What happened to Steven Adler?

[Blackstar]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

You are right, maybe Niven just forgot Coma is mainly a Slash song, or maybe he misspoke and meant another song?

Probably he didn't remember the specifics and he just thought to himself that since it was long and he didn't like it, it had to be Axl's  

[Lio]

Yeah, I distinctly remember him talking about Coma. He said something like 'Can you believe a guy writes Civil War and then Coma? Coma? You put me in one. Hahahaha.' Not an exact quote, it's been years since I listened to it, but I remember it because at that point, I'd had enough. I turned it off and classified Niven as an irrational Axl hater

[DieselDaisy]

18 minutes ago, Lio said:

Yeah, I distinctly remember him talking about Coma. He said something like 'Can you believe a guy writes Civil War and then Coma? Coma? You put me in one. Hahahaha.' Not an exact quote, it's been years since I listened to it, but I remember it because at that point, I'd had enough. I turned it off and classified Niven as an irrational Axl hater

My sort of fella then haha

[Modano09]

21 hours ago, RONIN said:

@Modano09, we mostly agree on Adler but you're not able to be objective about the guy mate. He's got his faults and they are many, but your take on events is pretty one-sided. There was a lot more going on to effect his ouster if you look at the situation with an unbiased lens.

In light of some of the recent posts from Blackstar and others, my take is simply this:

*The guy was too deep into drugs to clean up for the new records. Even if they had waited another year it's anyone's guess whether Steven would have cleaned up in time. It seems to me, he was too far gone.

*Steven was too immature to see the gravity of the situation towards the end when most people in his place would have gotten their shit together. He just didn't take the gig seriously enough and this is something he continues to not take responsibility for. Even his NITL interviews continue the "woe is me" schtick. He put the band in a bad situation and it was unfair to them and he paid a heavy price. 

*He couldn't play the material. An even more significant part of the story than simply drugs. Adler could not adapt to the new direction of the band and Axl's vision. Axl's vision would eventually alienate Slash later on when he drifted towards other styles of music in the mid 90's. But it starts here with writing material that Steven could not adapt to. I'm not a drummer so I have no idea whether Illusion material is beyond Adler's abilities (he sounds great on YCBM) but his playing ability is questioned by Niven and Slash. Niven's tight with Duff, Izzy, and Slash - so it's hard to say whether he's being objective or covering for Sluff.

*The lawsuit situation has me leaning towards the band's side even though I want to give Steven the benefit of the doubt given the scumbaggery of the others. 

All that being said, I don't think Steven would have gotten kicked out of the band if..and this is a big if....he was on better terms with the others. I think there would have been more effort to work it out with him - the guy was just unceremoniously tossed out. We don't even know if they even considered having him sit out Illusions and returning for a future album or maybe sharing drum duties with Sorum on the tour. Seems like none of that was on the table given past interviews. He was literally erased from the band. And the lawsuit just sealed the deal as far as ending that relationship completely. It does seem weird for a band of brothers to toss one of their own out in the cold without even a chance for reinstatement.  

Axl delayed Illusions for several years and this is confirmed plenty of times by Izzy who had submitted some of his tapes two years in advance. The same Izzy who said Axl screamed at him and told him "There is no schedule!" when he asked about the recording delays for UYI. Axl also missed most of the Chicago sessions and only showed up right at the end. Let's not pretend Steven, as messed up as he was, delayed the album anywhere near as much as Axl. The truth is, the band was working on Axl's schedule and when Axl was ready to go, Steven wasn't and so the axe fell on Steven's neck. Simple as that. History would repeat itself when Duff would quit in '97 over the same reason - Axl not showing up and constant delays with the new record because of Axl being unwilling to stick to a schedule. If we're going to point out Steven's bad behavior, then it's only fair we do the same with Axl. 

Steven's problem was that he was completely alienated from the band by '89 and 90. He's said in interviews before how Duff and Slash stopped hanging out with him or would ditch him at parties towards the last few years of his time in GNR. There's actually a great article about the Chicago sessions that I posted last year which mentions how Duff/Slash would ditch Steven at the local chicago bars to party together. And then there's Axl - a person who did not get along with Steven from the start. Someone who had a very real dislike for him by the end due to the Erin Everly speedball incident. 

