What happened to Steven Adler?

[annabanana]

There probably was no real intention of including Steven they just led him to believe that so he'll keep his mouth shut. He has to keep some members of his axl circus band so it won't seem that he wasted all those decades which he did. That's also why they still play CD songs maybe slash and duff are contractually obligated to play certain number of CD songs of their choosing. 

[Modano09]

2 hours ago, Bassist4 said:

Im sorry but i never in my life seen someone like Steven Adler who wants to play their instrument so badly with a band he helped make huge...only for that said band to do a half ass reunion and treat him like dog shit wrapped in cat shit yet he still thanks them...regardless of what Steven did in the past it is so much easier to forgive...IMO steven seems to have such a great outgoing fun personality who seems to enjoy playing the drums more than ever...why they cant just bring him back and let him play is beyond me...cos that is clearly all the guy wants to do is play!

 

as for steven being unreliable or whatever else anyone thinks as to why he cant be givin a full chance at a tour ...umm perhaps you all forgot the uyi tours when axl would "maybe" show up or maybe not or maybe he would come on stage and leave for a tantrum halfway through..yet everyone seems to have forgiven him for that..right?

The last time Adler was given a chance was in 2013 when Duff invited him to open for Loaded in Japan. How did that turn out? Alder went off on a bender and then whined about Duff getting mad at him for it. He couldn't handle that and you think it's realistic to have him be the full-time drummer for a tour of this magnitude? After the Loaded tour Duff can't even vouch for him!

Aside from that, it took some work for Axl/Slash/Duff to mend fences and get on the same page. It was/might be a fragile situation and there was work put into them agreeing on what their goal was here and what they needed from each other to make it work - ie, Slash doesn't do interviews about the reunion, Axl shows up on time. Adler's obnoxious and doesn't have the tact to work within a situation like that. We've seen that already. He's scheduled for one show, he shows up at another expecting to play just because he showed up. Then he complains that they only let him play once on the show he wasn't supposed to be at in the first place. While Axl/Slash/Duff have found a way to communicate and co-exist, you'd have Adler hounding them about what he wants to do and complaining about what he doesn't like to the media. 

 

 

[coolranchdressing!]

On September 1, 2017 at 0:49 PM, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

Sadly, I think Axl pretty much did all but chain Steven to a bed.  If being issued with a contract that basically says GNR or drugs - please choose - doesn't make you wake up and take stock of your life, what would?  Even near death experiences weren't enough.  It's sad and a waste of talent.

very sad indeed...people with addiction/disease don't see things like you and I (assuming  ). 

[Magnus Cavalerra]

"Adler" and "Reliable" cannot be used in the same sentence.

[Derick]

Well, I'll put my opinion about it. I support 100% their decision to leave Adler out of the tour. Like everyone here, I don´t know the real reason, I can only assume. And based on what has already happened on tours where he tried and failed, I suppose the main reason is the risk of him falling again.

Let me explain my assumption. Not all addicts under treatment behave the same way, not all addicts react in the same way to treatment and not everyone is able to fight against the temptations of everyday life and succeed. It's one thing to be clean while you're at home with all the care and all the shielding that the problem requires otherwise is you being in unfamiliar surroundings, traveling the world, jumping from hotel to hotel, every 2 or 3 days receive a ton of adrenaline for playing in front of thousands of people. Someone might say that Slash and Duff are also addicts and can stay clean. Like I said before, not everyone reacts in the same way. Luckily they can keep themselves sober. Adler has already proven that he can´t handle it.

Anyway..Unlike many here, I don´t believe they have let Adler off the tour because they are bad people, or because they are selfish or anything of the sort. For me it was to protect him and also protect themselves. Despite his age, Adler is still an innocent child, still a dreamer, he is pure emotion and, unfortunately, also very vulnerable. So I think the last thing they want is to have to deal with this kind of problem during such a hectic tour. Not to mention the possibility of something very tragic happening .. Someone here remembers Weiland? Yeah..

[vloors]

Steven Adler is busy making art these days. 

 

[RONIN]

Good for Adler.

On an unrelated note, I wonder if anyone has told him that the late 80's mullet is no longer in fashion.

[Sosso]

Just now, RONIN said:

Good for Adler.

On an unrelated note, I wonder if anyone has told him that the late 80's mullet is no longer in fashion.

He would look weird with cornrows.

