THE GENERAL - MONSTERS - Official Discussion Thread. NO LINKS OR ASKING FOR LINKS

[D..]

20 minutes ago, uzi your illusion said:

I guess a part of me just really hates to think of him as this guy who was still really fucked up almost a decade after the relationship ended, totally spent emotionally, and holed up in Malibu staring off into the ocean at all hours of the night. Most people have terrible breakups once or twice, and I can buy into him feeling things differently and more so than most. But it just bums me out to think he maybe never was able to move past it.

That's the part of him that made me a fan. I didn't give a f... about Gn'R before listening to Chinese. I enjoyed some songs on AFD & UYI but not that much. I saw old Gn'R as a cliché of a hard rock band (I've totally changed my point of view with time), I just didn't relate to anyone in this band. CD made me a fan, especially reading about him, interviews, and I then became a fan of the old era, understanding how he came to write lyrics on CD.

Axl is/was (I add "was" because he looks happier and stable now which is great for him) a man of passion, highly sensitive. There aren't that many people who are this passionate. He is/used to be a maniac, very careful to small details most people don't care about. And when you are like this, depending on the subject, you can be a maniac/have zero tolerance/hold grudges for anything. Since he's loyal (what he did with Gn'R different line-ups speaks for his degree of loyalty, not going to detail everything, any fan knows it), it must have been hell to forgive some persons he trusted more than any other.

When you're this passionate, you don't love 50 girls and just move on. There are one or two women, especially one, you never, ever forget when you're a man of passion. Depending of how great she was, what you've shared. Not everyone moves on so easily. Sure you can still hook up with several other women, but that won't heal anything.

Axl made his music as a mean of therapy, and I use his music as a therapy. I don't care for bluesy meaningless rock songs about tequila & drugs.

So this General/Monsters song is particularly important to me, it's like a missing part of the puzzle. I knew he had songs/lyrics like this in him. It's so fucking helpful. He has that talent to express raw, deep emotions with simple words and badass melodies.

I hope there are more songs but I'm more than thankful we got these.

[GnR Chris]

Axl really loved voice distortion during this era, huh? It’s all over “The General,” which, by the way, I went from, “Wow, this is pretty good” after a couple listens to, “I fucking love this.”

There’s also distortion in “Perhaps,” specifically the second verse when he sings “what a weight upon my shoulders.” Seems a random choice there and I dig it. “Absurd” obviously has the megaphone-style ranting. He really was experimenting with a different vocal styles than what he had become known for.

I hope the next song to drop is a return to more of the vintage Axl Rose vocals. I don’t need an Appetite style rocker though. That’s not what I’m saying. Axl, I think a stripped down “Atlas” in a Lies era style would be chef’s kiss and continue this trend of wildly different sounding singles. 

[Axls Rocket Queen]

WHY DOES THIS STUFF ALWAYS HAPPEN WHEN I'M AWAY!?

Catching up on all this - I'm loving how different all the new songs have been.  

[GnR Chris]

Even though I called the new Stones song “Angry” a little boring, I listened a second time. The mixing is superb. GNR needs to get on that level. 

It’s clear why oldheads love “Angry.” It’s very much a classic-sounding, bluesy rock song. And those types of people, who also love Appetite, aren’t gonna love “The General and Monsters.” Seems their reaction is one of anger. “This is NOT what I want MY Guns N’ Roses to sound like.”

I’ve even seen some people question Duff’s and Slash’s integrity for “agreeing to play on this shit and doing what Axl tells them to do.”

Eh. I think of it like this: Duff and Slash still love to write, record and release new music. Axl may not share that same passion anymore. He isn’t necessarily telling them, “Here, you have to work on these old songs.” Rather, what if he was saying he no longer has the desire to write new music, but if Slash and Duff want to release stuff under the GNR name, then have at it with the stuff in the vault that doesn’t necessitate Axl recording new vocals.

Maybe Axl is content being a performance artist these days. There’s nothing wrong with that despite me being a thirsty little bitch for any and ALL new GNR songs featuring Axl.

