Will rock music ever make a commercial comeback?

[Towelie]

I keep waiting for it. We haven't discussed this topic in at least six months and I'm nothing if not original.

It's been a good ten years since any rock act really made a big splash commercially speaking (last I can think of was Arctic Monkeys, shite as they were). The vast majority of rock acts that sell out decent venues and still shift albums are veteran acts who've been going since Maggie Thatcher fucked over the miners. Do you think there will ever be a revival of rock music or is the genre done?

Edited March 7, 2016 by Towelie

[classicrawker]

Tough time for being a musician as the record business is in the shitter and bands don't get the chance to develop anymore.

Peter Frampton was on Howard Stern this week and pointed out Humble Pie put out 3-4 unsuccessful albums before the Live Fillmore album broke them. Same with his solo career he put our several albums before Frampton comes a live broke.

That will never happen in todays music business where a band needs instant success.

As far as Rock making a comeback. it will be harder but everything runs in cycles so I can see at least a minor revival happening eventually.

[Len Cnut]

No.  And hip hop has peaked too so there's a bit of a void there, musically.  It's the attachment to youth culture that we are talking about really, aren't we?  Perhaps thats just not the thing anymore, perhaps 50 or so years was just the run that it had and now it's done.  I just can't see people getting excited about a band again.  Oasis was the last one and that was fuckin' yonks ago and even then it weren't as big in the US as it was here and certain places in Europe or South America.  So Nirvana really.  Fuck me, thats like...what, coming on 30 years ago now? 

[Len Cnut]

17 minutes ago, classicrawker said:

Tough time for being a musician as the record business is in the shitter and bands don't get the chance to develop anymore.

Peter Frampton was on Howard Stern this week and pointed out Humble Pie put out 3-4 unsuccessful albums before the Live Fillmore album broke them. Same with his solo career he put our several albums before Frampton comes a live broke.

That will never happen in todays music business where a band needs instant success.

As far as Rock making a comeback. it will be harder but everything runs in cycles so I can see at least a minor revival happening eventually.

I just think they have to work for it now, thats what independent bands are doing, just touring like fuck and then using that money to record and then release and then touring like fuck for the next one, it ain't profitable like it used to be, you've got to REALLY love being a musician but if you wannabe a rockstar, if thats what cranks your cock about the whole thing well then you're outta luck cuz there ain't that kinda money in the industry anymore. 

You could possibly get to that point eventually if you got the talent but who the fuck wants to do that. 

Edited March 7, 2016 by Len B'stard

[Rovim]

It had a very good run. I think I've heard the "best" already, but I'd like to hear new interpretations. Will it be as good as Jimi? no. But there's always something cool to listen to eventually. It did peak though imo long ago. Think of classical music or Blues or Jazz. A lot has been said and a lot of what was said was brilliant musically. Can still mine the same shit but the alternative is different and fresh blends and new musical twists that can breed new creative work.

Like John Frusciante for example. He combines all sorts of shit and it's actually forward looking and of high artistic value.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Rovim

[DieselDaisy]

I do not think people are as bothered about music in general now to be honest. Footballers are the new rock stars; video games the new albums; American television shows more interesting then reading rock magazines. The world has so much access to different media now. Rock no longer has that pivotal big cultural shift aspect, where everybody listens to the exact same thing and changes accordingly.

[Georgy Zhukov]

We had a top 40 station on at work after an hour I changed it to the classic rock station. It has been several weeks before anyone has changed it. 

[Rovim]

Great music reflects the time it was created in, in many cases. So some new music will always have value. But you're never gonna get The Beatles again and you're never gonna top the original. But it's art, so you just find something nu to say in a cool way. At least that's how it goes in this specific genre, or you go retro and that's also pretty good. Like Guns for example. Appetite came from that but that's over as well.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Rovim

[gunsfanoldie]

Like you, I've been waiting for it to make a comeback, but awhile ago I just conceded it probably won't and I'll just be happily surprised if and when it does.

I think the last big burst was 2005 or so. Green Day's American Idiot and My Chemical Romance's Welcome To The Black Parade were the last gasps of mainstream money making rock. I didn't like either of those bands before those albums, but they made fantastic rock records, that most importantly made an impact on mainstream. To me, that was the culmination of stuff that had been brewing. Stuff like Jet's Get Born that were doing well and had an audience but not yet huge. Velvet Revolver also falls into that whole thing. That whole 2005/2006 period.

