European Parliment Election Results 2019

[EvanG]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

Can you answer any of that?

You are saying, ''don't abandon...make better'', and indeed this is a frequent refrain of soft-Eurosceptics, and a position I once adopted myself, but my question to you is: how? 

 

I couldn't tell you in specific details like that even if I wanted to because my knowledge doesn't go that far, but I can't see why it wouldn't be possible to make changes to a political system. And when a lot of people who are a lot smarter than me and definitely know more about this than me (or you for that matter) say it is possible, then I will trust them. Now can you name three good things about the EU? 

[DieselDaisy]

3 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I couldn't tell you in specific details like that even if I wanted to because my knowledge doesn't go that far, but I can't see why it wouldn't be possible to make changes to a political system. And when a lot of people who are a lot smarter than me and definitely know more about this than me (or you for that matter) say it is possible, then I will trust them. Now can you name three good things about the EU? 

I have actually researched the EU in some detail I must warn you, and have a decent knowledge of its history and constitution. 

Why should I because you, and Soul, can not be bothered to answer my questions? I do have one incidentally, but I don't see why I should produce it? ''Britain was deluded reading things on Boris's buses and should 'fuck off' (your words)'', yet, when faced with a rational critique of the EU none of you even reply.

[EvanG]

21 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I have actually researched the EU in some detail I must warn you, and have a decent knowledge of its history and constitution. 

Why should I because you, and Soul, can not be bothered to answer my questions? I do have one incidentally, but I don't see why I should produce it? ''Britain was deluded reading things on Boris's buses and should 'fuck off' (your words)'', yet, when faced with a rational critique of the EU none of you even reply.

I'm sure you do, and I'm sure you know more about it than me. I'm not an expert on this subject and I never claimed to be. I wouldn't mind answering your question, but I already said I don't have enough knowledge to go into these kind of details. It's not that I blindly trust politicians but when most politicians here, whether they are left or right, say that it's possible to make changes to the EU then why would I not believe them but rather a guy on the internet who says it's not possible? And again, I don't see why it couldn't be possible to change a political system.

You don't have to answer my question, I was just curious because the EU has done a lot of good things as well, yet I haven't seen many Eurosceptics like yourself admit to that.

Edited May 29, 2019 by EvanG

[DieselDaisy]

20 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I'm sure you do, and I'm sure you know more about it than me. I'm not an expert on this subject and I never claimed to be. I wouldn't mind answering your question, but I already said I don't have enough knowledge to go into these kind of details. It's not that I blindly trust politicians but when most politician here, whether they are left or right, say that it's possible to make changes to the EU then why I would I not believe them but rather a guy on the internet who says it's not possible? And again, I don't see why it couldn't be possible to change a political system.

You don't have to answer my question, I was just curious because the EU has done a lot of good things as well, yet I haven't seen many Eurosceptics like yourself admit to that.

I live in a former mining/fishing area and the EU destroyed our fisheries through the Common Fisheries Policy, so there is not really much to admire I'm afraid. Thatcher destroyed the coal mines and the EU destroyed the fishing industry: between the two of them they did a ''real number'' on my area, reducing it to an aging derelict ghost town.

I have never seen anything of ''the European Union'' here - we must be the forgotten corner? Not many go to university so you can remove the Erasmus scheme from the equation. There is literally no incentive to support the EU where I live. If you are going to engender loyalty to an institution you have to throw people an occasional carrot. If we received the type of riches the Rhineland or London received we perhaps would feel differently.

So my UK constituency voted leave 60.49% and my Euro constituency (North East England) voted unambiguously Brexit parties 44.9% which is well up on the national average. The latter vote actually made North East England the biggest Brexit constituency bar none.

Edited May 29, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[EvanG]

8 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I live in a former mining/fishing area and the EU destroyed our fisheries through the Common Fisheries Policy, so there is not really much to admire I'm afraid. Thatcher destroyed the coal mines and the EU destroyed the fishing industry: between the two of them they did a ''real number'' on my area, reducing it to an aging derelict ghost town.

