The UFO thread

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

37 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

According to some of the reports, some of the "technology" has already been given to and/or found by the private sector, so I wouldn't see a reason for them "not to" let the scientific community take a look at it.  (Good chance members of the scientific community have already been studying it...possibly for some time). 

 

*If any of this is true or it is what we think it could be. 

 

I would venture to say that's exactly what contractors such as Eric Davis have been doing. The NYT had other other people give them info but they aren't on the record yet. I'm guessing Davis is just the first of many people who will be speaking on record about this.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Basic_GnR_Fan

[Ace Nova]

37 minutes ago, soon said:

You have to see it! John Candy in the lead. I cant think of the lead female name, but shes classic too. John Cleese cameo. Its so good!

Im not an anarchist, I just know what the definition is.  I advocate for tax and spend dem soc. So Im not sure how you've developed your analysis of my position?

I dont assume the private sector gets murky. That is based on established fact. And its a simple as their discovery is their IP. They owe share holders, not the good of humanity and discovery.

My suggestion wasnt to leave it in the govs hands, you seem to be working on that misunderstanding here. I said it should be opened up to public exploration. Public sector being a third entity beyond private sector and gov. 

 

*private sector being secretive aerospace defence contractors, for the uses in the convo so far, to be clear.

** the private sector is part of the establishment 

Ok, fair enough.  

 

(For an anarchist, anyway. )  

 

 

 

[SoulMonster]

15 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

Well, then not only has he fooled the DOD but he has pulled the wool over the eyes of the NYT. An impressive feat to fool everyone like he has...or we can just believe the guy is credible and not a crackpot. Occam's razor tells me he's credible.

I don't know if he has fooled NYT. It is not like NYT has stated that there is material from outer space, they are just repeating his claims in the larger context of publishing a story on the ongoing UFO project. Or am I mistaken?

 

15 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

The DOD doesn't even have to mention aliens or disclose other (as of now) secret programs though. All they have to do is release the radar tapes from these incidents and people could then analyze the underlying data picked up on the craft and compare it with witness statements and the released videos. And the Nimitz incident was from 2004. So the excuse that releasing radar tapes from an incident 16 years ago is going to harm National Security is spurious in my opinion.

I don't know anything about radar tapes. Sorry! But if you are correct, and they possess additional evidence that would debunk the idea that the aircrafts observed couldn't be man-made, or would confirm that they were, then yes, of course they should release these stand-alone radar data.

13 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

Now this isn't a smoking gun and I'm not claiming it is. I'm just further making my case. The idea that what these pilots saw was just some benign thing doesn't jive with Senators receiving briefings from the military stating that they are taking it seriously. There's something more than encountering regular aircraft, seagulls, or canopy reflections going on.

This brings me to another more likely scenario than aliens: That whatever observed was made by another nation. Again, not likely at all, but in the choice between aliens and something not likely, I would pick the "not likely".

[SoulMonster]

To quickly summarize. Four possible scenarios:

1. The observations are wrong and a result of instrument/software malfunction, misinterpretation (common aircraft, clouds, aerial device), the parallax effect or other observational illusions.

2. It is a hoax. People are lying about what they have seen.

3. It is real but the aircrafts observed belong to a foreign nation.

4. It is real and the aircrafts are from outer space.

I have ranked them according to how likely I find each scenario, with the first first being the most likely and the fourth the least. Again, I am not saying that any of these are likely, but unlikely things happen all the time. 

[soon]

Lazar saying that the seats and controls were designed for a being smaller than average human is interesting though.

But once again, it falls short of proof of ET. Because what if humans developed a technology that can fly in ways that the human body cant handle so they engineered cyborgs who could withstand the Gs. And that explains the harsh government secrecy because I think lots of people would be very upset to learn such a thing. And people may indeed have witnessed these cyborgs and believed them to be alien.

[Ace Nova]

3 minutes ago, soon said:

Lazar saying that the seats and controls were designed for a being smaller than average human is interesting though.

But once again, it falls short of proof of ET. Because what if humans developed a technology that can fly in ways that the human body cant handle so they engineered cyborgs who could withstand the Gs. And that explains the harsh government secrecy because I think lots of people would be very upset to learn such a thing. And people may indeed have witnessed these cyborgs and believed them to be alien.

Hmm...interesting theory...never really thought of that. 

[soon]

22 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

Hmm...interesting theory...never really thought of that. 

Hehe! I love it 

Fine line between science fiction and sound hypothesis, I guess? Im just having fun with the process! lol

Too much Prequel era and jars of Snokes on my mind? 

Edited August 1, 2020 by soon

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

9 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I don't know if he has fooled NYT. It is not like NYT has stated that there is material from outer space, they are just repeating his claims in the larger context of publishing a story on the ongoing UFO project. Or am I mistaken?