Since then, I truly don't think we've had a shot in the arm. We haven't even been close. Nothing makes an impact. Foo Fighters is the closest, and only, thing we've got that's mainstream and even Wasting Light wasn't at the level of 2005/2006. Like I've said in the past, I blame a lot of things. I blame the internet, I blame Napster. I don't buy a single thing anymore and thats sad, but its just the state of music right now. No one thinks its worth paying for, and if they do its usually too expensive. I never liked $13 for a CD. And then you've also got (equally responsible IMO) the band's just not being as consistent anymore. You don't have a Zeppelin making great album after great album anymore. Everybody I find makes one, maybe two, good albums then thats all that matters. There's no consistency.

Bad example, but Taddy Porter was a GREAT band that opened for Slash in 2010. They had an excellent debut album that I bought at the show. After that, they made a beyond awful second record, now have promised a third record forever and never delivered. They basically gave up. Same happened when I saw a band open for Steel Panther. This band Ground Zero were AMAZING. I told them as much after their set. I begged for an album, they said it was coming. I emailed them a full year later, they sent me some samples and said a record was coming. That was 3 years ago, it never came. So in many ways I blame the public, but in others I really blame the bands. Maybe they have the fire and there's just no outlet, but these bands I've found just seem to have a gasp then never fully take it to the limit. They fizzle out, give up, stop caring. Its sad, cause they could have been great. I would have given them a bit more credit had they toured constantly but they don't. Taddy Porter didn't do anything and now play a show or two in Nashville, and Ground Zero literally plays maybe a show a month in LA. The Answer is another band thats the same way! Had a great opening slot for AC/DC, had a great debut, had a decent second album, then literally barely ever came back to the US, made mediocre after mediocre album after that, and went nowhere. You won't make an impact that way. Again, I don't know what it is, but everyone just fades away these days.

Sorry, but as you can see this topic gets me pretty heated. I'd like to not blame these bands. I know I'm part of the problem. But some of these bands I would kill to see and they just do nothing. Silvertide, a GREAT band from 2003 that had no success reunited 2 years ago. Saw a reunion show and it was amazing. They promised new material, they delivered one song, then got mad at fans essentially cause they couldn't all commit to it. To me, thats the type of attitude that has prevented rock bands from being great these days. But obviously they are isolated examples.

[Len Cnut]

I think it's possible it's just you have to take a novel inventive approach and the...presentation of it has to be very contrived.  Firstly it'd have to have some kind of dance influence, some way you could play it in clubs cuz that makes a song these days.  Always has really but now more than ever.  Another thing is like...you've got to tie them into some kind of fashion, some kind of contemporary thing.  Thirdly you can't just have gigs/touring/load your shit into a van and go cross country type mentality, you've got to have like...happenings, unique one of fuckin' gigs, people have a tendency to mythologise this kind of stuff.  Also, you need seriously talented musicians, you aint gonna get no mass acceptance based on some sort of punk racket.  It's got to have a nod to contemporary styles like hip hop etc without actually being a crap version of it or just having some whiteboy rapping over it like a mug, i just mean musically, rhythmically it's got to cover that base.  And they've gotta be fuckin' working class yobbos with a bit of wit about em, no one wants anymore cardigan wearing college boys with tattoo and shit haircuts.  

I've just described the fuckin' Stone Roses basically, haven't I?

Edited March 7, 2016 by Len B'stard

[gunsfanoldie]

2 minutes ago, Len B'stard said:

I think it's possible it's just you have to take a novel inventive approach and the...presentation of it has to be very contrived.  Firstly it'd have to have some kind of dance influence, some way you could play it in clubs cuz that makes a song these days.  Always has really but now more than ever.  Another thing is like...you've got to tie them into some kind of fashion, some kind of contemporary thing.  Thirdly you can't just have gigs/touring/load your shit into a van and go cross country type mentality, you've got to have like...happenings, unique one of fuckin' gigs, people have a tendency to mythologise this kind of stuff.  Also, you need seriously talented musicians, you aint gonna get no mass acceptance based on some sort of punk racket.  It's got to have a nod to contemporary styles like hip hop etc without actually being a crap version of it or just having some whiteboy rapping over it like a mug, i just mean musically, rhythmically it's got to cover that base.  And they've gotta be fuckin' working class yobbos with a bit of wit about em, no one wants anymore cardigan wearing college boys with tattoo and shit haircuts.  

