Most rape cases are just bad sex, says feminist Germaine Greer

[action]

50 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Well, that's one of the things feminism fights for... that women should be allowed to go anywhere they wanted, alone, naked, half-naked or covered from head to toe, and not having to pay a price for their freedom of circulation ... 

That is an utopia right now, in some places, so women have to find different ways to move around if they want to go face the world by themselves. Usually it becomes difficult and it's wiser to move in group, with the company of a male or directly not going anywhere, much less to potential dangerous places.

A couple of years ago, I went out at night and came back home around 2am. I took the bus because it has a stop about 2 blocks away from my house. I thought it wasn't a risky situation to walk only 2 blocks. So I did it, but when I was close to my address, I saw 3 guys, standing up in a doorstep, drinking beer and laughing. I immediately knew I was in trouble and hey, I wasn't wearing anything provocative. Actually, it was winter, so I was all covered. What I did was cross the opposite sidewalk so I didn't have to pass by them. But it only took them to see I was a woman walking alone, for them to target me and when I was coming close, they screamed things at me. At that moment, I felt threatened and I started walking faster, preparing myself for an attack any time soon. Fortunately, they didn't follow me or anything and I got home safe.

My neighborhood is not located in an ugly part of the city, the blocks I had to walk have several street lights and I was not dressed in a revealing way, yet I got cat called just for being female walking alone the streets at night. Very unfair.

problem is, with the current political correct climate, it will only be even more unacceptable for a woman to dress sexy in public. in formula 1, the pit babes are a dying race. female protagonists in movies tend to be less sexy on purpose (lara croft getting smaller tits etc). the female body is being demonised as if it is some kind of sinful object.

tits and ass are increasingly becoming taboo, while violence and inhumanity is becoming the norm. A terrorist attack with no casualties does not raise attention anymore. It's only with two or more casualties that we go "oops" but quickly forget about it by the next day. we're living in an increasingly inhuman society that diabolises the female body.

[soon]

20 minutes ago, action said:

problem is, with the current political correct climate, it will only be even more unacceptable for a woman to dress sexy in public. in formula 1, the pit babes are a dying race. female protagonists in movies tend to be less sexy on purpose (lara croft getting smaller tits etc). the female body is being demonised as if it is some kind of sinful object.

tits and ass are increasingly becoming taboo, while violence and inhumanity is becoming the norm. A terrorist attack with no casualties does not raise attention anymore. It's only with two or more casualties that we go "oops" but quickly forget about it by the next day. we're living in an increasingly inhuman society that diabolises the female body.

At the same time we are also living in the era of OITNB and Girls. Both intentionally contain both sexual and non sexual depictions of the naked female body.

[EvanG]

Let's not forget, guys can be sexually intimidated too. I realize it's not the same compared to what women must endure, but it's not always comfortable either. I always see women eyeing me and checking out my cute hiney and sometimes even shouting comments at me like I'm some piece of meat. I know it's not the same as being sexually harassed and sometimes I even feel a little flattered, but it's not nice always being seen as eye candy. I have feelings too, I am more than just a pretty face with a fantastic body.

Edited June 2, 2018 by EvanG

[action]

1 minute ago, EvanG said:

Let's not forget, guys can be sexually intimitated too. I realize it's not the same compared to what women must endure, but it's not always comfortable either. I always see women eyeing me and checking out my cute heiny and sometimes even shouting comments at me like I'm some piece of meat. I know it's not the same as being sexually harassed and sometimes I even feel a little flattered, but it's not nice always being seen as eye candy. I have feelings too, I am more than just a pretty face with a fantastic body.

aww. poor man

[killuridols]

12 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

1. How does feminism fight for that? It would be great if the world was that safe. Maybe I'm cynical but I just don't see how that's ever going to be reality tbh.
2. That's messed up and creepy and I agree it is unfair. Good that nothing worse happened.

In Argentina, at least, asking for some policies that provide extra protection to women in public places. For example, there was a list of female taxi drivers that would work at night and that you can call them, as a woman, to take you back and forth from clubs, bars, etc. This is to prevent the attack of male taxi drivers, since there have been many cases of female passengers being raped by them.

In public transportation, there are warning signs to men who like rubbing themselves agaisn't female passengers. The bus driver or some other person (like a guard) are given the power to make those guys get off the bus, if a victim accuses them of rubbing.

Yes, I know that it seems an utopia to make the world safer for females but I think that aside laws or public policies, a change in culture is fundamental. It will take decades, even centuries, but maybe we get achieve something.

