What happened to Steven Adler?

[bungle]

2 hours ago, RONIN said:

This is the only answer that makes sense: Live Nation twisted the arm of Axl and Slash to bring in Steven and Izzy. They made a half-hearted gesture and it ended up not working out. LN was satisfied that they reached out to those two and Axl/Slash were pleased that it all fell through - cheaper and easier for them to keep Fortus and Frank on the payroll. And Axl has mentioned this before - that he would only be interested in reuniting with Slash and Duff if a reunion ever came to pass. 

 

That's so true !

[Chunder Monkey]

I doubt it would be Live Nation.

Sure, they'd want the legitimacy of as much of a full GNR reunion as possible, however not as much as they'd want the consistency of a professional GNR that isn't likely to implode.

We love Izzy and Steven, but if you had to place bets on two guys who might not make out the full tour there's your candidates. 

Steven has been sober for a while, but his history looms over his involvement. Izzy is known for going walkabout on most projects. 

So looking at it from LN's POV: The general public only really wanted Axl and Slash together. Axl despite his historical antics has displayed much better consistency for the past few tours in terms of start times etc. Slash and Duff will not miss a show unless they have a health incident. I can't see the promoters hassling the band to replace the session players with 2 people that only hardcores really care about and who are likely to have to bail mid way through.

 

 

 

[Blackstar]

26 minutes ago, RONIN said:

Respectfully disagree. I think selling a reunion of a legendary band would be more lucrative when you can bring all of the original members onboard instead of 3/5. 

As far as salary - they probably offered 3 million and told the band to carve it up as they saw fit. Axl and Slash are not splitting the loot with Steven and Izzy. Plain and simple. 

You really think Axl Rose would want to include Steven Adler in a reunion tour (with millions of dollars on the line) as a fulltime participant - this is essentially what Steven, Duff, and Axl have said. Prior to his back surgery, Steven was going to be handling the majority of drum duties. It's hard to fathom a situation where Axl would be willingly going along with this unless it was a live nation stipulation. 

Probably the initial intention was for Steven to play on more than 1-2 songs, but I doubt that meant the majority of the setlist, like he said. Moreover, that arrangement was most likely made at an early stage (as in Izzy's case), when the tour hadn't been planned yet, so it was basically about the April 2016 shows.

According to @Eddie Money, Axl was okay with Steven's inclusion and left it on Sluff to decide which songs he would play on, but he made clear from the start that Frank would be the main drummer. If that's what went on, maybe Slash and Duff had Steven rehearse all the AFD material plus a couple UYI ones in order to pick the songs he would play on, and that led him to believe he was going to play on all.

[MaskingApathy]

23 hours ago, RONIN said:

I wish Steven would have some self respect like Izzy. Dude - you're a world class drummer on one of the best albums in history. The Illusion albums suffered without your involvement - to this day fans and critics criticize that album's drumming. Just go out there and do your thing like Izzy, you've got plenty of cash to retire so there's no point in being so servile to Axl and company. Those guys treated you like shit and don't deserve you. You don't need them to be happy or successful. 

 

23 hours ago, Sosso said:

His “I would do the reunion for a nickel and a dime“ attitude was probably responsible for this situation as well. That dude sold himself under value and that was one one of the biggest mistakes he could've made.

Completely agree.

23 hours ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

 

Don't get me wrong, I think Steven ought to have a place in his own band for a 'reunion' tour and I don't for one second believe that Axl and co. would have welcomed Steven with open arms, but there are things that don't add up in this story.  There's more to it than any one of them is letting on.

That last sentence is it. None of us know the true story and the ones who do aren't talking.

 

20 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Probably the initial intention was for Steven to play on more than 1-2 songs, but I doubt that meant the majority of the setlist, like he said. Moreover, that arrangement was most likely made at an early stage (as in Izzy's case), when the tour hadn't been planned yet, so it was basically about the April 2016 shows.

According to @Eddie Money, Axl was okay with Steven's inclusion and left it on Sluff to decide which songs he would play on, but he made clear from the start that Frank would be the main drummer. If that's what went on, maybe Slash and Duff had Steven rehearse all the AFD material plus a couple UYI ones in order to pick the songs he would play on, and that led him to believe he was going to play on all.

