STAR WARS: Convoluted Cash- Cow Disney Adventure Series That Will Never End Thread

[rocknroll41]

So Daisy Ridley recently revealed that Rey was originally gonna be a Kenobi, and then they changed their mind, and now everyone on the internet is freaking out that “there was no plan.”

I really don’t get this mentality. Do people forget that Luke and Leia CLEARLY were not meant to be siblings until Return of the Jedi? Yoda even tells Luke to let Leia die in Empire Strikes Back, only for her to then be revealed to be the “other hope” that he was talking about anyways. If she was the “other” Hope, why would Yoda be ok with her potentially dying in the previous movie? That’s a huge plot hole that nobody ever talks about. Just another example of how the original trilogy is held to unfairly high standard because nostalgia has clouded all of our judgements nowadays.

Now more than ever, I wish Empire Strikes Back never existed. It made Star Wars too finite and serious. All of the sequels after the 1977 film should’ve just been silly shit, like what was seen in the spinoff comics from that time period. Star Wars started as a silly Flash Gordon knockoff anyways.

Even the Marvel Movie Universe isn’t as well planned as everyone thinks. They didn’t know they were gonna do Thanos and the infinity stones until wrapping up production on the first Avengers film in 2012. As a matter of fact, Thor 3 had to retcon the more “comic-looking” gauntlet from Thor 1 as a “fake” (cause it was originally just meant to be a silly little Easter egg and nothing more).

[action]

bit late to the party, but my son is into star wars, I never was, and so I watched all these films for the first time properly, and it was entertaining if only for the cool spaceships.

I'm not a star wars fan at all, I don't really care about the story, and so I don't bear the frustrations many other people have. I know star wars from the N64 video games, and nothing else. In this respect, I found the 1977 movie a bit boring, ESB had the great hoth scenes, but I feel rise of the skywalker has some truly awesome space battles, even if I don't know what's going on.

I thought the movies were great fun, all in all. obviously, these recent movies have the best space battles.

these movies make me want to watch the indy movies again. Han solo is the best character of the series.

[action]

also, I asked my son of 8, what is your favorite star wars movie, and he said rise of the skywalker. I can see where he's coming from. He also likes the kylo ren character

I guess it's all great fun for kids

[rocknroll41]

@action thanks for sharing! It’s really nice to get a fresh perspective from both adults who never grew up with the films, as well as kids who are only growing up with them now. Will be interesting to see what the online conversation amongst the fandom looks like once the next generation grows up and adds their voices to places like Reddit, Twitter, etc (or whatever the equivalent of those sites are in 10-15 years from now).

[rocknroll41]

For those of you who hate The Last Jedi, Rian Johnson said today that his trilogy is still happening:

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-rian-johnson-trilogy-updates-2021/

Still no word on a release date yet tho. My theory is that Disney is waiting to see what happens with Avatar 2&3 first before deciding whether or not to green-light 4&5. So if Avatar 2&3 fail, then Rian can just take the slots that 4&5 were supposed to have.

[metallex78]

Great, another steaming pile of shit for Rian Johnson to give us... 

[ZoSoRose]

Say what you want about TLJ's writing, but I think it is by far one of the best looking Star Wars films to date. The cinematography is top notch and he actually takes his time to let key scenes breathe

My enjoyment of TLJ aside, I don't think he will end up doing another Star Wars movie let alone three. Episode VIII is just too divisive

Edited February 17, 2021 by ZoSoRose

[Jw224]

2 hours ago, rocknroll41 said:

For those of you who hate The Last Jedi, Rian Johnson said today that his trilogy is still happening:

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-rian-johnson-trilogy-updates-2021/

Still no word on a release date yet tho. My theory is that Disney is waiting to see what happens with Avatar 2&3 first before deciding whether or not to green-light 4&5. So if Avatar 2&3 fail, then Rian can just take the slots that 4&5 were supposed to have.

Awesome news, still kind of doubtful it will actually happen. 

