British Politics

[AtariLegend]

Impact assessment of Brexit on the UK 'don't exist'

The government has not carried out an impact assessment of leaving the EU on the UK economy, Brexit Secretary David Davis has told MPs.

"There's no sort of systematic impact assessment," Mr Davis told the Brexit committee.

He said the government had produced a "sectoral analysis" of different industries but not a "forecast" of what would happen when the UK leaves the EU.

A "very major contingency planning operation" is in place, he added.

Committee chairman Hilary Benn asked whether impact assessments had been carried into various parts of the economy, listing the automotive, aerospace and financial sectors.
"I think the answer's going to be no to all of them," Mr Davis responded.
When Mr Benn suggested this was "strange", the minister said formal assessments were not needed to know that "regulatory hurdles" would have an impact.
"I am not a fan of economic models because they have all proven wrong," he added.
There has been a long-running row over the government's Brexit studies and their publication.
On 1 November MPs passed a motion to release "Brexit impact assessments" to the Brexit Committee of MPs. In response, the government said this motion "misunderstood" what the documents actually were, but has since provided an edited set of reports to the committee.
Mr Davis told the committee this represented "getting as close as we can to meeting what we took to be the intent of Parliament".

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42249854

Even the Russian troll bots are having a hard time now convincing people that this is a good thing in the comments section.

Few select tweets;

 

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2017 by AtariLegend

[Dazey]

11 minutes ago, AtariLegend said:

Impact assessment of Brexit on the UK 'don't exist'

The government has not carried out an impact assessment of leaving the EU on the UK economy, Brexit Secretary David Davis has told MPs.

"There's no sort of systematic impact assessment," Mr Davis told the Brexit committee.

He said the government had produced a "sectoral analysis" of different industries but not a "forecast" of what would happen when the UK leaves the EU.

A "very major contingency planning operation" is in place, he added.

Committee chairman Hilary Benn asked whether impact assessments had been carried into various parts of the economy, listing the automotive, aerospace and financial sectors.
"I think the answer's going to be no to all of them," Mr Davis responded.
When Mr Benn suggested this was "strange", the minister said formal assessments were not needed to know that "regulatory hurdles" would have an impact.
"I am not a fan of economic models because they have all proven wrong," he added.
There has been a long-running row over the government's Brexit studies and their publication.
On 1 November MPs passed a motion to release "Brexit impact assessments" to the Brexit Committee of MPs. In response, the government said this motion "misunderstood" what the documents actually were, but has since provided an edited set of reports to the committee.
Mr Davis told the committee this represented "getting as close as we can to meeting what we took to be the intent of Parliament".

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42249854

Even the Russian troll bots are having a hard time now convincing people that this is a good thing in the comments section.

Few select tweets;

 

 

 

 

It's almost as if they haven't got a fucking clue what they're doing.

[Padme]

@Dazey You're right! They don't have a fuckin clue. Maybot being Maybot "Nothing is agreed until everything is agreed" What kind of unswer is that? And now the DUP want to be part of the negotiation team. Well if they are, then all the political parties should be. This Brexit bullshit is a fuckin laberynth. And nobody knows how to find a way out. It is time to call Brexit off. This unecessary and stupid experiment is a total disaster.

[AtariLegend]

Just a reminder that the DUP are basically UKIP with paramilitary ties/former members.

It's a complete disgrace this hasn't been brought up. They are a protestant version of Sinn Finn only they support different terrorists. 

Why the fuck hasn't there been more of a backlash by Tory voters on this and why are the media pretending the DUP are just like any other right wing party.

This country is a fucking mess.

[DieselDaisy]

I do not know why you lot worry about this? You are all just stressing yourselves out over it. 

[Padme]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

I do not know why you lot worry about this? You are all just stressing yourselves out over it. 

Brexit is not a laugh matter despite being a joke. At least that's what it seems. Why? because it's been more than a year since the Brexit referendum and nobody has a plan. If the government don't want to negociate. They should just tell the EU to take their 50 billion and the UK will figure. What is the point of these meetings if nothing is agreed? The PM has said progress has been made. But she doesn't show not one single example of such a thing. One day they say one thing. The next day they say the opposite. those who voted Leave and those who voted Remain need to plan. A lot of things are ging to change. It is not a good idea to get caught completely off guard.

