One In A Million being erased from history

[Ratam]

1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

Yes he did, who else wrote it?!

Sorry, i will delete my post, not know what f**ck i thinked in Marilyn Manson

[Len Cnut]

13 minutes ago, killuridols said:

They should do like the Germans with 'Mein Kampf'..... Openly release new special edition accompanied by annotated educational guide.

Period. Everybody wins.

Have you tried reading that thing with the annotations?  There's more annotation than there is Mein Kampf  

[killuridols]

2 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Have you tried reading that thing with the annotations?  There's more annotation than there is Mein Kampf  

No, I really want a copy of that!

Hahaha but yeah, that's the point, isn't it?

 

[Ratam]

I maybe be lazy fan ;but i recognize my errors ,different someone "fan"..that is up in her high pedestal

[Ratam]

10 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

Yes he did, who else wrote it?!

Same has plenty lazy "journalists"....

[action]

11 minutes ago, killuridols said:

They should do like the Germans with 'Mein Kampf'..... Openly release new special edition accompanied by annotated educational guide.

Period. Everybody wins.

I like this way of thinking. Seeing how the closest thing to OIAM is "mein kampf". So yeah, let's approach GNR lies, catalogue number HM200, in the same way so our future generations are protected.

Having said that, the lies album has an annotation of the song on it's cover. But again, I understand, it is not enough. So who is up for the task to write an educational guide to OIAM? It must be educational first and foremost, since that is what rock n roll is all about....no that's not right...what it is about from now on. good. We'll get there.

[Len Cnut]

7 minutes ago, action said:

So who is up for the task to write an educational guide to OIAM? It must be educational first and foremost, since that is what rock n roll is all about....no that's not right...what it is about from now on. good. We'll get there.

I'll do it.  'this is a song written by a ginger yokel.  it is to be understood as such'  The End

[action]

Just now, Len Cnut said:

I'll do it.  'this is a song written by a ginger yokel.  it is to be understood as such'  The End

someone should write educational guides to most of your posts

[Len Cnut]

6 minutes ago, action said:

someone should write educational guides to most of your posts

'these posts are written by a cunt.  they are to be understood as such'  The End

[action]

1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

'these posts are written by a cunt.  they are to be understood as such'  The End

I was just kidding of course. your posts are cool. 

[killuridols]

1 minute ago, action said:

I like this way of thinking. Seeing how the closest thing to OIAM is "mein kampf". So yeah, let's approach GNR lies, catalogue number HM200, in the same way so our future generations are protected.

Having said that, the lies album has an annotation of the song on it's cover. But again, I understand, it is not enough. So who is up for the task to write an educational guide to OIAM? It must be educational first and foremost, since that is what rock n roll is all about....no that's not right...what it is about from now on. good. We'll get there.

Why do you get so riled up? 

I was obviously joking about that. Also, the annotation in the cover of Lies is useless, people do not buy physical albums anymore. Digital versions barely give you information on the release date and that's it.

I have yet to see where it is written that rock n' roll must attack the weaker links in society. All the contrary, doesn't rock have its origin in African American music styles like blues, jazz, folk, etc? Wasn't rock music an element for desegregation in the USA?

Rock and music in general has always been a cultural product that helped bringing people together.

 

[Len Cnut]

I can remember listening to One in a Million when it came out and honestly, it wasn't that shocking.  I mean n!gger is obviously not a nice word but then, listening to what i thought was a street kinda band, I didn't think it was that out of the ordinary.  bearing in mind GnR were some of my formative musical experiences.  As for the bit about immigrants, well, growing up in working class surroundings in England that sort of comment wasn't out of the ordinary.  Alf Garnett was still on the telly in them days, Bernard Manning too.  Fuck, I could go to school and hear a lot worse than that.  Its just pretty ordinary.  And as far as the whole stuff about f@ggots, well, again, gay people were a common figure of ridicule back then, it certainly wasn't an accepted way to be, there weren't any gay and proud kids in my primary school or secondary school or even when i went to college.  So the shock value bit, well, look...its envoirnmental I think.  hooray for tolerance! was just not an uncommon term when I was growing up.  Neither was yiddo or paki or smelly arab or...y'know, pick your fuckin' nationality. 