 

Ralph Blumenthal, one of the NYT authors, has stated they find him very credible and he noted how many layers of editors the article had to go through. I'm going to assume they really vetted Davis to be printing "off world vehicles" in the NYT. That's a bold claim to make, especially in this hyper political climate.

 

Quote

I don't know anything about radar tapes. Sorry! But if you are correct, and they possess additional evidence that would debunk the idea that the aircrafts observed couldn't be man-made, or would confirm that they were, then yes, of course they should release these stand-alone radar data.

In the Nimitz incident in 2004 the radar operators on the ship were tracking these 'tic tac' like objects over several days and told Dave Fravor and the other pilots with him on his exercise to try and intercept one of these things. That's what led to the encounter they had. It was the crew that went up right after Fravor who actually got the video. So we're talking about radar crews and multiple fighter pilot groups seeing this thing. Now I can see why the DOD wouldn't want to release recent radar tapes for National Security purposes, but from an incident in 2004, I think it's time for us to be able to see that because I'm assuming Russia and China already have radar technology better than what we had in 2004.

 

Quote

This brings me to another more likely scenario than aliens: That whatever observed was made by another nation. Again, not likely at all, but in the choice between aliens and something not likely, I would pick the "not likely".

Since we don't have enough data, we have to keep an open mind that another nation other than the US has made a revolutionary breakthrough in technology. My intuition tells no for the simple that fact that, let's say this was Russia or China. Wouldn't they be using this technology to essentially dominate the skies and rule the planet? In the 16 years since the Nimitz, why haven't they deployed these vehicles against the US (for Russia they could have used these things in Syria or for China in the South Pacific)?

 

Edited August 1, 2020 by Basic_GnR_Fan

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

9 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

To quickly summarize. Four possible scenarios:

1. The observations are wrong and a result of instrument/software malfunction, misinterpretation (common aircraft, clouds, aerial device), the parallax effect or other observational illusions.

2. It is a hoax. People are lying about what they have seen.

3. It is real but the aircrafts observed belong to a foreign nation.

4. It is real and the aircrafts are from outer space.

I have ranked them according to how likely I find each scenario, with the first first being the most likely and the fourth the least. Again, I am not saying that any of these are likely, but unlikely things happen all the time. 

I would agree with this ranking, and I think by far most incidents fall into the first 3 categories. I don't want to overstate my case. I'm only saying in very rare cases (such as the incidents that the New York Times has been talking about) can we start to realistically consider option 4.

[EvanG]

I don't believe in a hoax anymore regarding these sightings.

[soon]

I dont know why anyone would waste time explaining the situation to someone who repeatedly makes clear that they havent even bothered to read the facts. A person who thinks their subscription to Sceptics Magazine as a teenager is all they required to be prepared to engage in complex issues. Again, without looking up the facts. 

[EvanG]

11 minutes ago, soon said:

I dont know why anyone would waste time explaining the situation to someone who repeatedly makes clear that they havent even bothered to read the facts. A person who thinks their subscription to Sceptics Magazine as a teenager is all they required to be prepared to engage in complex issues. Again, without looking up the facts. 

Have you watched the Lazar documentary already on Netflix? If so, what did you think?

[soon]

5 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Have you watched the Lazar documentary already on Netflix? If so, what did you think?

Thats the Jermey Corbell (spl?) one? If so, yeah Ive seen that and thought Lazar was as credible as always. I prolly watched as soon as it came out so I should also watch it again. Its the only time Ive seen the entire Lazar arch told in one narrative, so that was really cool!

What did you think?

 

[EvanG]

6 minutes ago, soon said:

Thats the Jermey Corbell (spl?) one? If so, yeah Ive seen that and thought Lazar was as credible as always. I prolly watched as soon as it came out so I should also watch it again. Its the only time Ive seen the entire Lazar arch told in one narrative, so that was really cool!

What did you think?

 

Oh, I thought you hadn't seen it yet when we talked about it earlier and I told you about it, but doesn't matter. Yeah, I thought it was interesting and I believe him. If he's full of shit and not someone to be taken seriously, why would the FBI raid him with such a huge team during the making of that documentary? Makes no sense. Now, whether he worked on a man-made or extraterrestrial craft, I don't know, your guess is as good as mine.

Edited August 1, 2020 by EvanG

[soon]

5 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Oh, I thought you hadn't seen it yet when we talked about it earlier and I told you about it, but doesn't matter. Yeah, I thought it was interesting and I believe him. If he's full of shit and not someone to be taken seriously, why would the FBI raid him with such a huge team during the making of that documentary? Makes no sense. Now, whether her worked on a man-made or extraterrestrial craft, I don't know, your guess is as good as mine.