[RONIN]

20 minutes ago, Sosso said:

He would look weird with cornrows.

Only Axl can pull those off.

[DieselDaisy]

It was a load of hypocritical bollocks, Adler's sacking. Let's look at the Illusion era, the immediate era after Adler's sacking? Slash at the time was running around outside stark bollock naked, hiding from ''little devils''; he also used to regularly pee his leather trews. Duff had big revolting abscesses on his neck and hands (he covers them with gloves on the 1993 tour) because of all of the booze. But they managed to be at least reliable. The only unreliable one of the lot was Rose who was acting like an idiot, not starting the gig until hours and stomping off stage in petulance causing riots.

None of these people have a moral cause to sack Adler. None of these people, it could be said, were inherently better at keeping things operating (considering the band collapsed anyway!)?

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

It was a load of hypocritical bollocks, Adler's sacking. Let's look at the Illusion era, the immediate era after Adler's sacking? Slash at the time was running around outside stark bollock naked, hiding from ''little devils''; he also used to regularly pee his leather trews. Duff had big revolting abscesses on his neck and hands (he covers them with gloves on the 1993 tour) because of all of the booze. But they managed to be at least reliable. The only unreliable one of the lot was Rose who was acting like an idiot, not starting the gig until hours and stomping off stage in petulance causing riots.

None of these people have a moral cause to sack Adler. None of these people, it could be said, were inherently better at keeping things operating (considering the band collapsed anyway!)?

At least they could play. I mean, if Steven was so far gone he couldn't keep time then they made the right decision, even if they weren't perfect either.

[DieselDaisy]

4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

At least they could play. I mean, if Steven was so far gone he couldn't keep time then they made the right decision, even if they weren't perfect either.

Well they were not exactly playing when Rose hadn't arrived at eleven at night, were they, and they were further again not playing when Rose decided that he wanted a toddler's fit, stomping off stage? I repeat, the only unreliable performer was Axl.

Edited September 12, 2017 by DieselDaisy

[SoulMonster]

20 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Well they were not exactly playing when Rose hadn't arrived at eleven at night, were they, and they were further again not playing when Rose decided that he wanted a toddler's fit, stomping off stage? I repeat, the only unreliable performer was Axl.

You don't know whether Steven wasn't even more unreliable than Axl turned out to be. You have absolutely no idea about that. Just like me. But unlike you, I trust the guys who were there:

Duff: Steven was fully strung out and babbling incoherently much of the time [Duff's autobiography, "It's So Easy", 2011, p. 151]

Slash: When we started rehearsing the material [for Use Your Illusion] that's when Steven's house of cards came crashing down. He was utterly useless when put to the test: most of the time he'd fade away from the proper time signature somewhere in the middle of the song or just forget where he was altogether. He was just incapable of locking in with Duff or me like he used to do. It was pretty dire; something had to be done (...). That's not to say we weren't really patient with Steven. We tried everything we could think of, though we probably should've taken further action...though I'm not sure what that could have been. We'd gone so far as to bring in people like Bob Timmons, the rehab specialist who had helped clean up Mötley Crue, and others who were experienced in dealing with extreme cases. Their efforts were futile [Bozza, Anthony, & Slash (2007). Slash. Harper Entertainment: New York. p. 301]

Duff: We were saying to him, 'Steven, you're fucked up.' We said: 'Me and Slash, we're fucked up, but you're really fucked up'. I remember saying to him: 'If me and Slash think you're fucked up, think about who's saying that...[Classic Rock Duff McKagan Interview, Classic Rock October 2002]

Duff: I hardly ever had to do bass fixes because Steven and I were so solid as a rhythm section. But when we had tried to lay down the basic tracks for 'Civil War,' producer Mike Clink and I had to patch together the drum track from dozens of inadequate takes - by hand, as this was before digital editing made that sort of thing easier [Duff's autobiography, "It's So Easy", 2011, p. 163]

