Gardening

[cineater]

Yeah I just realized that about Susan.  She's renting from a friend.  The plan was for her to move back here but it's becoming obvious she needs to stay close to her folks.

We are having beautiful weather and I'm back to watering containers.  Been at the gardens the last two evenings cleaning up my beds.  I have 4 women coming over Friday for another driveway chat.  No boys this time. 

[soon]

33 minutes ago, cineater said:

Yeah I just realized that about Susan.  She's renting from a friend.  The plan was for her to move back here but it's becoming obvious she needs to stay close to her folks.

We are having beautiful weather and I'm back to watering containers.  Been at the gardens the last two evenings cleaning up my beds.  I have 4 women coming over Friday for another driveway chat.  No boys this time. 

What did the boys do wrong?  That will be nice! Any refreshments agin this time?

When Ive gone to my garden lately, I literally just walk by it. Sometimes I stand next to it and go through emails, with out even looking at it. 

Im sorry to hear about Susan moving away.  I think staying close to parents was the original plan, then it switched to shed stay close and now it changed back again? That sucks. 

Beaker wants so much attention that he's taken to acting out. He goes to where the chives used to be that I would pick him up and move him away from - even though theres no chives. He just thinks that he'll get a reaction. 

[cineater]

I think we all need to give the cats a little attention.   Wouldn't hurt me either to get a little loving.

The older you get the more you go back to childhood ways.  Boys are icky. 

Too much going on to focus on gardens.  Miss my quiet time with just the plants.  You can tell I've been there because my thoughts are more focused and I'm coming up with new ideas.  Gardeners really are solitary creatures.  We need that time with ourselves.  And only a cat or two for company.  Make that one cat.  Two are a time are a little hard to handle. 

Yeah, I'm going to miss Susan being so close.  Leaves an opening for somebody new in my life though.

[cineater]

OMG I saw the funniest card.  It's a Zebra lying on its side saying:  No, no, I can get up just give me a minute.   Okay sad because one of the MG's is probably not going to beat the cancer that came back.  I sent him a thank you card instead of get well.  One of the library people who decided to become an MG.  We're making him one anyway even if he didn't do everything to qualify.

[soon]

49 minutes ago, cineater said:

I think we all need to give the cats a little attention.   Wouldn't hurt me either to get a little loving.

The older you get the more you go back to childhood ways.  Boys are icky. 

Too much going on to focus on gardens.  Miss my quiet time with just the plants.  You can tell I've been there because my thoughts are more focused and I'm coming up with new ideas.  Gardeners really are solitary creatures.  We need that time with ourselves.  And only a cat or two for company.  Make that one cat.  Two are a time are a little hard to handle. 

Yeah, I'm going to miss Susan being so close.  Leaves an opening for somebody new in my life though.

You deserve so much cat loving! Beakers favourite lately is to sit on a windowsill were the wind is cracked, so he pokes his little fave right up the the screen. He wants to me stand - no kneeling allowed - and stroke his back. It is the most awkward position for me to standing in and petting, with my face up agsint the top of the window 

We really kinda are icky though 

I hope you can find some quiet time with them. Awesome that you are regaining your focous! Prolly terrifies others, but I love it! . I think this season is a complete wash for me. Yeah, Im thinking its time for me to spend a season of life back in the country. Me, beaker, a food forest and a market garden. Maybe start reading fiction that isnt Star Wars. The kind of community that is just big enough to have a bakery/art gallery/historical reading room. Where lady callers bring you pies. Just let me harvest black beans and solar energy in peace. 

I hope Susan will take good care without having you encouraging her. 

I had a strange experience at the garden recently. I was on my phone, leaning against a railing. I was startled when it started shaking so I looked up to see what it was. It was three little girls at play. But the oldest one saw me look, with most of my face covered in a mask, and she became terrified of me and started ushering the younger girls away until they all started running. You just wonder... why the fear. I was actually smiling and it shows in my eyes a lt Im told. I dunno, I keep seeing the panic appear on her face in slow motion. They were too young to be alone there, but that only occurred to me afterwards. I just hope things are alright at home.

[soon]

7 minutes ago, cineater said:

OMG I saw the funniest card.  It's a Zebra lying on its side saying:  No, no, I can get up just give me a minute.   Okay sad because one of the MG's is probably not going to beat the cancer that came back.  I sent him a thank you card instead of get well.  One of the library people who decided to become an MG.  We're making him one anyway even if he didn't do everything to qualify.

