Flayer Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) To put it more frankly, Damn Smooth, your personal opinions of what Matt and Dizzy did or did not contribute don't mean jack fucking shit. Edited December 7, 2011 by Flayer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Fuck the HOF. End of discussion. I will have more respect for Axl if he blows the whole thing off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damn_Smooth Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) Well, again your opinion. Whether or not you think they're musically qualified doesn't matter. They played and recorded with the band when the band was still pretty popular. The albums they participated in were big critical and commercial successes, again, not on par with Appetite, but still pretty significant. Not to mention that the band was still (to a smaller degree than appetite, of course) functioning like a regular band. Axl hadn't taken everything over at that point. Members were actually members, not hired hands at that time.They didn't increase the popularity of the band at all and they were by far the weakest members on the albums that they contributed on. That is fact, not opinion. I don't see why you think they should be rewarded for that.No...that's still your opinion. Some people liked what Dizzy and Matt contributed. It's subjective. The FACTS are the band still had commercial success at that time, not every album is gonna sell like 30 million copies. The music they contributed to is still played on the radio 20 years later, and they were part of the process. The albums combined still sold 35 million copies. I'd say 17 and 18 million individually is still a commercial success. Critics also liked UYI for the most part.That's why they should be rewarded. Under what we're told about inductions Dizzy and Matt fit that criteria. Just because it didn't sell as crazy as Appetite, doesn't mean those albums aren't somewhat significant. Like it or not, Dizzy and Matt were apart of it, and it's impossible to say "what could've been different" had they not been in the band.Find me one person, anybody, that thinks that Matt and Dizzy were the cause of the Illusion's success. I think even their family should be smart enough to know better. When was the last time you asked if somebody knew who GN'R were and they replied "Isn't that that band with Matt and Dizzy?" You are getting facts and opinions mixed up. The fact is that they weren't critical elements of the success of the band. They have no right to stand beside those that did. Edited December 7, 2011 by Damn_Smooth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcano62 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Fuck the HOF. End of discussion. I will have more respect for Axl if he blows the whole thing off.I feel the EXACT same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunsfanoldie Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Fuck the HOF. End of discussion. I will have more respect for Axl if he blows the whole thing off.Axl blows everything off. If he didn't show, my initial reaction wouldn't be it was because he thought the HOF blows. It would be that he was taking a shower or eating dinner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Fuck the HOF. End of discussion. I will have more respect for Axl if he blows the whole thing off.Axl blows everything off. If he didn't show, my initial reaction wouldn't be it was because he thought the HOF blows. It would be that he was taking a shower or eating dinner.I hope he tweets what he is having for dinner. Or what shampoo or body wash he is using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volcano62 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Find me one person, anybody, that thinks that Matt and Dizzy were the cause of the Illusion's success. I think even their family should be smart enough to know better. When was the last time you asked if somebody knew who GN'R were and they replied "Isn't that that band with Matt and Dizzy?" You are getting facts and opinions mixed up. The fact is that they weren't critical elements of the success of the band. They have no right to stand beside those that did.Any drummer could have filled in just to get the Illusions recorded so I agree with you about Sorum.Axl could have recorded all the piano parts but him wanting Dizzy was part of the greater plans and his future vision. So in closing Dizzy didn't play a huge part in the success of the Illusions but he has become a very important member today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmygod Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Fuck the HOF. End of discussion. I will have more respect for Axl if he blows the whole thing off.Exactly. Really it's worthless to gnr. It seems that the only people that truly care are nerdy obsessed fans just to have some bragging rights when talking to other nerdy fans.I mean, sure it is cool to be recognized for your past, but GNR is still alive and well. The RNR has no bearing as to gnr's future touring plans/future albums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flayer Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Damn Smooth, how many people would have called it the Duff and Izzy show? Almost nobody. GnR was always the Axl and Slash show, they were the faces everyone knew. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is not a ranking of the members. Matt and Dizzy were just as much members of GnR, just as Izzy and Duff were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MishoGunsNRoses Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 If Axl shows he probably won´t sing, and if he doesn´t go to the ceremony a video message or skype will probably be the option. After a week people will stop talking about it and that will be over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Find me one person, anybody, that thinks that Matt and Dizzy were the cause of the Illusion's success. I think even their family should be smart enough to know better. When was the last time you asked if somebody knew who GN'R were and they replied "Isn't that that band with Matt and Dizzy?" You are getting facts and opinions mixed up. The fact is that they weren't critical elements of the success of the band. They have no right to stand beside those that did.Any drummer could have filled in just to get the Illusions recorded so I agree with you about Sorum.Axl could have recorded all the piano parts but him wanting Dizzy was part of the greater plans and his future vision. So in closing Dizzy didn't play a huge part in the success of the Illusions but he