The James Bond Thread: RIP Robbie Coltrane

[RichardNixon]

SPOILERS AHEAD.

Saw it twice today and really enjoyed it. I to don't understand the Moore comparisons. There were some old tropes, but not too many. I disagree with those who said there were too many characters. There was Blofeld, Mr. Hinx, Swan and C, and they were all fleshed-out, or at least as fully utilized as could be. The finale wasn't as amazing as Skyfall, but it worked for me. Bond throwing his gun away and leaving with Swan was a nice send off for Craig, if this is his final movie. Although I hope he is back for Bond 25.

A 4/5 rating for me.

[ZoSoRose]

Wtf, spoilers dude

[James Bond]

I finally saw it! And my first thought is - what in the blue hell were some of the reviewers smoking when they compared the style/tone to a Moore film? Sure, the classic Bond elements are now in place (which we knew at the end of Skyfall) but the pacing and tone are borrowed directly from Skyfall. I guess it's the least "dark" Craig film but that's not really saying much. Structurally it felt very much like a companion to Skyfall.

I'll say that I am satisfied. Skyfall, like Casino, was a tough act to follow. Unlike Quantum (where I left the theatre disappointed), I left SPECTRE feeling like I had just watched a great addition to the series even if it's not as good as Skyfall. It's funny because I enjoyed it immensely but all the same I'm not sure if I can rank it up there just yet.

I do agree with the consensus that they maybe tried to put too much into the film and, as a result, some plot points and characters are underdeveloped. Hopefully Bond 25 does indeed become a "part two" because there's so much left to explore.

I'll sum up some of my favourite bits (spoilers ahead):

- Gun barrel back at the start. For some it's trivial but to me it's a big part of the Bond experience. It's a short adrenaline rush before the film takes off.

- Lea Seydoux as Madeline Swann. Craig's best Bond girl since Vesper and very well utilised. It's nice to see Craig "get the girl" at the end for once. I hope we haven't seen the last of her.

- The entire train scene and fight with Hinx. Classic Bond all the way!

- Waltz as Blofeld. Okay, we all saw it coming from a mile away but damn he's good. The scar originating was a nice touch and unexpected. Every moment with him was good and made me giddy. The torture scene was damn good.

- Team MI6. It was nice to see expanded roles for M, Q, and Moneypenny. Fiennes in particular really slipped into the role well (and the little Dench cameo was nice).

- Mr. White scene. Finally some closure and one of the best scenes in the franchise.

- Newman's score. I liked how he brought back some of the themes from Skyfall and expanded on them.

The finale was a bit underwhelming compared to Skyfall although the final scene was dynamite. Certainly a great ending.

I do wish we saw more of Hinx but that's a minor gripe. What could have been a classic henchman is somewhat forgettable.

Sam Smith though... Fuck, that song is boring as shit. Even Kleinman's excellent titles couldn't save it. Worst song in the franchise next to NSNA (if we count that). Also quite a downer coming off the excellent pre-titles (awesome nod to GoldenEye I might add). Maybe not quite as good as the Skyfall pre-titles but a lot of fun all the same.

Overall, I'll definitely be back to see it a couple more times before I truly rank it. If Skyfall was a 10/10, this was a comfortable 8/10 on first seeing it. It feels like there's unfinished business and Craig had best come back for a couple more. The future of the franchise looks great if this is the set-up for it.

I'm guessing too that the word of mouth and other big films (Star Wars and Hunger Games) will stop this from beating Skyfall's numbers, but I expect it to still do well.

[Powerage5]

SPOILERS AHEAD.

Saw it twice today and really enjoyed it. I to don't understand the Moore comparisons. There were some old tropes, but not too many. I disagree with those who said there were too many characters. There was Blofeld, Mr. Hinx, Swan and C, and they were all fleshed-out, or at least as fully utilized as could be. The finale wasn't as amazing as Skyfall, but it worked for me. Bond throwing his gun away and leaving with Swan was a nice send off for Craig, if this is his final movie. Although I hope he is back for Bond 25.