 The zebra was me on lockdown. Miss that. Cin - Im so sorry. Theres too much health stuff in your orbit. Very thoughtful choice of card. Oh dear. 

Your library recruitment plan is working out well! Nice job! 

[cineater]

The kids probably thought they were in trouble.  Susan took all this on and did a great job with it.  No doubt she can take care of shit just needs a little friend support.

The country community sounds nice.  I prefer fiction too.  I prefer to be out running around mother nature but I see you prefer space.  Maybe you should like space and drums. 

[soon]

12 minutes ago, cineater said:

The kids probably thought they were in trouble.  Susan took all this on and did a great job with it.  No doubt she can take care of shit just needs a little friend support.

The country community sounds nice.  I prefer fiction too.  I prefer to be out running around mother nature but I see you prefer space.  Maybe you should like space and drums. 

I hope that’s all it was - was very intense expression and they certainly shouldn’t have been in the park - or in this neighbourhood - alone. No masks and touching everything. I’m still gonna keep an eye out and introduce myself. There’s a porta potty where they were walking from. I think the eldest may have taken a younger to use the washroom there which would be a bad sign. There’s also discarded needles in it every morning. I’m sure you’re right ... but something about it just isn’t sitting right with me.

I will never like space and drums!! How dare you!! 

Being out in nature is great. Space does me even better. This pandemic. My city is one of only 3 in the province still posting daily new cases in double digits. Most regions have none. We had 19 yesterday and 18 today. And its no surprise - most people are being ridiculous. Everyone I encounter is so dumb that it makes me think like “oh I get it, you’re the reason that liberal democracies are crumbing before our very eyes.” To which they’d respond with some liberal version of “you’re fake news” lol

And I didn’t ignore you deadhead mother words. I can’t give in to anger - that’s there world, not mine. And the pandemic crystallized it for me, that people are as low level thinkers as I’d long suspected. So the only course of action is that I withdraw and leave all these fools to burn down society.

And plant a beautiful natives flower bed. Seems like a pretty good deal from my end!

 

[Gordon Comstock]

My jalapenos are growing really fast

@soon I think you'll appreciate my newest super-plant. It's a Deep Purple plant that's kind of exploded over the last couple weeks. From the soil to the top leaf is a little under a metre.

 

[soon]

2 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said:

My jalapenos are growing really fast

@soon I think you'll appreciate my newest super-plant. It's a Deep Purple plant that's kind of exploded over the last couple weeks. From the soil to the top leaf is a little under a metre.

 

Fuck me!!! Theyre both looking so good! Theres still so many flowers on the Jalapeños even along with all the peppers. That Deep Purple tho! That is incredible! Did you expect it to get so large? It looks so healthy. Well done!

[Gordon Comstock]

23 minutes ago, soon said:

Fuck me!!! Theyre both looking so good! Theres still so many flowers on the Jalapeños even along with all the peppers. That Deep Purple tho! That is incredible! Did you expect it to get so large? It looks so healthy. Well done!

 

I haven't grown this kind before, but it's bigger than I thought it'd be. I have another one that's in a smaller pot that's doing really well too but I let it grow more horizontally.

There's 6 or 7 peppers that are almost as big as my thumb already. I forget how many buds are on it but I could end up getting 30+ peppers off this little plant by the end of the year if it keeps doing well.

[cineater]

4 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said:

My jalapenos are growing really fast

@soon I think you'll appreciate my newest super-plant. It's a Deep Purple plant that's kind of exploded over the last couple weeks. From the soil to the top leaf is a little under a metre.

 

Pot plant?  Never seen one that big.

[cineater]

5 hours ago, soon said:

I hope that’s all it was - was very intense expression and they certainly shouldn’t have been in the park - or in this neighbourhood - alone. No masks and touching everything. I’m still gonna keep an eye out and introduce myself. There’s a porta potty where they were walking from. I think the eldest may have taken a younger to use the washroom there which would be a bad sign. There’s also discarded needles in it every morning. I’m sure you’re right ... but something about it just isn’t sitting right with me.

I will never like space and drums!! How dare you!! 