I don't think the guy had friends in the band towards the end (weren't they all ignoring him those last few months?) and I don't think any of them fought hard enough to keep him - I think they basically gave up and washed their hands after a certain point as Duff basically admits. The only guy who may have stuck up for him (Izzy) was deep in detox and barely around. So couple the bad behavior of Steven with the general apathy of the rest of the band and it's no surprise to me how things ended up. 

But can anyone imagine the same scenario with Slash and Axl's bestie Duff being a wasted mess who can barely play getting kicked out the way Steven was? Perhaps it might have happened the same way but it does make you wonder. I don't think Duff would have been treated this way but that's just conjecture on my part...

As I said in a previous post, when it comes to Steven....things just don't add up with the version of events we're given by the band. I don't doubt that Steven was a mess and that it was perhaps bad enough to get fired. I'm just skeptical of the band politics that led to his ouster.

Was Steven on bad terms with Slash and Duff? I can't remember Slash's book or what he's said about it but anything Duff's said has always been "we didn't want to throw him out but he left us no choice". Slash/Duff going off on their own and spending more time together doesn't necessarily mean they were anti-Adler, maybe they just didn't like hanging out with him that much? I get the sense he could be kind of obnoxious if you were around him all the time.

Axl's a weird one because it's Axl so you really don't know what to make of anything he says/does. Calling the band out for their drug use, for example, is a dick move by a guy who's been a dick numerous times, but he's also an emotional, caring guy, so I can believe he was calling them out because he was concerned about it. Has the full story about Erin/Steven ever came out? Because if it's true, and Steven nearly killed her, isn't that enough? Like if Axl wanted him out of the band based on that, isn't it kinda hard to argue against it? But according to Axl he protected Adler even afterwards. 

But I have no doubt now that aside from Adler being unreliable and too much of a risk, he also wouldn't jive with Axl and that's probably another aspect to it. I think Axl/Slash/Duff are all on the same page and know what they're doing, what the plan is, possible tentative plans, and seem to have figured out what they need from each other to make all this work. Adler doesn't have that tact. Like, I could see Slash/Duff wanting to do new music but realizing they have to gently coax Axl into it, convincing him he can still do it. Whereas Alder would be hounding him to make a new record and going on the radio to tell everyone he wants to make a new record but Axl won't do it. 

[RONIN]

2 hours ago, Modano09 said:

Was Steven on bad terms with Slash and Duff? I can't remember Slash's book or what he's said about it but anything Duff's said has always been "we didn't want to throw him out but he left us no choice". Slash/Duff going off on their own and spending more time together doesn't necessarily mean they were anti-Adler, maybe they just didn't like hanging out with him that much? I get the sense he could be kind of obnoxious if you were around him all the time.

My suspicion is that he wasn't on great terms with those two - allegedly, Adler was being ignored by everyone during the last few months prior to getting fired. I think the familial bonds were broken in '89 with Axl and Izzy off doing their own thing and Duff/Slash partying on their own. Steven was always the odd man out in the group. Sluff probably resented him because he didn't have his shit together and was delaying the recording sessions that were already behind schedule due to Axl. The relationship was strained further because of his annoying personality. Then you add the fact that he wasn't adapting to the UYI material properly and the band wasn't digging the drum parts he was writing for the new songs - this is probably the real deciding factor in his dismissal imho. There is no way he would have made it through Illusions even if he wasn't a drug addict. He was destined to get ejected because he could not play Axl's new material. And even that could possibly have been overcome if he was still liked by the actual decision makers in the band (Axl, Slash, and Duff). Duff isn't the most skilled bass player around but Axl wanted him around even in the CD era - being well liked goes a long way in overcoming other flaws.

The irony here is, most feel that had he played on Illusions, he would have elevated those albums. I know Sorum is popular on this forum but his work on Illusions is not well regarded critically. Steven's drumming has stood the test of time from a critical consensus. But again, it only further proves that the band didn't really care about Steven's playing ability. That's just the official story. They didn't like working with Adler and this is ultimately what got him fired.

