RITZ 1991 FOOTAGE LIKE YOU NEVER "HEARD" BEFORE = "Dust n Bones" audience video perfectly synced with Live Era audio track

[ludurigan]

1 hour ago, TheSeeker said:

DVD's are shit and only hold 480p video - we need Blu Ray or an HD stream

hahahaha i guess i would be very fucking happy with a 480-whatever DVD!

[thunderram]

For all those people that believe the NITL tour is strictly a "cash grab", I gotta ask why haven't they ever released this vault material then? This would be the easiest pile of $$ they could ever make without having to do anything at all, except provide consent to digitize and process all the content. Even having to share the proceeds with former band members, Geffen, and business partners, its free $$ for something they already did eons ago.

Edited September 11, 2017 by thunderram

[double talkin jive mfkr]

This show along with wembley is what i want even this recording from Perfect Crime Axl is nailing every verse his 91 warm up voice is probably the best it's ever been as far as range with rasp

if they could release any of these shows as pro shot with mastersound that my friend is the holy grail 

if they did an imax of the 91 early warm up shows and there last leg on 93 that would be the fucking best i'd pay whatever to hear some of those obscure illusion tunes

 

 

Edited September 11, 2017 by double talkin jive mfkr

[RONIN]

1 minute ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

This show along with wembley is what i want even this recording from Perfect Crime Axl is nailing every verse his 91 warm up voice is probably the best it's ever been as far as range with rasp

if they could release any of these shows as pro shot with mastersound that my friend is the holy grail 

 

 

Agreed. The '91 warm up shows are now the stuff of legend.

As far as the UYI era goes, holy grail items:

1. '91 warm up shows

2. UYI Tour Documentary

3. UYI Naked Mixes w/ Adler sessions and Izzy turned up in the mix.

Bonus: The Spaghetti Incident remixed w/ Izzy

[double talkin jive mfkr]

i saw snippets of what marc canter had actually on the BBC documentary and they were fucking actually better as well for holy grail with adler on back off bitch killing it that tune is 10x better with him 

[RONIN]

1 hour ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

i saw snippets of what marc canter had actually on the BBC documentary and they were fucking actually better as well for holy grail with adler on back off bitch killing it that tune is 10x better with him 

Yeah, it's crazy how different Adler and Sorum make those songs sound. I never appreciated Steven Adler's place in the band until recently. His drumming just clicked with me finally after I heard some of the UYI demos. There's a real rock n' roll swing to those songs and punk edge which are missing with Matt taking over. Matt makes the songs sound bigger but also more... lumbering. The energy of the songs go down with Sorum, even if he can play circles around Adler.

I think on some level, even Axl probably saw it that way with the drummers he hired for Chinese Democracy. Freese was a punk drummer like Adler and Brain has great swing.

Edited September 11, 2017 by RONIN

[colonizedmind]

On 07/09/2017 at 0:04 PM, youngswedishvinyl said:

Not only were the Ritz show recorded but all of the '91 warm up shows (the 1991-05-09 - Warfield Theatre, San Francisco, CA gig. The  1991-05-11 - Pantages Theatre, Los Angeles, CA gig and the 1991-05-16 - The Ritz, New York, NY gig) are rumored to be recorded on film.

What that means is that these film recordings, unlike most other recordings from the UYI era (if not all except for the Freddie Mercury Tribute) that were recorded on VHS, can be digitized in true 1080p HD. The difference between a VHS recording and a film recording is massive and concerts recorded on film looks amazing.

Here's Paradise City recorded on film from the Freddie Mercury Tribute (sadly compromised by YouTube but you get the idea):

And here's Paradise City recorded on VHS from Indiana in '91:

As you can see the details are much clearer and the colors of the film recording looks amazing. I really hope that these recording will se the light of day at some point in the future especially since we don't have any video footage of the San Francisco show (I'd love to see that since the first GN'R performance ever of Dust N' Bones, Bad Obsession and Live and Let Die were played on this gig) and I'd give my left arm for a recording of the LA show (which I would consider as the holy grail of GN'R live recording) since we don't have a single recording (audio or video) of that show. The LA show also happens to have an amazing setlist including the first GN'R performances of Right Next Door To Hell, 14 Years, Yesterdays and You Ain't The First as well as Don't Cry with Shannon Hoon and more importantly the second and last ever performance of Bad Apples! 

