The UFO thread

[SoulMonster]

46 minutes ago, soon said:

Another guess regarding distance travelled could be that they are nomadic and it did take them 1000s of generations travelling at unimaginable speeds to cross our path and now they hang out in this region.

Well, if they can travel near the speed of light then time will slow down due to dilation and this might not be such a big problem. Or they could simply travel at "normal speeds" but live infinitely, or have extreme life spans. Still, travelling at the speed of light might not be theoretically possible (we don't know, all we have are theories that can barely be tested) and the latter, that in a universe where there might be only one intelligent life form per galaxy someone would start travelling towards our solar system among the billions in the milky way some hundred thousand years ago, is highly implausible.

[Ace Nova]

11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Yes, but I didn't dismiss anything. What I wrote was that when we consider the plausibility of alien visiting earth we have to accept that it isn't simply a matter of having more advanced technology than us, but having so advanced technology that they might have dealt with physical barriers regarding travelling at speed faster than light. The former is trivial, the latter isn't. So it isn't just a matter of them being more advanced than us, they might have to be more advanced than the physical laws themselves. Again, I am not dismissing the possibility of intergalactic travel, but I am trying to put some emphasis on a point that should substantially lower our beliefs in aliens visiting earth. And I am not saying we should conclude on this basis alone that we haven't been visited, but if we haven't taken this into account before we should definitely be less convinced now.

What if the Pentagon issued a press release stating this is what we found...

 

...it's not anything we have the capability of making nor is it something that Russia, China or anyone else on the planet can make.  It uses anti-gravity technology and seems to be able to bend space-time. 

 

What would your immediate reaction be?

 

[EvanG]

16 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Yes, but I didn't dismiss anything. What I wrote was that when we consider the plausibility of alien visiting earth we have to accept that it isn't simply a matter of having more advanced technology than us, but having so advanced technology that they might have dealt with physical barriers regarding travelling at speed faster than light. The former is trivial, the latter isn't. So it isn't just a matter of them being more advanced than us, they might have to be more advanced than the physical laws themselves. Again, I am not dismissing the possibility of intergalactic travel, but I am trying to put some emphasis on a point that should substantially lower our beliefs in aliens visiting earth. And I am not saying we should conclude on this basis alone that we haven't been visited, but if we haven't taken this into account before we should definitely be less convinced now.

It's what Basic_GnR_Fan said in his last post,

Quote

Yes, we all have to abide by the laws of nature, but who says we have a complete understanding of the laws of nature...we can't possibly since there's so much we don't understand about the universe yet.

Isn't it possible that they have found some kind of loophole, for a lack of a better word? Something that we can't grasp yet? There is probably still so much that we don't know regarding science and all of this. I don't think that they are travelling in their little spaceship for years just to visit our little, insignificant planet for a few hours and then be on their way home again. But I understand what you're saying and you obviously have a point.

Edited July 29, 2020 by EvanG

[soon]

3 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Well, if they can travel near the speed of light then time will slow down due to dilation and this might not be such a big problem. Or they could simply travel at "normal speeds" but live infinitely, or have extreme life spans. Still, travelling at the speed of light might not be theoretically possible (we don't know, all we have are theories that can barely be tested) and the latter, that in a universe where there might be only one intelligent life form per galaxy someone would start travelling towards our solar system among the billions in the milky way some hundred thousand years ago, is highly implausible.

Youre making some assumptions about why they would be nomadic / why theyd head this way. I also never mentioned Light Speed.

[Rovim]

maybe it's like winning the lottery and we're the only ones who won. It's easy to believe that we are alone. On the other hand, I went to see Independence Day with my dad in '96 so I'd like to think the universe is big enough to contain at least one other intelligent lifeform or at least as intelligent as Will Smith.

I don't believe anyone has ever encountered aliens or saw a real ufo. All those conspiracy theories seems silly.

I wish we could build a spaceship that is big enough to carry enough fuel to explore more interesting shit than the fuckin' moon so at least we'll find another planet that is hospitable for humans but can't see that happening.

[SoulMonster]

12 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

What if the Pentagon issued a press release stating this is what we found...

 

...it's not anything we have the capability of making nor is it something that Russia, China or anyone else on the planet can make.  It uses anti-gravity technology and seems to be able to bend space-time. 

What would your immediate reaction be?

You make it sound like you think this is a plausible theory 

I would be exhilarated beyond comparison. 

16 minutes ago, EvanG said:

It's what Basic_GnR_Fan said in his last post,

Isn't it possible that they have found some kind of loophole, for a lack of a better word? Something that we can't grasp yet? There is probably still so much that we don't know regarding science and all of this. I don't think that they are travelling in their little spaceship for years just to visit our little, insignificant planet for a few hours and then be on their way home again. But I understand what you're saying and you obviously have a point.