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Axl's a weird one because it's Axl so you really don't know what to make of anything he says/does. Calling the band out for their drug use, for example, is a dick move by a guy who's been a dick numerous times, but he's also an emotional, caring guy, so I can believe he was calling them out because he was concerned about it. Has the full story about Erin/Steven ever came out? Because if it's true, and Steven nearly killed her, isn't that enough? Like if Axl wanted him out of the band based on that, isn't it kinda hard to argue against it? But according to Axl he protected Adler even afterwards. 

See, I actually take Axl at his word here. I think he probably did fight harder to keep him in over the others. He has mentioned before that he tried to protect Adler from Erin Everly's family members after the incident. Nobody knows what exactly happened since it's all hearsay. Depends on whose version you find more plausible. Steven is a well intentioned albeit moronic sort who probably could have done something like that to Erin but Erin Everly also has credibility issues. I lean more towards Steven's version of events. I think he was an easy scapegoat for Erin to blame. I suspect Axl doubts Erin's version of events since he tried to bury the hatchet with Adler back in '06 by inviting him to have a drink privately with him. That may have been facilitated by his chat earlier with Tom Zutaut about Zoot's run-in with Erin (as Blackstar pointed out earlier).

 I think Adler's sacking is more of a Duff/Slash decision and as I recall, early on, his anger was more directed towards those two in the press and how he felt betrayed by them. He rarely brings up Izzy which makes me think Iz wasn't really involved in his sacking. I mean if Adler was that much of a mess, and he's family and a founding member of the band, why not just ask him to take a break/clean up and join them on the tour later or let him record 1 or 2 songs for UYI if he's up for it and sit out the rest. Keep the guy in the band but just hire a session drummer to help. With the way these guys were pissing money away, it would have been nothing to hire a studio drummer to assist. But they straight up kicked him out and made him forfeit his stake in the band. That to me says that the others didn't want to work with Steven anymore. And history has proven this theory correct. Was he asked to join Velvet Revolver, Ju Ju Hounds, or Snakepit? Nope. Even Izzy sidestepped working with Adler. That to me speaks volumes.

Quote

 

But I have no doubt now that aside from Adler being unreliable and too much of a risk, he also wouldn't jive with Axl and that's probably another aspect to it. I think Axl/Slash/Duff are all on the same page and know what they're doing, what the plan is, possible tentative plans, and seem to have figured out what they need from each other to make all this work. Adler doesn't have that tact. Like, I could see Slash/Duff wanting to do new music but realizing they have to gently coax Axl into it, convincing him he can still do it. Whereas Alder would be hounding him to make a new record and going on the radio to tell everyone he wants to make a new record but Axl won't do it. 

Exactly. Forget him being unreliable or a risk - that's really a secondary issue. They plain don't like him or feel he's good enough to be in that band - that's the real reason he's not part of NITL aside from a few one-offs to stop him from blasting them in the press. Adler's lack of tact and blunt 3-year old personality is the primary reason he's no longer in GnR. More importantly, I think Axl sees Steven and Izzy as relics of the past - two guys who do not have the playing ability to be in GnR anymore. Axl has outgrown them professionally. And I think as you said, Duff/Slash are on the same page. 

I'm hard on Steven here, but I think as far as NITL goes, he handled himself in a classy way for the most part despite the band treating him poorly. Axl was a douche to him but as he's said before, he felt Steven betrayed him after their 2006 chat so his behavior is somewhat understandable. The people who look the worst in this whole situation are Duff and Slash for making promises to Steven re: NITL that they had no intention of keeping. I think time is slowly proving Axl right with regards to what he said previously about Duff and Slash. 

Edited September 14, 2017 by RONIN

[blackieloveless]

 

[life_247]

Thing is I think Axls been pretty loyal to people he picks to be in GnR - theres been a few gripes about money over the years but I don't remember him throwing anyone out on their ear. If anything over the years Axls always tried to pick people he likes to play with - first their was Dizzy who he got into the band, then despite all protests from everyone else Tobais. He also appeared pretty close with a lot of the New Guns guys over the years. Less so with Bumble but I think Bumble was a real last minute hire and always called bullshit on the management of the band.