Personally I'd love it if GN'R did something like KISS did with their Kissology box sets when the Not In This Lifetime Tour is over. Release a couple of DVD sets with 4-5 live shows of each era that we haven't already seen in pro shot quality. Imagine something like this:

DVD Box 1: (1985-1989)
06.06.85 - Troubador, Hollywood, CA (This would not be professionally recorded but I'm pretty sure that Marc Canter recorded this show on video so if it exists, it would be included) 
09.20.86 - L.A. Street Scene Festival, Los Angeles, CA (Not professionally recorded, Marc Canter recorded this show and the show is great but very short because of the rowdy crowd)
10.23.87 - The Ritz, New York, NY (We know that this exists in pro shot quality but we've only seen 10 minutes of it)
12.10.88 - Budokan, Tokyo, Japan (You're Crazy and Used To Love Her on live era is sourced from this show, hopefully video was professionally recorded as well)
10.13.89 - Park Plaza Hotel, Los Angeles, CA (At least 1 hour and 10 minutes of this show is known to exist)

DVD Box 2: (1991-1993)
05.11.91 - Pantages Theatre, Los Angeles, CA (Rumored to be recorded on film as previously stated)
08.31.91 - Wembley Stadium, London, England (All UYI era shows were recorded, probably the best 1991 show in my opinion as well as Izzy's last GN'R show as a member)
02.20.92 - Toyko Dome, Tokyo, Japan (All UYI era shows were recorded, Locomotive do I need to say anything else?)
04.10.93 - Omaha Civic Auditorium, Omaha, NE (All UYI era shows were recorded, The Garden, Coma and Used To Love Her was played)

DVD Box 3: (2001-2007)
01.01.01 - House Of Blues, Las Vegas, NV (All CD era shows were recorded, first GN'R show since '93 and Rhiad And The Bedouins was played)
12.05.02 - Madison Square Garden, New York, NY (All CD era shows were recorded, last Buckethead show)
05.12.06 - Hammerstein Ballroom, New York, NY (All CD era shows were recorded, There Was A Time.)
07.14.07 - Makuhari Messe, Chiba, Japan (All CD era shows were recorded, first full Don't Cry since 1993)

DVD Box 4: (2009-2014)
12.19.09 - Tokyo Dome, Tokyo, Japan (All CD era shows were recorded, 3 hours and 37 minutes long and all of Chinese Democracy is played except for Rhiad And The Bedouins)
10.14.10 - The O2 Arena, London, England (All CD era shows were recorded, Duff joins for the first time since 1993)
07.22.12 - Son Fusteret, Mallorca, Spain (All CD era shows were recorded, Izzy joins for 8 songs and Whole Lotta Rosie is played)
06.06.14 - The Joint at Hard Rock Hotel, Las Vegas, NV (All CD era shows were recorded, There Was A Time and Prostitute were played)

DVD Box 5: (2016-2017)
04.01.16 - Troubadour, West Hollywood, CA, USA (Recordings are known to exist, first show with Slash since '93)
08.05.16 - NRG Stadium, Houston, TX, USA (It's safe to assume that all NITL shows are recorded, amazing show.)
07.27.17 - The Dome at America's Center, St. Louis, MO (It's safe to assume that all NITL shows are recorded, first St.Louis show since the Riverport Riot)
11.29.17 - The Forum, Los Angeles, CA (It's safe to assume that all NITL shows are recorded, this will hopefully be the last NITL show and thus the setlist probably will be exciting)

If they wan't to stop fans from whining then release something like this and a new album in 2018 and I'm fairly sure that we fans will be very satisfied! 

Can't see the tour ending in November, the last trailer for the recent arena block of touring said "We're just getting started"...
They missed a whole chunk of EURO and only really played London in the UK...
I reckon they'll do another arena tour over seas next year, for sure before this ends....

[colonizedmind]

On 08/09/2017 at 1:53 PM, youngswedishvinyl said:

Oh sorry, I was sure that the Freddie Mercury Tribute show was recorded on film and not taped but I guess I was wrong, my bad! 

I do remember reading something about the warm up shows being recorded on film though, I know that none of the other shows were because of the hassle and expense of bringing film and film cameras on the road. The other shows were as far as I am aware filmed with the in-house cameras in the stadiums and arenas for the in-house screens and then GN'Rs crew recorded that video feed to VHS as the show happened for archiving purposes. That's how some shows tapes (Oklahoma and Chicago '92 for example) were stolen from GN'Rs video crew and later on leaked. 

But back to the warm up shows, I know that it would make sense for them to record these shows on tape as well but if there would be any shows from the UYI Tour captured with film cameras it would be these for the very reason you mentioned. Film cameras are huge and hard to move around on a stage and therefor it makes sense to use them to record a show on a smaller stage where the cameras don't have to be moved.