[DieselDaisy]

Nothing will change that will affect any person personally. All that is happening is is one set of corrupt old farts (Westminster) are breaking away from another set of corrupt old farts (Brussels). Meanwhile life continues for the vast majority. 

[Padme]

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Nothing will change that will affect any person personally. All that is happening is is one set of corrupt old farts (Westminster) are breaking away from another set of corrupt old farts (Brussels). Meanwhile life continues for the vast majority. 

Can you guarantee to some guy working in a car factory that such factory won't move to Ireland, Germany or France in 1 or 2 years? Companies care about profit. They are not going to join some idelistic crusade.

[DieselDaisy]

3 minutes ago, Padme said:

Can you guarantee to some guy working in a car factory that such factory won't move to Ireland, Germany or France in 1 or 2 years? Companies care about profit. They are not going to join some idelistic crusade.

I'll go one further and say there is nothing that guy can do to alter the result, so why worry? The majority of British industries went tits up decades ago and therefore irrespective of all of this (unless the EU played a hand in it, like how it destroyed our fisheries).

[AtariLegend]

Needs to be another election and soon, preferably before March 2018.

This is going to end up with Boris Johnson a bigger idiot than Trump, Gove the man who wants 1984 to be a reality or Breitbart and Russian bot favorite Jacob Reese Mogg as PM.

I think the Tories are shafted next election, no matter how Murdoch/Dirty "Goose Stepping" Desmond, Dacre or the Telegraph try to spin it.

On the brighter side, if the Disney deal with Fox goes through, they'll own the Sky shares not Murdoch.

Edited December 7, 2017 by AtariLegend

[Len Cnut]

20 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I'll go one further and say there is nothing that guy can do to alter the result, so why worry? The majority of British industries went tits up decades ago and therefore irrespective of all of this (unless the EU played a hand in it, like how it destroyed our fisheries).

Didn't know we still had fuckin' car factories in this country, all that shit went for a toss long ago didn't it?

[Padme]

1 hour ago, Len Cnut said:

Didn't know we still had fuckin' car factories in this country, all that shit went for a toss long ago didn't it?

Still there is a car industry... for now. This article is from a few months ago. You get the picture

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/aug/04/uk-car-industry-facing-an-utterly-demoralising-brexit

 

[AtariLegend]

From April Last Year;

Ireland Border Brexit Fears 'Scaremongering'

The Northern Ireland Secretary hits out at "scaremongering" after Ireland's ex-PM says Brexit would be "negative in every way"

Northern Ireland Secretary Theresa Villiers has insisted border arrangements between Ireland and the UK would not change if the public votes to leave the EU.

She dismissed claims that Brexit would prove negative for trade between the countries - and even harm the peace process - as "scaremongering".

Mrs Villiers told Sky News' Murnaghan show that leaving the EU would not alter the free flow of "goods and people" over the only land border with the UK.

She offered reassure after Ireland's former prime minister, Bertie Ahern, voiced strong concerns over the consequences of an Out vote.

He said it would be "regressive" and "negative in every way".

Mr Ahern said: "We'd be the only place that has a land border with Britain - of course others would exploit and expose it. They'd have to check people."

Mr Ahern went on: "From a trade point of view it would be a customs border - it's regressive, negative."

But Mrs Villiers, a Brexit campaigner, told Sky News that no changes to border arrangements would be needed.

"I believe that the land border with Ireland can remain as free-flowing after a Brexit vote as it is today," she said.

"There is no reason why we have to change the border arrangements in the event of a Brexit because they have been broadly consistent in the 100 years since the creation of Ireland as a separate state.

"It's in the interest of both countries to keep an open border and there's no reason for that to change if the people of this country were to exercise their freedom to vote to leave the EU." 

The border concerns came as Work and Pensions Secretary Stephen Crabb warned that families would face "disastrous" consequences if the UK left the EU.

Mr Crabb, who replaced Out campaigner Iain Duncan Smith in the Cabinet in March, predicts there would be factory closures, an exodus of businesses and job losses.

He said Brexit would cause "economic rupture".

Writing in The Sunday Telegraph, Mr Crabb warned: "Lost jobs and livelihoods take an enormous, indelible toll on families and communities.

"No one should be complacent about the potential consequences for working people and their families if Britain votes to exit the EU. This is not a theoretical debate."

It is the first official weekend of campaigning ahead of the referendum on 23 June.