Even Axl with the management seems to have people he likes surrounding him rather than full scale professionals these days.

This has often been to the detriment of the performances - tobais (by his own admission it would seem) was no live guitar player and erm Ashba certainly failed to win too many fans but seemed to get on very well with Axl.

Slash on the other hand (possibly after getting his hands burnt with the second snakepit) seems to pick real pros and enjoys playing with them even outside of his normal genre. His solo band has some serious talent in it and that self titled album was pure A-list throughout (and Fergie from the Black Eyed Peas for some reason).

So if Axl and Steven personally were a bit shakey and Slash thought he couldn't perform at the highest level his days were numbered. I honestly think they were worried about the shape he was in and this is going to be the biggest thing in their musical careers over the last 20 years - every moment is captured by thousands of cameras in every arena. If Slash and Duff agreed to do this you better bet they wern't going to 1/2 arse it - get axl in vocal shape, great band behind them (be that original guys or otherwise), big long sets and nailing it every night.

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

16 hours ago, RONIN said:

My suspicion is that he wasn't on great terms with those two - allegedly, Adler was being ignored by everyone during the last few months prior to getting fired. I think the familial bonds were broken in '89 with Axl and Izzy off doing their own thing and Duff/Slash partying on their own. Steven was always the odd man out in the group. Sluff probably resented him because he didn't have his shit together and was delaying the recording sessions that were already behind schedule due to Axl. The relationship was strained further because of his annoying personality. Then you add the fact that he wasn't adapting to the UYI material properly and the band wasn't digging the drum parts he was writing for the new songs - this is probably the real deciding factor in his dismissal imho. There is no way he would have made it through Illusions even if he wasn't a drug addict. He was destined to get ejected because he could not play Axl's new material. And even that could possibly have been overcome if he was still liked by the actual decision makers in the band (Axl, Slash, and Duff). Duff isn't the most skilled bass player around but Axl wanted him around even in the CD era - being well liked goes a long way in overcoming other flaws.

The irony here is, most feel that had he played on Illusions, he would have elevated those albums. I know Sorum is popular on this forum but his work on Illusions is not well regarded critically. Steven's drumming has stood the test of time from a critical consensus. But again, it only further proves that the band didn't really care about Steven's playing ability. That's just the official story. They didn't like working with Adler and this is ultimately what got him fired.

See, I actually take Axl at his word here. I think he probably did fight harder to keep him in over the others. He has mentioned before that he tried to protect Adler from Erin Everly's family members after the incident. Nobody knows what exactly happened since it's all hearsay. Depends on whose version you find more plausible. Steven is a well intentioned albeit moronic sort who probably could have done something like that to Erin but Erin Everly also has credibility issues. I lean more towards Steven's version of events. I think he was an easy scapegoat for Erin to blame. I suspect Axl doubts Erin's version of events since he tried to bury the hatchet with Adler back in '06 by inviting him to have a drink privately with him. That may have been facilitated by his chat earlier with Tom Zutaut about Zoot's run-in with Erin (as Blackstar pointed out earlier).

 I think Adler's sacking is more of a Duff/Slash decision and as I recall, early on, his anger was more directed towards those two in the press and how he felt betrayed by them. He rarely brings up Izzy which makes me think Iz wasn't really involved in his sacking. I mean if Adler was that much of a mess, and he's family and a founding member of the band, why not just ask him to take a break/clean up and join them on the tour later or let him record 1 or 2 songs for UYI if he's up for it and sit out the rest. Keep the guy in the band but just hire a session drummer to help. With the way these guys were pissing money away, it would have been nothing to hire a studio drummer to assist. But they straight up kicked him out and made him forfeit his stake in the band. That to me says that the others didn't want to work with Steven anymore. And history has proven this theory correct. Was he asked to join Velvet Revolver, Ju Ju Hounds, or Snakepit? Nope. Even Izzy sidestepped working with Adler. That to me speaks volumes.