I've just described the fuckin' Stone Roses basically, haven't I?

Kind of makes you never want to enter the whole business to begin with .

I don't know what it is. I'm not a musician, so I can't really speak from that view. Obviously I know its difficult for them. I guess when you think about it some of the best bands weren't going for success, they just played and it happened. Guns didn't make Appetite to be a blockbuster. It just became that huge monster. Same with so many others. I don't think Zeppelin tried to reinvent the wheel. They just did their thing and it worked. Bands like the Grateful Dead did what they did till people just said "fine, we'll make you famous!" lol. It happens different for everyone.

A band like the Foo Fighters I give massive amounts of respect to, especially Dave Grohl. Against all odds, he did it. He had the benefit of music videos and that early 2000s semi-rock boom, but it was hard work to get Foo Fighters where it is today. They didn't really reach their peak level till like 2007 with the Pretender. What was their next step? One of the best albums of their career in Wasting Light. Now they are solidified as one of those "bands people will see just cause of the name" types of things. It made me so happy (and sad, but more happy) when they played baseball stadiums this past year and it was like, the thing that "oh, my boss is giving away Foo Fighters tickets". They finally became full on mainstream to everyone. Not that they are the Stones or anything, but in this environment that is a huge deal. I wish Dave wasn't the only "rock star" people called on, but god damn it he deserves it. He worked tirelessly for 20 years to make this band what they are and make himself as rich as he is. I think he deserves every penny and ounce of respect he gets. He did it the right way.

I don't know where I was going with that lol. Maybe that other bands don't work as hard as him? I just think a lot of bands give up too easily these days. Bands like Humble Pie, Cheap Trick, KISS didn't have huge appeal till a live album hit, but they kept at it. And on top of it those albums were good. With all the modes of release these days, I don't understand why bands aren't just hammering away, releasing album after album, in their basements, using their computers. Maybe it sounds so much easier than it really is. I don't know how a band could be Oasis, or Green Day, or Foo Fighters these days.

[Len Cnut]

I think you have a point with the giving up thing, thing about music in a pop music sense, like mainstream chart music etc the measure of success isn't making music that you find creatively satisfying, the measure of success is big time recognition etc which if you don't get people can't be bothered.  Really it should be to the benefit of the music because you'd think that the people that'd be left over would be very musically inclined and break new ground etc, sort of like the punk movement when everyone realised there was no money in it the people left were people just REALLY into music who made really inventive and original music...but it goes back to the same thing, there's no money in it.

And really, what are we asking for?  Just good tunes?  Or some sort of generational consensus where everybody loves 'x' band and thinks they're great and they are great and we get to follow this big rise and fall.  Is that really what we want?  If so then why?  And who among us would care to live that out for an audience?  Who would care THAT much about music in this day and age to where they would be interested in handling the pressures that that offers.  I mean for The Beatles, Stones etc, that kind of mass fame/adulation etc, it was still kind of a novel thing in society, only Elvis really had it before them...now it's kind of an oft-tread road and the only way for it to not be incredibly trite and boring is for someone to rip up that format. 

Honestly though, say we had the next Beatles, they released like....what was it 4 or 5 albums they had before Sgt Pepper?  Anyway, they get to that stage of fame and wealth...you have to REALLY care about music and really believe in what you're doing and really feel there is a greater point and purpose for you to carry on, you have to really put yourself out there...and once you're in a sense set up for life, who would want to do that?  I think it's a lot of pressure that our own self awareness makes all the more greater, whereas those early big phenomenon bands, though I'm sure (and it is written) that they felt immense pressure and had a tough time of it in their own way it most likely isn't as tough as it is now because...like they said themselves, it's like being in the eye of a hurricane, you dont really have the time to think about it whereas now we kind of think about and are aware of every step and the attendant pressure, it must take a lot of character to do that kind of thing and not...crack.  Which is why i pointed out that it'd have to be working class boys because they are the only people who are going to fall in love with that kind of thing because when you've nothing to fall back on but a labouring job in Dagenham somewhere then playing 90 minutes set a night and then being allowed to drink as much as you like and shag birds-a-plenty seems a lot more of an appealing proposition.  