Being out in nature is great. Space does me even better. This pandemic. My city is one of only 3 in the province still posting daily new cases in double digits. Most regions have none. We had 19 yesterday and 18 today. And its no surprise - most people are being ridiculous. Everyone I encounter is so dumb that it makes me think like “oh I get it, you’re the reason that liberal democracies are crumbing before our very eyes.” To which they’d respond with some liberal version of “you’re fake news” lol

And I didn’t ignore you deadhead mother words. I can’t give in to anger - that’s there world, not mine. And the pandemic crystallized it for me, that people are as low level thinkers as I’d long suspected. So the only course of action is that I withdraw and leave all these fools to burn down society.

And plant a beautiful natives flower bed. Seems like a pretty good deal from my end!

 

Though I could not caution all, I still might warn a few
Don't lend your hand to raise no flag atop no ship of fools.

The words of the dead.

Only took us three hours to clean up Susan's house.  Can't decide if it's a case of depression or she's just a really bad housekeeper.  Maybe that house did want her out.   It is a cute little house.

[soon]

14 hours ago, cineater said:

Though I could not caution all, I still might warn a few
Don't lend your hand to raise no flag atop no ship of fools.

The words of the dead.

Only took us three hours to clean up Susan's house.  Can't decide if it's a case of depression or she's just a really bad housekeeper.  Maybe that house did want her out.   It is a cute little house.

Wow, those lyrics perfectly capture my point of view. I gave it a fresh listen and the entire song is narrating my inner voice! 

The Dead lull the listener in with a false sense of security and then drop heavy, sometimes grim, wisdom on us! Its all folksy roots music and hippie grooves... and then comes these painful truths.

Ill have to be sure to be listening to Ship of Fools when I pull up to my place in the country for the first time.

I hope that despite her health setbacks and caring for her Dad that she will be able to get a new lease on life at her new place. Is she feeling sentimental about leaving her current home? 

Susan had her surgery then, right?

Edited August 20, 2020 by soon

[soon]

15 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

I haven't grown this kind before, but it's bigger than I thought it'd be. I have another one that's in a smaller pot that's doing really well too but I let it grow more horizontally.

There's 6 or 7 peppers that are almost as big as my thumb already. I forget how many buds are on it but I could end up getting 30+ peppers off this little plant by the end of the year if it keeps doing well.

That is one happy pepper plant!! Nice job! 30 peppers, so thats a snack for you. 

Just imagine the yields youll be getting off that Deep Purple?! 

Sorry if I already asked, but are you doing any fertilizing on both plants? I need to copy you.

[Gordon Comstock]

3 minutes ago, soon said:

That is one happy pepper plant!! Nice job! 30 peppers, so thats a snack for you. 

Just imagine the yields youll be getting off that Deep Purple?! 

Sorry if I already asked, but are you doing any fertilizing on both plants? I need to copy you.

 

I'm starting to think of what to do with my first batch of jalapenos... I wanna try making tequila & lime hot sauce, but I also wanna make guacamole, and plum sauce (my parents have a plum tree in their yard). I want all my peppers to be ripe now!

No fertilizer in the jalapenos, but I use a little bit of this stuff for the weed. I've used it on other plants before and it didn't effect them that drastically.

My Devil's Tongue and one of my Sugar Rush peppers are starting to get little buds on them, too.

[cineater]

57 minutes ago, soon said:

Wow, those lyrics perfectly capture my point of view. I gave it a fresh listen and the entire song is narrating my inner voice! 

The Dead lull the listener in with a false sense of security and then drop heavy, sometimes grim, wisdom on us! Its all folksy roots music and hippie grooves... and then comes these painful truths.

Ill have to be sure to be listening to Ship of Fools when I pull up to my place in the country for the first time.

I hope that despite her health setbacks and caring for her Dad that she will be able to get a new lease on life at her new place. Is she feeling sentimental about leaving her current home? 

Susan had her surgery then, right?

You can find lots of meaning in the Dead lyrics.  The cool thing is they come with a melody.   Always though Hunter was channeling the greater minds from space. Complex thoughts in a simple line.  The cool thing is this is how greater minds think.   In stories and music.

Surgery is next Tuesday for Susan.  They did the exhausted sleep thing last night.  I must have too because I didn't wake up until 10:15.  Still to much going on in her world to reflect on how she feels about the past.  It's going to hit her someday.