Oh, sorry for my confusion. I think I got caught up on the fact that you mentioned a doc was narrated by Mickey Rourke. I didnt realize this film was narrated by Rourke, so I figured there was a different doc as well. But whats silly is that I dont know his voice. So why would I assume it wasnt him narrating? . But yeah, anyways,

I forgot about that raid!! Thats right! 

I also remember noting how simple his life and income seemed to be. Dudes not after fortune and fame by the looks of it.

I think I might check it out again tonight 

 

 

[soon]

Started re watch. Okay if I ever text you "FBI Raid Now" Do not text back "Are you Serious?!?!" and then follow that with "WTF?!?!" Try instead 'Are you okay? Whats your lawyers contact?" 

[EvanG]

1 hour ago, soon said:

 

I also remember noting how simple his life and income seemed to be. Dudes not after fortune and fame by the looks of it

 

 

Nope, he didn’t want to be paid for the documentary nor did he want to do it in the first place.

[soon]

On August 1, 2020 at 8:21 PM, EvanG said:

Nope, he didn’t want to be paid for the documentary nor did he want to do it in the first place.

Actually, one thing contradicts my statement though: Bob Lazar was once convicted of pimping!!! 

[EvanG]

7 minutes ago, soon said:

Actually, one thing contradicts my statement though: Bob Lazar was once convicted of pimping!!! 

Yeah, what was that all about? Was he actually pimping or was it something else?

[Ace Nova]

31 minutes ago, soon said:

Actually, one thing contradicts my statement though: Bob Lazar was once convicted of pimping!!! 

It's really a shame he resorted to that (or fell into it, etc) because that's one of the main reasons most in the MSM dismiss him and/or his statements.

 

[soon]

16 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Yeah, what was that all about? Was he actually pimping or was it something else?

The reporter from back in the day, Knapp, described it this way,

‘Lazar tells me he’s trying to set up a brothel with some hookers.... he thought it was hilarious.’

Then on the charges, I missed one key word,

”We didn’t have _______ laws in those days so he was charged with philandering, a misdemeanor.” 

Iirc there are legal brothels in parts of Nevada today. So possibly the word I missed related to those legal brothels(?).

Sounded like pimping to me!

I also loved the old footage of him shooting an uzi in the desert!  

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

5 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

It's really a shame he resorted to that (or fell into it, etc) because that's one of the main reasons most in the MSM dismiss him and/or his statements.

 

As a lot of people have hypothesized, Lazar was the perfect guy for them to (allegedly) have out at S-4. A smart but off-the-wall guy that thinks outside the box and can maybe help them figure some things out, but he's also into some borderline illegal stuff so he could be easily discredited. Perfect hire for a special project like that.

[soon]

So bougie because there’s nothing mutually exclusive about running a brothel and being credible. 

I was once accidentally a pimp for a few weeks and I’m still credible.  

[EvanG]

33 minutes ago, soon said:

The reporter from back in the day, Knapp, described it this way,

‘Lazar tells me he’s trying to set up a brothel with some hookers.... he thought it was hilarious.’

Then on the charges, I missed one key word,

”We didn’t have _______ laws in those days so he was charged with philandering, a misdemeanor.” 

Iirc there are legal brothels in parts of Nevada today. So possibly the word I missed related to those legal brothels(?).

Sounded like pimping to me!

I also loved the old footage of him shooting an uzi in the desert!  

Maybe he was pimping sexy alien species and couldn't pass up on that because that must be a lucrative business?

In all seriousness, maybe he was trying to look out for prostitutes so they didn't have to turn tricks on the street or he's just a sleazeball? Either way, it doesn't really take anything away from his story.

 

23 minutes ago, soon said:

I was once accidentally a pimp for a few weeks and I’m still credible.  

Really?! Do tell...

[Ace Nova]

43 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

As a lot of people have hypothesized, Lazar was the perfect guy for them to (allegedly) have out at S-4. A smart but off-the-wall guy that thinks outside the box and can maybe help them figure some things out, but he's also into some borderline illegal stuff so he could be easily discredited. Perfect hire for a special project like that.

Although that could have some truth to it; from my understanding, the main reason they hired him is because they thought he was at a "near genius/genius" level when it came to engineering and they believed he had an "open mind" in being able to create/engineer things by "thinking outside the box".  (Most trained engineers have a very difficult time thinking that way, from my understanding). 

That rocket car he created, essentially from scratch, was almost unheard of at the time...specifically since he was basically a "kid" when he created it.  It would have taken a trained team of engineers (possibly) years to make something of the sort back then. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Kasanova King