 

[MaskingApathy]

Did any of you see Steven's performance at the Whisky earlier this week? It looked like he was having fun and I'm happy for him but it also seemed to me like he was trying to recreate an old 80s GnR gig. He even had dancers on stage. Honestly the whole thing makes him seem so dated.

[scooby845]

21 hours ago, RONIN said:

As far as salary - they probably offered 3 million and told the band to carve it up as they saw fit. Axl and Slash are not splitting the loot with Steven and Izzy. Plain and simple. 

You really think Axl Rose would want to include Steven Adler in a reunion tour (with millions of dollars on the line) as a fulltime participant - this is essentially what Steven, Duff, and Axl have said. Prior to his back surgery, Steven was going to be handling the majority of drum duties. It's hard to fathom a situation where Axl would be willingly going along with this unless it was a live nation stipulation. 

I agree with you on that account - on selling it as a 'reunion'. But...

...why would LIVE NATION do Guns  N' Roses things the Guns N' Roses way? Why couldn't they have just said - if you don't bring Izzy and Steven on board (not only limited capacity - April shows or guest appearances) we won't support the reunion financially. Why?

In that regard - Axl and Slash probably pretended to have that intention and then LIED that Steven was injured? Let alone Izzy... 

And then LIVE NATION had to accept the terms - better 3/5 than nothing?

[Natty]

14 minutes ago, MaskingApathy said:

Did any of you see Steven's performance at the Whisky earlier this week? It looked like he was having fun and I'm happy for him but it also seemed to me like he was trying to recreate an old 80s GnR gig. He even had dancers on stage. Honestly the whole thing makes him seem so dated.

better dated than unnecessary musicians gnr is using like melissa or when nugnr used to gave 3 guitarists..

I would love to see steven but I think he s never been to austria solo and maybe never will but at this point I would even travel to neighbourhood countries to see him because we don t know how long he will play or live. so many rock stars died or comitted suicide. I want to have an opportunity to see him. when I was a teenager and went to my first gnr concert matt was already the drummer 

[scooby845]

20 hours ago, Blackstar said:

According to @Eddie Money, Axl was okay with Steven's inclusion and left it on Sluff to decide which songs he would play on, but he made clear from the start that Frank would be the main drummer. If that's what went on, maybe Slash and Duff had Steven rehearse all the AFD material plus a couple UYI ones in order to pick the songs he would play on, and that led him to believe he was going to play on all.

What does it mean to be a main drummer? This doesn't add up... 

Main in terms of salary (Frank is a hired hand after all - not a member; all of them are actually, except Axl) or main in terms of who gets to play the majority of songs? 

So my question is next..

..If Steven got to play AFD, LIES and Civil War (Around 20 songs) which is like 75% of the setlist would he be paid more than Frank? How can Frank be main drummer when he would play 25% of songs in that scenario...

So main - money or % of involvement?

Where is the logic in that approach?

By that logic - Steven would be payed less for playing more... 

 

[RONIN]

20 hours ago, Chunder Monkey said:

I doubt it would be Live Nation.

Sure, they'd want the legitimacy of as much of a full GNR reunion as possible, however not as much as they'd want the consistency of a professional GNR that isn't likely to implode.

We love Izzy and Steven, but if you had to place bets on two guys who might not make out the full tour there's your candidates. 

Steven has been sober for a while, but his history looms over his involvement. Izzy is known for going walkabout on most projects. 

So looking at it from LN's POV: The general public only really wanted Axl and Slash together. Axl despite his historical antics has displayed much better consistency for the past few tours in terms of start times etc. Slash and Duff will not miss a show unless they have a health incident. I can't see the promoters hassling the band to replace the session players with 2 people that only hardcores really care about and who are likely to have to bail mid way through.

 

 

 

There were allegedly quite a few European festival promoters that wouldn't book GnR this year because of Axl's reputation. 

 

16 minutes ago, scooby845 said:

I agree with you on that account - on selling it as a 'reunion'. But...