Quite frankly it is just not popular to be the kind of man it takes to be in these bands.  I mean, for all queerness and the sissyness associated with The Stones and The Beatles etc etc, they were very much red blooded young men of an archetype that is very...stone age really.  I mean generally speaking society looks down on men with those sorts of inclinations if they don't have a...what am i trying to say here?  Shagging and drinking and hijinks and wrecking hotel rooms and being generally boorish doesn't carry the same thing with it that it did back in the day, people with those sorts of inclinations really would get pilloried in the press today.  There's a very working class work ethic required to pull off a massive band too.  It's no mistake that all the big ones have come from sort of working class backgrounds...even the ones that were, according to their times, quite middle class, like certain members of The Stones, relative to a band like Keane or whatever they were really quite rough round the edges.  

Overall though i just think it's a different day now, a version of that could possibly be dragged up in this era but broadly speaking a lot of the charm is gone from that sort of thing, it's routine to the point of tedium, the rock band timeline of massive debut, sophmore jinx, third 'throw everything but the kitchen sink at it' album, fourth massive double album etc etc and so forth til the obligatory ego clashes and break ups, if they even get that far, hip hop has kind of invented it's own sort of timeline for that kind of thing, which has rapidly become tedious now too.  

To sum it up though, i don't think people are willing to give of themselves for that kind of music anymore.  The idea, the notion that once existed that you could make some kind of a difference to something or give a worthwhile contribution to culture or change something in society by way of a band that makes pop music is long gone now, there is none of that wonderful romance to it anymore, which is why it is dead.  A lot of it is the fault of movements like punk and bands like Nirvana too, rightly or wrongly they worked very hard to deconstruct the mythology around rock n roll and here, today, in 2016 its very difficult to deny that they were successful at it, because hey, here we are right?  It's sort of done with.  

Also, there's nothing like watching rockstars grow old and crusty and wrinkley to really put the kibosh on all that wonderful romance and mythology.  Then they try and sell you some butter or some insurance and your eyes really open.  Romance is very important i think, with music, there has to be something romantic about it and when that dies the music goes with it.  

Edited March 8, 2016 by Len B'stard

[J Dog]

5 hours ago, Georgy Zhukov said:

We had a top 40 station on at work after an hour I changed it to the classic rock station. It has been several weeks before anyone has changed it. 

I listened some to the new rock station the other day. No lie, there was a stretch of either 3 or 4 songs and I'm not sure there was guitar in any of them.

 

I hope it makes a comeback but it doesn't look good. You're going to need some kind of originality to come around to make it happen.

I've never been a big Shinedown fan and they always were a radio type of band, but this is their new song. Doesn't even sound like rock. And this is one of your most popular and I'm sure best selling bands of the past ten years or so.

 

 

[gunsfanoldie]

45 minutes ago, J Dog said:

I listened some to the new rock station the other day. No lie, there was a stretch of either 3 or 4 songs and I'm not sure there was guitar in any of them.

 

I hope it makes a comeback but it doesn't look good. You're going to need some kind of originality to come around to make it happen.

I've never been a big Shinedown fan and they always were a radio type of band, but this is their new song. Doesn't even sound like rock. And this is one of your most popular and I'm sure best selling bands of the past ten years or so.

 

 

Shinedown was another one of those bands that had one big album (Sound Of Madness), and I'm using "big" liberally, then went absolutely nowhere. I never really liked them, but that Sound Of Madness album had like 2 big singles that got played a lot on my local modern radio station. Then, of course, just like everyone else, they went absolutely nowhere. Everything after either sounded exactly the same but worse, or a complete departure towards something more "radio friendly". I'll give you that I guess they are one of the "bigger" bands in the last 10 years, but thats sad cause they've really gone nowhere. I feel they're at the same level as Theory Of Deadman, who also had one "big" album then went nowhere.

And yeah, that Shinedown song isn't that great. At least Sound Of Madness was heavy. This sounds like a poor excuse for an arena anthem.

@Len B'stard really sums it up well. That sadly does seem like a good summation.