Marsha says hello.  She loved your story about getting the druggies across the street.

 

[soon]

1 hour ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

I'm starting to think of what to do with my first batch of jalapenos... I wanna try making tequila & lime hot sauce, but I also wanna make guacamole, and plum sauce (my parents have a plum tree in their yard). I want all my peppers to be ripe now!

No fertilizer in the jalapenos, but I use a little bit of this stuff for the weed. I've used it on other plants before and it didn't effect them that drastically.

My Devil's Tongue and one of my Sugar Rush peppers are starting to get little buds on them, too.

I hear you - I feel the same way about my beans!  I wonder what a pepper would taste like at this stage? Dude, the flavour profiles you come up with sound so good! I hope to buy a bottle one day.

Thanks for the fertilizer link! Sure did the trick this time round! Im loving those purple jalapeño plants - they produce like this using soil nutrients alone, they look gorgeous and flower for longer than some flowering ornamentals. Do you know if theres any difference in taste?

Dont you love that feeling when you see first budding We are on day two of some chilly autumn weather here. Maybe it passes, but I want my black beans to hurry up in case the cold is here to stay already.

[soon]

11 minutes ago, cineater said:

You can find lots of meaning in the Dead lyrics.  The cool thing is they come with a melody.   Always though Hunter was channeling the greater minds from space. Complex thoughts in a simple line.  The cool thing is this is how greater minds think.   In stories and music.

Surgery is next Tuesday for Susan.  They did the exhausted sleep thing last night.  I must have too because I didn't wake up until 10:15.  Still to much going on in her world to reflect on how she feels about the past.  It's going to hit her someday.

Marsha says hello.  She loved your story about getting the druggies across the street.

 

Well said about the Dead! Hey, wait - I think in music and you think in stories! Go us!  Have you had a chance for any writing lately - You've been so busy?

Oh next Tuesday, okay. What is exhausted sleep? I bet you are exhausted! We need to get the universe to give you some time off! 

Beaker has just now dug out holes in the soil in my empty planters. I guess the boss is telling me to get planting?! Sounds like something I might just do... 

Hi to Marsha! Thats nice. Yeah, I still get a chuckle out of that myself 

[cineater]

1 minute ago, soon said:

Well said about the Dead! Hey, wait - I think in music and you think in stories! Go us!  Have you had a chance for any writing lately - You've been so busy?

Oh next Tuesday, okay. What is exhausted sleep? I bet you are exhausted! We need to get the universe to give you some time off! 

Beaker has just now dug out holes in the soil in my empty planters. I guess the boss is telling me to get planting?! Sounds like something I might just do... 

Hi to Marsha! Thats nice. Yeah, I still get a chuckle out of that myself 

I'm on a chapter called What Do You Think.  I haven't had a chance to take a melody and see what's going on.  When I write there is always, frequently Dead, music I'm writing along with.  Left you just waking up and holding the reins on a wagon at the back of the caravan.  You and I are bring up the rear.  I just went for a ride on a fast horse.

Exhausted sleep is when you sleep soundly and long after over exerting yourself physically or mentally.

Beaker loves to help.  That's what he's saying and he probably means his chives.

[cineater]

Speaking of my writing.  Do you have any pieces of cool clothing you see yourself wearing out in mother nature?  Axl has his floppy hat and poncho to hide out in.  Beta has her multicolored skirt after the "Calliope woman" in Axl's song, St Stephen.

Here's Beta.  It was a comment on how foster mother's work with foster kids using Axl and Beta:

As the man ran past a woman, she shook her finger at him and also laughed. Cimarron took a good look at her. Her skirt was beautiful, made of multiple colors of ribbons. She was the most colorful woman Cimarron had ever seen. And the cheerful look on her face. A gardener. She was trimming a wild rose bush so it wouldn't poke the people as they past by. Telling the bush in a soothing voice it was for its own good so it wouldn't be hurt. As she clipped one branch, it freed another that whipped around and poked her in the butt. She let out a little scream and laughed while she snipped that one back. She was trimming the bush but it still retained its wild, free shape. Cimarron felt she could learn much from this woman.

Here's the part where Axl first comes out of hiding in the story.  lol, this is back in 2005.  Haven't re read the beginning of the story in a long time.