A 4/5 rating for me.

I added a spoiler tag for you. It's not a rule or anything, but I consider it a common courtesy to do so for a new movie - some people may come in here and expect to have stuff tagged.

[ZoSoRose]

My fauly for loaking here

[Powerage5]

I finally saw it! And my first thought is - what in the blue hell were some of the reviewers smoking when they compared the style/tone to a Moore film? Sure, the classic Bond elements are now in place (which we knew at the end of Skyfall) but the pacing and tone are borrowed directly from Skyfall. I guess it's the least "dark" Craig film but that's not really saying much. Structurally it felt very much like a companion to Skyfall.

I'll say that I am satisfied. Skyfall, like Casino, was a tough act to follow. Unlike Quantum (where I left the theatre disappointed), I left SPECTRE feeling like I had just watched a great addition to the series even if it's not as good as Skyfall. It's funny because I enjoyed it immensely but all the same I'm not sure if I can rank it up there just yet.

I do agree with the consensus that they maybe tried to put too much into the film and, as a result, some plot points and characters are underdeveloped. Hopefully Bond 25 does indeed become a "part two" because there's so much left to explore.

I'll sum up some of my favourite bits (spoilers ahead):

- Gun barrel back at the start. For some it's trivial but to me it's a big part of the Bond experience. It's a short adrenaline rush before the film takes off.

- Lea Seydoux as Madeline Swann. Craig's best Bond girl since Vesper and very well utilised. It's nice to see Craig "get the girl" at the end for once. I hope we haven't seen the last of her.

- The entire train scene and fight with Hinx. Classic Bond all the way!

- Waltz as Blofeld. Okay, we all saw it coming from a mile away but damn he's good. The scar originating was a nice touch and unexpected. Every moment with him was good and made me giddy. The torture scene was damn good.

- Team MI6. It was nice to see expanded roles for M, Q, and Moneypenny. Fiennes in particular really slipped into the role well (and the little Dench cameo was nice).

- Mr. White scene. Finally some closure and one of the best scenes in the franchise.

- Newman's score. I liked how he brought back some of the themes from Skyfall and expanded on them.

The finale was a bit underwhelming compared to Skyfall although the final scene was dynamite. Certainly a great ending.

I do wish we saw more of Hinx but that's a minor gripe. What could have been a classic henchman is somewhat forgettable.

Sam Smith though... Fuck, that song is boring as shit. Even Kleinman's excellent titles couldn't save it. Worst song in the franchise next to NSNA (if we count that). Also quite a downer coming off the excellent pre-titles (awesome nod to GoldenEye I might add). Maybe not quite as good as the Skyfall pre-titles but a lot of fun all the same.

Overall, I'll definitely be back to see it a couple more times before I truly rank it. If Skyfall was a 10/10, this was a comfortable 8/10 on first seeing it. It feels like there's unfinished business and Craig had best come back for a couple more. The future of the franchise looks great if this is the set-up for it.

I'm guessing too that the word of mouth and other big films (Star Wars and Hunger Games) will stop this from beating Skyfall's numbers, but I expect it to still do well.

I don't know if I'd say I liked SPECTRE's PTS better than Skyfall, but I'd put them on the same level. This PTS was tense as fuck - the same amount of thrills as in Skyfall, but in two thirds the time (It felt to be about 10 minutes, but I wan't timing it or anything).

I liked the visuals in the title sequence - it was very different, but it looked good. Just a shame it didn't have a good song to accompany it.

I'm not as much a stickler for the gun barrel being at the beginning as you are, but I agree it was really great to see it back at the beginning rather than the end. My only gripe about it is I wish it opened into the first shot of the film as it always used to - I don't see the point of it if you don't to that classic dissolve that gradually opens up to the first shot. The fade to black was jarring, especially with the first shot following the gun barrel being text on a black background on the screen. I get why that text is there since it's pertinent to the film, but in hindsight it just seemed a little too on the nose.

