**FAQ UPDATE IN FIRST POST 6/16** Guns N' Roses Appetite For Democracy 3D Concert Film/DVD/Blu-Ray

[bran]

this is beyond fucking retarded. bootlegs are common place, bands post whole shows on facebook and encourage it or they really do not care. how this is even an issue is mind blowing to be perfectly honest. people were selling multi cam bootlegs(SELLING) back during the UCAP tour. their is dozens of full length concerts on youtube right now for the whole world to see.

instead we have some dickeheads at rockfuel who have a hair across their ass because they cannot get their shit show released for whatever reason(failing to dot their I's and cross their t's) so they go bitch piss and moan to somehow stop a fan made BOOTLEG that is FREE. fans who took the initiative to give the hardcore fans(and fans in general) something that even the band could give a fuck less about doing for years and years are getting their hardwork censored/removed because of some video company having sand in their vagina's?

why would this be an issue if the band themselves didnt care? if gnr management told rock fuel to go fuck sand, what recourse could they honestly have? i still cannot believe this is happening with a fucking bootleg. i mean seriously.

[DieselDaisy]

Boycott their official dvd - oh shit, there will be no official dvd: oh well then!

You could not make this stuff up really. Whether it is nugnr, team brazil, Slash, Rockfuel - there is always high political drama in the gn'r world.

[gunsguy]

Just try and be a bit more subtle about things guys. We've been given clear instructions from the legal team and I don't want to be seen as not taking them seriously. Until we get any advice to the contrary, this is how it has to be.

Thats cool HV. Just to note for anyone who cares, since we have been asked to not link this and that, the people getting the show has increased.

When there is a controversy it actually increases demand for such. People that would normally not care for a bootleg have now found interest...

Just putting that out there.

Also we have had PC.com promote this and other boots many many times... Fernando actually helped us one night by donating some batteries to our man in the front row at a show to keep filming. Jarmo has said before that trying to stop recording is a lost cause. And the list goes on and on. It is mixed messages and as a fan we don't know where we are supposed to draw a line. Is this release the line? I do not think so other than the timing one is far from another, but that is my opinion and I know nothing.

Edited March 19, 2014 by gunsguy

[highvoltage]

Also we have had PC.com promote this and other boots many many times... Fernando actually helped us one night by donating some batteries to our man in the front row at a show to keep filming. Jarmo has said before that trying to stop recording is a lost cause. And the list goes on and on. It is mixed messages and as a fan we don't know where we are supposed to draw a line. Is this release the line? I do not think so other than the timing one is far from another, but that is my opinion and I know nothing.

I don't think the message is all that mixed. The message from within the camp seems to be "we don't care".

The only message we've really received is that Rockfuel don't want this out there, and that's it.

[bran]

Boycott their official dvd - oh shit, there will be no official dvd: oh well then!

You could not make this stuff up really. Whether it is nugnr, team brazil, Slash, Rockfuel - there is always high political drama in the gn'r world.

its always something, it is the biggest cluster fuck of a band i have ever seen.

[gunsguy]

Also we have had PC.com promote this and other boots many many times... Fernando actually helped us one night by donating some batteries to our man in the front row at a show to keep filming. Jarmo has said before that trying to stop recording is a lost cause. And the list goes on and on. It is mixed messages and as a fan we don't know where we are supposed to draw a line. Is this release the line? I do not think so other than the timing one is far from another, but that is my opinion and I know nothing.

I don't think the message is all that mixed. The message from within the camp seems to be "we don't care".

The only message we've really received is that Rockfuel don't want this out there, and that's it.

That clarifies this then for me. Clarity does not equate to understanding the reasons but that is my issue with

Rockfuel should know that any other release is not a threat to a pro dvd. Or maybe they do know this by way of this case. Think about it, controversy increases demand, maybe they are actually causing a stir for a reason?

[Naupis]

The proper thing to do would be to tell Rockfuel that any and all talk of their DVD (now and in the future) will be banned on this board just like talk of that other DVD.

That would send a shiver down their spine considering that we are probably the only viable market for Appetite Rehash part 100.

[gunsguy]

The proper thing to do would be to tell Rockfuel that any and all talk of their DVD (now and in the future) will be banned on this board just like talk of that other DVD.

That would send a shiver down their spine considering that we are probably the only viable market for Appetite Rehash part 100.

Admins can do what they want, but I am not opposed to this idea. Do not promote this or support it until they give us a reason to. (IE a release in the store)

Sounds like a good idea in my mind, thoughts?

I am not into hurting the band if that was the case, but I feel that this dvd is not coming out anytime soon so why give Rockfuel any free advertising on a site they don't wanna play nice with? What reason do we have to support them without a physical release to watch?

