STAR WARS: Convoluted Cash- Cow Disney Adventure Series That Will Never End Thread

[rocknroll41]

As much as I loved the finale, now that I’ve had the time to look back on the whole series with hindsight, I agree with many out there that this should’ve been a movie instead. That said, I did like how each episode “emulated” a different saga film from Episode I-VI, and I’m pretty sure the finale also had a few sequel trilogy references sprinkled in for good measure too. That was cool.

[Powerage5]

3 hours ago, downzy said:

The Vader - Kenobi duel was fantastic.

It was everything the duel in Revenge of the Sith should have been.  No over the top choreography (ie flips) and no cheesy, throw away dialogue.  People still claim that Sith was a decent film partly because of that duel.  I hope this one opens people’s eyes as to why it doesn’t deserve the praise it does (or did).

That said, the series as a whole didn’t do much in terms of closing any plot holes. In fact I feel it created more problems than solved in terms of continuity.  There’s a chance they do another Kenobi series so perhaps these issues will be resolved at a later time.

I’d give the entire series a 7 out of 10, with the last episode getting a 9.5. 

Curious what plot holes you think it created, as there’s none that immediately spring to mind for me. There was the one quasi-plot hole that popped up where people said Leif’s hologram in ANH indicates no close ties to Obi-Wan or that they’d never met, but I thought that was dealt with nicely during the finale itself. 
 

I thought the finale was fantastic - very emotional and raw. As much as I do love ROTS, this was a lot more heartbreaking to watch unfold during Vader and Obi-Wan’s rematch. It did a lot to add some depth to existing characters too - Owen and Beru’s deaths are a lot more impactful seeing how protective they were of Luke (And seriously, who had “Beru is a total badass” on their OWK bingo card?). We got a lot of people’s wish-list moments all in one episode; Vader vs Obi-Wan, meaningful callbacks in dialogue (“I will do what I must”, “then you will die”, etc), meme-able moments, more Luke, a couple surprising (Or not so surprising) cameos…it was all handled very well. I absolutely loved Obi-Wan’s “hello there” - obviously Ewan saying it in ROTS has become a big meme, but here he sounded so much like Alec Guinness, and the fact that that was his first line of dialogue in ANH - it really bridged the two portrayals together nicely. 
 

Amazing episode. 

[downzy]

40 minutes ago, Powerage5 said:

Curious what plot holes you think it created, as there’s none that immediately spring to mind for me. There was the one quasi-plot hole that popped up where people said Leif’s hologram in ANH indicates no close ties to Obi-Wan or that they’d never met, but I thought that was dealt with nicely during the finale itself. 

The big one for me is the Obi-Wan - Leia connection.  If you watch A New Hope, Leia shows little to no reaction or remorse to "Ben" dying.  I get that she's suppose to hide her knowledge of him, but you'd think someone would at least spend a moment of grief for a man who saved her life and helped to guide her on her path.  You'd think considering Obi-Won is now dead (or, for reasons that still have never made sense, now more powerful than ever), she could comfort Luke by saying, "yeah, I knew Ben from a long time ago; he was a great man" or something.  The need to keep up the act is no longer present.

The other plot hole this series creates (or has yet to answer) is why Obi Won is able to hide out on Tatooine with no concern about the Grand Inquisitor.  Why does the Emperor or the Empire just give up on finding Obi-Won.  You'd think this would still be an issue.  When Vader brings up Obi-Won to General Tarkin in A New Hope, Tarkin responds that Obi-Won must "surely be dead."  Why?  Obi-Won in the new series looks to be, at his oldest, in his early 50s.  Why would an early 60 year old Jedi Master surely be dead considering how powerful Obi-Won still was 10 years prior?

Perhaps they'll get to do another series and try to smooth out some of these issues.  But I kind of wished this series had been longer, with more focus on Vader increasingly moving towards Palpatine.  