Edited October 29, 2023 by GnR Chris

[Miden34]

35 minutes ago, GnR Chris said:

You could be right. I listened to a little bit of the new Stones and then forgot all about it. I’ll probably never listen again though. LOL. That’s how I imagine most people consume music from legacy acts. Although the Stones are on a different level than GNR. I just checked the song you mentioned. Good goddamn. 20 mil on YouTube. 
 

EDIT: Just listened to “Angry.” I … I think it’s not very good. Kinda boring. At least on first listen. I’m curious how many “classic rock” stations will spin this song a year from now. That’s my point I guess. They seem to play new songs a couple times then go back to the same rotation of hits from yesteryear. Chicago I don’t think even has a “current” rock station. 

Hackney diamonds is a GREAT record and Angry isnt the best song on the album. Depending on you is. 

[Dani_1455]

3 minutes ago, Miden34 said:

Hackney diamonds is a GREAT record and Angry isnt the best song on the album. Depending on you is. 

Whole Wild World could be also, different oppinions

[kitstuai]

4 minutes ago, Miden34 said:

Hackney diamonds is a GREAT record and Angry isnt the best song on the album. Depending on you is. 

The most awesome thing about Hackey Diamonds is that everyone has their favourite song, nobody agree to say this one is clearly the worst or the best. My favourite one is Live by The Sword. 

Edited October 29, 2023 by kitstuai

[GnR Chris]

2 minutes ago, Miden34 said:

Hackney diamonds is a GREAT record and Angry isnt the best song on the album. Depending on you is. 

Giving that a listen now. Yeah, this one is more in my wheelhouse. I like it immediately.
 

It’d be rad if the boys in Guns would rework a song to be more like “Hackney Diamonds.” Rather, something akin to the acoustic stuff from the Lies record. Someone else said it way earlier in this thread, but that’s all I could think about now. That would of course require Axl to get in studio. 

[Miden34]

1 minute ago, kitstuai said:

The most awesome thing about Hackey Diamonds is that everyone has their favourite song, nobody agree to say this one is clearly the worst or the best. My favourite one is Live by The Sword. 

GREAT song. and i agree

[Miden34]

1 minute ago, GnR Chris said:

Giving that a listen now. Yeah, this one is more in my wheelhouse. I like it immediately.
 

It’d be rad if the boys in Guns would rework a song to be more like “Hackney Diamonds.” Rather, something akin to the acoustic stuff from the Lies record. Someone else said it way earlier in this thread, but that’s all I could think about now. That would of course require Axl to get in studio. 

I was thinking the same thing. i mean guns wrote songs like yesterday's, SCOM, Dont cry. i just dont get why we cant get more songs in that style. i dont wanna say more "Normal", but i mean these guys are VERY capable songwriters and it doesnt get showcased as well as it could be

[GnR Chris]

“Now I’m just a story you tell.” That’s a great fuckin’ line from “Depending on You.”

[GnR Chris]

2 minutes ago, Miden34 said:

I was thinking the same thing. i mean guns wrote songs like yesterday's, SCOM, Dont cry. i just dont get why we cant get more songs in that style. i dont wanna say more "Normal", but i mean these guys are VERY capable songwriters and it doesnt get showcased as well as it could be

As far as “normal” songs, I can almost guarantee if something like “Actions Speak Louder Than Words” (from 4) was a GNR song, people would herald it as “the return of classic Guns.” But now I want something unplugged. I was always fascinated by the Rose Bar or L’arc shows. 

[Miden34]

3 minutes ago, GnR Chris said:

“Now I’m just a story you tell.” That’s a great fuckin’ line from “Depending on You.”

Dude i've been so hooked on that song since i heard it. its fantastic. 

Just now, GnR Chris said:

As far as “normal” songs, I can almost guarantee if something like “Actions Speak Louder Than Words” (from 4) was a GNR song, people would herald it as “the return of classic Guns.” But now I want something unplugged. I was always fascinated by the Rose Bar or L’arc shows. 

I also second this. And while i think general is unique and monsters is pretty good, A reworked state of grace i feel like, could be a pretty big hit for them. 