Exactly. Forget him being unreliable or a risk - that's really a secondary issue. They plain don't like him or feel he's good enough to be in that band - that's the real reason he's not part of NITL aside from a few one-offs to stop him from blasting them in the press. Adler's lack of tact and blunt 3-year old personality is the primary reason he's no longer in GnR. More importantly, I think Axl sees Steven and Izzy as relics of the past - two guys who do not have the playing ability to be in GnR anymore. Axl has outgrown them professionally. And I think as you said, Duff/Slash are on the same page. 

I'm hard on Steven here, but I think as far as NITL goes, he handled himself in a classy way for the most part despite the band treating him poorly. Axl was a douche to him but as he's said before, he felt Steven betrayed him after their 2006 chat so his behavior is somewhat understandable. The people who look the worst in this whole situation are Duff and Slash for making promises to Steven re: NITL that they had no intention of keeping. I think time is slowly proving Axl right with regards to what he said previously about Duff and Slash. 

Great post.  As far as speculation goes, this is the best answer so far to the question, what happened to Steven Adler?  

And the bolded part is applicable to quite a few other GNR issues/questions/mysteries, too.  I'm beginning to get a clearer idea (or I think I am) of why they didn't make a big fanfare of the AFD anniversary, especially in light of Duff's recent comments suggesting he thinks they did celebrate it merely by playing Apollo gig past midnight.  

Wild guess: I don't think Axl intends for GNR to be a legacy band.  Long term?  I think he intends for them to be a working, productive band and this line up is the new 'permanent' Guns N' Roses.

[Stoymatic]

On 8/26/2017 at 2:23 PM, Pishy said:

 

For Axl it's not truly about the money but insecurity , power and the need for constant attention and admiration from those he specifically wants it from. Slash is extremely greedy, has jealousy issues with Izzy and always wanted to isolate Axl because he wanted to be in GnR with him, but he wanted all the power split between himself and Axl. Slash and Axl conspired to take over, then turned on one another.

 

how did slash and axl conspire to take over the whole band? and then turn on one another? maybe i am misinformed....do you have a link or something i can read to get caught up?

thanks!

[annabanana]

5 hours ago, life_247 said:

Thing is I think Axls been pretty loyal to people he picks to be in GnR - theres been a few gripes about money over the years but I don't remember him throwing anyone out on their ear. If anything over the years Axls always tried to pick people he likes to play with - first their was Dizzy who he got into the band, then despite all protests from everyone else Tobais. He also appeared pretty close with a lot of the New Guns guys over the years. Less so with Bumble but I think Bumble was a real last minute hire and always called bullshit on the management of the band.

I don't think it's about loyalty but having members who are indebted to him. They won't be there if it weren't for him so they would go along with his decisions wether they agree with it or not. Those are kinda like guaranteed votes for his decisions, that and they won't go against him 

[RONIN]

9 hours ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

 I'm beginning to get a clearer idea (or I think I am) of why they didn't make a big fanfare of the AFD anniversary, especially in light of Duff's recent comments suggesting he thinks they did celebrate it merely by playing Apollo gig past midnight.  

If you heard Chis Jericho's interview with him recently, Duff sort of downplays Izzy's importance in a very subtle way. It's important in so far as it's a shift from how he used to speak of Izzy in the past. In his own book he talks about how Izzy was vital to the sound of the band and almost underrated with what he did for the band. Slash has also covered similar territory in his past interviews. The fact that they are now doing an about face suggests to me that the "partnership" is in full swing. Money is flowing into their coffers and Duff, being a savvy finance guy, is adjusting his PR tactics accordingly. The more they legitimize Steven and Izzy's role in GnR, the more it takes away from the future of the current band. Downplaying those two is a strategic necessity now to shift the narrative towards the future rather than the past where Izzy and Steven now belong. 