[Powerage5]

2 hours ago, downzy said:

The big one for me is the Obi-Wan - Leia connection.  If you watch A New Hope, Leia shows little to no reaction or remorse to "Ben" dying.  I get that she's suppose to hide her knowledge of him, but you'd think someone would at least spend a moment of grief for a man who saved her life and helped to guide her on her path.  You'd think considering Obi-Won is now dead (or, for reasons that still have never made sense, now more powerful than ever), she could comfort Luke by saying, "yeah, I knew Ben from a long time ago; he was a great man" or something.  The need to keep up the act is no longer present.

The other plot hole this series creates (or has yet to answer) is why Obi Won is able to hide out on Tatooine with no concern about the Grand Inquisitor.  Why does the Emperor or the Empire just give up on finding Obi-Won.  You'd think this would still be an issue.  When Vader brings up Obi-Won to General Tarkin in A New Hope, Tarkin responds that Obi-Won must "surely be dead."  Why?  Obi-Won in the new series looks to be, at his oldest, in his early 50s.  Why would an early 60 year old Jedi Master surely be dead considering how powerful Obi-Won still was 10 years prior?

Perhaps they'll get to do another series and try to smooth out some of these issues.  But I kind of wished this series had been longer, with more focus on Vader increasingly moving towards Palpatine.  

I can respect both of those and admit that there are no clear answers to either. Unfortunately Star Wars will never really be rock solid in terms of avoiding all plot holes and inconsistencies. While George originally wanted the saga to be nine (Or by some reports, twelve) films - ANH as it was written and released in it's final form, was a standalone film. ANH itself causes many of the inconsistencies with the rest of the universe simply because George evolved things once a sequel was greenlit. A perfect example that comes into relevance in regards to OWK is when Obi-Wan refers to Vader as "Darth" during their duel on the Death Star. At the time of writing, "Darth" was literally the character's first name, not a title. It wasn't until Empire was being written and George decided that Vader was actually Luke's father that Darth became a title. In that instance I think OWK did a good job of smoothing that one over, when Obi-Wan called him Darth at the end of their duel here, I took it sort of as a dig at him - Obi-Wan recognized that Anakin was indeed truly dead, but refused to refer to him as his new identity. 

 

That's just one example, but there's plenty more in ANH - Tarkin assuming Obi-Wan must be dead (It is pretty clear with any context even within ANH itself that Obi-Wan is not as old as Alec Guinness makes him look), Luke wanting to go to the Imperial academy, Han's whole "parsec" nonsense, Vader apparently just being a thug for Tarkin who is the real baddie,...there's a lot of inconsistencies that all had to be retconned or explained away in subsequent films/other media.

 

There's also the question of how reliable the narrator in Star Wars is. The basic explanation is, the framework for the Skywalker saga (And possibly more of the Star Wars universe? I'm unclear on that) is the stories are being recounted in a fictional book called the Journal of the Whills. The Whills were actually first briefly mentioned in very early drafts of Star Wars several years before ANH was released, and IIRC the term eventually merged with the Jedi. More recently the Whills have been written into canon as extremely Force-sensitive beings, far beyond even the most powerful Jedi. They held the secrets to becoming a Force ghost, which Qui-Got first learned. In the short story anthology book From A Certain Point Of View, the final story is one which breaks the fourth wall between two Whills - one is writing the opening crawl to ANH in the Journal of the Whills, and the second keeps interrupting trying to say the first isn't recounting the story correctly. Since this all has become canon in the SW universe, I sort of see it similar to the framework for Mad Max; the events aren't gospel, but are essentially legends being passed down generation to generation, and maybe things get exaggerated or lost with each retelling. It allows some room for inconsistencies. 

 

This post got a little nerdy I guess  

[rocknroll41]

I wonder if George Lucas saw this show and if he likes it.

[metallex78]

I’m a massive Star Wars fan and I thought Kenobi was mostly terrible, with some awesome Vader-Kenobi scenes. 

But the terrible stuff outweighs the good. 

Felt like a lot of plot holes, odd character motivations, bad writing, bad acting and some poor CGI.

And apparently getting stabbed with a lightsaber through your stomach doesn’t kill you… 

I expected so much more from this, such a shame.

Edited June 24, 2022 by metallex78

[Powerage5]

4 hours ago, rocknroll41 said:

I wonder if George Lucas saw this show and if he likes it.