[Sweersa]

After a year or so, I'm rewatching the sequel trilogy. Almost finished with 9. While they are still enjoyable, I still feel they are full of missed opportunities, overall unrealistic (relative), and suffer from poor storytelling and world building. 

The prequels and original trilogy are amazing in my book. The sequels are meh. 

I still can't get behind how little they talk of or show the New Republic. After their home fleet is blasted in 7, I expected at least some remnants of them to link up with the Resistance. Maybe this happened, I assume some of the ships from the core planets at the end of 9 are New Republic. The 8th film says the First Order reins, but a year or so later into 9 they still have not taken over the core and there's mention of free planets, presumably planets defended by New Republic and/or planetary defenses. I wish they spent even 5 minutes showing or explaining the state of the galaxy. 

Disney needed the rebels to be underdogs again, so the above wouldn't have been of much help with that. Oh and the Sith fleet, that was a bit much. So at that point, there's at least 4 major factions. A crumbled/fragmented New Republic, and small Resistance, vs the First Order, and the new Sith Eternal fleet and forces. The former based on the old rebellion, and the latter based on the old empire. A bit of a cluster. I think a straight fight between the New Republic and the First Order would have been more interesting, they seemed to be equals from what we know of their fleets before the Hosnian Prime event. 

[metallex78]

On 2/17/2021 at 3:24 PM, ZoSoRose said:

Say what you want about TLJ's writing, but I think it is by far one of the best looking Star Wars films to date. The cinematography is top notch and he actually takes his time to let key scenes breathe

My enjoyment of TLJ aside, I don't think he will end up doing another Star Wars movie let alone three. Episode VIII is just too divisive

I don’t care for how a movie looks, if the script, acting, characters and choreography is all rubbish. 

[PatrickS77]

On 9/11/2020 at 6:20 PM, rocknroll41 said:

I really don’t get this mentality. Do people forget that Luke and Leia CLEARLY were not meant to be siblings until Return of the Jedi? Yoda even tells Luke to let Leia die in Empire Strikes Back, only for her to then be revealed to be the “other hope” that he was talking about anyways. If she was the “other” Hope, why would Yoda be ok with her potentially dying in the previous movie? That’s a huge plot hole that nobody ever talks about. Just another example of how the original trilogy is held to unfairly high standard because nostalgia has clouded all of our judgements nowadays.

Oh, for fucks sake. Lucas wasn't a billion dollar company at that point. Movie franchises weren't a thing and he didn't set out to do a trilogy. He was glad he could do 1 movie. Then he was glad he could do a second. Then came a third. Also it's 40 years ago. So you're comparing apples with oranges. Also if Leia can't help herself, then she's not worth of being the "hope".  And she ended up saving Luke, didn't she. Also it's better to have potentially one dying instead of two.

On 2/17/2021 at 5:24 AM, ZoSoRose said:

Say what you want about TLJ's writing, but I think it is by far one of the best looking Star Wars films to date. The cinematography is top notch and he actually takes his time to let key scenes breathe

My enjoyment of TLJ aside, I don't think he will end up doing another Star Wars movie let alone three. Episode VIII is just too divisive

Even though he gave us the stupid force projection fight and the silly space float, at this point, I'd rather see a Johnson trilogy than another Abrams Star Wars.

Edited February 19, 2021 by PatrickS77

[downzy]

3 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

Even though he gave us the stupid force projection fight and the silly space float, at this point, I'd rather see a Johnson trilogy than another Abrams Star Wars.

Yeah, I would be more interested in what Johnson could do if he were given free reign to start something from scratch, divorced from the Skywalker story.

My issue with TLJ is that it was too much of a departure from the overarching narrative and general themes laid out by the previous seven films.  I think the "democratization of the force" is an interesting concept, just not one that belongs in the story that still heavily relies on the Skywalker storyline.  