has become a very important member today.Guns N' Roses was never known for drummers until Josh Freese and later Brain entered the band. Matt Sorum was a more technically skilled drummer than Steve though and for some reason he gets bashed on here. I think Steve shined throughout Lies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lose Your Illusions Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) Fuck the HOF. End of discussion. I will have more respect for Axl if he blows the whole thing off. Same. Axl will write a letter saying how it's a honor to be inducted and all that, but he won't show up (Why would he put himself in such an awkward situation?). Slash and company will show up, and accept. The media will interview Slash and company and the only question will be how much will they shit on Axl via sly comments. They won't be upfront about it, but I'm sure Slash will say " I don't give a shit about Axl" (more or less) and most people will expect Axl to reunite with the guy (Can you say last 16 years?)....Overall it will be good thing I guess if you really are into the HOF, but it won't change anything really. Supposedly the back catologue always goes up in sales after a band gets inducted but I mean GH was in the Top 100 last week... Edited December 7, 2011 by Lose Your Illusions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Fuck the HOF. End of discussion. I will have more respect for Axl if he blows the whole thing off.I feel the EXACT same way.To me it's just a way for the industry to force Axl to do a reunion. I wouldn't be surprised if strings aren't being pulled so it has to be the fabulous five or no one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 He'll go if Elton inducts him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gunns5 Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Slash will do a cypress hill and black eyed peas song medley Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axlslash Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Fuck the HOF. End of discussion. I will have more respect for Axl if he blows the whole thing off.Sure. Take the record sales bump and be an asshole. Certainly a good way to try to get back some of the street cred that GNR had before they were the biggest band in the world. But really? You get the only major bump a band like GNR can get of this magnitude, and give them the finger? Can't say I would respect Axl more for being a disrespectful douche bag. The industry that made you an icon wants to honor you, the least you can do is say thank you. It's not a big deal, I understand that, but the record sales they're about to hand you is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flayer Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Find me one person, anybody, that thinks that Matt and Dizzy were the cause of the Illusion's success. I think even their family should be smart enough to know better. When was the last time you asked if somebody knew who GN'R were and they replied "Isn't that that band with Matt and Dizzy?" You are getting facts and opinions mixed up. The fact is that they weren't critical elements of the success of the band. They have no right to stand beside those that did.Any drummer could have filled in just to get the Illusions recorded so I agree with you about Sorum.Axl could have recorded all the piano parts but him wanting Dizzy was part of the greater plans and his future vision. So in closing Dizzy didn't play a huge part in the success of the Illusions but he has become a very important member today.If you want to put it that way, any drummer could have played Appetite for Destruction. The average person does not buy their rock albums for the drumming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AXL_N_DIZZY Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Damn Smooth, how many people would have called it the Duff and Izzy show? Almost nobody. GnR was always the Axl and Slash show, they were the faces everyone knew. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame is not a ranking of the members. Matt and Dizzy were just as much members of GnR, just as Izzy and Duff were.Exactly. Sure Axl and Slash we're the "main" guys- and then Duff- but ALL those guys were very much "Guns N' Roses" (including Matt and Dizzy) back in the early 90's heyday IMHO. That was certainly my perception as a teenage fan. I knew all those guys from the videos and tours, etc. and If I ever were to have bumped into Matt or Dizzy somewhere I would have freaked the fuck out and told all my friends that I met Matt and/or Dizzy from Guns N' fuckin' Roses!!! Not "additional musician" Matt Sorum or whatever. That's a bunch of BS IMHO- and frankly I suspect it was one of the things Axl and Matt hashed out 5+ years ago when they had their chance meeting in NYC back in 2006.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 The industry didn't make Axl an icon. in fact they mostly tried to destroy him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) Fuck the HOF. End of discussion. I will have more respect for Axl if he blows the whole thing off.Sure. Take the record sales bump and be an asshole. Certainly a good way to try to get back some of the street cred that GNR had before they were the biggest band in the world. But really? You get the only major bump a band like GNR can get of this magnitude, and give them the finger? Can't say I would respect Axl more for being a disrespectful douche bag. The industry that made you an icon wants to honor you, the least you can do is say thank you. It's not a big deal, I understand that, but the record sales they're about to hand you is.The HOF is not going to give them back their street credit. If anything it makes every inducted band official "has beens"Agree with Wasted. They probably want to make it a ploy to get them back together. Even Eddie Trunk is in on it. Its like getting a guy back together with his bitch ex wife that tried to kill him.Its the media/industry vs Axl Rose. All Axl has got is his precious time Edited December 7, 2011 by BirdCatcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 He played nice in the interviews. Ducking n diving but CD II is coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleeper Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Fuck the HOF. End of discussion. I will have more respect for Axl if he blows the whole thing off.I feel the EXACT same way.Axl has the most to gain by the induction. He owns the name! The name will be out there because of this getting plenty of publicity. The Classic 5 will get the GNR name more media coverage than anything NU GNR will ever be able to do. Plus if handled right by Mr. Rose it will all be positive publicity. And the added plus is Axl will not have to pay anything for it. And as far as you guys losing respect give me break Axl could shit in your faces and everyone of you would go please Axl do it again. What are all of you scared of anyway? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bobbo Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Well, again your opinion. Whether or not you think they're musically qualified doesn't matter. They played and recorded with the band when the band was still pretty popular. The albums they participated in were big critical and commercial successes, again, not on par with Appetite, but still pretty significant. Not to mention that the band was still (to a smaller degree than appetite, of course) functioning like a regular band. Axl hadn't taken everything over at that point. Members were actually members, not hired hands at that time.They didn't increase the popularity of the band at all and they were by far the weakest members on the albums that they contributed on. That is fact, not opinion. I don't see why you think they should be rewarded for that.No...that's still your opinion. Some people liked what Dizzy and Matt contributed. It's subjective. The FACTS are the band still had commercial success at that time, not every album is gonna sell like 30 million copies. The music they contributed to is still played on the radio 20 years later, and they were part of the process. The albums combined still sold 35 million copies. I'd say 17 and 18 million individually is still a commercial success. Critics also liked UYI for the most part.That's why they should be rewarded. Under what we're told about inductions Dizzy and Matt fit that criteria. Just because it didn't sell as crazy as Appetite, doesn't mean those albums aren't somewhat significant. Like it or not, Dizzy and Matt were apart of it, and it's impossible to say "what could've been different" had they not been in the band.Find me one person, anybody, that thinks that Matt and Dizzy were the cause of the Illusion's success. I think even their family should be smart enough to know better. When was the last time you asked if somebody knew who GN'R were and they replied "Isn't that that band with Matt and Dizzy?" You are getting facts and opinions mixed up. The fact is that they weren't critical elements of the success of the band. They have no right to stand beside those that did.Look man, I'm not a huge fan of Sorum OR Dizzy. But there are people, even on this board that prefers Matt and likes what Dizzy brought to the table. The bottom line is they contributed to significant GNR hits. They were a part of it.You can't look at November Rains chart position at 3 now and say "I know for a hundred percent fact that it would've hit number 1 had Adler been in the band." It is IMPOSSIBLE to know how their success would've been altered otherwise. And no matter how probable your opinion may be (and the funny thing is I actually agree with some of your points), it's still an opinion, not fact.The fact of the matter is, November Rain, Don't Cry, LALD, Heavens Door, and You Could Be Mine were all significant hits that are still getting radio play and love 20 years later, with Sorum's and Dizzy's contributions. And under what we know to be the rules of induction, they deserve to get in for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Georgy Zhukov Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 (edited) Fuck the HOF. End of discussion. I will have more respect for Axl if he blows the whole thing off.I feel the EXACT same way.Axl has the most to gain by the induction. He owns the name! The name will be out there because of this getting plenty of publicity. The Classic 5 will get the GNR name more media coverage than anything NU GNR will ever be able to do. Plus if handled right by Mr. Rose it will all be positive publicity. And the added plus is Axl will not have to pay anything for it. And as far as you guys losing respect give me break Axl could shit in your faces and everyone of you would go please Axl do it again. What are all of you scared of anyway?What does he have to gain? They will just disrespect the hard work he's did for almost 20 years. They will go "Oh, CD was great and all, but wouldn't it be great if we just honor the original five and leave it at that?" He spent millions to get where he is today. Has three albums worth of material waiting to be released and all they can ever focus on is what he did back in the 1980's. If anything they are just scheming to get him back together with Slash so they can have a reunion tour and make $$$. That/s all they can see anyway. They don't give a shit about the music, just the cash. He just wants to focus on Guns N' Roses now, not the past. Edited December 7, 2011 by BirdCatcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleeper Posted December 7, 2011 Share Posted December 7, 2011 Fuck the HOF. End of discussion. I will have more respect for Axl if he blows the whole thing off.I feel the EXACT same way.Axl has the most to gain by the induction. He owns the name! The name will be out there because of this getting plenty of publicity. The Classic 5 will get the GNR name more media coverage than anything NU GNR will ever be able to do. Plus if handled right by Mr. Rose it will all be positive publicity. And the added plus is Axl will not have to pay anything for it. And as far as you guys losing respect give me break Axl could shit in your faces and everyone of you would go please Axl do it again. What are all of you scared of anyway?What does he have to gain? They will just disrespect the hard work he's did for almost 20 years. They will go "Oh, CD was great and all, but wouldn't it be great if we just honor the original five and leave it at that?" He spent millions to get where he is today. Has three albums worth of material waiting to be released and all they can ever focus on is what he did back in the 1980's. If anything they are just scheming to get him back together with Slash so they can have a reunion tour and make $$$. That/s all they can see anyway. They don't give a shit about the music, just the cash. He just wants to focus on Guns N' Roses now, not the past.The bottom line is Axl chose to keep the name. When he did that he tied himself to the past. I really cannot say weather it is right or wrong but that is just the way it is. And Axl can release his material anytime he wants. Who are "they"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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