STAR WARS: Convoluted Cash- Cow Disney Adventure Series That Will Never End Thread

[ZoSoRose]

45 minutes ago, downzy said:

This is why I'd love to see them reboot the whole thing. 

Start from the very beginning.  Make the story of Anakin make sense.  Use much better casting.  Setup where the series is going to go from the very beginning and sort of work backwards.  Have a master and unified vision.  Take the best parts of Star Wars and eliminate what didn't work.  

That said, I don't think doing this would re-capture the magic and make SW a cultural phenomenon.  You get your moment and then it's gone.  People will want the next thing, not a retread of something they've already experienced (which is why people are moving on from the MCU).  But telling the story again from a fresh and logical perspective that doesn't involve tripping over itself could still be a worthwhile exercise for me at least because as much as I enjoy Star Wars, it's not my religion like it is for some people.  And I guess for many rebooting the whole thing might be considered blasphemous.  

Rebooting Star Wars would have been sacrilege to me a few years back, but maybe it could be interesting. Reboots are almost always a boring and bad idea, but seeing everything with a new spin and cohesive (hopefully) would be worth a watch for the novelty. They are still deep in the current canon, but if in 15- 20 years they said, "fuck it", here is a retelling of the whole saga on HBO, I wouldn't care too much. The originals are all still there and a reboot would never be able to replicate the quicks, time- dated pieces, and cast. The OT is partially so cool because it is a time capsule imo. 

Anyways, I am just on the down slope of my Star Wars fan- revival- phase since they announced it was all coming back in 2012. The disappointment of the sequels kind of killed it, but Mandalorian brought it back a bit in 2019 and 2020. Still, the TV shows are to hit and miss for me to care too much, now. I watch them all, but I am not obsessing over it all, anymore. 

My friend and I got to go to Galaxy's Edge last year at Disney World. I am not like a huge Disney guy. I like the parks, but I don't go out of my way to go since they are far away and expensive. I happened to be in Orlando for business, so I decided to go. My good friend and I met through Star Wars. I liked his Star Wars toys on the playground in 2nd grade and that is what started our friendship. He flew down and we went together, and I have to say, that was pretty cool. I didn't care it wasn't a copy of the original movies and it was sequel themed. We did all the gimmick shit, made lightsabers and robots and rode the rides and went to the cantina and all that. It was a good day and a fun way to cap off the past decade of really being excited (and disappointed) about Star Wars being back. Glad we did that... once. 

[downzy]

1 hour ago, ZoSoRose said:

Anyways, I am just on the down slope of my Star Wars fan- revival- phase since they announced it was all coming back in 2012.

For me it was the prequels.  They were just so bad that it kind of killed the series for me.  What was the ultimate nail in the coffin was actually watching the OT series again and realizing outside of Empire, the other two films weren't that great either.  They have their moments, but now that they were apart of a bigger series, I just couldn't care anymore.  So it sounds like the ST did for you what the PT did for me. 

I've always liked J.J. as a film maker (I liked what he did with Star Trek and I really enjoyed Super 8) so I was at least interested to see what he'd do with The Force Awakens.  And for me, it was fun even if it felt eerily like A New Hope.  It's almost as if he decided to remake A New Hope but make it an objectively well executed film (because as novel as A New Hope is, it's got some serious basic film-making execution problems).  

1 hour ago, ZoSoRose said:

My friend and I got to go to Galaxy's Edge last year at Disney World. I am not like a huge Disney guy. I like the parks, but I don't go out of my way to go since they are far away and expensive. I happened to be in Orlando for business, so I decided to go. My good friend and I met through Star Wars. I liked his Star Wars toys on the playground in 2nd grade and that is what started our friendship. He flew down and we went together, and I have to say, that was pretty cool. I didn't care it wasn't a copy of the original movies and it was sequel themed. We did all the gimmick shit, made lightsabers and robots and rode the rides and went to the cantina and all that. It was a good day and a fun way to cap off the past decade of really being excited (and disappointed) about Star Wars being back.

I think this is the best and really only way to enjoy Star Wars at this point: have fun and don't take it too seriously.  Wanting it to be something more than it is or was will lead to disappointment.  When Star Wars and its fans take it too seriously, that's when you run into problems.  Same issue with the Matrix.  Understand why we love it, and keep things in perspective that these aren't suppose to explain the meaning of life.