[bacardimayne]

Spoiler free opinion:

I liked it a lot more than I thought I would. It felt like a cookie cutter Bond movie (not necessarily a bad thing), but with an exceptionally well done third act. The action scenes are lacking in creativity, save for one part, but otherwise they're somewhat boring and predictable.

I also didn't mind the Sam Smith song. It could've been a lot worse.

Major spoilers ahead:

I liked it a lot more than I thought I would.

My brief opinion is that the action scenes (save for the train fight) were lacking in creativity and thus somewhat boring, but it was made up for with Waltz's fantastic performance, the perfectly done Blofeld reveal, and eventual reveal of the scarred face, and, well, the third act in general.

Edited November 7, 2015 by bacardimayne

[Powerage5]

Spoiler free opinion:

I liked it a lot more than I thought I would. It felt like a cookie cutter Bond movie (not necessarily a bad thing), but with an exceptionally well done third act. The action scenes are lacking in creativity, save for one part, but otherwise they're somewhat boring and predictable.

I also didn't mind the Sam Smith song. It could've been a lot worse.

Major spoilers ahead:

I liked it a lot more than I thought I would.

My brief opinion is that the action scenes (save for the train fight) were lacking in creativity and thus somewhat boring, but it was made up for with Waltz's fantastic performance, the perfectly done Blofeld reveal, and eventual reveal of the scarred face, and, well, the third act in general.

The car chase is the only action scene that I felt was lacking - which is especially disappointing because they hyped up that segment in particular so much during production. There was just never any sense of danger in it; it was 5 minutes of Bond talking to Moneypenny on the phone with Hinx tailing him but not actually doing anything. Wonderful location, but pretty underwhelming execution.

[bacardimayne]

I found the plane chase to be utterly ridiculous, it took a lot out of the second act for me.

I forgot about the opening chase/helicopter fight though, that was pretty good too.

[AtariLegend]

Did anyone want the full OHMSS ending in this?

I really hope Waltz reprises his role. I like You Only Live Twice/On Her Majesty's Secret Service/Diamonds Are Forever (the 3rd in my deffence I haven't seen in years) as stand alone films, but baring the actor changes throughout them and the extreme continuity errors, it really would have been better if they had been their own proper semi-trilogy with just Connery and Pleasence

Edited November 7, 2015 by AtariLegend

[bacardimayne]

My question is - they obviously set up for a sequel, given that Blofeld is still alive.

Are they going to do another Craig movie? Are they going to move forward in the current continuity with a new agent assuming the role of 007? They've established a clear continuity between the last four films and made it obvious that it isn't over yet, but Craig seems to be done with the franchise, and Bond the character seems to be done with his job.

Edited November 7, 2015 by bacardimayne

[AtariLegend]

My question is - they obviously set up for a sequel, given that Blofeld is still alive.

Are they going to do another Craig movie? Are they going to move forward in the current continuity with a new agent assuming the role of 007?

No way they reboot again. At worst they recast both.

[bacardimayne]

Can't wait for the intro to Bond 25, starring Idris Elba, featuring a montage of flashbacks to the last four movies, with Daniel Craig's skin digitally done up in blackface.

[Powerage5]

My question is - they obviously set up for a sequel, given that Blofeld is still alive.

Are they going to do another Craig movie? Are they going to move forward in the current continuity with a new agent assuming the role of 007? They've established a clear continuity between the last four films and made it obvious that it isn't over yet, but Craig seems to be done with the franchise, and Bond the character seems to be done with his job.

Until she's murdered at the beginning of Bond 25...

[James Bond]

Add me to the "car chase was mediocre" club. It wasn't much of a chase scene at all. I liked the demise of the car but otherwise it was pretty bland. I loved the plane chase though. Sure, it bordered on Brosnan action but the snow setting made it for me and it was a lot of fun as opposed to the car chase.

Did anyone want the full OHMSS ending in this?