[action]

1 minute ago, Len Cnut said:

I can remember listening to One in a Million when it came out and honestly, it wasn't that shocking.  I mean n!gger is obviously not a nice word but then, listening to what i thought was a street kinda band, I didn't think it was that out of the ordinary.  bearing in mind GnR were some of my formative musical experiences.  As for the bit about immigrants, well, growing up in working class surroundings in England that sort of comment wasn't out of the ordinary.  Alf Garnett was still on the telly in them days, Bernard Manning too.  Fuck, I could go to school and hear a lot worse than that.  Its just pretty ordinary.  And as far as the whole stuff about f@ggots, well, again, gay people were a common figure of ridicule back then, it certainly wasn't an accepted way to be, there weren't any gay and proud kids in my primary school or secondary school or even when i went to college.  So the shock value bit, well, look...its envoirnmental I think.  hooray for tolerance! was just not an uncommon term when I was growing up.  Neither was yiddo or paki or smelly arab or...y'know, pick your fuckin' nationality. 

hooray for tolerance

[killuridols]

3 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I can remember listening to One in a Million when it came out and honestly, it wasn't that shocking.  I mean n!gger is obviously not a nice word but then, listening to what i thought was a street kinda band, I didn't think it was that out of the ordinary.  bearing in mind GnR were some of my formative musical experiences.  As for the bit about immigrants, well, growing up in working class surroundings in England that sort of comment wasn't out of the ordinary.  Alf Garnett was still on the telly in them days, Bernard Manning too.  Fuck, I could go to school and hear a lot worse than that.  Its just pretty ordinary.  And as far as the whole stuff about f@ggots, well, again, gay people were a common figure of ridicule back then, it certainly wasn't an accepted way to be, there weren't any gay and proud kids in my primary school or secondary school or even when i went to college.  So the shock value bit, well, look...its envoirnmental I think.  hooray for tolerance! was just not an uncommon term when I was growing up.  Neither was yiddo or paki or smelly arab or...y'know, pick your fuckin' nationality. 

This is important to highlight. Many of you grew up with those things and even naturalized it, because if everybody says it, it must be like that and who dares to contradict, right?

In my case, neither the n--- word or immigrant insults were part of my environment (there aren't black people in Argentina and there weren't any immigrants where I grew up). Yes, there were gays and I heard the insults all the time, but it was the 90s already, Freddy had died, Kurt Cobain was god... I mean, times were changing slowly by then.

[Blackstar]

11 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Why do you get so riled up? 

I was obviously joking about that.

Yeah, apart from the Streisand effect about stirring unwanted publicity that has been brought up in the thread, there's this too about arguments: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

[Gackt]

In the end, it could have been UMG's decision to omit the song from the box instead of the band's.  Who knows?

A song that's been out for public consumption for 30 years, and is easily available with a quick search on youtube can't simply be erased from history and forgotten that easily.

[Len Cnut]

11 minutes ago, killuridols said:

This is important to highlight. Many of you grew up with those things and even naturalized it, because if everybody says it, it must be like that and who dares to contradict, right?

In my case, neither the n--- word or immigrant insults were part of my environment (there aren't black people in Argentina and there weren't any immigrants where I grew up). Yes, there were gays and I heard the insults all the time, but it was the 90s already, Freddy had died, Kurt Cobain was god... I mean, times were changing slowly by then.

At the same time though, despite that being a pretty common envoirnment in England that kind thing was still a bit of a noise in England in the media if someone said some of those kinds of sentiments etc.  A small part of my point was perhaps there is a divide between what the media present and blow up as shocking etc etc and what is common on the streets of...London or Paris or Buenos Aires or wherever (not that I can speak with any authority about the latter two).  I think you make a good point about envoirnment in the sense of growing up around it and it feeling kind of natural. 

