Covid-19 Thread

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

empirical data

Empiricism. Philosophy invented that also haha.

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

So you are basically critical of the parent, from whom the child owes everything?

The idea that without philosophy we wouldn't have had thinking, and hence the scientific method would never have developed, is hilarious. 

[soon]

1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

Well thats sort of a broad question, his writings and theories have had a pretty sizeable impact on art, art criticism, deconstructionist thought and all that, how do you quantify how something like that improves peoples lives?  Well I guess it doesn’t directly in the way soap or a flu jab does it but it serves to enrich us culturally, change the way people think etc.

Nailed it. Especially his contribution of deconstructionist thought. He developed that. And its influence can be seen throughout society today. Taking apart societal norms and questioning the nature of how they came to be and what there uses are was basically the death blow to Christendom. All sorts of societal progress from LGBT rights, racial awareness, justice reform, single mothers place in society, the way progressive laws are written and interpreted has roots in deconstruction.

His contributions can certainly be seen in art and culture. And as an example, we also see his work - as well as a lot of Foucault - referenced directly or indirectly in syllabi for those studying to work in the field of social work. And that field influences all levels of the social safety net, it informs psychotherapy, foster care/children protective services, how schools operate, etc.

All areas where progress seemed impossible under the regressive constructs of Christendom. 

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

The idea that without philosophy we wouldn't have had thinking, and hence the scientific method would never have developed, is hilarious. 

It might be hilarious but it is actually correct. If by the ''scientific method'' you mean empiricism, then you have a bunch of British philosophers to thank for that, Bacon, Locke, Hume. 

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

Empiricism. Philosophy invented that also haha.

There are a lot of things so-called philosophers developed. My point is that it came as a result of simply thinking. And yes, some philosophers developed great ideas, empiricism included, but most philosophers developed nothing of value whatsoever. Because that's how thinking is. Which brings me back to my point, we don't need philosophy, but we need great thinkers.

 

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

It might be hilarious but it is actually correct. If by the ''scientific method'' you mean empiricism, then you have a bunch of British philosophers to thank for that, Bacon, Locke, Hume. 

I have a lot of great thinkers to thank for that ;). And the scientific method could just as well have been formulated by anyone good at thinking.

 

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

There are a lot of things so-called philosophers developed. My point is that it came as a result of simply thinking. And yes, some philosophers developed great ideas, empiricism included, but most philosophers developed nothing of value whatsoever. Because that's how thinking is. Which brings me back to my point, we don't need philosophy, but we need great thinkers.

 

I have a lot of great thinkers to thank for that ;). And the scientific method could just as well have been formulated by anyone good at thinking.

 

It is a good job philosophy means ''the love of wisdom'' then, doesn't it haha?

Science owes literally its entire existence to philosophy. You are biting the hand that feeds.

[SoulMonster]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

It is a good job philosophy means ''the love of wisdom'' then, doesn't it haha?

Science owes literally its entire existence to philosophy. You are biting the hand that feeds.

But my point is that philosophy has stopped feeding, it has been made irrelevant with the advent of science. If anything I am dismissing the importance of philosophy in the modern world, not rejecting the fact that a few, rare philosophers throughout history has come up with great ideas, science included. Of course they did, after all, they were great thinkers.

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

But my point is that philosophy has stopped feeding, it has been made irrelevant with the advent of science. If anything I am dismissing the importance of philosophy in the modern world, not rejecting the fact that a few, rare philosophers throughout history has come up with great ideas, science included. Of course they did, after all, they were great thinkers.

The irony of all ironies is that your favourite thing in the entire world, atheism, was invented by philosophers haha. 

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The irony of all ironies is that your favourite thing in the entire world, atheism, was invented by philosophers haha. 

The idea that there is no god wasn't invented by philosophers. For as long as there has been humans, long before the concept of "philosophy" originated, there have been people rejecting the concept of theism. Just like the concept of theism also doesn't required philosophy. They both just required thinking. That being said, it is true that some philosophers were ateists, and of course some were.

If you really think you can rile me up by pointing out that some philosophers thought out good ideas, then you haven't understood my point at all.

Edited March 6, 2020 by SoulMonster

[action]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

But my point is that philosophy has stopped feeding, it has been made irrelevant with the advent of science. If anything I am dismissing the importance of philosophy in the modern world, not rejecting the fact that a few, rare philosophers throughout history has come up with great ideas, science included. Of course they did, after all, they were great thinkers.

your initial point was "all philosophers can go fuck themselves". strange way of thanking those people, who you now claim have come up with great ideas in the past. you're like the friend who always gets paid a drink, but who never pays a drink back.

you're basically, rejecting any point made on this board, that's based on philosophical thinking. your original point was very offensive. all sorts of opinions should be respected, even if they're from a philosophical point of view. some people are not seeking "knowledge" but seek to make sense of things, to put their emotions into words.

 

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

The idea that there is no god wasn't invented by philosophers.

Yes it rather was.

I am astonished at your ignorance. 

 

[YOUCOULDBEMINE.]

Philosophers opened a lot of doors in the old days, but I too fail to see their relevance in this day and age. But this discussion is very entertaining and a lot better than all the Covid talk, or the New Album thread 

[-Jaro-]

57 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Spunk is safer than any of us,

For a second I was assured that i'm reading wrong thread...

So 0,8% tested has corona, the rest 99,2 %  with reason to be tested are healthy, have common cold or flu...

Of those 0,8% only 2% will statisticky die...

World has to be stopped! Everyone, wear  a safesuit, close yourself in homes and wait till this plague ends!!!

Edited March 6, 2020 by -Jaro-

[YOUCOULDBEMINE.]

1 minute ago, action said:

you're like the friend who always gets paid a drink, but who never pays a drink back.