I have never seen anything of ''the European Union'' here - we must be the forgotten corner? Not many go to university so you can remove the Erasmus scheme from the equation. There is literally no incentive to support the EU where I live. If you are going to engender loyalty to an institution you have to throw people an occasional carrot. If we received the type of riches the Rhineland or London received we perhaps would feel differently.

So my UK constituency voted leave 60.49% and my Euro constituency (North East England) voted unambiguously Brexit parties 44.9% which is well up on the national average. The latter vote actually made North East England the biggest Brexit constituency bar none.

On a personal level my life hasn't been affected by the EU a lot. I live in a border region, so there are more jobs because of international companies that are located here, and I suppose I find the Euro handy because both Germany and Belgium are a ten minute drive away, and now I don't have to deal with strange currency anymore when I go there, but I wouldn't call that very significant on a personal level, and other than that... I don't think my life would be much different had the EU not existed. But I'm able to look past my environment and personal situation and able to see how other countries and people have benefited greatly from the EU and I can see other advantages the EU offers. But I can also see what's not good about it but I like to think it can improve and become better.

[SoulMonster]

The EU has changed. It is not the same organization today as it was 20 years ago, or five years ago. It changes through treatises and democratic processes. In theory as long as its members agree it can change in any which way you can imagine. So arguing that the EU is some permanent, immovable, inert thing is plainly wrong. If so it wouldn't have undergone this evolution that we have seen. So the question isn't whether it can change, but whether it is likely to be changed to Diesel's liking, and the answer to that is probably 'no' as long as he seems to want nothing but a reversal of time back to a time when Britain was Great.  

[DieselDaisy]

32 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

The EU has changed. It is not the same organization today as it was 20 years ago, or five years ago. It changes through treatises and democratic processes. In theory as long as its members agree it can change in any which way you can imagine. So arguing that the EU is some permanent, immovable, inert thing is plainly wrong. If so it wouldn't have undergone this evolution that we have seen. So the question isn't whether it can change, but whether it is likely to be changed to Diesel's liking, and the answer to that is probably 'no' as long as he seems to want nothing but a reversal of time back to a time when Britain was Great.  

More intergovernmental process I feel.

You are correct in that it has changed throughout its history. Most realist/soft-sceptics would prefer the European Union to return to the Communities, before Maastricht (1992) or even the Single Act (1986-7) - certainly before the horrors of Lisbon (2007-09). You have to understand that the main target for continental soft-Eurosceptics post-Brexit has been not the EU per se but the Eurozone, and that EMU was only formulated 1999 - adopted thereafter by member states. Even Le Pen swerves away from full-blooded Frexit, at least beyond a ''French referendum'' stage, and more towards an assault on monetary union - the Greek Debt Crisis is all the evidence they require. 

British Euroscepticism did not possess the Euro from which to unravel her relationship with the EU (whether they wanted to go that far or not?); British critics could only go for the jugular. And post-2008 even the majority of pro-EU British politicians admit, keeping the United Kingdom out of the EMU was the best decision Gordon Brown ever did! 

The next bold move for all Euro-federalists is fiscal union of course.

The rest of your post, insults directed at me (''a reversal of time back to a time when Britain was Great''), merely shows you are well versed in Britain's remainer tripe. 

1 hour ago, EvanG said:

On a personal level my life hasn't been affected by the EU a lot. I live in a border region, so there are more jobs because of international companies that are located here, and I suppose I find the Euro handy because both Germany and Belgium are a ten minute drive away, and now I don't have to deal with strange currency anymore when I go there, but I wouldn't call that very significant on a personal level, and other than that... I don't think my life would be much different had the EU not existed. But I'm able to look past my environment and personal situation and able to see how other countries and people have benefited greatly from the EU and I can see other advantages the EU offers. But I can also see what's not good about it but I like to think it can improve and become better.

So am I which is why I despair of the treatment of Greece and Italy, which are (and coincidentally) about my two favourite countries in the world. 