I went to Galaxy's Edge a few months ago at Disneyland in California and I loved it.  It was so cool.  Like you, I didn't mind that it wasn't based on the OT.  Rise of the Resistance was breathtaking in both scope and detail.  You could forgive yourself for thinking you were actually part of a Star Wars film.  I think it was one of the coolest rides/experiences I've ever had.  The Cantina was a lot of fun (even though I was there on my own because my wife had taken my daughter back to our hotel at that point) and the drinks were great (if not insanely expensive).  Just walking around was really cool.  For that alone I'm glad Disney bought Star Wars.  I tell anyone who is even a casual fan to check it out if they're either in Florida or California.  For die-hard fans it's an absolute must.  I'd go again but only if I was with another Star Wars fan.  

[ZoSoRose]

7 minutes ago, downzy said:

For me it was the prequels.  They were just so bad that it kind of killed the series for me.  What was the ultimate nail in the coffin was actually watching the OT series again and realizing outside of Empire, the other two films weren't that great either.  They have their moments, but now that they were apart of a bigger series, I just couldn't care anymore.  So it sounds like the ST did for you what the PT did for me. 

I've always liked J.J. as a film maker (I liked what he did with Star Trek and I really enjoyed Super 8) so I was at least interested to see what he'd do with The Force Awakens.  And for me, it was fun even if it felt eerily like A New Hope.  It's almost as if he decided to remake A New Hope but make it an objectively well executed film (because as novel as A New Hope is, it's got some serious basic film-making execution problems).  

I think this is the best and really only way to enjoy Star Wars at this point: have fun and don't take it too seriously.  Wanting it to be something more than it is or was will lead to disappointment.  When Star Wars and its fans take it too seriously, that's when you run into problems.  Same issue with the Matrix issue.  Understand why we love it, and keep things in perspective that these aren't suppose to explain the meaning of life.

I went to Galaxy's Edge a few months ago at Disneyland in California and I loved it.  It was so cool.  Like you, I didn't mind that it wasn't based on the OT.  Rise of the Resistance was breathtaking in both scope and detail.  You could forgive yourself for thinking you were actually part of a Star Wars film.  I think it was one of the coolest rides/experiences I've ever had.  The Cantina was a lot of fun (even though I was there on my own because my wife had taken my daughter back to our hotel at that point) and the drinks were great (if not insanely expensive).  Just walking around was really cool.  For that alone I'm glad Disney bought Star Wars.  I tell anyone who is even a casual fan to check it out if they're either in Florida or California.  For die-hard fans it's an absolute must.  I'd go again but only if I was with another Star Wars fan.  

It really was awesome. I never had the urge to go to the failed SW hotel, but GE itself was great. We did everything GE had to offer and it filled up a good chunk of the day. Still got to do a bit at Hollywood Studios and Magic Kingdom that day, too. It was a total cash grab, but they make it an extremely memorable one, and for doing it once, why not? I have the overpriced robot and lightsaber on my shelf, I bought a cantina drink with a souvenir cup, but it was worth it to do it once. Being "inside" the Millennium Falcon was amazing as a longtime fan and Rise was an incredible feat of immersion and technology. Of all 4 parks, that was my favorite ride.

I agree, I am at the point to where I can just turn my brain off and enjoy the memories. If I happen to like some of the media that continues to come out, cool. If not, I still have the old stuff and memories. It is all good. 

[rocknroll41]

I still have fun with TLJ, but only when I watch it on mute. Thankfully, an official music-only version of it exists.

[downzy]

1 hour ago, ZoSoRose said:

I agree, I am at the point to where I can just turn my brain off and enjoy the memories. If I happen to like some of the media that continues to come out, cool. If not, I still have the old stuff and memories. It is all good. 

Yeah, I think as we get older we realize that a lot of this stuff doesn't matter as much as we thought it would.  Even GNR.  It's nice to have, but what gives you value, happiness, and what ultimately matters in life should be based on something more than a silly movie series or music album. 

They're nice to have and they should provide joy, happiness, escape and something to bond over with friends.  They should neither ruin your life or be your life.  Enjoy things for what they are.  If you didn't enjoy it, then fine.  That's okay too. 