Edited March 8, 2016 by gunsfanoldie

[gunsfanoldie]

Then again, this is also why many of us said the GNR reunion came too late. The scene is deader now so the reaction is much more muted. Had it come in 2005/2006, it would have been major because rock was still a big deal. Yes, they are not promoting it in a way that will make it headline news everywhere and talked about at the level it should be, but had it been done 10 years ago this tour would have taken over the world. Even if they were promoting it properly it wouldn't have the same impact. Maybe reunions were the last gasp of rock in the 2000s. Did anything major in rock news happen after the Zeppelin and DLR Van Halen reunion shows/tours in 2007?

[Strange Broue]

19 hours ago, Towelie said:

I keep waiting for it. We haven't discussed this topic in at least six months and I'm nothing if not original.

It's been a good ten years since any rock act really made a big splash commercially speaking (last I can think of was Arctic Monkeys, shite as they were). The vast majority of rock acts that sell out decent venues and still shift albums are veteran acts who've been going since Maggie Thatcher fucked over the miners. Do you think there will ever be a revival of rock music or is the genre done?

For example Muse is a rock act (if Queen is a rock act :lol:)

They are one of the most successful bands of the last 15 years and sell out stadiums/festivals

 

I for one, doesn't give a shit about commercialism

There is plenty of good acts out there, though

and yeah ,"rock is dead yadda, yadda."... who cares

Edited March 8, 2016 by Strange Broue

[liers]

The best shot we have right now is audioslave.

Cornell had a hit with his solo stuff. Audioslave had cross over hits like I am the Highwayand Be Yourself. An audioslave reunion could bring some new hits.

Chickenfoot had a couple of rock hits. But nothing that crossed over.

The Pretty Reckless had successon rock radio, but outside of that, no one knows of them.

If Weiland had cooperated and promoted Art of Anarchy, songs like Long Ago may have had a chance.

I suppose GnR could produce a cross over hit, something like prostitute with Slash... you know the label is going to be pushing new material with Slash on it very strongly.

[Jakey Styley]

Len summed up really well what it'd take for a rock act to be popular again. It's gonna take a lot more than really good music, it has to have a connection to youth culture at mass. I don't see a rock act doing that with the way things are right now.

Rock's pretty "uncool", sad to say.

[wasted]

Digital media is the antithesis of rock n roll. 

Brands let the consumer build the braand. And that's what rock audiences want now. So the spirit of shamanism is dead as a market. Should it be a market I don't know. I like the idea of a millionaire shaman running amok. They always throw the best rain dance. 

[dontdamnmeuyi2015]

I don't think rock music needs it.

Any concert that I've gone to years ago and up to now, has been sold out with so many rock fans.

Rock will always be popular with the fans even if it doesn't get the respect it deserves.

[DieselDaisy]

35 minutes ago, dontdamnmeuyi2015 said:

I don't think rock music needs it.

Any concert that I've gone to years ago and up to now, has been sold out with so many rock fans.

Rock will always be popular with the fans even if it doesn't get the respect it deserves.

 

That is fair enough yet I hasten to bet that nearly all of the rock concerts you've seen, the more recent ones, were performed by people in the forty plus category?

It is as if the well ran dry at some point circa Nirvana-Oasis time, and all you are left with are the same ossifying bunch of wrinklys raking in the cash. Even the generation that produced grunge, Guns N' Roses and Britrock, who are all comparative spring chickens compared to your great 60s and 70s acts, are in their late '40s - early '50s!

It is not so much a question of, 'where is the next great rock band coming from, comprising of teenagers tearing it up in their garage''? It is a question of, where is the great twenty something act, or thirty something act? You could almost stick ''Here lies rock n' roll, born 1955, died 1994'' on a gravestone and leave it at that.

[Len Cnut]

John Denver sells out concerts too, i don't think selling places out is the point.

[mike bibby]

No, it peaked and really went as far as it could go years ago.

It will become like jazz before long. Jazz was the most popular musical genre for like 30 years then it just peaked, then was replaced & just kinda faded away.

Rock music will always exist but its time of being influential, fresh & the most popular form of music is long gone.