Edited May 29, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[EvanG]

26 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

So am I which is why I despair of the treatment of Greece and Italy, which are (and coincidentally) about my two favourite countries in the world. 

I guess this illustrates the difference between me and you. I can also look at the positive.

[Dazey]

34 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I despair of the treatment of Greece and Italy, which are (and coincidentally) about my two favourite countries in the world. 

Didn’t you win a free luxury Greek holiday a while back and then spend the next six months pissing and moaning about how awful the whole experience was?  

Edited May 29, 2019 by Dazey

[Dazey]

6 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I guess this illustrates the difference between me and you. I can also look at the positive.

I’m from the same part of the UK as Dies’ and I moved away because they’re all a bunch of miserable inbred bastards up there.  

[DieselDaisy]

3 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Didn’t you win a free luxury Greek holiday a while back and then spend the next six months pissing and moaning about how awful the whole experience was?  

That was because I was stuck on a bloody health spa full of the type of posh gits who would support the EU. 

[Dazey]

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

That was because I was stuck on a bloody health spa full of the type of posh gits who would support the EU. 

I would literally spend all day with a good book getting pissed by the pool. What’s not to like?

[EvanG]

1 minute ago, Dazey said:

I’m from the same part of the UK as Dies’ and I moved away because they’re all a bunch of miserable inbred bastards up there.  

I have only driven through that area when I took a bus trip from London to Edinburgh. It stopped in Newcastle and I got out to stretch my legs and I noticed a strange odour in the air and I couldn't wait to get back in the bus.

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Dazey said:

I would literally spend all day with a good book getting pissed by the pool. What’s not to like?

You mean The Viz?

Hotel full of rich fat Germans and Americans getting the Greeks to wipe their arse for them. People, blokes, walking around in a dressing gown having had a ''back, sack and crack''. I was the only one drinking beer. Everyone else was drinking pretentious cocktails. For being Crete, and the scenery beautiful, there was actually very little Greek - you know, authentically Mediterranean? - about the experience. One of these hideous Americanized (Vegas-esque) monstrosities built in the middle of nowhere.

The town was lovely but I could only reach it by a 20 (each way) Euro taxi ride! That was the authentic Greece. Lovely little town really. 

[Dazey]

13 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I have only driven through that area when I took a bus trip from London to Edinburgh. It stopped in Newcastle and I got out to stretch my legs and I noticed a strange odour in the air and I couldn't wait to get back in the bus.

 

To be fair I actually like Newcastle. There’s just not a lot else in the surrounding area. 

That said, if you struggled with Newcastle you should try Middlesbrough or Redcar where I’m from. You’d need therapy for years to come.  

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/business/2019/may/29/redcar-how-the-end-of-steel-left-a-tragic-legacy-in-a-proud-town

Edited May 29, 2019 by Dazey

[DieselDaisy]

6 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I have only driven through that area when I took a bus trip from London to Edinburgh. It stopped in Newcastle and I got out to stretch my legs and I noticed a strange odour in the air and I couldn't wait to get back in the bus.

Newcastle actually voted remain in 2016. It is fairly modern and liberal really - a bit la-di-da in areas. It used to have this grimy working class reputation but not so much now. It even has Euro markets. You could meet up with your fellow Europeans there and converse about your mutual love of camp pop music, effeminacy and all of the invasions you've endured over the ages.  

4 minutes ago, Dazey said:

 

To be fair I actually like Newcastle. There’s just not a lot else in the surrounding area. 

That said, if you struggled with Newcastle you should try Middlesbrough where I’m from. You’d need therapy for years to come.  

Do you know anything about Hartlepool, which is Durham but closer to 'Boro? My friend says it has literally the most scenic and welcoming cricket ground ever ever ever. Our seconds keep playing there. I must go.

[Dazey]

11 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Do you know anything about Hartlepool, which is Durham but closer to 'Boro? My friend says it has literally the most scenic and welcoming cricket ground ever ever ever. Our seconds keep playing there. I must go.