[rocknroll41]

15 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

Oh, for fucks sake. Lucas wasn't a billion dollar company at that point. Movie franchises weren't a thing and he didn't set out to do a trilogy. He was glad he could do 1 movie. Then he was glad he could do a second. Then came a third. Also it's 40 years ago. So you're comparing apples with oranges. Also if Leia can't help herself, then she's not worth of being the "hope".  And she ended up saving Luke, didn't she. Also it's better to have potentially one dying instead of two.

Even though he gave us the stupid force projection fight and the silly space float, at this point, I'd rather see a Johnson trilogy than another Abrams Star Wars.

So just because movie franchises weren’t a thing back then it gives the OT an excuse to be full of plot holes but not the ST? Who fuckin cares when these things were made? What matters is if they hold up long term. And personally, there’s nothing for me in the OT to really see it as any different or “more special” than the other two trilogies. But I recognize that I’m the minority in that regard.

[PatrickS77]

11 hours ago, rocknroll41 said:

So just because movie franchises weren’t a thing back then it gives the OT an excuse to be full of plot holes but not the ST? Who fuckin cares when these things were made? What matters is if they hold up long term. And personally, there’s nothing for me in the OT to really see it as any different or “more special” than the other two trilogies. But I recognize that I’m the minority in that regard.

Yes. Along with everything else I wrote. And I dispute that it is "full of plotholes". The only thing that stands out (if you want to be overtly critical) is that Luke and Leia weren't supposed to be sibblings . And that the first movie was made to work as a stand alone. And even if it were as you say, 40 years and billions of dollars later, we are well within our rights to expect them to be way better in the execution and planning of those movies.

[rocknroll41]

1 hour ago, PatrickS77 said:

Yes. Along with everything else I wrote. And I dispute that it is "full of plotholes". The only thing that stands out (if you want to be overtly critical) is that Luke and Leia weren't supposed to be sibblings . And that the first movie was made to work as a stand alone. And even if it were as you say, 40 years and billions of dollars later, we are well within our rights to expect them to be way better in the execution and planning of those movies.

Empire Strikes Back has way more issues then just that. Why did Han suddenly forget the lessons he learned in the first film and go back to wanting to run away? That quick line in the beginning of the movie about running into a bounty hunter doesn’t count. Show, don’t tell.

Why is Leia suddenly way less professional then she used to be? Kissing Luke just to make Han jealous? Falling for “bad boy Han” when he shows no signs of maturity? Kissing Luke yet again on the falcon after they rescue him from Vader (it happens really fast) even tho she already told Han she loved him by that point? I thought these people were supposed to be adults, not teenagers.

And then of course there’s the fact that “I am your father” made all this shit too much about family, and making the emperor into the one who corrupted Vader shrunk the universe too much (in the original novelization, the emperor was just a normal guy). So now all we gotta do is kill the emperor and everything is resolved? Then what? Sounds a little too finite, if you ask me.

Oh, and let’s not forget that, according to Empire Strikes Back, Jedi can use the force to move objects now (which was never in the first one). So the force is a super power now? What’s next? Force speed? Force projections? Force teleportation? Oh, wait...

Come on, guys. NONE of these movies have ever been all that good. It’s all a bunch of overrated nonsense. Go ahead and tell me I’m “not really a Star Wars fan.” You know what? Maybe I’m not, at this point!

Edited February 20, 2021 by rocknroll41

[rocknroll41]

To add to my point above:

Marvel seems to have set this weird precedent that every franchise needs a grandmaster plan now.

News flash: Marvel is the only one that does that shit, and even they don’t always know what the fuck they’re doing. They didn’t know they were doing Thanos until the first Avengers film was already in reshoots. The tesseract and Loki’s scepter had to be retconned into infinity stones. The cartoony-looking gauntlet in Thor 1 had to be retconned into a “decoy.” All the adult humor went away when the franchise moved from Paramount to Disney (after Captain America 1). Thor 3 has a completely different tone from the previous Thor films. Spider-Man Homecoming has a timeline miscalculation. Scarlet Witch’s accent is gone in Infinity War for no reason. And so on...