Yes, of course it is possible and I have said as much. My point, again, isn't to dismiss the possibility, but reflect a bit on the probability. 

[Ace Nova]

9 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

You make it sound like you think this is a plausible theory 

I would be exhilarated beyond comparison. 

I'm not saying it's plausible or even probable but that's (pretty much) what the NY Times articles have been alluding to.  This is (more or less) what they think the Pentagon will begin to disclose to the public.

 

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

17 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Yes, of course it is possible and I have said as much. My point, again, isn't to dismiss the possibility, but reflect a bit on the probability. 

The probability of two intelligent beings from different planets meeting eachother is very low, yes. But just because the odds of something occurring are low, doesn't mean impossible. For example, we exist, and the odds of us existing are low.

This isn't about spitballing theories back at eachother. We now have good but incomplete documentation of encounters between military pilots and what seem to be extremely advanced aircraft. The low probability of two intelligent beings from different planets (or worlds or dimensions or whatever) may be occurring. The DOD, who has access to all the data (full video, testimony, radar) still officially lists these occurrences (and there are reports of far more) as unidentified and unknown The odds of these being hallucination, seagulls, or canopy reflections is dropping and the odds of this being an intelligently maneuvered craft of some sort is rising.

Edit: What's your gut say these encounters actually are? Spitball with us for a second, we're on a guns n roses message board for God's sake, loosen up!

Edited July 29, 2020 by Basic_GnR_Fan

[EvanG]

40 minutes ago, Rovim said:

It's easy to believe that we are alone.

It's easy to believe that we're not alone when you can grasp how vast the universe is. 

[EvanG]

Just now, Rovim said:

I respect your wish for me to not converse with you, please show me the same courtesy, thanks.

What are you talking about?

[EvanG]

1 minute ago, Rovim said:

moving on now. UFO's and shit.

What are you talking about? Me wishing not to converse with you?

[soon]

1 hour ago, EvanG said:

I think he was pretty convinced that it wasn't real. Have you seen his documentary? If you haven't, you should check it out. It's not a great documentary, I mean, it has fucking Mickey Rourke as the narrator, he's half an alien himself, but it's good enough to hear what Lazar has to say.

I thought Id consumed al the Lazar stuff and watched a documentary with some other bear as the host. But I guess I missed this. Thanks, will check it out.

As for the other thing, its news to me too. Had a similar thing happen to me a few months ago with someone else on here, so I can imagine the feeling. Maybe theres thing we forgot about or major miscommunications we didnt pick up on? 

[EvanG]

2 minutes ago, soon said:

I thought Id consumed al the Lazar stuff and watched a documentary with some other bear as the host. But I guess I missed this. Thanks, will check it out.

As for the other thing, its news to me too. Had a similar thing happen to me a few months ago with someone else on here, so I can imagine the feeling. Maybe theres thing we forgot about or major miscommunications we didnt pick up on? 

If you're already familiar with his story then this documentary probably doesn't bring anything new, I guess that's also the criticism it received, so if you're already well informed about Lazar then it might be a waste of time, though!

(And yeah, I probably made some comment to said user a long time ago, but I don't take it all too seriously, so I don't remember shit I posted ages ago!)

[soon]

1 hour ago, EvanG said:

If you're already familiar with his story then this documentary probably doesn't bring anything new, I guess that's also the criticism it received, so if you're already well informed about Lazar then it might be a waste of time, though!

Nah, I should bone up, since I couldn't recall what he said about seeing the dummy. Im into this enough to want to be sharp during whats shaping up to be a very exciting time! Im glad you mentioned it!

Im not re-watching Toe Rogain though! lol

[SoulMonster]

8 hours ago, Kasanova King said:

I'm not saying it's plausible or even probable but that's (pretty much) what the NY Times articles have been alluding to.  This is (more or less) what they think the Pentagon will begin to disclose to the public.

I think I read the NYT article too, and I didn't get the impression that they would soon publish a new article claiming that we have been visited by aliens using anti-gravity technology and the ability to travel using bending of space-time. At all.

[SoulMonster]

8 hours ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

The probability of two intelligent beings from different planets meeting eachother is very low, yes. But just because the odds of something occurring are low, doesn't mean impossible. For example, we exist, and the odds of us existing are low.

This isn't about spitballing theories back at eachother. We now have good but incomplete documentation of encounters between military pilots and what seem to be extremely advanced aircraft. The low probability of two intelligent beings from different planets (or worlds or dimensions or whatever) may be occurring. The DOD, who has access to all the data (full video, testimony, radar) still officially lists these occurrences (and there are reports of far more) as unidentified and unknown The odds of these being hallucination, seagulls, or canopy reflections is dropping and the odds of this being an intelligently maneuvered craft of some sort is rising.