They probably see it as Modano does - "Hey, we paid Steven a lump sum settlement with the lawsuit. We paid Izzy a settlement amount + a cut of band profits until 1997. These guys have gotten their share - they are not entitled to anything further. The brand is now owned by us and all profits are rightfully ours. They forfeited their stake in the band forever. Besides, Izzy and Steven are semi-retired musicians who haven't been relevant since the early 90's. There is no advantage to getting them back. They have nothing further to offer. With the reunion near the end, let's look to the future. " 

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Wild guess: I don't think Axl intends for GNR to be a legacy band.  Long term?  I think he intends for them to be a working, productive band and this line up is the new 'permanent' Guns N' Roses.

Hard to say, I mean they're kind of operating like a legacy act right now with the bloated set full of covers and extended jams. I think given how well this tour has gone and with the brand being revitalized back to superstar status (which it hasn't been since the mid 90's) - it's probably getting the wheels turning in their head about continuing further. If you have a lucrative money making machine - why end the ride? This is an extremely valuable brand that the partners are now in control of again after 20 years. For that reason, I think you might be right in that there will be strong monetary temptations to go forward. With Duff's involvement and the trust between him and Axl growing, we may actually see a legitimate management company take over the reins. More licensing deals and merchandising for sure. If they're smart, they'll follow Metallica's blueprint. This band has left untold millions on the table by breaking up and on some level, as wealthy as they are, that has to burn them a little inside. This is their chance to make up for lost time and grab as much cash as they can.

 

Edited September 15, 2017 by RONIN

[Houndfan]

Greetings to all. First time poster and long time reader. Steven posted on his Facebook page that he's thinking of getting Adler's Appetite back together and that he's itching to play. He was asking for comments

on which logo people liked out of several that were pictured.

[RONIN]

6 hours ago, annabanana said:

I don't think it's about loyalty but having members who are indebted to him. They won't be there if it weren't for him so they would go along with his decisions wether they agree with it or not. Those are kinda like guaranteed votes for his decisions, that and they won't go against him 

Bingo.

Axl has/used to have a great eye for talent. He wants to surround himself with the best as we saw with the early Chinese Democracy lineups. The problem is, he also wants to micromanage and control the creative direction of GnR and whatever music his band mates are making which can be stifling for real talent. That just doesn't vibe with any A-list musician like a Slash or a Buckethead who want to have some creative control over their work. It's easier for him to have compliant yes-men who are reliant on him for their paycheck like a Dizzy or a Tobias. Tommy Stinson is a star in his own right, but the guy needed a good paycheck gig - GnR paid well. Before GnR, he wasn't doing very well financially. So he played ball and went with the program. All of Axl's CD guys were session players/guns for hire aside from Finck. Even that band of session players became severely downgraded from the late 90's/early 00's because he could not attract top talent to stay with him given the way the band was run. The talent quickly figured out that they wouldn't really have a say in band affairs and that it wasn't really a band but rather Axl's show, so they bailed. 

As nice as it was to not have guys like Duff, Izzy or Slash questioning him - at some point he must have felt overwhelmed by the difficulties of managing the brand. He probably missed being able to bounce ideas off of a person or get feedback on business decisions. I imagine that's why he looks so happy to have Duff and Slash back in the band - they can help with the heavy lifting. It appears that he's got the "solo" bug out of his system finally.  Even then however, he's stacked the current lineup with his guys like Dizzy, Fortus and Frank to check Duff and Slash. It is what it is. A tiger can't change its stripes.

Edited September 15, 2017 by RONIN

[DieselDaisy]

Duff sold Izzy short upon whose solo albums he had continuously played

Slash sold out his childhood chum Adler as well as Gilby, his own personnel selection-of-choice for rhythm guitar.

They both sold out Matt, their Velvet Revolver bandmate

Far be it from being ''punks'' or ''rock n' rollers'', or possessing this ''nice regular guy act'' which Duff adopts for himself, they are in actual fact two ruthless operators, Slash and Duff, two cold businessmen. Well, the band are a product of the Reagan era I suppose.''Yuppies N' Roses''! McKagan, who affects a 'punk' image, was even seen with an armani bag in Europe this year. Money: the root of all evil.

[RONIN]

4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Duff sold Izzy short upon whose solo albums he had continuously played

Slash sold out his childhood chum Adler as well as Gilby, his own personnel selection-of-choice for rhythm guitar.