Slash: Our man Steve had built himself up a pretty pesky drug habit and was in full denial. Steve never grew out of those junior high rock-and-roll fantasies, even when in threat of losing them was staring him in the face (...). Duff and I split our time between jamming at Mates and monitoring Steven who (...) was as sneaky as could be about his consumption. When we were in Chicago, everyone had started  to see signs that he was becoming a little bit neurotic and frail, but back in L.A. in my strung-out haze, I hadn't registered how bad off he was. At this point I could now see that his mental and physical health had become a bit questionable. Under the circumstances it was forgiveable, but I think somewhere along the line we'd forgotten that Steven was the type who needed somebody to look out for him all the time. He was like a curious kid you couldn't leave alone in the house (...). Steve didn't have the wherewithal to see it as clearly or take steps to change it. He was in such denial, but it was tough for any of us to come down on him, even for Duff, who still did coke. Steven just didn't have all his faculties and couldn't maintain a line between his excesses and his productivity. We did what we had to do to get him back on track, but you couldn't tell Steven anything. He would argue and then throw it back in your face. (In fact, to this day he is still arguing about why he got kicked out of the band.) Sometimes I'd think that I'd gotten him to a place where he could understand...then he'd pull a stunt like not showing up for a rehearsal. It was impossible to reason with him - with anyone, I guess, in that state of mind. And, really, emotionally Steven wasn't much older than a third grader, a sixth grader tops. (...) Like Izzy and myself, Steven had slipped and lost his footing in a pile of cocaine and heroine, but unlike us, he couldn't regain his balance. (...) It must be some kind of record: in total, during this period, Steven escaped rehab twenty-two times [Bozza, Anthony, & Slash (2007). Slash. Harper Entertainment: New York, p.298-299]

Slash: At this point the truth was that if his playing had been fine, I don't think anyone would have cared what he was doing to himself (...). We weren't really concerned for Steven's health as much as we were pissed off that his addiction was handicapping his performance (...) [Bozza, Anthony, & Slash (2007). Slash. Harper Entertainment: New York. p. 302]

Duff: When producer Mike Clink and I had pieced together the drum track for 'Civil War' earlier that year, it was clear Steven was not going to be able to perform with us if he didn't turn things around. When we had played a couple songs to a huge crowd at Farm Aid in April, he was a mess onstage. After that we thought we could scare him straight. We told him we were auditioning drummers and figured he's snap out of it as soon as he heard that. When that didn't work, we hired a professional sober coach, Bob Timmons, who had helped Aerosmith get clean, to talk to him. [...] Slash and I served as the voice of the band during Steven's last days wit GN'R. But no matter what we said to him, nothing changed. We told him we were getting ready to enter the studio. Still no change. Finally, we suggested he get a lawyer. It was meant to scare him, but it proved convenient for Slash, Axl, Izzy and me. In the end we had our lawyer tell his lawyer that he was permanently out [Duff's autobiography, "It's So Easy", 2011, p. 171-172]

Slash: I felt really bad for Steven. He's saying stuff like "How could they do this to me?" But it wasn't a matter of how we could do this to him. It was how he could do this to us. He was taken care of by the band. Anybody who thinks we just kicked him out is just somebody who doesn't know what the fuck they're talking about and doesn't know what went on. We waited for him for a fucking year. How long is a band supposed to wait around? We all wanted to get out and play, and he wanted to play, too. He was just too loaded to do it. Really we did all kinds of things for this kid to get him back to normal, and he refused. Every time he went into rehab, he took off. [...] Steven had no control whatsoever. He didn't want to be in rehab and still wanted to be doing what he's doing. He thought it was very rock & roll. What do you tell a guy like that? So I just said, "Fuck it, that's it. I can't deal with it anymore, we have to get a new drummer" [Rolling Stone, January 1991]

Duff: We had recorded like 18 tracks for the Use Your Illusion I record with Steven and it just wasn’t happening. We put him through rehab like three times. I even went to his drug dealer’s house and threatened him with a gun and said, ‘Dude, if you ever...’ [Circus Magazine, 1991]

Axl: The misconception is that we kicked him out for the hell of it, and that l was the dictator behind it. The truth is, l probably fought a little harder to keep him in the band, because l wasn't working with him on a daily basis like the other guys were. They grew tired of not being able to get their work done because Steven wasn't capable of it. I've read interviews where he's saying that he's straight. Most of the time he isn't. (...) I feel bad for him in ways, because he's a real damaged person, but he's making choices to keep himself in that damage. There's nothing we can do at this point. We took him to rehabs, we threatened his drug dealers, we helped him when he slashed his wrists ["I, Axl" Del James, RIP Magazine - 1992]

Slash: We did 'Civil War' with Steven Adler [...]. And before I could put my guitars on, we had to edit the drums because he was so out of time. He couldn't keep his meter going [Guitar For The Practising Musician, April 1992]