So yeah, the mcu “has a plan.” Ok!

[PatrickS77]

3 hours ago, rocknroll41 said:

Empire Strikes Back has way more issues then just that. Why did Han suddenly forget the lessons he learned in the first film and go back to wanting to run away? That quick line in the beginning of the movie about running into a bounty hunter doesn’t count. Show, don’t tell.

Why is Leia suddenly way less professional then she used to be? Kissing Luke just to make Han jealous? Falling for “bad boy Han” when he shows no signs of maturity? Kissing Luke yet again on the falcon after they rescue him from Vader (it happens really fast) even tho she already told Han she loved him by that point? I thought these people were supposed to be adults, not teenagers.

And then of course there’s the fact that “I am your father” made all this shit too much about family, and making the emperor into the one who corrupted Vader shrunk the universe too much (in the original novelization, the emperor was just a normal guy). So now all we gotta do is kill the emperor and everything is resolved? Then what? Sounds a little too finite, if you ask me.

Oh, and let’s not forget that, according to Empire Strikes Back, Jedi can use the force to move objects now (which was never in the first one). So the force is a super power now? What’s next? Force speed? Force projections? Force teleportation? Oh, wait...

Come on, guys. NONE of these movies have ever been all that good. It’s all a bunch of overrated nonsense. Go ahead and tell me I’m “not really a Star Wars fan.” You know what? Maybe I’m not, at this point!

Sorry. But all the points you raise are silly. And yes, the original trilogy is better than the dogshit the sequels turned out be.

[PatrickS77]

3 hours ago, rocknroll41 said:

To add to my point above:

Marvel seems to have set this weird precedent that every franchise needs a grandmaster plan now.

News flash: Marvel is the only one that does that shit, and even they don’t always know what the fuck they’re doing. They didn’t know they were doing Thanos until the first Avengers film was already in reshoots. The tesseract and Loki’s scepter had to be retconned into infinity stones. The cartoony-looking gauntlet in Thor 1 had to be retconned into a “decoy.” All the adult humor went away when the franchise moved from Paramount to Disney (after Captain America 1). Thor 3 has a completely different tone from the previous Thor films. Spider-Man Homecoming has a timeline miscalculation. Scarlet Witch’s accent is gone in Infinity War for no reason. And so on...

So yeah, the mcu “has a plan.” Ok!

Even more silliness. You really want to compare the consistency of 23 movies in the Marvel universe to 3 movies that make up the Star Wars sequels. I shudder how fucked up the Marvel universe would be if the Star Wars people would have been in charge.

[rocknroll41]

7 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

Sorry. But all the points you raise are silly. And yes, the original trilogy is better than the dogshit the sequels turned out be.

I’m not really a fan of TFA or TRoS these days and I acknowledge that TLJ has flaws, tho I think a lot of those flaws have more to do with TFA being a shitty setup. That being said, I don’t think the OT is as great as everyone says either. A lot of the same complaints people have about the ST could easily be applied to the OT (character regression, retcons, tonal inconsistencies, messy worldbuilding, universe-shrinking, etc.). Couldn’t care less about the fact that it’s “influential” or (retroactively) critically-acclaimed or whatever. Plenty of bad movies are successful and influential, and plenty of good movies fail to reach anyone’s radar.

7 hours ago, PatrickS77 said:

Even more silliness. You really want to compare the consistency of 23 movies in the Marvel universe to 3 movies that make up the Star Wars sequels. I shudder how fucked up the Marvel universe would be if the Star Wars people would have been in charge.

The marvel people would’ve fucked up starwars too cause starwars became unfixable longterm the moment Empire Strikes Back decided to retroactively make the whole thing about one family (and the decisions made by Return of the Jedi and the prequels to further emphasize this aspect don’t do it any favors either). One thing I’ll give you tho is that Kathy/JJ/Rian/etc wouldn’t have been able to pull off the mcu as well as Feige, but that’s because Feige is a one-in-a-million, and (as I’ve highlighted above) even he’s not perfect.