If it's the case that the film crew just VHS'd the feed, those tapes from early 90s will have degraded over time, unless Axl had them backed up and copied and restored properly...Do we see this as likely especially when it became

an era he really tried to move on from...
Those stolen tapes might be only access we ever get to these shows and perhaps not due to Axl's inability to release...

[Swedish]

4 hours ago, colonizedmind said:

If it's the case that the film crew just VHS'd the feed, those tapes from early 90s will have degraded over time, unless Axl had them backed up and copied and restored properly...Do we see this as likely especially when it became

an era he really tried to move on from...
Those stolen tapes might be only access we ever get to these shows and perhaps not due to Axl's inability to release...

You may be right but then the Ritz 87 tape that was found last year hadn't been seen since the late 80s and that was in watchable quality in my opinion! 

 

I'm starting to wonder if the UYI tapes even exists anymore though, it would seem like such an Axl thing to just throw them away during the late 90s because he was mad at the band that played on them.

[ludurigan]

15 hours ago, thunderram said:

For all those people that believe the NITL tour is strictly a "cash grab", I gotta ask why haven't they ever released this vault material then? This would be the easiest pile of $$ they could ever make without having to do anything at all, except provide consent to digitize and process all the content. Even having to share the proceeds with former band members, Geffen, and business partners, its free $$ for something they already did eons ago.

well there is a pretty simple explanation from that

on the vault you have the best band ever performing at the very height of their powers

untouchable

unsurpassed

to this fucking day

you have stuff like ritz 1988 that is arguably the best rock performance ever recorded on video

you dont wanna people watching any of that before going to see the current tour

 

[ludurigan]

9 hours ago, RONIN said:

Agreed. The '91 warm up shows are now the stuff of legend.

As far as the UYI era goes, holy grail items:

1. '91 warm up shows

2. UYI Tour Documentary

3. UYI Naked Mixes w/ Adler sessions and Izzy turned up in the mix.

Bonus: The Spaghetti Incident remixed w/ Izzy

yes

what about the appetite sessions with early versions of you could be mine and perfect crime?

what about marc canter's first generation video of club dates in 1985 and 1986?

what about the 1988 aerosmith tour?

what about the "other drummmers" that were tried before matt in 1990? I am not sure about these but apparently there were sessions with at least two guys...

what about robert john videos? has he ever recorded full rehearsals? full soundchecks?

and so much more...

===

i have very little interest in the UYI documentary because to the best of my knowledge the shooting started after izzy left so i have zero interest in watching axl, slash, duff and the first group of aliens doing whatever they did back then -- except for stuff like the "jeff beck jam" in paris (which is already partially available on youtube) etc

[annabanana]

15 hours ago, thunderram said:

For all those people that believe the NITL tour is strictly a "cash grab", I gotta ask why haven't they ever released this vault material then? This would be the easiest pile of $$ they could ever make without having to do anything at all, except provide consent to digitize and process all the content. Even having to share the proceeds with former band members, Geffen, and business partners, its free $$ for something they already did eons ago.

Not really because all it takes is for one person to buy a copy and put it online and a huge chunk of potential buyers are gone. The tour is the only way to make real money.

[RONIN]

3 minutes ago, ludurigan said:

yes

what about the appetite sessions with early versions of you could be mine and perfect crime?

what about marc canter's first generation video of club dates in 1985 and 1986?

what about the 1988 aerosmith tour?

what about the "other drummmers" that were tried before matt in 1990? I am not sure about these but apparently there were sessions with at least two guys...

what about robert john videos? has he ever recorded full rehearsals? full soundchecks?

and so much more...

===

Yes please. Don't forget the 1989 Rolling Stones/GnR shows.

I even want the 94'-96 sessions with Izzy and Zakk Wylde. The thing is, Axl is such an OCD control freak he probably recorded EVERYTHING. The possibilities are mind boggling for what must exist in the GnR vault. I'm telling you, it's probably like Prince's vault. The only thing I suspect is that there isn't much finished music in there. Just stacks and stacks of jam sessions.

 

Quote

i have very little interest in the UYI documentary because to the best of my knowledge the shooting started after izzy left so i have zero interest in watching axl, slash, duff and the first group of aliens doing whatever they did back then -- except for stuff like the "jeff beck jam" in paris (which is already partially available on youtube) etc

No.  Say it ain't so . That makes it much less interesting. Illusions are my favorite GnR albums but that era is kinda lame after '91 unfortunately. 

Thought you liked Gilby and Matt by the way. 

[ludurigan]

Just now, RONIN said:

Yes please. Don't forget the 1989 Rolling Stones/GnR shows.