I’ve found myself wondering what Lucas thinks of a lot of the Disney output. 

20 minutes ago, metallex78 said:

I’m a massive Star Wars fan and I thought Kenobi was mostly terrible, with some awesome Vader-Kenobi scenes. 

But the terrible stuff outweighs the good. 

Felt like a lot of plot holes, odd character motivations, bad writing, bad acting and some poor CGI.

And apparently getting stabbed with a lightsaber through your stomach doesn’t kill you… 

I expected so much more from this, such a shame.

I mean, Maul got chopped in half and lived to tell the tale…the precedent was already set

[rocknroll41]

34 minutes ago, Powerage5 said:

I’ve found myself wondering what Lucas thinks of a lot of the Disney output. 

I mean, Maul got chopped in half and lived to tell the tale…the precedent was already set

He never gave his thoughts on Rise of Skywalker and has yet to give his thoughts on this Kenobi thing. He didn’t like Force Awakens. He apparently liked everything else though.

Edited June 24, 2022 by rocknroll41

[Padme]

On 6/23/2022 at 3:48 PM, downzy said:

That said, the series as a whole didn’t do much in terms of closing any plot holes. In fact I feel it created more problems than solved in terms of continuity.  There’s a chance they do another Kenobi series so perhaps these issues will be resolved at a later time.

Rumor has it that there will be at least one more Kenobi season.  I like this show. But at the same time I found many ups and downs, mostly in the 4th episode

[Jw224]

I can't see them making another season and it being any better than the first one so kinda hoping they just leave this as it is tbh. 

[rocknroll41]

1 hour ago, Jw224 said:

I can't see them making another season and it being any better than the first one so kinda hoping they just leave this as it is tbh. 

I wouldn’t mind them exploring the theme of mortality. Kenobi seems pretty ready to die in ANH. Maybe there’s a story about him learning to overcome a fear of death? And also excepting that his death is needed to push Luke forward? Just an idea.

They can also have him doing trippy training stuff with Qui-Gon and going off-world to fight Maul and run into Qi’ra maybe. I also wouldn’t mind a Yoda cameo.

[opalho]

17 hours ago, rocknroll41 said:

They can also have him doing trippy training stuff with Qui-Gon and going off-world to fight Maul and run into Qi’ra maybe. I also wouldn’t mind a Yoda cameo.

That would be awesome. They should also do something with Ahsoka, because that they would cool. 

[rocknroll41]

4 hours ago, opalho said:

That would be awesome. They should also do something with Ahsoka, because that they would cool. 

She’s getting her own show, though it’s set after the original trilogy. I suppose they could also have her show up in Kenobi, though she’d probably have to be played by a younger actress cause Rosario Dawson is too old to play her at that age, I think.

[rocknroll41]

So for those keeping track, here’s where we’re at:

CONFIRMED BY LUCASFILM
Rian Johnson’s trilogy
Kevin Feige’s movie that Michael Waldron is writing
Taika Waititi’s movie (rumored to be a loose Dawn of the Jedi adaptation)
Rogue Squadron (originally for 2023 but now delayed indefinitely like everything else)

CONFIRMED BY CREATORS
Shawn Levy’s movie (may be the same as Feige’s)
Studio Ghibli collaboration (may not be a movie)

REPORTED ON
The Knights of the Old Republic movie
Damon Lindeloff’s movie set short after Rise Of Skywalker

OFFICIALLY CANCELED
The Benioff&Weiss series
JD Dillard’s movie

[metallex78]

16 hours ago, rocknroll41 said:

So for those keeping track, here’s where we’re at:

CONFIRMED BY LUCASFILM
Rian Johnson’s trilogy
Kevin Feige’s movie that Michael Waldron is writing
Taika Waititi’s movie (rumored to be a loose Dawn of the Jedi adaptation)
Rogue Squadron (originally for 2023 but now delayed indefinitely like everything else)

CONFIRMED BY CREATORS
Shawn Levy’s movie (may be the same as Feige’s)
Studio Ghibli collaboration (may not be a movie)

REPORTED ON
The Knights of the Old Republic movie
Damon Lindeloff’s movie set short after Rise Of Skywalker

OFFICIALLY CANCELED
The Benioff&Weiss series
JD Dillard’s movie

Great, Rian Johnson, who made the worst Star Wars movie ever, gets another turn to make 3 more shitty films?