Is Argentina not a place with a lot of racism then?  I'm asking because I don't know.  I mean I knew they were nice sentiments but at the same time it was like 'OHMIGOD, HE SAID THAT?!?'.  Also like, growing up at that time, and GnR being some of my very formative musical impressions, and being a kind of person who sought out 'bad boys' in music, if you like.  bad boys and bad girls, it just felt like...one of a long list of awful things you could say in music.  Racism wasn't up on this top shelf of the awful things that might be bought up.  I mean their album covers depicted a rape so...when you grow up, as a lad...and what you watch is like...action films, westerns, kinda adult cinema...then grow up in a working class envoirnment...racism etc, its really not that shocking, in a one to one way its really not that powerful to you.  Institutionally is where it is a scary thing.  When you're in school and you realise like, its not just something people say to people to insult them, its like an actual structural thing geared against certain folk, thats when it sinks in as something with a sort of gravity to it.  But just inter-personally, or in a movie, it just doesn't seem that powerful.  And honestly, if you're watching movies or listening to music and taking cues regarding your behaviour in the real world, you've probably got a bit of a screw loose. 

[Len Cnut]

6 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

People who are afraid of mere words should be much more afraid of themselves.

Fuckin' kiwi slag.

[Blackstar]

1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

You need to look exactly at the types of headlines we're talking about here and who cares about them, saying that it 'made headlines' is a bit of a misnomer, it wasn't on the front page of any newspaper I can claim without actually knowing with a fair degree of certainty because, quite frankly, no one cares about Guns n Roses.  It wouldn't have been THAT big a news item either way.

Yeah, "headlines" was an hyperbole. But that nobody cares is not quite accurate and literal either. GnR are not exactly relevant today, but many people who now work in the press were around as kids during their heyday, so they write about them. Probably many of the people who read the articles don't care, but they're making press regardless.

[Len Cnut]

2 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Yeah, "headlines" was an hyperbole. But that nobody cares is not quite accurate and literal either. GnR are not exactly relevant today, but many people who now work in the press were around as kids during their heyday, so they write about them. Probably many of the people who read the articles don't care, but they're making press regardless.

I meant nobody cares in that, yknow, lets be fair here, its not actually big news.  Headlines is kinda misleading as a term, Harry and Meghan are not struggling for cover space here.  Its only really news for either 1) GnR fans and 2) people who remember GnR and might devote 2 mins of their life taking the piss out of them on the internet.

[killuridols]

25 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Yeah, apart from the Streisand effect about stirring unwanted publicity that has been brought up in the thread, there's this too about arguments: 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Loooooooooooooool!!!!! 

Well, it wasn't my intention...  I strangely associated the way the Germans dealt with a book that was considered 'forbidden', oftenly demonized, and relegated to be found only in dumpsters, therefore attracting more curious people to it, with how GN'R perhaps should deal with a future re-release of Lies. Of course, it was just bollocks to spice up the conversation.

I also thought of a funnybox set, hahaha, but I will refrain from telling you guys about it now 

Must notice this though:

Godwin's law itself can be abused as a distraction, diversion or even as censorship, fallaciously miscasting an opponent's argument as hyperbole when the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate.

[Ratam]

13 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

Yeah, "headlines" was an hyperbole. But that nobody cares is not quite accurate and literal either. GnR are not exactly relevant today, but many people who now work in the press were around as kids during their heyday, so they write about them. Probably many of the people who read the articles don't care, but they're making press regardless.

This Golden Globe article yesterday are between the most views articles.

[DTV88]

5 hours ago, Chris 55 said:

I don't think Axl regrets it at all. He removed the song from future pressings because the song was easily misunderstood. 

Agree to disagree then. 

[Blackstar]

31 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

2) people who remember GnR and might devote 2 mins of their life taking the piss out of them on the internet.

"Axel Rose is a dick. I hate him" 

24 minutes ago, Ratam said:

This Golden Globe article yesterday are between the most views articles.