I even want the 94'-96 sessions with Izzy and Zakk Wylde. The thing is, Axl is such an OCD control freak he probably recorded EVERYTHING. The possibilities are mind boggling for what must exist in the GnR vault. I'm telling you, it's probably like Prince's vault. The only thing I suspect is that there isn't much finished music in there. Just stacks and stacks of jam sessions.

 

No.  Say it ain't so . That makes it much less interesting. Illusions are my favorite GnR albums but that era is kinda lame after '91 unfortunately. 

Thought you liked Gilby and Matt by the way. 

i am not sure about that -- i could be wrong! maybe they started shooting while izzy was stilll onboard...

i dont think izzy ever jammed with zakk. for all i know it was slash and zakk and duff and axl and matt -- but yeah, those sessions must be nice to listen even without izzy

i am not sure but i guess i could spend the rest of my life going through every note ever recorded by axl, izzy, slash, duff, and steven -- even if there is no finsihed material there! if i had to make a choice, I actually would rather listen to them jamming on "new" (unfinisehd, abandoned) ideas than listen to them playing the songs that we are familliar with

i kinda like -- or should i say i kinda accept -- matt in 1991. the band was still very good then so that must be the reason. he became very unlistenable in 1992 and then became good again in 1993 (like the rest of the band, actually)

in my opinion gilby doesnt screw the songs (like richard the guitar player does), gilby has some cool solo songs (i dont know the full scope of richard the guitar player work but he apparently does not) and gilby sounds very good on spaghetti, but seriously, on the live gigs 1992-93, gilby cant lick izzy's boots! the only great moment is wild horses but i have a feeling it would sound even better with izzy hahahaha

 

[Chris 55]

On 9/5/2017 at 9:11 PM, ludurigan said:

this is a must watch

RITZ 1991 FOOTAGE LIKE YOU NEVER "HEARD" BEFORE = "Dust n Bones" audience video recording perfectly synced with Live Era audio track

It syncs perfectly for about 2 minutes.

apparently dust n bones from live era is part ritz 1991, part wembley 1991

what a thrill to have good quality audio for this footage

(check the youtube description to learn why the audio changes when axl joins the chorus)

what comes as a bit of a revelation to me (not sure if you guys know/knew this) is that GNR DOES HAVE THE PROFESSIONAL AUDIO RECORDING OF RITZ 1991 ON ITS VAULT!

Wow! That may be old news to you but until just about now I never had the confirmation of that and I thought it was only speculation!

So YES, THEY HAVE IT

and because of that there is a chance that someday, somehow, someone will be smart enough to put A (the amazing cinema quality footage of this show) plus B (this professional audio recording of the show) together and RELEASE IT TO THE FUCKING WORLD!

Ugh. Hate this dropped frame 60fps crap. 

[Blackstar]

 

Quote

I even want the 94'-96 sessions with Izzy and Zakk Wylde. The thing is, Axl is such an OCD control freak he probably recorded EVERYTHING. The possibilities are mind boggling for what must exist in the GnR vault. I'm telling you, it's probably like Prince's vault. The only thing I suspect is that there isn't much finished music in there. Just stacks and stacks of jam sessions.

 

2 hours ago, ludurigan said:

i am not sure about that -- i could be wrong! maybe they started shooting while izzy was stilll onboard...

i dont think izzy ever jammed with zakk. for all i know it was slash and zakk and duff and axl and matt -- but yeah, those sessions must be nice to listen even without izzy

There were three or four periods in 1994-96 when the whole band worked together: 1) March-April 1994 (w. Gilby): Slash riifs/ideas that didn't end on the Snakepit album and probably Axl and Duff kept on working on them while Slash was on tour (also probably on ideas from Slash-Duff jams in the summer of '94) 2) Early 1995: Zakk Wylde sessions for one-two weeks - after that Slash went on tour with Snakepit, 3-4) After Slash returned, late 1995 and/or late summer 1996 (short sessions).

 Izzy came back while Slash was on tour, most likely in spring-summer 1995.  We know for sure that one song from the Izzy sessions is in Axl's vault. I think the rest ended up on Izzy's album 117○.

It's possible that some structured songs (instrumentals) came out of the Zakk Wylde sessions. Marc Canter has talked about heavy rock songs he had heard. I think Zakk took one of them and recorded it for Black Label Society.

 In 1995 Slash had referred on recorded songs (with him on but without vocals), which Axl considered "killer".  Axl and Duff were also probably working on other songs besides Slash's riffs; shortly before he left in 1996, Slash talked about 80 songs (I guess most of them were ideas, not complete songs).

And yes, if we believe what Axl himself said, he recorded all the rehearsals.