EDIT: oh yeah, and those 23 marvel movies didn’t have the weight of 32 years worth of unrealistic expectations that the starwars sequel trilogy did.

Edited February 21, 2021 by rocknroll41

[rocknroll41]

On 2/19/2021 at 9:39 AM, downzy said:

Yeah, I would be more interested in what Johnson could do if he were given free reign to start something from scratch, divorced from the Skywalker story.

My issue with TLJ is that it was too much of a departure from the overarching narrative and general themes laid out by the previous seven films.  I think the "democratization of the force" is an interesting concept, just not one that belongs in the story that still heavily relies on the Skywalker storyline.  

In my opinion, had Episode 8 continued to double-down on emphasizing the importance of the Skywalkers and whatnot, then it would’ve made everything post-Skywalker Saga feel like even more of an afterthought than it already does. Furthermore, it would’ve robbed the sequel trilogy of its own identity as, thanks to TFA, it was already too similar to the original trilogy as is.

[rocknroll41]

Hollywood Reporter just confirmed today that Pattie Jenkins’s Rogue Squadron movie has been delayed indefinitely due to “production issues.”

A few days ago, a different source (Star Wars News Net) claimed her movie would be delayed, and that instead of her movie, the first new Star Wars movie to come out at Xmas 2023 would be an Old Republic movie. So I guess that’s pretty much confirmed now too.

Edited November 9, 2021 by rocknroll41

[rocknroll41]

Okay it’s now confirmed that there will be both a High Republic movie and an Old Republic movie. The High Republic movie will go first (in 2023).

The High Republic film (set a couple hundred years before the Skywalker saga) is during a time when the Sith are basically a myth. The movie will apparently be small-scale and small-budget and aimed primarily at kids. A reliable source said a few years ago that Rian Johnson’s movie was gonna be “Rated-G Star Wars,” so this is probably his.

The Old Republic film (set thousands of years in the past) is almost around the time when the Jedi and Sith first formed and were both in their primes. It’s apparently gonna be big-budget, big-scaled and aimed more at general audiences. A reliable source said last year that Taika Waititi’s movie would deal with the origins of the Jedi in some way, so this is probably his.

Its also now confirmed that Chloe Zhao (the woman who directed Nomadland and Eternals) will be directing Kevin Feige’s Star Wars movie (which is separate from the two projects above). Feige came up with the story idea, and Michael Waldron (who runs the Loki show) is fleshing out the script. We still don’t know anything story-wise about this one.

Patty Jenkins’s Rogue Squadron movie and JD Dillard’s Exegol movie are pretty much canceled, at this point.

Edited November 9, 2021 by rocknroll41

[rocknroll41]

Okay so NOW apparently Pattie Jenkins is back so the 2023 film might still be Rogue Squadron. Also apparently Chloe Zhao is not the director for Kevin Feige’s Star Wars movie anymore.

Im gonna stop updating this thread with news cause Lucasfilm keeps changing their plans every other day and I can’t keep up anymore.

Edited December 12, 2021 by rocknroll41

[hudsonsaul]

1 hour ago, rocknroll41 said:

Okay so NOW apparently Pattie Jenkins is back so the 2023 film might still be Rogue Squadron. Also apparently Chloe Zhao is not the director for Kevin Feige’s Star Wars movie anymore.

Im gonna stop updating this thread with news cause Lucasfilm keeps changing their plans every other day and I can’t keep up anymore.

Lol fair enough too. They have such knee jerk reactions to everything, how many times has news come out that a director is getting a movie or three and then it's pulled later. 

Perhaps they should stop communicating stuff to the public until whatever that is has become concrete. 

[rocknroll41]

If anyone’s curious, I just did a post on my blog detailing how I would handle post-TRoS content if I were Disney:

http://henrynsilva.blogspot.com/2021/12/my-pitch-for-future-of-star-wars.html?m=1