Cimarron woke to the sounds of a busy camp. Feeling drained but better. Looking out the window she could see the camp was breaking down. It was a beautiful sunny day. Wrapping the blanket around her she stepped out into the cool, crisp morning air. With this sun, not long before it would warm up to a nice spring day.
She could see Kara down the way playing with another girl. The girl looked like Eva. Eldron was giving directions to the wagons lining up behind his. People were departing in all directions. Cimarron was glad to see the wagon with the new singer was heading in another direction.
Coming across the meadow leading Triump was a man covered from head to foot. A poncho across his shoulders, gloves on his hands and a hat that hid his face. Cimarron watched him come, a smile on her face. The rest of the group scurried to take their places.
Cimarron walked around to the front of the wagon where Triump had been hooked up. Big job being the lead horse. She rubbed his nose while the man climbed up to his seat in the front of the wagon and took the reins.
Beta walked up in her brightly colored skirt of ribbons and rubbed the mans leg. She would walk at his side.
Cimarron walked back to the man. Only a bundle of cloth and a hat.
St. Stephen
The hat came up. She knew that grin.
His hand went inside the poncho and pulled out the silver whistle.
The whistle went off.
The group behind yelled, Paradise City.
Triump pulled the wagon out.
Cimarron waited till the rear of the wagon came by and jumped on. Kara came running and leaped into her arms. Over her should she spoke to Eldron, Ill be staying a while.

Edited August 20, 2020 by cineater

[soon]

44 minutes ago, cineater said:

I'm on a chapter called What Do You Think.  I haven't had a chance to take a melody and see what's going on.  When I write there is always, frequently Dead, music I'm writing along with.  Left you just waking up and holding the reins on a wagon at the back of the caravan.  You and I are bring up the rear.  I just went for a ride on a fast horse.

Exhausted sleep is when you sleep soundly and long after over exerting yourself physically or mentally.

Beaker loves to help.  That's what he's saying and he probably means his chives.

I love your writing. And I love that Im in it!! Thats really moving - Im honoured. You going on a fast horse ride resonates with me. And Id totally be on the wagon bring up the rear! Too cool! I wonder where we're going?

Im gonna start some chives after lunch. 

20 minutes ago, cineater said:

Speaking of my writing.  Do you have any pieces of cool clothing you see yourself wearing out in mother nature?  Axl has his floppy hat and poncho to hide out in.  Beta has her multicolored skirt after the "Calliope woman" in Axl's song, St Stephen.

Here's Beta.  It was a comment on how foster mother's work with foster kids using Axl and Beta:

As the man ran past a woman, she shook her finger at him and also laughed. Cimarron took a good look at her. Her skirt was beautiful, made of multiple colors of ribbons. She was the most colorful woman Cimarron had ever seen. And the cheerful look on her face. A gardener. She was trimming a wild rose bush so it wouldn't poke the people as they past by. Telling the bush in a soothing voice it was for its own good so it wouldn't be hurt. As she clipped one branch, it freed another that whipped around and poked her in the butt. She let out a little scream and laughed while she snipped that one back. She was trimming the bush but it still retained its wild, free shape. Cimarron felt she could learn much from this woman.

Your writing is gold! Like really great! Im right there in that moment, observing the sights and sounds, smelling the rose bush. And I let out a laugh when she got poked, lol. Im grateful you shared this with me - fiction like this can really brighten up the mind.

Okay, Im gonna have to give this question some thought....

Thanks again for sharing this beautiful piece of writing!

[soon]

53 minutes ago, cineater said:

Speaking of my writing.  Do you have any pieces of cool clothing you see yourself wearing out in mother nature?  Axl has his floppy hat and poncho to hide out in.  Beta has her multicolored skirt after the "Calliope woman" in Axl's song, St Stephen.

Here's Beta.  It was a comment on how foster mother's work with foster kids using Axl and Beta:

As the man ran past a woman, she shook her finger at him and also laughed. Cimarron took a good look at her. Her skirt was beautiful, made of multiple colors of ribbons. She was the most colorful woman Cimarron had ever seen. And the cheerful look on her face. A gardener. She was trimming a wild rose bush so it wouldn't poke the people as they past by. Telling the bush in a soothing voice it was for its own good so it wouldn't be hurt. As she clipped one branch, it freed another that whipped around and poked her in the butt. She let out a little scream and laughed while she snipped that one back. She was trimming the bush but it still retained its wild, free shape. Cimarron felt she could learn much from this woman.