[rumandraisin]

I feel like I'm going mad and State Of Grace is just being repeated at me. Tbh I would've rather it came out instead of TheGen so we can stop talking about it...

[GnR Chris]

5 minutes ago, rumandraisin said:

I feel like I'm going mad and State Of Grace is just being repeated at me. Tbh I would've rather it came out instead of TheGen so we can stop talking about it...

Whether it was intended as a trilogy, or “State of Grace” pre-dates “The General and Monsters,” “SoG” definitely is reminiscent of “Monsters.” It’s the same kinda structure with an insanely angey bridge. I wonder if they eventually used the framework of “State of Grace” to create something similar but wholly different in “Monsters.” And perhaps preferred it so “State of Grace” was B-listed (in their minds).

I can’t see “State of Grace” getting a release anytime soon just because of the similarities. First thing’s first though. Let’s get an official release of “The General and Monsters.” 😂 

[rumandraisin]

3 minutes ago, GnR Chris said:

Whether it was intended as a trilogy, or “State of Grace” pre-dates “The General and Monsters,” “SoG” definitely is reminiscent of “Monsters.” It’s the same kinda structure with an insanely angey bridge. I wonder if they eventually used the framework of “State of Grace” to create something similar but wholly different in “Monsters.” And perhaps preferred it so “State of Grace” was B-listed (in their minds).

I can’t see “State of Grace” getting a release anytime soon just because of the similarities. First thing’s first though. Let’s get an official release of “The General and Monsters.” 😂 

A good point. Even if State was worked on further it'd be weird to put it out this close to something similar. 

[Miden34]

29 minutes ago, Dani_1455 said:

Whole Wild World could be also, different oppinions

Great song!

[iftheworld]

Well I've been around for a very long time, past the d-o-b of this account, and I can say with all my heart because I'm the biggest Axl supporter there is, The General is extremely overproduced and needs to be reworked. I love the beat of Monsters but if I took the song and asked myself "Would it fit on a GNR album?", I'd say, "no". Now if they made a darker album and threw Oh My God on there with Monsters, I could see that working. But for me, these songs are so overproduced and ultimately this is what happens when you have almost twenty years to adjust and noodle with art. Eventually, you ask yourself "Is it my art anymore?". Sometimes, less is more.

[GnR Chris]

1 minute ago, iftheworld said:

Well I've been around for a very long time, past the d-o-b of this account, and I can say with all my heart because I'm the biggest Axl supporter there is, The General is extremely overproduced and needs to be reworked. I love the beat of Monsters but if I took the song and asked myself "Would it fit on a GNR album?", I'd say, "no". Now if they made a darker album and threw Oh My God on there with Monsters, I could see that working. But for me, these songs are so overproduced and ultimately this is what happens when you have almost twenty years to adjust and noodle with art. Eventually, you ask yourself "Is it my art anymore?". Sometimes, less is more.

Sometimes less is definitely more. But Axl clearly wanted ”The General” to sound like this. I don’t think it’s due to 20 years of tinkering or whatever. I’m willing to wager even in their infancy, the distorted vocals were there, you know what I mean? If anything, you’d think the opposite would be true of sitting on a song for a couple decades. Maybe you’d rethink the effects and strip it down. But they didn’t do that, so ultimately, this was Axl’s vision for the song in respect to the vocals.

My own personal opinion? I think they could have done the first chorus clean, second chorus distorted. The end of the song is great as is, IMO. Said it here a bunch, but Axl’s harmonizing with the guitar at the end is basically is akin to layered guitars playing the same notes. I’m here for it.

Now, would “The General and Monsters” by itself fit on a GNR record? No. And that’s why Axl didn’t put it on Chinese Democracy. I’m paraphrasing, but I believe he said CD had more songs that weren’t as radical a departure from the Guns N’ Roses people knew. But the second record was gonna go heavier. I’m not sure what that would have looked like back then. But it’s easy to imagine something like the following songs all on one short album:

“Silkworms,” “State of Grace,” “The General and Monsters,” “Oh My God,” “Blood in the Water”

Then, since I’m fantasizing, a third album could have returned to some of the ballads and rockers.  “Atlas Shrugged,” “Going Down,” “Perhaps,” and “Hard Skool.”