...why would LIVE NATION do Guns  N' Roses things the Guns N' Roses way? Why couldn't they have just said - if you don't bring Izzy and Steven on board (not only limited capacity - April shows or guest appearances) we won't support the reunion financially. Why?

In that regard - Axl and Slash probably pretended to have that intention and then LIED that Steven was injured? Let alone Izzy... 

And then LIVE NATION had to accept the terms - better 3/5 than nothing?

Bingo. That's essentially what I suspect may have happened. I think the plan was to involve all 5 and LN wanted more involvement from Izzy and Steven, while Axl/Slash wanted less - but went along with the program for the sake of a larger financial return for the reunion. This reunion is about money at the end of the day.

As far as why Live Nation wouldn't throw down the gauntlet over Izzy and Steven - why should they? THey want to be in the GnR business - they probably chose their battles. Strict legal penalties if Axl didn't show up on time, walked off, or went over curfew times. And Duff/Slash were on board with that. With Izzy and Steven, I imagine they probably framed it to them like this: "If you involve them, we can all make more money  - it will be easier to sell this as a reunion, even if they are doing guest spots." So Axl and Slash went with the program and threw Izzy and Steven some bones. 

And as Blackstar said, there probably was no intention to even include Steven in the shows on more than a cameo basis - and they even drastically cut that down as soon as they saw an opportunity (his back injury). Either way, Steven was used and he made the right move to not participate further.

Edited October 5, 2017 by RONIN

[Blackstar]

7 minutes ago, scooby845 said:

What does it mean to be a main drummer? This doesn't add up... 

Main in terms of salary (Frank is a hired hand after all - not a member; all of them are actually, except Axl) or main in terms of who gets to play the majority of songs? 

So my question is next..

..If Steven got to play AFD, LIES and Civil War (Around 20 songs) which is like 75% of the setlist would he be paid more than Frank? How can Frank be main drummer when he would play 25% of songs in that scenario...

So main - money or % of involvement?

Where is the logic in that approach?

By that logic - Steven would be payed less for playing more... 

 

Apparently "main drummer" means that he would play most of the set.

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

48 minutes ago, RONIN said:

There were allegedly quite a few European festival promoters that wouldn't book GnR this year because of Axl's reputation. 

 

Bingo. That's essentially what I suspect may have happened. I think the plan was to involve all 5 and LN wanted more involvement from Izzy and Steven, while Axl/Slash wanted less - but went along with the program for the sake of a larger financial return for the reunion. This reunion is about money at the end of the day.

As far as why Live Nation wouldn't throw down the gauntlet over Izzy and Steven - why should they? THey want to be in the GnR business - they probably chose their battles. Strict legal penalties if Axl didn't show up on time, walked off, or went over curfew times. And Duff/Slash were on board with that. With Izzy and Steven, I imagine they probably framed it to them like this: "If you involve them, we can all make more money  - it will be easier to sell this as a reunion, even if they are doing guest spots." So Axl and Slash went with the program and threw Izzy and Steven some bones. 

And as Blackstar said, there probably was no intention to even include Steven in the shows on more than a cameo basis - and they even drastically cut that down as soon as they saw an opportunity (his back injury). Either way, Steven was used and he made the right move to not participate further.

Not participating further isn't a move on Steven's part, I don't think. I get every impression that Steven would jump if Axl said how high.  It's Axl and co. who aren't allowing Steven back in - that's my guess anyway.  Seems to me that GNR is Steven's weakness.  By contrast, Izzy seems content? willing? able to walk away if he doesn't agree with the terms being offered (although his 'loot' tweet suggested a tone of anger/annoyance so maybe he's not that content after all).  

I feel like the more we know about those guys and their dealings, the harder it is to figure them out. lol  Except for Steven, they all seem contradictory, one way or another.

Edited October 5, 2017 by MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle

[scooby845]

41 minutes ago, RONIN said:

As far as why Live Nation wouldn't throw down the gauntlet over Izzy and Steven - why should they? THey want to be in the GnR business - they probably chose their battles. Strict legal penalties if Axl didn't show up on time, walked off, or went over curfew times. And Duff/Slash were on board with that. With Izzy and Steven, I imagine they probably framed it to them like this: "If you involve them, we can all make more money  - it will be easier to sell this as a reunion, even if they are doing guest spots." So Axl and Slash went with the program and threw Izzy and Steven some bones. 