Edit: What's your gut say these encounters actually are? Spitball with us for a second, we're on a guns n roses message board for God's sake, loosen up!

I only know the encounters from having briefly read about them here - I haven't seen any videos. But anyway, I find it much more likely that someone is lying or exaggerating what they have seen, and that in reality what has been observed is either not as remarkable as stated or that it is more advanced but still human-made, than that we have been visited by aliens.

[action]

if you can split atoms, you can also change gravity. 

[Ace Nova]

8 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

I think I read the NYT article too, and I didn't get the impression that they would soon publish a new article claiming that we have been visited by aliens using anti-gravity technology and the ability to travel using bending of space-time. At all.

While retired officials involved with the effort — including Harry Reid, the former Senate majority leader — hope the program will seek evidence of vehicles from other worlds, its main focus is on discovering whether another nation, especially any potential adversary, is using breakout aviation technology that could threaten the United States.

 

Mr. Elizondo is among a small group of former government officials and scientists with security clearances who, without presenting physical proof, say they are convinced that objects of undetermined origin have crashed on earth with materials retrieved for study.

 

 

Mr. Reid, the former Democratic senator from Nevada who pushed for funding the earlier U.F.O. program when he was the majority leader, said he believed that crashes of objects of unknown origin may have occurred and that retrieved materials should be studied.

“After looking into this, I came to the conclusion that there were reports — some were substantive, some not so substantive — that there were actual materials that the government and the private sector had in their possession,” Mr. Reid said in an interview.

 

Eric W. Davis, an astrophysicist who worked as a subcontractor and then a consultant for the Pentagon U.F.O. program since 2007, said that, in some cases, examination of the materials had so far failed to determine their source and led him to conclude, “We couldn’t make it ourselves.

 

Mr. Davis, who now works for Aerospace Corporation, a defense contractor, said he gave a classified briefing to a Defense Department agency as recently as March about retrievals from “off-world vehicles not made on this earth.”

 

What was strange, the pilots said, was that the video showed objects accelerating to hypersonic speed, making sudden stops and instantaneous turns — something beyond the physical limits of a human crew.

 

 

On Monday, the Pentagon released three Navy videos that have driven speculation about unidentified flying objects for years, saying it meant to “clear up any misconceptions” about whether the unclassified footage was real or complete.

It’s real, the Pentagon said, including links so the curious could download the footage for themselves.

 

 

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

1 hour ago, Kasanova King said:

While retired officials involved with the effort — including Harry Reid, the former Senate majority leader — hope the program will seek evidence of vehicles from other worlds, its main focus is on discovering whether another nation, especially any potential adversary, is using breakout aviation technology that could threaten the United States.

 

Mr. Elizondo is among a small group of former government officials and scientists with security clearances who, without presenting physical proof, say they are convinced that objects of undetermined origin have crashed on earth with materials retrieved for study.

 

 

Mr. Reid, the former Democratic senator from Nevada who pushed for funding the earlier U.F.O. program when he was the majority leader, said he believed that crashes of objects of unknown origin may have occurred and that retrieved materials should be studied.

“After looking into this, I came to the conclusion that there were reports — some were substantive, some not so substantive — that there were actual materials that the government and the private sector had in their possession,” Mr. Reid said in an interview.

 

Eric W. Davis, an astrophysicist who worked as a subcontractor and then a consultant for the Pentagon U.F.O. program since 2007, said that, in some cases, examination of the materials had so far failed to determine their source and led him to conclude, “We couldn’t make it ourselves.

 

Mr. Davis, who now works for Aerospace Corporation, a defense contractor, said he gave a classified briefing to a Defense Department agency as recently as March about retrievals from “off-world vehicles not made on this earth.”

 

What was strange, the pilots said, was that the video showed objects accelerating to hypersonic speed, making sudden stops and instantaneous turns — something beyond the physical limits of a human crew.

 

 

On Monday, the Pentagon released three Navy videos that have driven speculation about unidentified flying objects for years, saying it meant to “clear up any misconceptions” about whether the unclassified footage was real or complete.

It’s real, the Pentagon said, including links so the curious could download the footage for themselves.

 

 

The thing that has me intrigued is the guys who have seen classified materials such as Elizondo, Davis, and others that talked to the New York Times but aren't on the record yet, say they think these vehicles are intelligently driven craft beyond our abilities at the moment. Add them to the testimony of all the pilots, and to be on the debunker side of this you have to believe they are all lying or conspiring together. For maybe the first time, if you want to go occam's razor route, this appears to be a phenomenon that is real and is beyond our understanding at the moment.