Source: https://news.sky.com/story/amp/ireland-border-brexit-fears-scaremongering-10247026?__twitter_impression=true

2 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Didn't know we still had fuckin' car factories in this country, all that shit went for a toss long ago didn't it?

 

[DieselDaisy]

What our Euro lovers here will not tell you about, Len, is the way in which the EU buggered our entire fishery industry - I come from an area with a lot of (former) fishing towns and there is a reason why the EU is and will always be universally despised here. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by DieselDaisy

[Nice Boy]

I was a bit tentative opening this thread for the first time as I thought everyone would be talking shite, but thankfully it seems there are some fairly knowledgable contributors here..

Nice one keep it going

[Padme]

Well there is a deal. About fucking time!!!

http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-42276855

It is still too early. But it seems soft borther in NI. Meaning the Good Friday Agreement has prevaled. No changes when it comes to citizen rights for europeans living in the UK. And the ECJ will have no jurisdiction in the UK. This is the only item the Brexiters have won. Of course not everyone will be happy. I wouldn't rule out more debates and changes. After all this agreement was done in a race against time and at the very last minute.

[DieselDaisy]

See? 'Nowt ta worry bout. I hope you and Atari apologise to Therese now, perhaps complimenting her on her trousers. 

Edited December 8, 2017 by DieselDaisy

[Padme]

6 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

See? 'Nowt ta worry bout. I hope you and Atari apologise to Therese now, perhaps complimenting her on her trousers. 

Well babies born in NI will have European citizenship. 50 billion divorce bill is going to be paid. Nicola Srtugeon is pissed off because Scotland won't have benefit. Farage is also butt hurt because this is far from being the Brexit he wanted. 

Phase two, trade deal. Apparently there are two alternatives, either Norway kind of trade deal or Canada kind of trade deal. Well your fishermen friends situation won't get any better. I would say to them they better get a big strong and stable Union to lead the fight for their waters and their rights. So maybe that way they could accomplish something. The Government and this Brexit are not going to do anything to benefit them. There is no magic solution

So neither this half ass Brexit nor the hard Brexit are good ideas to solve any issues. What is so great about it? 

[DieselDaisy]

35 minutes ago, Padme said:

Well babies born in NI will have European citizenship. 50 billion divorce bill is going to be paid. Nicola Srtugeon is pissed off because Scotland won't have benefit. Farage is also butt hurt because this is far from being the Brexit he wanted. 

Phase two, trade deal. Apparently there are two alternatives, either Norway kind of trade deal or Canada kind of trade deal. Well your fishermen friends situation won't get any better. I would say to them they better get a big strong and stable Union to lead the fight for their waters and their rights. So maybe that way they could accomplish something. The Government and this Brexit are not going to do anything to benefit them. There is no magic solution

So neither this half ass Brexit nor the hard Brexit are good ideas to solve any issues. What is so great about it? 

What a load of tripe. They don't exist! The industry is almost completely destroyed because of your beloved EU! There are coastal towns reduced to ghost towns running up the north east - Scotland also. I believe it is similar elsewhere. 

Why do people who defend the EU ignore the fact it destroyed our maritime industry? You defend studenty gap year wankers in the interests of the EU and European migrants but never what this horrid thing actually did to our country? They are technically ''working class'' you know, if you consider yourself ''the left'' they should be included in your appraisal of the EU - a pre-industrial working class? None of you, not you, Atari, Graeme bat an eyelid about the fact the EU destroyed thriving maritime towns. Some 'left'? 

Edited December 8, 2017 by DieselDaisy

[SoulMonster]

16 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

What a load of tripe. They don't exist! The industry is almost completely destroyed because of your beloved EU! There are coastal towns reduced to ghost towns running up the north east - Scotland also. I believe it is similar elsewhere. 

Why do people who defend the EU ignore the fact it destroyed our maritime industry? You defend studenty gap year wankers in the interests of the EU and European migrants but never what this horrid thing actually did to our country? They are technically ''working class'' you know, if you consider yourself ''the left'' they should be included in your appraisal of the EU - a pre-industrial working class? None of you, not you, Atari, Graeme bat an eyelid about the fact the EU destroyed thriving maritime towns. Some 'left'? 

I googled this to get some more background on EU and England's fishing industries. Opinion is obivously split.