Edited September 12, 2017 by Blackstar

[RONIN]

3 hours ago, Blackstar said:

 

 Izzy came back while Slash was on tour, most likely in spring-summer 1995.  We know for sure that one song from the Izzy sessions is in Axl's vault. I think the rest ended up on Izzy's album 117○.

 

I believe it's called "Down by the Ocean". Rumored to have been considered for the first iteration of Chinese Democracy.

[Blackstar]

4 hours ago, RONIN said:

I believe it's called "Down by the Ocean". Rumored to have been considered for the first iteration of Chinese Democracy.

Yeah, this is the title.

[ludurigan]

11 hours ago, RONIN said:

Yes please. Don't forget the 1989 Rolling Stones/GnR shows.

 

here we are talking about GNR vault and gene fucking simmons shows GNR how to give people what they want!

150 songs!

FULL STORY = http://ultimateclassicrock.com/gene-simmons-vault-box-set/?trackback=tsmclip

[colonizedmind]

21 hours ago, youngswedishvinyl said:

You may be right but then the Ritz 87 tape that was found last year hadn't been seen since the late 80s and that was in watchable quality in my opinion! 

 

I'm starting to wonder if the UYI tapes even exists anymore though, it would seem like such an Axl thing to just throw them away during the late 90s because he was mad at the band that played on them.

Unlike Prince who was asked about his vault a lot, Has Axl ever actually been properly asked about what exists or does not? 
If not, we're just going on hear say and educated guests...We shouldn't get our hopes up anyhow, most of it, we'll

never see, even if it exists...
The best bets, is stuff uncirculating like Ritz 87, amongst fans and collectors...There's probably a fair bit of that,

that we don't even know about yet...As they were so careless with stuff in the early days...
Anyway, VHS does degrade, but it usually takes 2-3 decades to totally take hold but where it's stored , temperature,

 etc all play into it...Some could and will be absolutely fine...but if I was a business media manager working for Axl

in the last 20 years, I would of have that shit backed up to digital as a priority, as a means to an income down the line...

We'll see...

[thunderram]

22 hours ago, ludurigan said:

well there is a pretty simple explanation from that

you dont wanna people watching any of that before going to see the current tour

 

 

See, I can't buy that as a valid explanation. Because it could have been released years and years ago well before this current tour was even thought possible. But it wasn't. And that's because not everything is strictly about money. There are lots of other factors in play. Hell, if AXL was so caught up on $$, he could have put out a bunch of new music over the years -- even if not very good. But he didn't. Because it's not only about the $$.

[ludurigan]

3 hours ago, thunderram said:

 

See, I can't buy that as a valid explanation. Because it could have been released years and years ago well before this current tour was even thought possible. But it wasn't. And that's because not everything is strictly about money. There are lots of other factors in play. Hell, if AXL was so caught up on $$, he could have put out a bunch of new music over the years -- even if not very good. But he didn't. Because it's not only about the $$.

same reason is a valid explanation for all the axl solo years. even more so than for this threeunion tour. from all the years he went solo, 1997-2015, axl wanted to be as far away as possible from GNR

again: its not a wise move to release a DVD featuring the best band ever firing all cylinders with the best singer ever singing like no one has ever sung before or since and deliver a cover band on your llive shows AND an unrecognizable singer that chooses to sing with a very annoying clean voice that makes him unrecognizable

so in a sense it is wise to lose money on a live DVD and a live CD sales (which are basically not really much these days anyway) in order to make sure that people who are coming to see your cover band dont get too disappointed

Edited September 13, 2017 by ludurigan

[RONIN]

14 hours ago, ludurigan said:

here we are talking about GNR vault and gene fucking simmons shows GNR how to give people what they want!

150 songs!

FULL STORY = http://ultimateclassicrock.com/gene-simmons-vault-box-set/?trackback=tsmclip

Damn. Must be great being a Kiss fan. 

[money honey]

On 9/11/2017 at 5:23 PM, thunderram said:

For all those people that believe the NITL tour is strictly a "cash grab", I gotta ask why haven't they ever released this vault material then? This would be the easiest pile of $$ they could ever make without having to do anything at all, except provide consent to digitize and process all the content. Even having to share the proceeds with former band members, Geffen, and business partners, its free $$ for something they already did eons ago.

Good point.

[Swedish]

16 hours ago, ludurigan said:

here we are talking about GNR vault and gene fucking simmons shows GNR how to give people what they want!

150 songs!

FULL STORY = http://ultimateclassicrock.com/gene-simmons-vault-box-set/?trackback=tsmclip

That box set costs between $2000 and $50000... And I thought that GN'R sells over priced stuff