Mostly because of the Trump references. Trump supporters are going off on the writer in the comments.

[killuridols]

24 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

At the same time though, despite that being a pretty common envoirnment in England that kind thing was still a bit of a noise in England in the media if someone said some of those kinds of sentiments etc.  A small part of my point was perhaps there is a divide between what the media present and blow up as shocking etc etc and what is common on the streets of...London or Paris or Buenos Aires or wherever (not that I can speak with any authority about the latter two).  I think you make a good point about envoirnment in the sense of growing up around it and it feeling kind of natural. 

Is Argentina not a place with a lot of racism then?  I'm asking because I don't know.  I mean I knew they were nice sentiments but at the same time it was like 'OHMIGOD, HE SAID THAT?!?'.  Also like, growing up at that time, and GnR being some of my very formative musical impressions, and being a kind of person who sought out 'bad boys' in music, if you like.  bad boys and bad girls, it just felt like...one of a long list of awful things you could say in music.  Racism wasn't up on this top shelf of the awful things that might be bought up.  I mean their album covers depicted a rape so...when you grow up, as a lad...and what you watch is like...action films, westerns, kinda adult cinema...then grow up in a working class envoirnment...racism etc, its really not that shocking, in a one to one way its really not that powerful to you.  Institutionally is where it is a scary thing.  When you're in school and you realise like, its not just something people say to people to insult them, its like an actual structural thing geared against certain folk, thats when it sinks in as something with a sort of gravity to it.  But just inter-personally, or in a movie, it just doesn't seem that powerful.  And honestly, if you're watching movies or listening to music and taking cues regarding your behaviour in the real world, you've probably got a bit of a screw loose. 

Can I say that I really really really loved Richard Hoggart's "The uses of literacy"? 

Argentina is a place where the dominant race is white, or a mix of European (mainly Italian and Spanish) with aboriginal. After the First and Second World War, we received a wave of immigrants from Europe, mainly Italians, Spanish, Polish, Hungarians, Austrians, Germans, etc, also Jews. Argentina's Jewish community is the biggest in Latinamerica. The Turkish and Arab communities also must be mentioned as important in quantity.

In the 90s, we started receiving what is considered the second wave of immigration, that is from the neighboring countries: Bolivia, Paraguay, Perú, Uruguay, Colombia, more or less in that order of quantity.

We are entering a third wave, with immigrants from Venezuela, Ecuador, Senegal and China. But they must be around the 1% of the population (or even less).

So, is there racism? Not in the USA levels, not in Brazil levels, but there is a lot of segregation against the people who come from neighboring countries. They are oftenly perceived as either criminals or people who come to leech our resources. This is the way some press introduce them to the population in their headlines: "Public hospitals overwhelmed with Bolivians and Paraguayans. Argentinians have to wait 6 months to get surgery"... Or "Peruvian maid caught on camera beating elderly woman".... or.... "Public university is full of immigrant students, our kids have to struggle for a desk." I don't know if this happens in other countries, but Argentina has that way of building enemies all the time in order to blame our problems on someone else. Like, public education and health system are becoming frail, so who's fault is it?? THE IMMIGRANTS!! THOSE LEECHES!!  

Yeah, I understand what you mean about the impact of cultural things, growing up with them and then seeing it becoming real in the institutionalized life.

When I bought AFD, it didn't come with the rape cover, it was the AFD cross, but I think I saw the cover years later. I really don't remember what I thought of it. I wasn't shocked, I was not celebrating it either or putting up posters of that. It was really late in life that I came to understand and see all the bad with those lyrics, that imagery.... I still like the band, but there's no way in hell I will get a tshirt with the original cover of AFD or any other shit of the sort. Just like I never play OIAM, or to be honest, hardly play any GN'R lately.... I think I've made a list of my fav songs and that's what I play: Coma, Locomotive, Dead Horse, Coma, Yesterdays,  Estranged, Coma, Civil War, Estranged, Breakdown, Coma, Locomotive, Coma, you know.....