Hartlepool is just across the shipping lane from Redcar. I know it well. It’s most famous for the locals hanging a monkey during the Napoleonic wars based on the assumption that it must have been a French spy.  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_hanger

My mate Mark the Racist from Uni was from Hartlepool. The last time I went with him on a night out there we almost spit roasted a midget.  

Edited May 29, 2019 by Dazey

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, Dazey said:

Hartlepool is just across the shipping lane from Redcar. I know it well. It’s most famous for the locals hanging a monkey during the Napoleonic wars based on the assumption that it must have been a French spy.  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monkey_hanger

My mate Mark the Racist from Uni was from Hartlepool. The last time I went with him on a night out there we almost spit roasted a midget.  

All I know is they give you a free lunch at the cc there. I'll let you know when I go and whether or not I have any liaison with any midgets. 

[Dazey]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

All I know is they give you a free lunch at the cc there. I'll let you know when I go and whether or not I have any liaison with any midgets. 

They also had a mascot at Hartlepool FC called Hangus the Monkey. He ran for mayor as a joke on a policy of free bananas for all. He won and served three full terms.  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Drummond

[DieselDaisy]

5 minutes ago, Dazey said:

They also had a mascot at Hartlepool FC called Hangus the Monkey. He ran for mayor as a joke on a policy of free bananas for all. He won and served three full terms.  

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuart_Drummond

If you ignore those ships and that shit behind, this looks like a picture postcard seaside town,

[Dazey]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

If you ignore those ships and that shit behind, this looks like a picture postcard seaside town,

The thing about the north east coast is that you can stand on the same beach and see a completely different scene by looking left and right. If you go to Redcar and look right you see nothing but golden sands and rolling hills. 

Look left and you see this. 

[DieselDaisy]

7 minutes ago, Dazey said:

The thing about the north east coast is that you can stand on the same beach and see a completely different scene by looking left and right. If you go to Redcar and look right you see nothing but golden sands and rolling hills. 

Look left and you see this. 

Apparently, it used to be a bit of a Victorian pleasure resort, Redcar, before they built all of that shit there. 

[Dazey]

7 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Apparently, it used to be a bit of a Victorian pleasure resort, Redcar, before they built all of that shit there. 

I’ve actually always liked the industry. Makes me feel at home. 

[Len Cnut]

14 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I live in a former mining/fishing area and the EU destroyed our fisheries through the Common Fisheries Policy, so there is not really much to admire I'm afraid. Thatcher destroyed the coal mines and the EU destroyed the fishing industry: between the two of them they did a ''real number'' on my area, reducing it to an aging derelict ghost town.

I have never seen anything of ''the European Union'' here - we must be the forgotten corner? Not many go to university so you can remove the Erasmus scheme from the equation. There is literally no incentive to support the EU where I live. If you are going to engender loyalty to an institution you have to throw people an occasional carrot. If we received the type of riches the Rhineland or London received we perhaps would feel differently.

The sad fact is Dies' no one gives a fuck about all of that.  There is a prevalent political theory in this country that as long as Londons doing well i.e. the money keeps rolling into the banks from all four corners thats England doing well economically, industry in this country is not really cared for and the further north you go the less anyone gives a monkeys.  And yeah, its wrong but right or wrong doesn't really have anything to do with it, its a pretty cold blooded thing. 

You have to have a heart and/or be from this country to care about the sort of things that you're talking about, people from Europe don't give a fuck for mining and fishing in England, the people that suffer from those things are considered collateral damage, England is as important as the economic benefit it can offer Europe at large, no one gives a shit about the rest and that, to me, is part of the problem with these big centralised government type thingies. 

Edited May 30, 2019 by Len Cnut

[SoulMonster]

If the coal and fishing industries of England were competitive they would have survived. If it rarely the politicians' or governments' fault when an industry or factory becomes outdated or is not cost-efficient enough. The budgets are limited and no politician should take away money from other priorities, like healthcare or infrastructure or innovation, to subsidize industries that are doomed and failing just to be kind to people and regions who would otherwise have to adapt to new circumstances.