That's true. But...

If LN wanted to involve Steven in full, why they did not reach out to him to see if that is the truth - that he was injured and could NOT play?

Then we saw it was true, but only partially. Then I wonder - If there was more money on the line due to Steven's involvement - don't you think LN could have delayed reunion tour a little bit?

What I mean by that? April shows did not gross anything abnormally high to LN... And as we saw Steven was 100% recovered by June - which means he could have played the entire tour flawlessly..

So?

54 minutes ago, RONIN said:

I think the plan was to involve all 5 and LN wanted more involvement from Izzy and Steven, while Axl/Slash wanted less - but went along with the program for the sake of a larger financial return for the reunion. This reunion is about money at the end of the day.

Don't you think the salary of 3 mil per show was formed by Live Nation based on their insight in how it should be split among members (Axl, Slash, Duff...others) rather than vice versa?

 

[RONIN]

36 minutes ago, scooby845 said:

That's true. But...

If LN wanted to involve Steven in full, why they did not reach out to him to see if that is the truth - that he was injured and could NOT play?

Then we saw it was true, but only partially. Then I wonder - If there was more money on the line due to Steven's involvement - don't you think LN could have delayed reunion tour a little bit?

What I mean by that? April shows did not gross anything abnormally high to LN... And as we saw Steven was 100% recovered by June - which means he could have played the entire tour flawlessly..

So?

I imagine Axl and Slash used the back injury as an excuse to say "See - we told you he wasn't reliable. He threw out his back within a day or two of rehearsals. How can we depend on him for a multi-million dollar world tour. We'll give him a few guest spots to make the fans happy but that's it." Framed that way - obviously LN would agree if only to ensure that the tour goes off without a hitch. In the end, LN want Axl and Slash out there touring. They got their wish and hundreds of millions were made. They could have made more with Izzy and Steven - and they tried to make that happen - but ultimately, LN's primary objective was to get Axl and Slash to tour together. Mission accomplished.

Quote

Don't you think the salary of 3 mil per show was formed by Live Nation based on their insight in how it should be split among members (Axl, Slash, Duff...others) rather than vice versa?

I suspect LN assesses the brand value of GnR and the market interest for the band from promoters and formulate a payout based on that. How the band divides it up isn't their business - that's GnR's business. This explains why the band is notoriously cheap from the lack of guest stars on tour (Sebastian fucking Bach?), not willing to pay Izzy's fees, potentially offering Matt and Gilby a pathetic sum to guest -they're maximizing the tour profits. Can't say I blame them - they lost a fortune on the Illusions tour and 25 years of being apart.

 

Edited October 5, 2017 by RONIN

[RONIN]

40 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

Not participating further isn't a move on Steven's part, I don't think. I get every impression that Steven would jump if Axl said how high.  It's Axl and co. who aren't allowing Steven back in - that's my guess anyway.  Seems to me that GNR is Steven's weakness.  By contrast, Izzy seems content? willing? able to walk away if he doesn't agree with the terms being offered (although his 'loot' tweet suggested a tone of anger/annoyance so maybe he's not that content after all).  

I feel like the more we know about those guys and their dealings, the harder it is to figure them out. lol  Except for Steven, they all seem contradictory, one way or another.

You're probably right - especially with this recent about face from Steven where he wants back in. 

I wonder why he was given a gag order earlier this year - what was he promised by Duff in order to shut him up? 

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

3 minutes ago, RONIN said:

You're probably right - especially with this recent about face from Steven where he wants back in. 

I wonder why he was given a gag order earlier this year - what was he promised by Duff in order to shut him up? 

My initial thought was that he was promised he could play again, the cruel bastards.  Well, the manner in which Duff told him he wasn't playing again was pretty darn mean, so I wouldn't put it past them dangling a false carrot.  I dunno, maybe Steven will still play some more guest spots on the last leg since he's behind the drums again?? I certainly hope so.  