Here's the part where Axl first comes out of hiding in the story.  lol, this is back in 2005.  Haven't re read the beginning of the story in a long time.

Cimarron woke to the sounds of a busy camp. Feeling drained but better. Looking out the window she could see the camp was breaking down. It was a beautiful sunny day. Wrapping the blanket around her she stepped out into the cool, crisp morning air. With this sun, not long before it would warm up to a nice spring day.
She could see Kara down the way playing with another girl. The girl looked like Eva. Eldron was giving directions to the wagons lining up behind his. People were departing in all directions. Cimarron was glad to see the wagon with the new singer was heading in another direction.
Coming across the meadow leading Triump was a man covered from head to foot. A poncho across his shoulders, gloves on his hands and a hat that hid his face. Cimarron watched him come, a smile on her face. The rest of the group scurried to take their places.
Cimarron walked around to the front of the wagon where Triump had been hooked up. Big job being the lead horse. She rubbed his nose while the man climbed up to his seat in the front of the wagon and took the reins.
Beta walked up in her brightly colored skirt of ribbons and rubbed the mans leg. She would walk at his side.
Cimarron walked back to the man. Only a bundle of cloth and a hat.
St. Stephen
The hat came up. She knew that grin.
His hand went inside the poncho and pulled out the silver whistle.
The whistle went off.
The group behind yelled, Paradise City.
Triump pulled the wagon out.
Cimarron waited till the rear of the wagon came by and jumped on. Kara came running and leaped into her arms. Over her should she spoke to Eldron, Ill be staying a while.

This is too cool!!!! I love it! What a neat telling of Axls return. And then off we went! I love that image of Axl. Very cool story!

Okay, so I picture me in any of the following that youd like to use or not,

- tight black jeans, ankle length hiking boots with a multi tool in the boot strap, work gloves hanging out my back pocket

- tie dye tank top

- burgundy cowboy hat 

- thin denim jacket, almost a shirt, for when I go in forests because I fear dear ticks. very light pale blue 

Whats really cool is that I have been eyeing a burgundy cowboy hat for some time now, to wear out in nature. And that kit fits right in with your story! 

[cineater]

1 hour ago, soon said:

This is too cool!!!! I love it! What a neat telling of Axls return. And then off we went! I love that image of Axl. Very cool story!

Okay, so I picture me in any of the following that youd like to use or not,

- tight black jeans, ankle length hiking boots with a multi tool in the boot strap, work gloves hanging out my back pocket

- tie dye tank top

- burgundy cowboy hat 

- thin denim jacket, almost a shirt, for when I go in forests because I fear dear ticks. very light pale blue 

Whats really cool is that I have been eyeing a burgundy cowboy hat for some time now, to wear out in nature. And that kit fits right in with your story! 

Loving the hat and multi tool.  You can dress just like that but I will feature those.

I fashioned Axl's clothes after a Clint Eastwood character.  He's introduced into the story as wish you were here, you know he's around, is that him, all the clues are pointing to him but you haven't been told.  And the final who's blowing the whistle, confirms you know the secret identity of the man who does his business in the woods where you can't find him.  The story is called a GNR Fairy Tale.  GNR is the smokescreen but it's really about me.  I steal a lot of shit like the title from other places but there's some original stuff that even surprised me and I think it's good writing.

[soon]

1 hour ago, cineater said:

Loving the hat and multi tool.  You can dress just like that but I will feature those.

I fashioned Axl's clothes after a Clint Eastwood character.  He's introduced into the story as wish you were here, you know he's around, is that him, all the clues are pointing to him but you haven't been told.  And the final who's blowing the whistle, confirms you know the secret identity of the man who does his business in the woods where you can't find him.  The story is called a GNR Fairy Tale.  GNR is the smokescreen but it's really about me.  I steal a lot of shit like the title from other places but there's some original stuff that even surprised me and I think it's good writing.

Cool - they can be my talisman. 

I can picture that Eastwood character now that you mention it (havent seen it though)! This is all too cool! Thats the perfect way to introduce Axl.

Its stellar writing! I cant believe Im in it!!!!