Hahaha you just basically called him Dutch, we're a country filled with 17.500.000 of those friends

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, action said:

your initial point was "all philosophers can go fuck themselves". strange way of thanking those people, who you now claim have come up with great ideas in the past.

Well, I couldn't be talking about dead philosophers, could I  I was obviously talking about modern day philosophers. 

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Yes it rather was.

I am astonished at your ignorance. 

Really? You think the idea of not believing in gods originated with philosophers? That Diagoras or whatever he was called was the first human to arrive at the conclusion that there are no gods?  

[DieselDaisy]

5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Really? You think the idea of not believing in gods originated with philosophers? That Diagoras or whatever he was called was the first human to arrive at the conclusion that there are no gods?  

Diagoras of Melos was a philosopher!

[action]

11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Well, I couldn't be talking about dead philosophers, could I  I was obviously talking about modern day philosophers. 

modern day philosophers often use ideas brought up by the dead ones.

but, never mind. I guess I'll just go fuck myself. it's still early, and it's only the third time today, so ok.

[SoulMonster]

9 minutes ago, -Jaro- said:

For a second I was assured that i'm reading wrong thread...

So 0,8% tested has corona, the rest 99,2 %  with reason to be tested are healthy, have common cold or flu...

Of those 0,8% only 2% will statisticky die...

World has to be stopped! Everyone, wear  a safesuit, close yourself in homes and wait till this plague ends!!!

I think that even in Wuhan, only 11 % of the population actually got infected. And this was when the epidemic just started out in China, likely we can keep the infection rate further down because we knew what we were dealing with immediately and started isolation procedures from the get-go. So the number of infected in Europe will hopefully be much lower than 11 %. Then there's an accumulated fatality rate of 3 % or so. But again, it will likely be much less in Europe because we have better health care systems and are prepared (well, sort of). Still, that would result in a 0.033 % chance of every random people dying. As a worst case scenario. That's 16,500 in Norway, compared to 900 who die from seasonal flu. But again, that's worst case scenario and most likely it will be much, much less.

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Diagoras of Melos was a philosopher!

Eh, I know. But surely he wasn't the innovator of the concept of there being no gods. It didn't take humanity 150,000 years to finally arrive at a fellow who had the novel idea, that, hey, maybe there are no gods!? Just because he was the first guy who said this after we invented writing and whose life is immortalized, doesn't make him the first ever. You know, humanity didn't start with the ancient Greeks, nor did thinking 

3 minutes ago, action said:

modern day philosophers often use ideas brought up by the dead ones.

Sure, but still they don't produce anything of value. Or at least that's my claim.

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

Eh, I know. But surely he wasn't the innovator of the concept of there being no gods. It didn't take humanity 150,000 years to finally arrive at a fellow who had the novel idea, that, hey, maybe there are no gods!? Just because he was the first guy who said this after we invented writing and whose life is immortalized, doesn't make him the first ever. You know, humanity didn't start with the ancient Greeks, nor did thinking 

It surely was. The only people educated and bold enough to question the extent system of received religion were a small elite literati.

[SoulMonster]

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

It surely was. The only people educated and bold enough to question the extent system of received religion were a small elite literati.

Why don't you think the idea of there not being gods could have developed in the 150,000 years predating ancient Greeks? What is it with this concept that is so advanced that it couldn't have arisen sooner but be lost to it because it didn't arise in a culture with a written language or because the written sources are long gone? is it because you think intelligence first came with the ancient Greeks?  Or that it relied on a broad theory that it took thousands upon thousands of years to develop? 

And there were no bold people before? No society existed before where it was okay to question religion? And why would it have to be a "literati"? 

Edited March 6, 2020 by SoulMonster

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

Why don't you think the idea of there not being gods could have developed in the 150,000 years predating ancient Greeks? What is it with this concept that is so advanced that it couldn't have arisen sooner but be lost to it because it didn't arise in a culture with a written language or because the written sources are long gone? is it because you think intelligence first came with the ancient Greeks?  Or that it relied on a broad theory that it took thousands upon thousands of years to develop? 

I certainly never made that claim.

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

And there were no bold people before? No society existed before where it was okay to question religion? And why would it have to be a "literati"? 

Probably because ancient societies were really ossified pertaining to class, only the upper class having access to education.

[SoulMonster]

11 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Probably because ancient societies were really ossified pertaining to class, only the upper class having access to education.

You honestly think that Greek society was the first society where any individual could have come up with the thought that, "hey, maybe gods don't exist?", despite there having been about 150,000 years of history before that with numerous societies we can only imagine how would have been, because, for unknown reasons, the simple concept of there being no gods requires upper classes and education? Really? Oh, Diesel. Stop before you make a bigger fool of yourself.

To think that there are no gods doesn't require learning, or a written language (a "literati"), or education (haha), or an upper class, or anything, really, except a mind that is willing to question established doctrine a little bit. It just requires a somewhat inquisitive mind that is willing to be a bit rebellious. Hell, there are studies from anthropology that suggest that there were stone age societies that were entirely without a belief in god. 

I don't know if it is just your inner drive to never accept I am right, or your blinding infatuation with te ancient Greeks that betrays you, or if you really are this, uhm, ignorant, but I almost feel sad for you now.

To think that the unremarkable idea that there are no gods couldn't have arisen among the millions of people living in thousands of societies predating the ancient Greek, is just astonishing. Just astonishing. 

Edited March 6, 2020 by SoulMonster

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

a mind that is willing to question established doctrine a little bit. It just requires a somewhat inquisitive mind that is willing to be a bit rebellious.

I.e., a philosopher.You have just described a philosopher haha. Congratulations.

You first mentioned the ''ancient Greeks'', however seeing as you have mentioned them, it shouldn't need to be stated that we would obviously look there first to find the earliest renderings of western atheism.