They both sold out Matt, their Velvet Revolver bandmate

Far be it from being ''punks'' or ''rock n' rollers'', or possessing this ''nice regular guy act'' which Duff adopts for himself, they are in actual fact two ruthless operators, Slash and Duff, two cold businessmen. Well, the band are a product of the Reagan era I suppose.''Yuppies N' Roses''! McKagan, who affects a 'punk' image, was even seen with an armani bag in Europe this year. Money: the root of all evil.

They just don't have much integrity anymore. Whatever Duff had, he left it behind in the 90's. These guys are now corporate rockers through and through. That doesn't really even have to be a bad thing, but Axl, Duff, and Slash just take it to a ruthless almost "Lord of the Flies" level as @MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle once put it. Nothing surprises me when it comes to Slash although I will say Duff's behavior with Izzy was unexpected. Izzy himself has publicly mentioned several times how close him and Duff have remained over the last 25 years.

I think on some level Duff and Slash realized what a terrible mistake they both made by leaving GnR - what an immense amount of money they walked away from because of their lack of foresight and taking their success for granted. I think if you asked them today if they made the right decision in leaving, they would say No. That may have had a major influence on their immense greed and cutthroat behavior now with the reunion. I suppose business is business and friendship is friendship. The two shouldn't mix. Nothing personal Izzy.

[Bailey96]

I know this Guns N' Roses lineup isn't being sold to hardcore fans or trying to be a full on reunion on but why have they done things that kind of resembled that. Why did Steven come out for a couple shows last year? Why did they bring coma back in the setlist? Isn't this a song they rarely played during the illusion tour due to its length and strain on axl? Now they play it almost every night. These kind of things are why fans continue to ask for more deep cuts and more appearances from both izzy and Steven on this tour. I know duff was a huge mediator between axl and slash but I think they would still be playing stadiums if it was just slash and axl in the group. I mean a decent amount of people going to these shows are casual or hipster fans and probably don't know who Steven, duff, or izzy is. 

Edited September 15, 2017 by Bailey96

[RONIN]

19 minutes ago, Bailey96 said:

I know this Guns N' Roses lineup isn't being sold to hardcore fans or trying to be a full on reunion on but why have they done things that kind of resembled that. Why did Steven come out for a couple shows last year? Why did they bring coma back in the setlist? Isn't this a song they rarely played during the illusion tour due to its length and strain on axl? Now they play it almost every night. These kind of things are why fans continue to ask for more deep cuts and more appearances from both izzy and Steven on this tour. I know duff was a huge mediator between axl and slash but I think they would still be playing stadiums if it was just slash and axl in the group. I mean a decent amount of people going to these shows are casual or hipster fans and probably don't know who Steven, duff, or izzy is. 

Because it's more lucrative for them to trade on nostalgia since they don't have new material. Everything they ever did together was with Izzy and their most important work was done with Steven still in the band. As you said, that's why a lot of people continue to feel that this reunion isn't legitimate without Izzy and to a lesser extent, Steven.

As far as Duff goes - he would not be on this tour if he wasn't in the partnership. Axl and Slash would have thrown him under the bus along with the others. The real decision makers are still Axl and Slash. Duff has some value given his experience with running a wealth management company. He can advise the band on their finances and help maximize their profits. Basically, Duff is the money/PR guy. Axl is the creative force of GnR and Slash is the face/icon of the band. Each one has a clear and defined role now unlike before.

Edited September 15, 2017 by RONIN

[DieselDaisy]

It is Duff I'm most surprised in. Slash has always been a savvy businessman, and chasing money has led him into some ''interesting'' career detours, computer games, action figures and questionable guest appearances. Axl is a little shit and probably about as litigious a person as one can fathom, his life basically consisting of a series of lawsuits and counter-suits. Duff however?

I thought Duff would be making Stradlin's case, and basically saying ''it would be a load of old bollocks'', which it is, ''without Jeff's presence''. Zeppelin conceded that they were ''not Zeppelin'' without Bonham and promptly folded; the money no doubt diminished but this was their decision. It is possible to retain some semblance of integrity in this cut and thrust industry.