I really hope Waltz reprises his role. I like You Only Live Twice/On Her Majesty's Secret Service/Diamonds Are Forever (the 3rd in my deffence I haven't seen in years) as stand alone films, but baring the actor changes throughout them and the extreme continuity errors, it really would have been better if they had been their own proper semi-trilogy with just Connery and Pleasence

They had better get Craig and Waltz back. They finally have the opportunity to do the Blofeld thing right so they had better do it. It's too bad that they only just got the rights because otherwise they could have started the slow introduction SPECTRE right with Casino Royale.

I'm not as much a stickler for the gun barrel being at the beginning as you are, but I agree it was really great to see it back at the beginning rather than the end. My only gripe about it is I wish it opened into the first shot of the film as it always used to - I don't see the point of it if you don't to that classic dissolve that gradually opens up to the first shot. The fade to black was jarring, especially with the first shot following the gun barrel being text on a black background on the screen. I get why that text is there since it's pertinent to the film, but in hindsight it just seemed a little too on the nose.

I do agree that it would have been nice to have the iris open up on the parade - just like the old days. It did seem weird to fade out the gun barrel and then show the text. It almost would have worked better if they just cut the gun barrel as soon as Bond shot right to the text. I think, thematically, that would have worked better. I feel like Sam Mendes was trying to fit it back at the beginning but still keep a memorable opening shot. I haven't read the leaked script so I'm not sure how early it was planned to fit it back at the beginning or not.

Still, I'm happy it made a return to the start. It was cool that they teased the theme (David Arnold's Casino Royale arrangement which Newman borrowed once again) during the MGM and Columbia logos. Then the theme proper starts and those dots come across making me feel like a giddy little boy again. I'm also glad that they finally went back to the original Binder design for it. Casino Royale's was pretty cool but I found the gun barrel designs in Quantum and Skyfall to be rather weak.

[Georgy Zhukov]

Finally got to see it! Seems like it has all the stuff the Bond film needs. I kept expecting something horrible to happen at the end, but instead they chose to end it with Bond finally getting the girl. About time too, since Craig's Bond has always ends the film alone. That Henchman though! Definitely one of the best. I loved the Bond girl in this one, I guess Monica got out alive?

I am sad the cat might not have made it out of the explosion.

[Georgy Zhukov]

If anyone bitches about spoilers, that is your own damn fault.

[AtariLegend]

I am sad the cat might not have made it out of the explosion.

Me too.

The cat should have got more than one scene too.

[Georgy Zhukov]

I wondered how they could make S.P.E.C.T.R.E. work in this post-9/11 age where people want "gritty films" and it seems all this news about the Snowden leaks and pretty much going all the way back to the signing of the Patriot Act pretty much could lead to something that sinister.

[Georgy Zhukov]

I didn't like it as much as Skyfall or even Casino Royale, but I think this will get better on multiple viewings.There was a lot I like about this movie, especially how ruthless Bond is in this.

[Crazyman]

The Good: The acting, the casting (great Bond girls/villains), the locations, M's storyline (and the overall "old" way of spying vs. the new), the additional humor, the PTS (favorite part of the movie), the connectivity to the other Craig films

The Bad: The theme song, the length of the movie, the ridiculous plot holes (seriously...they had 3 years between movies and this is something that'll always bother me about this movie).

Overall: Bond-by-the-numbers is a good description of this movie. Despite some of my posts here I actually enjoyed this movie, but was severely disappointed. I'd rank it above QoS, but barely, and no where near CR or Skyfall. I would've rather waited another year for them to get everything figured out and give Mendes/Craig some time to rest/relax.

[Powerage5]

I wondered how they could make S.P.E.C.T.R.E. work in this post-9/11 age where people want "gritty films" and it seems all this news about the Snowden leaks and pretty much going all the way back to the signing of the Patriot Act pretty much could lead to something that sinister.

Yet people have been bitching about how weak Blofeld's plan is. I don't agree with that sentiment at all; I think it it was an appropriate, well-grounded SPECTRE plot for a post-9/11 world.