31 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

People mess with people when they can get away with it, just to be mean I guess. With women you have that extra layer of fear and yeah that's very unfortunate and must be tough.

Yeah but the problem is that women have been attacked and terrorized to a point that any stranger approaching you has become a potential "rapist" in your mind.

I don't know exactly when some men went from being respectfully courteous to women, to now jumping on them like desperate monkeys. 

I am talking about situations in public spaces, you know? In the private space, abuse is bigger and happens more often. All in all, my stance is that women need to become stronger, both in character and physically. And men, need to be taught that they do not own other people, especially women.

This is a task for the mothers and fathers of today, raising little girls and little boys.

34 minutes ago, action said:

problem is, with the current political correct climate, it will only be even more unacceptable for a woman to dress sexy in public. in formula 1, the pit babes are a dying race. female protagonists in movies tend to be less sexy on purpose (lara croft getting smaller tits etc). the female body is being demonised as if it is some kind of sinful object.

tits and ass are increasingly becoming taboo, while violence and inhumanity is becoming the norm. A terrorist attack with no casualties does not raise attention anymore. It's only with two or more casualties that we go "oops" but quickly forget about it by the next day. we're living in an increasingly inhuman society that diabolises the female body.

I don't know about that. I feel that many women are feeling a new empowerment to do and say whatever they want. Dressing sexy is no longer an "excuse" to get cat called or abuse or raped. 

Some men will do it, regardless of what you are wearing, your age and/or physical apparence. Even women who are pregnant do not get any respect anymore.

Female body has always been demonized. Females are depicted as diabolical, referred as "witches" and burned for that. In Catholicism, Eve is the one who pushes Adam to eat the forbidden fruit. And in 2018, we still hear some men associating periods with being in a "bad mood".

Nothing new under the sun, really.

[Graeme]

I mean, the basic argument about responsibility is that the root cause of rape is 100% the rapists. If you see a naked woman walking down the street (an extreme and kinda ridiculous example to prove a point), it would still be your decision to approach her, overpower her against her will and physically penetrate her. The idea is that as a society, we should focus all our energy on punishing that behaviour in place of accepting that these things happen a matter of course and expecting that women (or indeed anyone else) accept that getting raped is a possibility and not do things they might want to do (i.e. take routes that get them to places faster or wear clothes that they enjoy wearing) in order to avoid that.

Call it 'utopian' if you like, but morally I don't think there's any way to argue against that sentiment and that's what we should be striving for as a society. There's no such thing as a 'dangerous street', just dangerous people; and we need to focus on reducing the numbers of 'dangerous people' not just punitively but through an educative long-term cultural shift.

[action]

1 hour ago, Graeme said:

I mean, the basic argument about responsibility is that the root cause of rape is 100% the rapists. If you see a naked woman walking down the street (an extreme and kinda ridiculous example to prove a point), it would still be your decision to approach her, overpower her against her will and physically penetrate her. The idea is that as a society, we should focus all our energy on punishing that behaviour in place of accepting that these things happen a matter of course and expecting that women (or indeed anyone else) accept that getting raped is a possibility and not do things they might want to do (i.e. take routes that get them to places faster or wear clothes that they enjoy wearing) in order to avoid that.

Call it 'utopian' if you like, but morally I don't think there's any way to argue against that sentiment and that's what we should be striving for as a society. There's no such thing as a 'dangerous street', just dangerous people; and we need to focus on reducing the numbers of 'dangerous people' not just punitively but through an educative long-term cultural shift.

agreed

Edited June 2, 2018 by action

[Graeme]

12 minutes ago, action said:

agree with the first paragraph, but not the second. there are very much "dangerous streets", in fact I dont think there is any other kind

Which of these apparent dangers cannot be attributed to "dangerous people", but to the streets themselves? Trip hazards? Open manholes? Urban wildlife?

[action]

1 hour ago, Graeme said:

Which of these apparent dangers cannot be attributed to "dangerous people", but to the streets themselves? Trip hazards? Open manholes? Urban wildlife?

I've edited my post shortly after making that statement. misreading on my part.

[Graeme]

No worries!

[action]

7 minutes ago, Graeme said:

No worries!

cool.

though the question you rise is an interesting one. is it the streets that are dangerous, or the people in them? you may think I'm crazy, but there is something to say about the former.