Pass…

[rocknroll41]

1 hour ago, metallex78 said:

Great, Rian Johnson, who made the worst Star Wars movie ever, gets another turn to make 3 more shitty films?

Pass…

To be fair, most people suspect that his movies will be canceled. Same with Taika’s movie and Rogue Squadron.

Edited November 11, 2022 by rocknroll41

[Coma16]

1 hour ago, rocknroll41 said:

To be fair, most people suspect that his movies will be canceled. Same with Taika’s movie and Rogue Squadron.

Cancelled why? Did he say "free palestine" or something?

[rocknroll41]

41 minutes ago, Coma16 said:

Cancelled why? Did he say "free palestine" or something?

Rian, you mean? Or Taika?

In Rian’s case, he keeps filling up his schedule with other projects outside of Star Wars, which implies that Disney low-key told him to fuck off. Taika has also been filling up his schedule with a bunch of random shit.

Rian keeps saying that he hopes to still make his trilogy someday, whereas Taika says he doesn’t give a fuck anymore.

Edited November 11, 2022 by rocknroll41

[Coma16]

11 minutes ago, rocknroll41 said:

Rian, you mean? Or Taika?

In Rian’s case, he keeps filling up his schedule with other projects outside of Star Wars, which implies that Disney low-key told him to fuck off. Taika has also been filling up his schedule with a bunch of random shit.

Rian keeps saying that he hopes to still make his trilogy someday, whereas Taika says he doesn’t give a fuck anymore.

Rian's was the best in the sequel trilogy. Shame they went in the direction they did for the finale.

 

I'm watching Andor episode 1, seems good so far.

Edited November 11, 2022 by Coma16

[ZoSoRose]

I liked TLJ but there’s no way the Rian trilogy ever materializes

[rocknroll41]

Turns out the ghibli project is just a short film.

[Jw224]

Was excited for Rian's trilogy, I think he'd be able to make it great if didn't need to follow on from JJ's decisions. A shame it doesn't seem to be happening. I'm agreed that TLJ was the best one and TROS was a cynical, rushed eye roll inducing conclusion. 

[Rovim]

idk...idk. Don't think Disney managed to make a single good Star Wars Movie. I like some parts from each film, but it doesn't come together for me, just doesn't. 

it makes shit clearer when you have something cool to compare it to which is for me the tv shows, namely The Mandalorian, bits of Kenoby, and Andor. 

Rogue One was cool. Rian Johnson is a talented director imo, he is capable of making a good Star Wars movie but I don't know if he'll get the chance to do so and thought his attempt was poor.

edit: they can't do the big scale films properly, only small scale which is, frankly, embarrassing.

Edited November 12, 2022 by Rovim

[metallex78]

On 11/12/2022 at 1:26 AM, Coma16 said:

Rian's was the best in the sequel trilogy. Shame they went in the direction they did for the finale

Only it wasn’t though.
 

Terrible acting, terrible dialogue, terrible plot, terrible gags. Just a shit movie. 

He completely disregarded everything set up in the previous movie. The only reason JJ did what he did in the finale was because he had no other option to wrap up what was supposed to be a trilogy.

I don’t know how anyone who truly loves Star Wars can say anything good about his movie. 

Edited November 13, 2022 by metallex78

[Jw224]

14 hours ago, metallex78 said:

Only it wasn’t though.
 

Terrible acting, terrible dialogue, terrible plot, terrible gags. Just a shit movie. 

He completely disregarded everything set up in the previous movie. The only reason JJ did what he did in the finale was because he had no other option to wrap up what was supposed to be a trilogy.

I don’t know how anyone who truly loves Star Wars can say anything good about his movie. 

The "JJ had to make a horrible movie because of the last movie" thing is kinda hilarious every time I see it.