomy laws permitting homosexuality; kept us out of Vietnam (Australia had troops in Vietnam); abolished capital punishment; liberalization of abortion. Soft-left, not a loony. ''Penny for your pound''. NB, that I am referring to Churchill's second ministry (1951-55), not his war time ministry (1940-45). He was basically too old during his second tenure. Was just surprised to hear you held Wilson in such high regard but then I suppose your criticisms of Labour have not been of Labour per se but more the hard left types and/or Blairite types. Churchill though, second tenure aside, any man who fuckin', to my mind, if one can possibly narrow such things down to a single person, is responsible for saving civilisation as we know it, has got to rank higher than Mags. Any fuckin' day. And this is coming from a wog Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 1 minute ago, Len Cnut said: Was just surprised to hear you held Wilson in such high regard but then I suppose your criticisms of Labour have not been of Labour per se but more the hard left types and/or Blairite types. Churchill though, second tenure aside, any man who fuckin', to my mind, if one can possibly narrow such things down to a single person, is responsible for saving civilisation as we know it, has got to rank higher than Mags. Any fuckin' day. And this is coming from a wog If I was to expand the list to the whole 20th century onwards I'd go, 1/ Stanley Baldwin (utter dire; fluffed RAF estimates which conceded air parity to the Luftwaffe; allowed fascism to run rampant on the continent; shite economy - the General Strike). 2/ Chamberlain (Munich) 3/ Theresa May 4/ Brown 5/ Call Me Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 11 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: If I was to expand the list to the whole 20th century onwards I'd go, 1/ Stanley Baldwin (utter dire; fluffed RAF estimates which conceded air parity to the Luftwaffe; allowed fascism to run rampant on the continent; shite economy - the General Strike). 2/ Chamberlain (Munich) 3/ Theresa May 4/ Brown 5/ Call Me Dave I always felt sort of sorry for Chamberlain. Always struck me as a nice sort of bloke. I've never been the type to hold being weak against someone but then we're talking about leading a nation here. Baldwin seems a fair shout. I have a tendency to decontextualise older politicians, I consequence I suppose of not having lived through their times but yeah, General Strike, a pretty substantial fuckery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spunko12345 Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 9 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: He never quite recovered from this, did he? I remember him standing on a platform giving a speech and being savagely heckled for having green socks on. I fell asleep during a speech his wife Glenys was giving to my school on a trip Brussels European parliament in school. A lecture from Glenys Kinnock in the bowels the dreary grey European parliament building, with a hangover. You would have fucking loved that eh 😄 24 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: Am I missing a part of some sort of joke here? I mean funny though this is I don't see a punchline, is this an actual thing or...? I mean how would anyone know that it was exactly a week, I mean I know she was pretty extensively brown-nosed but thats taking the concept rather far! I was trying to start a malicious rumour but now you've gone and ruined it by getting me to explain myself. Thanks. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: I always felt sort of sorry for Chamberlain. Always struck me as a nice sort of bloke. I've never been the type to hold being weak against someone but then we're talking about leading a nation here. Baldwin seems a fair shout. I have a tendency to decontextualise older politicians, I consequence I suppose of not having lived through their times but yeah, General Strike, a pretty substantial fuckery. Great chap. Home counties gentlemen. And that is just the point. He couldn't comprehend European fascism. Benito, Adolf, they played him for a fool. In fairness once Hitler invaded the rest of Czechoslovakia he opposed Hitler in earnest, but his ministry botched the beginning of world war two - as demonstrated in the Norwegian debacle (in fairness, Churchill deserves some blame). PS Oh yes, I missed Eden in the above. Slot him in in front of Brown. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted April 27, 2019 Share Posted April 27, 2019 Gordon Brown does deserve some credit for keeping us out of the Eurozone as Chancellor. The ''five economic tests'' which ''needed to be met before joining''. It was a crafty ruse: only Gordon Brown knew what these ''five economic tests'' were haha. A true will o the wisp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLegend Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 I'm confused here, why are we supposed to be cheering on a potential military coup and civil war in Venezuela? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 25 minutes ago, AtariLegend said: I'm confused here, why are we supposed to be cheering on a potential military coup and civil war in Venezuela? Well City are gonna win the league so the scousers need something to get excited about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted April 30, 2019 Share Posted April 30, 2019 56 minutes ago, AtariLegend said: I'm confused here, why are we supposed to be cheering on a potential military coup and civil war in Venezuela? Because thats what the Imperialists want! Fall in line! Because GB has become the US militaries lap dog. Because Canada is doing a majority of the heavy lifting in the coup and GB kinda owes the Canadian MIC after they cleaned up GB's mess in TCI. Because your economy is fed on neoliberal expansion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtariLegend Posted May 1, 2019 Share Posted May 1, 2019 Frank Underwood is gone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvanG Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 I received my voting pass (is that what it's called?) in the mail today for the European Parliament elections, you Brits as excited as I am? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 26 minutes ago, EvanG said: I received my voting pass (is that what it's called?) in the mail today for the European Parliament elections, you Brits as excited as I am? So it is a democracy after all? @DieselDaisybeen going on and on about how undemocratic it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 3 hours ago, SoulMonster said: So it is a democracy after all? @DieselDaisybeen going on and on about how undemocratic it is. ...voting for a chamber (the EU Parliament) with no legislative initiative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: ...voting for a chamber (the EU Parliament) with no legislative initiative. "Together with the European Commission and the Council of the European Union ('the Council', which should not be confused with the European Council and the Council of Europe) it exercises the tripartite legislative function of the EU". "Parliament is composed of 751 members (MEPs), that will become 705 starting from the 2019–2024 legislature (because of specific provisions adopted about Brexit), who represent the second-largest democratic electorate in the world (after the Parliament of India) and the largest trans-national democratic electorate in the world (375 million eligible voters in 2009)". From Wikipedia. Not that every institution in an organization needs to have legislative powers for its election to be democratic. Edited May 2, 2019 by SoulMonster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 Just now, SoulMonster said: "Together with the European Commission and the Council of the European Union ('the Council', which should not be confused with the European Council and the Council of Europe) it exercises the tripartite legislative function of the EU". From Wikipedia. Not that every institution in an organization needs to have legislative powers for its election to be democratic. I repeat, it has no legislative initiative. Legislative initiative is located in the executive (i.e., the unelected Commission). This is demonstrable fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: I repeat, it has no legislative initiative. Legislative initiative is located in the executive (i.e., the unelected Commission). This is demonstrable fact. Ah, right. The Commission isn't democratically elected. Still, ratification happens in the elected Parliament so claiming it isn't democratic is a bit of a stretch. Still, the EU could be better. Improve, don't abandon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: Ah, right. The Commission isn't democratically elected. Still, ratification happens in the elected Parliament so claiming it isn't democratic is a bit of a stretch. Still, the EU could be better. Improve, don't abandon. Norway aren't members are they? Or so I think I read somewhere, probably on this forum actually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 1 minute ago, SoulMonster said: Ah, right. The Commission isn't democratically elected. Still, ratification happens in the elected Parliament so claiming it isn't democratic is a bit of a stretch. Still, the EU could be better. Improve, don't abandon. It is the democratic element in the constitution, certainly, but it cannot be considered much of a Parliament if it cannot propose legislation. At best it is a vetoing/ratification body. 2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: Norway aren't members are they? Or so I think I read somewhere, probably on this forum actually. EFTA which means also that they are in the EEA. The UK was actually a founding member of the EFTA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 @DieselDaisy, Im curious for your opinion of England's House of Lords? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 14 minutes ago, soon said: @DieselDaisy, Im curious for your opinion of England's House of Lords? Structually sound? What is he, a chartered surveyor?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, soon said: @DieselDaisy, Im curious for your opinion of England's House of Lords? It could use reform in that the 90 hereditaries should be replaced with appointees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 17 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: Norway aren't members are they? Or so I think I read somewhere, probably on this forum actually. That's right. The fear of sharing our wealth with the rest of Europe has prevented it twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soon Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said: Structually sound? What is he, a chartered surveyor?! Their full title should clarify that they aint a house the Right Honourable the Lords Spiritual and Temporal of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland in Parliament assembled. 1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said: It could use reform in that the 90 hereditaries should be replaced with appointees. I was shocked to learn that they have hereditaries. And that the Church of England has an automatic position in your parliament. Like, wtf!!! I gather you are in favour of appointees because they can only really coerce the decisions of the elected body? Here, our Senators are unelected and actually have some legislative power (just a bit more then your house o lords) so I consider it to be a very undemocratic system of 'sober second thought.' But given the difference that the House of Lords only offers revision and criticism, you dont feel they are an undemocratic institution, I guess? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 16 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said: It is the democratic element in the constitution, certainly, but it cannot be considered much of a Parliament if it cannot propose legislation. At best it is a vetoing/ratification body. Very few democracies (any?) are designed so that all branches of power is democratically elected. In that sense, none of them are pure democracies. Typically the judiciary isn't, but rather appointed. And the European Commission, although not elected directly, are chosen by people who have been elected. So it is always a question of how many degrees of separation from the voters the governance lies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted May 2, 2019 Share Posted May 2, 2019 10 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: That's right. The fear of sharing our wealth with the rest of Europe has prevented it twice. Oh but you’re alright with us into the deep end eh, honestly, you’re like the WW1 generals ‘push on Tommy, we’ll be bringing up the rear’ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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