I agree, ultimately it's people that commit the crimes. But as the song goes "the streets don't change, but baby the names". It means, that some streets, all streets, basically the area outside of your property, is full of danger and uncertainty. Let's take a stroll to an imaginary street, you and me. See anyone there? no, the street is deserted. Now then, please put 5000 $ in the middle of the street, and we'll come back here in about half an hour. Would you put your money where I tell you? Since the street, which appears empty, isnt dangerous, that should not be a problem to you.

So the thing I'm trying to say is, there is always an element of uncertainty. What "appears" safe this moment, could become a danger in the next five minutes. This reality is so relevant, that basically "the streets" identify with the (potential) people in them so it's all a case of semantics.

there are streets out there, where I wouldn't dare to walk at night, even when no one is there

Edited June 2, 2018 by action

[soon]

On June 1, 2018 at 3:49 PM, alfierose said:

This is why women like Greer are valuable to feminism even if you often think 'what the fuck, really Germaine?'  She and others like her act as a catalyst for debate and sometimes out of that debate comes something useful regardless of whether there is agreement on whatever controversial views have been made in the first place. I went to see her on a talking tour about 7 years back and I definitely had a few WTF moments but she is is an engaging and interesting speaker even if you don't 100% agree with her views.

I know of Greer primarily through reputation, but it seems to me that Camille Paglia is kinda the NA equivalent as far as being an agitator within the Feminist movement? Her criticisms of current Trans theory - which one might think would be off putting to young people - sure seem to be influential on new feminist voices like YouTuber Laci Green (who it's entirely likely no one knows about. But just agreeing that these outside, wtf voices can have an impact on the conversation).

Edited June 3, 2018 by soon

[Whiskey Rose]

8 hours ago, killuridols said:

All in all, my stance is that women need to become stronger, both in character and physically. And men, need to be taught that they do not own other people, especially women.

This is a task for the mothers and fathers of today, raising little girls and little boys.

Could not agree more with this statement. This is what most definitely needs to happen. C'mon parents of the world!

[Len Cnut]

Its quite clear what Greers trying to say and I don’t think they’re AS bad as the Daily Bollocks is saying but I think she knows exactly what shes doing, she appears to be making a broader pedantic point about rape, whether shes trying to knowingly shit stir or not i wouldnt like to guess but i dont doubt the sincerity of her intent as well, the two aren’t indivisible I guess.  In fact, I can see what she’s trying to say to a point.  I wouldn’t want to plant a flag for it but...yeah, i can see how its not always a violent act, though it is always an ugly one.  Its quite admirable to a point, she appears empowered enough, by force of will, to not be afraid of it.  I’ve always liked Germaine Greer.  I’m not sure I’m qualified to comment on the crime and punishment angle of the issue so i wouldn’t necessarily get behind that.  Read what shes actually said and have a think about it.  The idea that rape is sometimes kind of common and mundane, I can see how that might be looked at like that, like the example she gives of the guy demanding his conjugals, none of what shes saying is saying rape is OK or rape isn’t so bad, its looking at the contemporary characterisation of it in society and going ‘i dont think its entirely that’.  A lot of her point is to do with hysteria.  And hysteria doesn’t necessarily mean an unwarranted response but rather one that is a little less sober.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Len Cnut

[Gracii Guns]

While her comments were badly worded, I think she has a point.

Men who don’t take no for an answer don’t use force, but more persuasion. More charm, more drink, more flirting. While she’s trying to be nice and not rude. Perhaps she likes him but is hoping to be asked for her number instead?

Because, let’s face it, half-hearted sex from either partner is bad sex. 

I know that I’ve not said anything new here. But I found myself in a very dangerous situation like the above when I was 18. I didn’t sleep with him, but needed a place to stay that one night in a strange town, after I fell out with my friend on a night out. I was very close to saying ‘yes’ just to stop him pestering me. If that had happened I’d have considered that non-consensual. 

Edit: I’m going to clarify that I know that my scenario wouldn’t get him in any trouble. But it’s still a bad situation and perhaps the law does need updating to avoid victim blaming. 

Edited June 4, 2018 by Gracii Guns

[KiraMPD]

Just because one buckles under the pressure of an annoying individual or group, it does not mean it's non-consensual. At the end of the day it is still their decision and more importantly they were in a position to make a decision. A non-consensual encounter is when the ability make that decision is not presented or when a negative response is negated or ignored.

One would think that one would have the presence of mind and self respect to not have sex with another just on the biases that they were being annoying and the individual in question needed a place to stay. It's certainly not something someone should be charged with a criminal offence for imo.

 

Edited June 6, 2018 by KiraMPD

[toroymoi]

She's disgusting.