Slash: We turned him onto drugs? My f?!king ass! That's so pathetic. Steven is scared to death of me. If he sees me in public, he just turns into a grovelling heap of defeatism. He just doesn't know what to say. He mumbles. I ask him a straightforward question, 'What's your motivation behind this?"' and he doesn't know what to say. Until now I haven't said a word about Steven to the press. I haven't attacked him; I haven't insulted him. I felt sorry for him. I didn't want to hurt him. We gave him a year to get his shit together. He couldn't play any of the new shit anyway. It got to a point where the material was way beyond him. I can't believe this little f?!ker. I read the shit he said about us in Circus (...) He said in that article he's sober now, but every time I've seen him, he's been wasted. I don't know what he's wasted on; I don't even care. I lost all concern and feeling for the guy. And I know a drug lie when I see one. We couldn't get any work done at Rumbo [the original studio where the band started work on Use Your Illusion three years ago]. He cost us a fortune. We had to edit the drum track to 'Civil War' just so we could play to it. At Rumbo, Steven would nod out to the point where he would be on a stool, but his head would be touching the floor. He'd say, 'I'm tired. I'm sleepy,' and he couldn't play. That was basically it. We gave him so many chances to turn around. We took him to Indiana, to play Farm Aid, and he jumps on the drum riser and almost breaks his f?!king neck. Look, Steven was a part of what made Guns N' Roses happen. He had a great energy. He wasn't an insanely great drummer, but he had tons of attitude. When the sex and drugs and the whole bit started to get out of hand, he went right along with it. But there's a certain time when you really have to control your life. I'm not preaching - I'm in no position to preach - but you must be aware of your own existence and take care of your own business. You just can't be loaded all the time and expect everything to be okay. Trust me, I know. As far as the rest of us, we bounced back, we straightened up. Steven never did. We always told each other when it was getting real bad. Everybody was there for the individual who needed help. That's how we're survived as a band. But Steven would never cop to anything, as far as telling us how bad it was. And now he's suing us. Thank you very much [Guns N' Roses From The Inside An exclusive report by Lonn M. Friend; RIP March 1992]

Izzy: At this time I had nearly managed to get clean up, from everything. When I was looking at the band, I would see Stevie, who was a good guy, who's been struggling with us during all these years, but couldn't handle it anymore. He was a real millstone, he needed to clean up! Fuck... We all tried to help him, to support him. But no, finally, we'd been on the road with this guy for years and we lived this dilemma: "OK. We leave him six months doing nothing without any guarantee it gets better, or we forget about the double album and we burry the band?" Actually, the industry's machine woke up and the answer was: "We take someone else to cut these records." It's wasn't an easy decision. Look, yesterday, I talked to him over the phone for the first time in a year. I told him: "God Stevie, get your act man, record..." And he answered: "Fuck, man, my reputation is fucked up." I couldn't help laughing! And I told him: "Open your eyes, your reputation has always been fucked up (laughs)! Get a band! Play!" [Rock & Folk, September 1992]

These are not descriptions of a reliable musician. Slash and Duff realized they were struggling, too, but at least they could for the most part be relied upon to do their job. 

 

Edited September 12, 2017 by SoulMonster

[DieselDaisy]

Well we have the evidence of the shows themselves. Adler hurt himself and had to be replaced by the chap from Cinderella and that is about it. Axl? Take your pick - and his behaviour began quite early - that show they were supposed to be supporting Alice Cooper and Izzy and Duff ended up singing all the songs.

Fact, Axl was far more unreliable than Adler.

[Magnus Cavalerra]

Damn, i feel sorry for SoulMonster he had to bring those valuable information to debate some people in denial who were defending a vegetable drug addict that'd been kicked 25 year ago, here in 2017.

[Lio]

7 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Well we have the evidence of the shows themselves. Adler hurt himself and had to be replaced by the chap from Cinderella and that is about it. Axl? Take your pick - and his behaviour began quite early - that show they were supposed to be supporting Alice Cooper and Izzy and Duff ended up singing all the songs.

Fact, Axl was far more unreliable than Adler.

You're being ridiculous now. I don't know if your dislike of Axl or of SoulMonster is your motivation in this.

I can't believe in 2017 some people are debating whether Steven Adler was reliable.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Lio

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Lio said:

You're being ridiculous now. I don't know if it's your dislike of Axl or of SoulMonster is your motivation in this.