I try to rationalise all this (Steven and Izzy's absence) and I try to see it from Axl's point of view a heck of a lot (as you know - ha!) but there has to come a point where those guys set aside their differences to play together one last time for the sake of legacy, memories, GNR history...heck, music history.  

In light of losing so many of our music icons, it's a miracle all five are still alive and if they don't take advantage of this opportunity while they can, then they're a bunch of fools.  Shit like money and complicated backstories shouldn't matter for one or two shows, or however many they can muster the care factor to play together.  The only thing that should matter to them - all of them - is honouring what they achieved together once, what they did for music and the fans.  Ya know, we're not asking them to solve the world's problems here, just play together guys!  I honestly cannot fathom what is so difficult about that?

[Archtop]

wasn't  there a Facebook post from Frank hinting he was asked to join the rehearsals for something just befor the GnR regrouping? If I remember correctly it was rather ambiguous but there was quite a bit of speculation that it was for his role in something GnR related.  It always lead me to believe that he wasn't asked to be a part of the line up until quite late in the game, so perhaps the original intention was to have Steven play and they bailed on him at the last minute with the whole back injury thing? 

My memory is sketchy and I don't do face book so can't look it up, anyone else remember this?

 

[double talkin jive mfkr]

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/sep/08/axl-rose-izzy-stradlin-guns-n-roses-not-in-this-lifetime-tour

 

here it says izzy's quote about the loot being split equally, it is my belief therefore gnr as in axl was highly encouraged by Live Nation etc to reunite the original 5 in whatever capacity possible but they balked back through adler's back injury then them axl duff slash probably just outright being pissed that he actually wanted and deserved to have an equal cut and rejected his inclusion 

[marlingrl03]

Since this is a Steven thread, thought I would post this pic here. Credits: Margott Hinostroza

Edited October 6, 2017 by marlingrl03

[Sosso]

4 hours ago, Archtop said:

wasn't  there a Facebook post from Frank hinting he was asked to join the rehearsals for something just befor the GnR regrouping? If I remember correctly it was rather ambiguous but there was quite a bit of speculation that it was for his role in something GnR related.  It always lead me to believe that he wasn't asked to be a part of the line up until quite late in the game, so perhaps the original intention was to have Steven play and they bailed on him at the last minute with the whole back injury thing? 

My memory is sketchy and I don't do face book so can't look it up, anyone else remember this?

 

It was supposed to be a show with two drummers from the very beginning.  Steven himself said that in an interview

Edited October 6, 2017 by Sosso

[vloors]

Waiting for the full ultimate jam hd concert to be uploaded on zinna but for now. This is the October 3rd concert a few days ago at the whiskey.

 

Edited October 6, 2017 by vloors

[vloors]

Full show now available

 

 

[slaxl stradler]

look at this from a business perspective..

keeping gnr the way it is, is VERY profitable for these guys.. it'll dry up, and guess what happens then.

bring in izzy and adler.. and "split the loot" will surely happen..

the original guys would have already have made their fucktonne of money by then.. i guarantee that's how it'll play out, just like apple tease you with a iphone8 then eventually a iphonex..

they will milk this and when the times right they will get the original band back up on stage and it'll sellout worldwide again, and probably even more than this "not in this lifetime tour"

i can see it playing out just like that.

 

[riot]

4 hours ago, vloors said:

Full show now available

 

 

So now we know steven doent know/ cannot play you could be mine ´s intro

Edited October 7, 2017 by riot

[MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle]

2 hours ago, riot said:

So now we know steven doent know/ cannot play you could be mine ´s intro

What do you make of his drumming overall?  I didn't think much of his band, but I don't know enough about drumming to comment on Steven's performance.  

[MaskingApathy]

1 hour ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

What do you make of his drumming overall?  I didn't think much of his band, but I don't know enough about drumming to comment on Steven's performance.  

The drumming was ok, but he should've chosen a better singer and lead guitarist aka ones who could actually do the songs justice.

Edited October 7, 2017 by MaskingApathy