But, for the sake of argument let's agree with the people who say the plan is weak. There's two ways you can look at it. First off, within the film universe. We find out in SPECTRE that every opponent that Bond has faced off against since Casino Royale has been a SPECTRE operative to some degree; Le Chiffre, Mr. White, Dominic Greene, and Raoul Silva. There a lot of fucking cunning between those four. All of them are dead, all because of Bond (Although Le Chiffre was a bit more indirect) except Mr. White, who died on his own terms. Why is it so hard to believe that, with so many of SPECTRE's bright minds dead, we are to believe they'll have no problem coming up with ingenious evil plans? Are we to believe that Blofeld personally comes up with every act that SPECTRE operates? I don't buy it. I believe the organization we see in SPECTRE is in decline, if you choose to use the octopus alliteration, then this SPECTRE is one missing a considerable number of it's tentacles - alive and functioning, but not thriving. That also explains some peoples' concerns that the organization seems too...uneventful compared to SPECTRE in the original continuity. Whether or not you think it was right for them to show SPECTRE in this state is another story, but that's how I view SPECTRE/Blofeld in this film.

The second way of thinking about it is a more meta approach. SPECTRE plots have always been fairly tenuous; the only SPECTRE films I consider to have a good evil plan are From Russia With Love and Thunderball. Even though OHMSS is my favorite SPECTRE film in the original continuity, the "angels of death plan" is hilariously, dismally bad. Dr. No is cluttered and unclear, YOLT is essentially a re-hash of the plan in FRWL with a different endgame, and let's not even bring up DAF. So why is it suddenly considered so wrong for SPECTRE to again have a flimsy evil plan?

I didn't like it as much as Skyfall or even Casino Royale, but I think this will get better on multiple viewings.There was a lot I like about this movie, especially how ruthless Bond is in this.

One thing in particular I noticed, and it's been discussed on Reddit a little bit, is the word choices made about Bond. The vocabulary paints Bond in a darker light than usual; he's not an agent or spy or government employee, he's an assassin. He's bluntly called an assassin multiple times in the film. Even in his own words he's got a darker approach; at the clinic Swann asks him his occupation, he flat out says "I kill people for a living". Unusual to see Bond so blunt about his work.

[Georgy Zhukov]

I've read comments of people bitching about Silva being invplved in SPECTRE. It makes perfect sense. Silva doesn't come across as a guy taking orders from someone like Blofeld, but that whole time watching Skyfall, I kept wondering where does he get the money? It makes sense that Blofeld would need M dead to see his plans move forward and no one wanted M dead more than Silva and Silva didn't need much persuading. MI6 is lead to believe Silva acted alone, with Silva dead all traces to SPECTRE disappears.

Someone on IMDB drew the connections.

In Casino Royale we see how SPECTRE makes its money through men like Le Chiffre, given personal history Blofeld may have taken interest with Bond, may have gone as far as using Vesper to lure him in. Her dead was probably punishment for attempting to thwart their plans.

Quantum of Solace shows an organization that answers to SPECTRE, destabilizing governments, manipulating corrupt politicians.

Skyfall was Silva being egged on by SPECTRE to humiliate M and the 00 section that lead to the appointment of Mallory who was expected to shake up the 00 Section, her death was part of the plan to help dissolve the 00 Section because she wouldn't dare let Dingback put her on surveillance. Mallory proved to be a force to be reckoned with in the end.

Spectre was the finalization of the plans. We saw in QOS how they can manipulate goverments by simply backing military coups. For wealthier goverments, just blow up a few buildings and suede public opinion to accept the surveillance.

It has come full circle I say.

[James Bond]

Excellent analysis. It makes me want to marathon the Craig films right now and then see SPECTRE about 50 more times before the end of its run.

On a side note - Gregg Wilson confirmed that the title is indeed intended to be capitalized so what's with all the media neglecting that? Assholes!

[Georgy Zhukov]

I might just do the same. I might go see it during a day off of work during the week.

As always Craig was phenomenal, but Lea Seydoux was a pleasure to watch. I don't care if people think it is forced, it is a Bond film, just roll with it. But she was great. Fucking sexy too.