At this point in my life I try to approach Marvel or Star Wars films like their rides at an amusement park.  When I was a kid or teen they were everything.  Now, I'm not going to get too upset if they're not as fun as I hoped they would be.  

 

[ZoSoRose]

13 minutes ago, downzy said:

Even GNR. 

 

Especially GNR 

[rocknroll41]

1 hour ago, downzy said:

Yeah, I think as we get older we realize that a lot of this stuff doesn't matter as much as we thought it would.  Even GNR.  It's nice to have, but what gives you value, happiness, and what ultimately matters in life should be based on something more than a silly movie series or music album. 

They're nice to have and they should provide joy, happiness, escape and something to bond over with friends.  They should neither ruin your life or be your life.  Enjoy things for what they are.  If you didn't enjoy it, then fine.  That's okay too. 

At this point in my life I try to approach Marvel or Star Wars films like their rides at an amusement park.  When I was a kid or teen they were everything.  Now, I'm not going to get too upset if they're not as fun as I hoped they would be.  

 

The whole “treat it as a theme park ride” approach is why I plan to see every new Star Wars movie alone from now on. All my friends irl are whiny nerds who take it too seriously, and they can’t treat Star Wars as “just a theme park ride” even if their lives depended on it.

[rocknroll41]

Apparently Mando season 4 might get turned into a movie that proceeds the “bigger” Thrawn movie, and that both movies might now release before the Rey one. This rumor was already going around a few months ago, but now other scoopers are saying it’s probably legit.

Edited December 8, 2023 by rocknroll41

[Rovim]

how many fans actually want a movie that centers around Rey? I didn't like that character at all, but maybe enough people do.

[rocknroll41]

2 hours ago, Rovim said:

how many fans actually want a movie that centers around Rey? I didn't like that character at all, but maybe enough people do.

I liked Rey more than most people, but the premise of her upcoming movie seems a bit bizarre. It apparently takes place 15 years after the last one, and yet she still hasn’t rebuilt the Jedi order yet. All they’ve said is “there’s a question about how many Jedi are left now.” Da fuck does that even mean? My theory is that she’s been traveling the galaxy and training different people here and there, and doesn’t wanna bring them all together, but now she has to, and I feel like that plot can either be really cool or really boring, depending on how it’s executed.

[Rovim]

22 hours ago, rocknroll41 said:

I liked Rey more than most people, but the premise of her upcoming movie seems a bit bizarre. It apparently takes place 15 years after the last one, and yet she still hasn’t rebuilt the Jedi order yet. All they’ve said is “there’s a question about how many Jedi are left now.” Da fuck does that even mean? My theory is that she’s been traveling the galaxy and training different people here and there, and doesn’t wanna bring them all together, but now she has to, and I feel like that plot can either be really cool or really boring, depending on how it’s executed.

after thinking about what you've said here, I must agree that I can see how this indeed could be really cool, if done right. Again...if done right.

[rocknroll41]

It’s 100% confirmed now that Mando season 4 will now be a theatrical movie coming out next year called The Mandalorian & Grogu. Filming starts soon.

Something to note is that the announcement refers to this movie as simply The Mandalorian & Grogu, rather than Star Wars: The Mandalorian & Grogu or The Mandalorian & Grogu: A Star Wars Story.

Maybe this means they’re finally dropping “Star Wars” from the movie names and allowing each era to evolve as its own separate “sub-franchise,” a la marvel.

Edited January 9 by rocknroll41

[luciusfunk]

7 hours ago, rocknroll41 said:

It’s 100% confirmed now that Mando season 4 will now be a theatrical movie coming out next year called The Mandalorian & Grogu. Filming starts soon.

Something to note is that the announcement refers to this movie as simply The Mandalorian & Grogu, rather than Star Wars: The Mandalorian & Grogu or The Mandalorian & Grogu: A Star Wars Story.

Maybe this means they’re finally dropping “Star Wars” from the movie names and allowing each era to evolve as its own separate “sub-franchise,” a la marvel.