[Sosso]

18 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Because it's more lucrative for them to trade on nostalgia since they don't have new material. Everything they ever did together was with Izzy and their most important work was done with Steven still in the band. As you said, that's why a lot of people continue to feel that this reunion isn't legitimate without Izzy and to a lesser extent, Steven.

As far as Duff goes - he would not be on this tour if he wasn't in the partnership. Axl and Slash would have thrown him under the bus along with the others. The real decision makers are still Axl and Slash. Duff has some value given his experience with running a wealth management company. He can advise the band on their finances and help maximize their profits. Basically, Duff is the money/PR guy. Axl is the creative force of GnR and Slash is the face/icon of the band. Each one has a clear and defined role now unlike before.

Well, they have new material. They just refuse to release it

[Bailey96]

I would bet that all 5 of these guys have not been in a room together since 1990.

[BorderlineCrazy]

Don't know if this was already posted but some great quality videos of the show Steven played last year in Argentina were uploaded to YouTube recently, including full You Could Be Mine.

He needs to improve YCBM's intro. Other than that, he beats the shit out of any drummer who's ever played any of these songs, Matt Sorum included.

 

[RONIN]

14 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

It is Duff I'm most surprised in. Slash has always been a savvy businessman, and chasing money has led him into some ''interesting'' career detours, computer games, action figures and questionable guest appearances. Axl is a little shit and probably about as litigious a person as one can fathom, his life basically consisting of a series of lawsuits and counter-suits. Duff however?

I was reading about his wealth management company Meridian Rock in some interview and Duff mentions how shocked he was in the mid 90's when he found out that they hadn't made any money on the Illusions tour even after playing to 7 million people. That directly led to his degree in finance and his decision to start a management company for rockstars. This guy is all about the money now. He would never have left the band had he gotten that degree earlier. 

As for Axl - as savvy as he is about money and whoring the brand - the guy cost himself millions by losing Slash. He would be richer than Dave Grohl today had he simply hung onto Slash. 

Quote

I thought Duff would be making Stradlin's case, and basically saying ''it would be a load of old bollocks'', which it is, ''without Jeff's presence''. Zeppelin conceded that they were ''not Zeppelin'' without Bonham and promptly folded; the money no doubt diminished but this was their decision. It is possible to retain some semblance of integrity in this cut and thrust industry.

Agreed. Even if they wanted to be corporate rockers, it could still have been done in a way that still had integrity. Especially given that they've PUBLICLY talked about how important Stradlin' was to the band for the last 25 years. They look like such greedy hypocrites now by moving forward without him. 

[Bailey96]

1 minute ago, Gibbo said:

https://postimg.org/image/vdu5pw16d/

It's funny he wants to do this again considering he said in that Eddie trunk interview he only wanted to play with well established musicians or bands. I am wondering who he is gonna get for adlers appetite if he wants to reform it. Izzy available? 

[RONIN]

@BorderlineCrazy Do we know how much of Illusions drumming was written by Steven? I still have no clarity on that. 

From what I've read, Sorum had no time to get creative since the band was under such time constraints to get the recording done. It would have made sense to just use what Steven had already written and just adapt it to his style.

Those videos you put up have some really groovy drumming from Steven. I don't have issues with the YCBM intro either. His drumming doesn't have the speed of Sorum, Freese, or Brain. That might be the only potential drawback in a comparison to the other GnR drummers. But he sounds so much groovier and the songs swing more. Great energy as always.

Edited September 15, 2017 by RONIN

[Bailey96]

10 minutes ago, BorderlineCrazy said:

Don't know if this was already posted but some great quality videos of the show Steven played last year in Argentina were uploaded to YouTube recently, including full You Could Be Mine.

He needs to improve YCBM's intro. Other than that, he beats the shit out of any drummer who's ever played any of these songs, Matt Sorum included.

 

A lot of the illusion songs where written or played during the early gnr days such as perfect crime, don't cry, back off bitch, you could be mine, November rain, etc. I think Steven is very capable of playing this material