[SoulMonster]

2 hours ago, action said:

if you can split atoms, you can also change gravity. 

We can split atoms. It is one of the principles behind nuclear energy. Can we change gravity? No so what you said was incorrect. It was also irrelevant.

[SoulMonster]

2 hours ago, Kasanova King said:

While retired officials involved with the effort — including Harry Reid, the former Senate majority leader — hope the program will seek evidence of vehicles from other worlds, its main focus is on discovering whether another nation, especially any potential adversary, is using breakout aviation technology that could threaten the United States.

 

Mr. Elizondo is among a small group of former government officials and scientists with security clearances who, without presenting physical proof, say they are convinced that objects of undetermined origin have crashed on earth with materials retrieved for study.

 

 

Mr. Reid, the former Democratic senator from Nevada who pushed for funding the earlier U.F.O. program when he was the majority leader, said he believed that crashes of objects of unknown origin may have occurred and that retrieved materials should be studied.

“After looking into this, I came to the conclusion that there were reports — some were substantive, some not so substantive — that there were actual materials that the government and the private sector had in their possession,” Mr. Reid said in an interview.

 

Eric W. Davis, an astrophysicist who worked as a subcontractor and then a consultant for the Pentagon U.F.O. program since 2007, said that, in some cases, examination of the materials had so far failed to determine their source and led him to conclude, “We couldn’t make it ourselves.

 

Mr. Davis, who now works for Aerospace Corporation, a defense contractor, said he gave a classified briefing to a Defense Department agency as recently as March about retrievals from “off-world vehicles not made on this earth.”

 

What was strange, the pilots said, was that the video showed objects accelerating to hypersonic speed, making sudden stops and instantaneous turns — something beyond the physical limits of a human crew.

 

 

On Monday, the Pentagon released three Navy videos that have driven speculation about unidentified flying objects for years, saying it meant to “clear up any misconceptions” about whether the unclassified footage was real or complete.

It’s real, the Pentagon said, including links so the curious could download the footage for themselves.

Hmm, there is nothing in this that implies NYT is soon going to publish an article claiming that we have been visited by aliens using anti-gravity technology and the ability to travel using bending of space-time. 

[soon]

Im still hung up on the "why now?" question. And Ive whipped up this nugget of armchair psychology. That Murica has been shaken to its core by the Trump reality. People are disillusioned and afraid. This produces an urge to say "But look, we've got the coolest flying saucers!" 

[Ace Nova]

4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Hmm, there is nothing in this that implies NYT is soon going to publish an article claiming that we have been visited by aliens using anti-gravity technology and the ability to travel using bending of space-time. 

No, of course not.  Certainly nothing about "aliens".  

But it alludes to the government and private companies having found technology "not of this earth" and also alludes to Navy pilots witnessing these "crafts" performing maneuvers that are beyond our current technology.  One of the pilots was also quoted saying that they seem to use some sort of "anti-gravity technology" ,etc.

 

[SoulMonster]

38 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

The thing that has me intrigued is the guys who have seen classified materials such as Elizondo, Davis, and others that talked to the New York Times but aren't on the record yet, say they think these vehicles are intelligently driven craft beyond our abilities at the moment. Add them to the testimony of all the pilots, and to be on the debunker side of this you have to believe they are all lying or conspiring together. For maybe the first time, if you want to go occam's razor route, this appears to be a phenomenon that is real and is beyond our understanding at the moment.

There is nothing extraordinary about humans believing strongly in something which isn't true. It's pretty much a defining characteristic of our species. So if I was to wield the razor I would certainly cut away the scenario with aliens have visited earth and done some fancy flying and left the scenario of a handful of guys all being mistaken about this. The former relies upon the remarkable premise that not only do highly advanced extraterrestrials exist, but also that they have come to earth (probably from another galaxy), and that they would be seen but that it would all be covered up by the US military; the latter is just humans being wrong, again.

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, Kasanova King said:

No, of course not.  Certainly nothing about "aliens".  

But it alludes to the government and private companies having found technology "not of this earth" and also alludes to Navy pilots witnessing these "crafts" performing maneuvers that are beyond our current technology.  One of the pilots was also quoted saying that they seem to use some sort of "anti-gravity technology" ,etc.

You didn't quote the part about "anti-gravity technology". Still, NYT coming out and saying we have been visited by aliens with anti-gravity technology is very different from NYT publishing an interview with some guys who makes the claim. The former, which was what I alluded to in my original post, would mean that this somber and credible newspaper has concluded that the evidence is so strong they can break the news about aliens visiting earth with fancypants technology, the latter is just NYT following up on the remarkable story that the pentagon has been running a secret UFO program and including some quotes about material collected allegedly being extraterrestrial.