I've seen a few sources stating season four is still coming and it's separate from The Mandalorian & Grogu. I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[Sweersa]

On 12/8/2023 at 5:49 PM, rocknroll41 said:

Apparently Mando season 4 might get turned into a movie that proceeds the “bigger” Thrawn movie, and that both movies might now release before the Rey one. This rumor was already going around a few months ago, but now other scoopers are saying it’s probably legit.

I have a feeling this bigger Thrawn movie will be more like what fans wanted or even expected of the sequel trilogy, especially if they borrow from more EU material. 

[rocknroll41]

There are now two different Rey movies in development (one by Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy and one by Shawn Levy). Daisy is getting paid $12 million for the former. Nobody is sure how much she’s getting paid for the other one yet. They’re also trying to bring back John and Oscar for either movie (if not both) for similar paychecks. Personally I think it’s smart of them to be doing two different post-ST movies at once. If it was just one movie it would never live up to the scrutiny.

Also, if Daisy really is getting paid $12 million for Chinoy’s film, then she’ll definitely be front-and-center in that (and not just a supporting role, as some have speculated).

[luciusfunk]

The movies will just end up contradicting each other.

[downzy]

I watched the prequels again over the Christmas holidays as it had been several decades since I had seen them.  Curious if they were as bad as I remembered them.  Tried my best to keep an open mind and there were aspects of them that I did enjoy.

But as a whole, they're really badly made.  In almost every respect.  The directing and editing makes little to no sense.  There's a scene in PM where a yellow fighter jet flies out of a Naboo hanger bay.  It gets shot down by a trade federation ship.  And for whatever reason, the editor decides that we need to stay on this jet for an extra five seconds to watch it fall to the valley below and crash.  It makes zero sense why you'd include a shot like this.  There are many other examples but that's one that stuck out for me.  

I'll give Phantom Menace credit for at least shooting some scenes on location.  Once we get to AotC, it's just one huge green screen cluster fuck.  And had the technology been there, maybe it could have worked.  But it's really hard to get passed the visuals.  I had to laugh at some of the CGI in Phantom Menace, particularly the shots of the robot army assembling outside of the Naboo capitol.  It looked like it was rendered on a 486-based computer.

Other than scoring, the prequels fail in almost every aspect of filmmaking (directing, editing, special effects, narrative, dialogue, acting).

I could write an essay on all the issues I had with these films so I'll try to keep it short:

• The acting was far more of a mixed bag than I remember.  Jake Lloyd wasn't as bad as I thought when he wasn't on his own.  But when he had to carry a scene, it was hard not to cringe with every line he gave.  And I couldn't get past Natalie Portman's long island accent.  She wasn't given much, but even with the few lines thrown her way it was hard to take her seriously.  Ewan McGregor and Ian McDiarmid gave great performances; Liam Neelson passable.  But on the whole, the acting was tough to watch.
• AotC is border-line unwatchable.  Not a single element of film making was done well in this film.  The one thing it had going for it was the explanation for how the clone army came to being.  Hayden Christensen was awful; just awful. There is little reason to believe that Padme would have any interest in a guy who whines throughout the entire film and gives her nothing but creepy looks.  The final battle scene is a mess and makes little to no sense if you sit and think about it for more than a minute.  There's so much of this film that I had forgotten about and for good reason.
• There is definitely a huge improvement in special effects by the time we get to RotS.  It does look remarkably better than AotC and in some respects to PM.
• But there's little else about RotS that's in anyway defensible.  There's so much wrong with how Lucas handles Anakin's transformation.  There was such a better story to be told than the one we got. 

This is the biggest issue I have with the entire prequels.  How badly Lucas botches Anakin's journey to Darth Vader.  And to reinforce this point, here's an alternative:

• Instead of Padme dying because she's sad and Anakin trusting the word of a Sith because of his own insecurities, we get a story where Anakin grows weary of the Jedi order through Episode II because of valid issues and complaints.  Why did they allow his mother to stay in bondage?  Why was he prevented from saving his mother?  They don't really touch on these issues.  It seemed crazy to me that in PM Qui-Gon has no issue ripping a son away from his mother and leaving the mother in bondage. 
• Why does the rigidity of the Jedi order prevent Jedis from enacting real change?  At best these issues are treated tangentially.  But had they been given more focus it would have provided far better context and motivation for why Anakin sours on the Jedis (versus his almost immediate flip from jedi to sith).
• It would have been far more compelling had Padme delivered her children before her death.  Maybe have Luke separated from Padme and Leia once he reaches the age of one or two to help the continuity issue raised in RotJ.  Maybe the trade federation gains the upper hand, forcing Padme and Leia to flee.  Due to her political stature, Padme was given Jedi protection (say, Kenobi) and that protection failed and as a result, Padme dies.  Anakin blames the Jedi and their ineffectiveness for her death (and the belief his children died too) and turns to Palpatine as means for revenge (which supports the film's title) against an organization that ultimately failed him and his family.
• There is no emotional heart/weight to the current story.  There's no rhyme or believable reason for why Anakin would turn to the dark side out of some vague promise by Palpatine to teach him how to bring people back from the dead (which he was never taught but somehow continues to serve Palpatine for reasons).

I think people like RotS the most of the prequels because they finally get to see Anakin become Vader.  And the fact the visuals weren't horrendous like they were in AotC.  Plus we finally get to see Vader.  But it's such an unbalanced film mostly because the entire prequel saga is poorly paced.  Vader's transformation is shoe-horned at the very end of the final film, as if Lucas checked the run time of the film and realized he had to wrap it up sooner than he had planned.  There was an opportunity to tell such a better story that would have made the audience sympathize with Anakin and maybe understand his decisions.  He could have been a noble and interesting character instead of the whiny, insecure version that we got.  It's hard to square the Anakin we see in the prequels with Kenobi's description of him in A New Hope, where he tells Luke that he was one of the best men he ever knew.  We don't really see that Anakin.  We see a guy who constantly undermines Obi-Won and then whines about him to Padme. 

Anyway, just a few thoughts after having watched the prequels recently.  It really reinforces my belief that a complete reboot of the first six films (and eventually the ST) would greatly improve the overall saga.  There's so much potential for a great story that covers the fall and then rise of the Skywalker legacy.  For me, it's hard to hold the SW series to the same level that pop culture has lifted it.  There's more failure than success.

P.S. I had to laugh at the end of PM, where Padme looks over at Anakin and gives him this strange look where she kind of bites her lip.  It gave me this notion that Padme was thinking, "I'm going to fuck that kid some day."  Really weird way to end the film considering the age difference between the two actors.   

[downzy]

12 hours ago, luciusfunk said:

The movies will just end up contradicting each other.

In that respect, they'll at least be like every other Star Wars film.

[luciusfunk]

On 1/25/2024 at 9:22 AM, downzy said:

In that respect, they'll at least be like every other Star Wars film.

ok

[downzy]

One thing that never made sense to me was the concept of "balance to the force." 

I thought it was something first brought up in the OT, as that would make sense since the Sith are crushing it.

But nobody in the OT actually mentions Anakin or Luke bringing "balance to the force."  It's a concept first raised in Phantom Menace.

Why would the Jedi want to balance the force when nobody had seen the Sith in how many years?  Wouldn't balancing the force mean the Jedi would have to be taken down a peg or two?  Why would the Jedi want to balance the force when they're doing well (relative to the dark side of the force)?

Maybe I'm missing something that gets explained in the cartoon series (which I still refuse to watch since their only reason to exist is to fix what the prequels broke).

[ZoSoRose]

12 minutes ago, downzy said:

One thing that never made sense to me was the concept of "balance to the force." 

I thought it was something first brought up in the OT, as that would make sense since the Sith are crushing it.

But nobody in the OT actually mentions Anakin or Luke bringing "balance to the force."  It's a concept first raised in Phantom Menace.

Why would the Jedi want to balance the force when nobody had seen the Sith in how many years?  Wouldn't balancing the force mean the Jedi would have to be taken down a peg or two?  Why would the Jedi want to balance the force when they're doing well (relative to the dark side of the force)?

Maybe I'm missing something that gets explained in the cartoon series (which I still refuse to watch since their only reason to exist is to fix what the prequels broke).

Star Wars stopped making sense with The Empire Strikes Back 

[rocknroll41]

Daisy Ridley says she’s gonna read the script for her next Star Wars movie is about a month from now, so I guess the script is done (or close to it).

[Rovim]

'Andor' Creator Reflects On "Important" 24 Hours Of Storytelling (theplaylist.net)