[Len Cnut]

I think we're all missing a pertinent point here too.  The songs are shit.  I mean if there were good songs that everybody got into, that band'd be massive...but there ain't so there ain't so here we are.  And i don't have no truck for all these people going 'oh songs are there man, you just gotta look for em now', really, what in the age of the internet, the age of instant accessibility, the age where everyones got everything to hand at the click of a button, walking around with em in their pocket? No no no sonny jim, I'll tell you when it was hard, it was hard when you had to take 10 quid of your hard earned money and stick it on the counter for something you might've heard a couple of songs off of or when your mate told you something was a bangin' album or you just took a fancy to the cover, THAT was when you had to look hard, now it's all there, all for free, all at the touch of your fingertips.

So yeah, the songs are shit.  'well i like em', yeah well thats sort of the fuckin' problem isn't it, there's one or ten or forty people every fuckin' where that like something, it's when a thing crosses all kinds of fuckin' boundaries and is popular across the board is when something is really doing it, i mean since what we're essentially talking about is why a particular genre is brilliant.  Everyone always goes on (myself included) about attitude and stance and all that which is all well and good but if the songs are shit i don't really give a fuck about your attitude or stance to be honest.  It'd be nice to have the whole bundle in one but I wouldn't mind a wanker that could make great songs, i'd take the tunes over the attitude to be honest.  Where the fuck are the tunes in rock music?  Nowhere cuz it's fans are so in love with whats been done already that they don't fancy contributing.  There's none of that healthy dislike or disregard or sense of competition against what came before like...y'know, respect is great in it's place but don't let respect stop you from putting your own marker down.  

Thats about it though i think, the songs are shit, cuz getting heard certainly ain't a problem in this day and age.  Christ Almighty Justin Beiber, the biggest singer around today for kids, or one of em, if I'm not mistaken was just some wanker on youtube, was he not?  Correct me if I'm wrong but thats how he got famous right, it weren't off of Americans Got Talented Checkout Operators or anything was it?  Well there you fuckin' go then.

[wasted]

4 hours ago, Len B'stard said:

I think we're all missing a pertinent point here too.  The songs are shit.  I mean if there were good songs that everybody got into, that band'd be massive...but there ain't so there ain't so here we are.  And i don't have no truck for all these people going 'oh songs are there man, you just gotta look for em now', really, what in the age of the internet, the age of instant accessibility, the age where everyones got everything to hand at the click of a button, walking around with em in their pocket? No no no sonny jim, I'll tell you when it was hard, it was hard when you had to take 10 quid of your hard earned money and stick it on the counter for something you might've heard a couple of songs off of or when your mate told you something was a bangin' album or you just took a fancy to the cover, THAT was when you had to look hard, now it's all there, all for free, all at the touch of your fingertips.

So yeah, the songs are shit.  'well i like em', yeah well thats sort of the fuckin' problem isn't it, there's one or ten or forty people every fuckin' where that like something, it's when a thing crosses all kinds of fuckin' boundaries and is popular across the board is when something is really doing it, i mean since what we're essentially talking about is why a particular genre is brilliant.  Everyone always goes on (myself included) about attitude and stance and all that which is all well and good but if the songs are shit i don't really give a fuck about your attitude or stance to be honest.  It'd be nice to have the whole bundle in one but I wouldn't mind a wanker that could make great songs, i'd take the tunes over the attitude to be honest.  Where the fuck are the tunes in rock music?  Nowhere cuz it's fans are so in love with whats been done already that they don't fancy contributing.  There's none of that healthy dislike or disregard or sense of competition against what came before like...y'know, respect is great in it's place but don't let respect stop you from putting your own marker down.  

Thats about it though i think, the songs are shit, cuz getting heard certainly ain't a problem in this day and age.  Christ Almighty Justin Beiber, the biggest singer around today for kids, or one of em, if I'm not mistaken was just some wanker on youtube, was he not?  Correct me if I'm wrong but thats how he got famous right, it weren't off of Americans Got Talented Checkout Operators or anything was it?  Well there you fuckin' go then.

You just old. We past that impressionable age when we think Baby, Baby is great, like I thought I Should be so Lucky was genius. 

Also accessibility breeds contempt. I listen to too much music. Once you have more than 100 metal albums, a new release has to be mind blowing. And that happens once a decade at best. 

And still we not culturally primed to get it. I just don't get the I want to suck brand dick on twitter. I mean I like nice stuff but that's not my mind set for music or like a hobby i want to pursue. 

lolmusic as they say #cultural apocalypse #theendofculture #fuckhashtags