[pbj_jam]

Speaking of Fnm vibe, it's clear Axl was inspired by Patton since he heard TRT, and ever more so in the CD era with the layering heavy distorted voice(s), like almost full on impression.

 

If we believe the songs are together as one, they have to create some transition, right? Otherwise interesting artistic choice to put it mildly.

[GnR Chris]

If this band put out a fuck ton of records in their career, there wouldn’t be this type of controversy over experimental songs, or songs that didn’t have the old school blues-based r&r sound. We’d just be like, “Well, the next one might be a return to the old sound.”

But even some bands who put out a bunch of records never return to their roots. The new Menzingers record continues their trend away from their punk roots and wholly embraces a type of folksy, Americana style of rock. And some of the old fans are disappointed. But much like Guns, I like the entire Menzingers catalog and enjoy the new stuff.

But then the opposite can be true for other bands I was once super into. I loved The Killers in that small window of time when they put out Hot Fuss, Sam’s Town, and Sawdust. They started losing me a little with Day & Age. Then came Battle Born, which seemed like The Killers trying to do their version of Bruce Springsteen. Nowadays, I rarely check in on their newer releases, though I’ve liked a couple of their recent singles.

[pbj_jam]

It's overproduced in the ear of a gnr fan solely by looking at what came before, but heck even Illusions were overproduced some claimed, you were warned.

 

Ears and eyes mixed up, you get it

Edited October 29, 2023 by pbj_jam
Blooper

[Voodoochild]

Not sure why people say it's overproduced. Those songs don't have layers and layers like CD songs, its much simpler. 

2 hours ago, Free Bird said:

It's funny, isn't it? All these comments about Slash ain't able to deliver anymore and everybody wants Bucket instead... and now they can't even keep apart their playing 

What I find amusing is that people honestly think Slash can't play this stuff. Wonder if they payed any attention to Paradise City's outro solo. That shit is crazy and it's very hard (and tiring) to play.

1 hour ago, GnR Chris said:

Axl really loved voice distortion during this era, huh? It’s all over “The General,” which, by the way, I went from, “Wow, this is pretty good” after a couple listens to, “I fucking love this.”

There’s also distortion in “Perhaps,” specifically the second verse when he sings “what a weight upon my shoulders.” Seems a random choice there and I dig it. “Absurd” obviously has the megaphone-style ranting. He really was experimenting with a different vocal styles than what he had become known for.

Axl used distortion in Estranged too, the part "I don't know how you're supposed to find me lately..". 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Voodoochild

[kozydogg]

1 hour ago, GnR Chris said:

Even though I called the new Stones song “Angry” a little boring, I listened a second time. The mixing is superb. GNR needs to get on that level. 

It’s clear why oldheads love “Angry.” It’s very much a classic-sounding, bluesy rock song. And those types of people, who also love Appetite, aren’t gonna love “The General and Monsters.” Seems their reaction is one of anger. “This is NOT what I want MY Guns N’ Roses to sound like.”

I’ve even seen some people question Duff’s and Slash’s integrity for “agreeing to play on this shit and doing what Axl tells them to do.”

Eh. I think of it like this: Duff and Slash still love to write, record and release new music. Axl may not share that same passion anymore. He isn’t necessarily telling them, “Here, you have to work on these old songs.” Rather, what if he was saying he no longer has the desire to write new music, but if Slash and Duff want to release stuff under the GNR name, then have at it with the stuff in the vault that doesn’t necessitate Axl recording new vocals.

Maybe Axl is content being a performance artist these days. There’s nothing wrong with that despite me being a thirsty little bitch for any and ALL new GNR songs featuring Axl.

I'd maybe buy into this theory, but then I think it goes out the door when you consider that he took the time to record vocals for Rock the Rock.

I still think Axl wants to record new music, but I think the circumstances have to be right for him. Whatever that is...

[ZoSoRose]

The General’s chorus is heavy as fuck through a good sound system