Quote

The Environment Secretary Elizabeth Truss, says she “firmly believes UK fishermen are better off inside the EU”. She believes it is “wishful thinking” to suggest that Britain can get a better deal for its fishermen outside of Europe. Britain, she says, has only 13 per cent of the EU’s total sea area, but is allocated 30pc of the total quota and our trawlers fish in Irish, German, French and Dutch waters with catches worth about £100m a year. She has warned that Britain would not have automatic and immediate freedom to control its own waters if it left the EU – and would still have to comply with the bloc’s restrictions without having any say over them. While recognising that the CFP “hasn’t always suited us”, Ms Truss says that UK-led reform has ended the “wasteful practice” of discarding fish and has given regional decision-making back to local fishermen.

Supporters of EU membership also point out that 66 per cent of UK seafood exports go to EU countries and that seven out of the top ten countries that Britain exports to are in the EU. They say industry profits are going up from 271 million euros gross profit in 2013 to 367 million euros gross profit in 2014. Others including environmental law firm ClientEarth say that the reformed CFP offers the best solution to overfishing in Europe, with many stocks already showing signs of improvement. They say that while many small vessels in the UK are suffering from low quotas, the UK has the second largest quota allocation in the EU and leaving the EU could result in a “tragedy” of overfishing and trawlermen’s livelihoods could suffer during years of bureaucratic wrangling.

Source: https://inews.co.uk/explainers/iq/eu-referendum-brexit-mean-uks-fishing-industry/

Could it be that England's fishing industry simply failed to evolve with the times and the hardship happened to happen at the same time as EU was developed? That the problems to a large extent would have happened even if England was not part of EU? I have no idea. This is not meant to disagree with you, Diesel, I simply don't know.
 

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

I googled this to get some more background on EU and England's fishing industries. Opinion is obivously split.

Source: https://inews.co.uk/explainers/iq/eu-referendum-brexit-mean-uks-fishing-industry/

Could it be that England's fishing industry simply failed to evolve with the times and the hardship happened to happen at the same time as EU was developed? That the problems to a large extent would have happened even if England was not part of EU? I have no idea. This is not meant to disagree with you, Diesel, I simply don't know.
 

No, we had thriving maritime communities until we joined in the 1970s. 

[Padme]

11 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

What a load of tripe. They don't exist! The industry is almost completely destroyed because of your beloved EU! There are coastal towns reduced to ghost towns running up the north east - Scotland also. I believe it is similar elsewhere. 

Why do people who defend the EU ignore the fact it destroyed our maritime industry? You defend studenty gap year wankers in the interests of the EU and European migrants but never what this horrid thing actually did to our country? They are technically ''working class'' you know, if you consider yourself ''the left'' they should be included in your appraisal of the EU - a pre-industrial working class? None of you, not you, Atari, Graeme bat an eyelid about the fact the EU destroyed thriving maritime towns. Some 'left'? 

 Even if hard Brexit would've been agreed with the EU. Still there is no magic solution. Do you really think that Boris and Farage give a fuck about fishermen? They fishermen were used as political tool. Don't blame the EU ONLY. It is clear nobody in the UK cared about it. The UK never came up with a proper fishery legislation and a proper lobby in Brussels to help the fishermen.

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

No, we had thriving maritime communities until we joined in the 1970s. 

Sure, but could it be it got into troubles because of stuff beyond EU? Maybe it would have struggled regardless, because of a failing to modernize, because of larger structural developments in the industry, etc?

[Padme]

13 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Sure, but could it be it got into troubles because of stuff beyond EU? Maybe it would have struggled regardless, because of a failing to modernize, because of larger structural developments in the industry, etc?

The Labour Party blames austerity on this matter. But austerity plan came from both the EU and the UK government. And it is something more recent. This problem has been going for a while. Anyway, here. I'm not sure I buy it. As I said these poor people can be used as a political tool from all sides.

 

[DieselDaisy]

26 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Sure, but could it be it got into troubles because of stuff beyond EU? Maybe it would have struggled regardless, because of a failing to modernize, because of larger structural developments in the industry, etc?

No, it was EU quotas which specify when British fisherman can fish, and how much they can fish. It is specific policy which killed our industry.

5 minutes ago, Padme said:

The Labour Party blames austerity on this matter. But austerity plan came from both the EU and the UK government. And it is something more recent. This problem has been going for a while. Anyway, here. I'm not sure I buy it. As I said these poor people can be used as a political tool from all sides.

 

Our maritime industries were destroyed long before austerity and Davey Cameron.