I can't believe in 2017 some people are debating whether Steven Adler was reliable.

Correction, I'm not saying ''Adler was reliable''. I'm saying he was no less reliable than Slosh and Duff (or for that matter Izzy ''wizzing on a plane'' Stradlin), and significantly less reliable than Rose.

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Well we have the evidence of the shows themselves. Adler hurt himself and had to be replaced by the chap from Cinderella and that is about it. Axl? Take your pick - and his behaviour began quite early - that show they were supposed to be supporting Alice Cooper and Izzy and Duff ended up singing all the songs.

Fact, Axl was far more unreliable than Adler.

The shows BEFORE Steven was fired are no evidence of how bad he was when he was fired

[Lio]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

Correction, I'm not saying ''Adler was reliable''. I'm saying he was no less reliable than Slosh and Duff (or for that matter Izzy ''wizzing on a plane'' Stradlin), and significantly less reliable than Rose.

Okay. Apparently he was less reliable, as they couldn't get him to record UYI.

I think we all agree they were all a mess and each had their issues, but Steven was the one who completely messed up.

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

The shows BEFORE Steven was fired are no evidence of how bad he was when he was fired

By that logic, and sustaining the 'rightness' of Adler's sacking, we have to presume Adler's behaviour would have been significantly worse than Illusion era - how many riots is that - Rose, or Slosh with his urine smelling kegs and little devils chasing him. My argument is both correct pre-Adler and post-Adler.

Hypothetically, if they'd continued after 1993, McKagan's pancreas may have exploded mid-tour, hoodwinking the crowd into believing it was a pyrotechnic they'd just heard and not the last vestiges of Duff's digestive organ.

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

 I'm saying he was no less reliable than Slosh and Duff (or for that matter Izzy ''wizzing on a plane'' Stradlin), and significantly less reliable than Rose.

And again, you don't know that because you weren't there witnessing how bad he had become in 1990. Pointing out that he was okay in 1988 simply makes no sense. None of us were there in 1990, none of us were flies on the walls of those recording studios. We have to rely on what other guys have said, and the rest of the band speak in unison on this. All their quotes suggest he was unable to play, he couldn't keep time. There is no bigger liability to touring than that. Not even Axl's primadonna behavior could rival being unable to play.

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, Lio said:

Okay. Apparently he was less reliable, as they couldn't get him to record UYI.

I think we all agree they were all a mess and each had their issues, but Steven was the one who completely messed up.

I do not know how one can judge completeness here, but considering Slash was running away from devils, and that Duff's innards would soon go kaboom, I would not like to make a relative judgement against Adler here.

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

By that logic, and sustaining the 'rightness' of Adler's sacking, we have to presume Adler's behaviour would have been significantly worse than Illusion era - how many riots is that - Rose, or Slosh with his urine smelling kegs and little devils chasing him. My argument is both correct pre-Adler and post-Adler.

There is no fancy logic behind accepting the numerous statements that Steven's addiction had got him in such a bad state that he couldn't be relied upon to record and play. And yes, going by what was said about him, and you can read a lot of it from my earlier post, Steven presumably was in a worse state than Axl and Slash would turn out to be. For the most part they did really well.

 

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I do not know how one can judge completeness here, but considering Slash was running away from devils, and that Duff's innards would soon go kaboom, I would not like to make a relative judgement against Adler here.

But you are making a relative judgment when you mysteriously claim to know that Steven wasn't in as bad shape as everyone claimed he was, and would indeed have done a better job than Slash and Axl turned out to do in the upcoming recording and tour.

Is it the fact that I am posting here that forces you somehow to take absurd, opposing stances? Let's try this out: Eating rocks are bad for your teeth. Will you now defend rock eating?

[DieselDaisy]

How are we judging this?

The morality of sacking a serial drug offender? As ascertained, Hudson, McKagan and Stradlin were either notorious drug/booze addicts, or in the latter's example, had been drug addicts; Slash and Duff would continue being addicts - Slash, who would require a defibrillation, into the 2000s. Wasn't Slash pronounced clinical dead on a number of occasions?

Unreliability? Rose curtailed more shows than Adler. Rose cancelled more shows than Adler. Rose caused more riots than Adler through his petulance. Rose lost the band more money than Adler. Rose would continue to be as similarly unpredictable until relatively recent - the 2002 tour was a particularly bad example.