Edited March 19, 2014 by gunsguy

[DieselDaisy]

The ironic thing is - and this argument applies to the whole bootleg thing, even before the net - fans who are passionate enough to circulate and record crowd recordings of inferior technical quality are people who will certainly buy all official releases. Bootlegs of live recordings (as well as studio demos etc) have never been in competition with official releases - never in the whole history of the bootleg. You could argue the reverse, boots sort of, sustaining fan interest during moments of drought (of official releases).

[Naupis]

The proper thing to do would be to tell Rockfuel that any and all talk of their DVD (now and in the future) will be banned on this board just like talk of that other DVD.

That would send a shiver down their spine considering that we are probably the only viable market for Appetite Rehash part 100.

Admins can do what they want, but I am not opposed to this idea. Do not promote this or support it until they give us a reason to. (IE a release in the store)

Sounds like a good idea in my mind, thoughts?

I am not into hurting the band if that was the case, but I feel that this dvd is not coming out anytime soon so why give Rockfuel any free advertising on a site they don't wanna play nice with? What reason do we have to support them without a physical release to watch?

I am not a fan of unilateral disarmament, and that appears to be the stance taken by the heads of these boards towards Rockfuel.

There is no need to bend over and take it from them, as there is a ton of leverage in the idea that DVD talk would be banned.

As to your point about hurting the band, the way I look at it they need to either lean on Rockfuel to stop the nonsense or deal with the consequences of being complicit in Rockfuel's campaign.

[highvoltage]

The proper thing to do would be to tell Rockfuel that any and all talk of their DVD (now and in the future) will be banned on this board just like talk of that other DVD.

That would send a shiver down their spine considering that we are probably the only viable market for Appetite Rehash part 100.

Admins can do what they want, but I am not opposed to this idea. Do not promote this or support it until they give us a reason to. (IE a release in the store)

Sounds like a good idea in my mind, thoughts?

I am not into hurting the band if that was the case, but I feel that this dvd is not coming out anytime soon so why give Rockfuel any free advertising on a site they don't wanna play nice with? What reason do we have to support them without a physical release to watch?

I am not a fan of unilateral disarmament, and that appears to be the stance taken by the heads of these boards towards Rockfuel.

There is no need to bend over and take it from them, as there is a ton of leverage in the idea that DVD talk would be banned.

As to your point about hurting the band, the way I look at it they need to either lean on Rockfuel to stop the nonsense or deal with the consequences of being complicit in Rockfuel's campaign.

I'm just not really one to want to stir the circus into something worse than it already is.

Not promoting the DVD ultimately hurts the band as well, and it won't change the situation one bit. Our best hope is that the rockfuel guy calms down and looks at the situation rationally. He's invested a lot of time and money into the project and it's inhibiting his ability to take his emotions out of the equation.

EDIT: I don't think he's a bad guy. A bit of a cowboy maybe, but he's just upset and I don't think he was really thinking straight when he set the wheels in motion, as evidenced by some of his actions behind the scenes during the ordeal.

[gunsguy]

Well if it hurts the band I wont support any action, if the time comes when we realize this aint coming out, if that happens than by all means

[ThinkAboutYou]

The proper thing to do would be to tell Rockfuel that any and all talk of their DVD (now and in the future) will be banned on this board just like talk of that other DVD.

That would send a shiver down their spine considering that we are probably the only viable market for Appetite Rehash part 100.

Admins can do what they want, but I am not opposed to this idea. Do not promote this or support it until they give us a reason to. (IE a release in the store)

Sounds like a good idea in my mind, thoughts?

I am not into hurting the band if that was the case, but I feel that this dvd is not coming out anytime soon so why give Rockfuel any free advertising on a site they don't wanna play nice with? What reason do we have to support them without a physical release to watch?

I am not a fan of unilateral disarmament, and that appears to be the stance taken by the heads of these boards towards Rockfuel.

There is no need to bend over and take it from them, as there is a ton of leverage in the idea that DVD talk would be banned.

As to your point about hurting the band, the way I look at it they need to either lean on Rockfuel to stop the nonsense or deal with the consequences of being complicit in Rockfuel's campaign.

I'm just not really one to want to stir the circus into something worse than it already is.

Not promoting the DVD ultimately hurts the band as well, and it won't change the situation one bit. Our best hope is that the rockfuel guy calms down and looks at the situation rationally. He's invested a lot of time and money into the project and it's inhibiting his ability to take his emotions out of the equation.

EDIT: I don't think he's a bad guy. A bit of a cowboy maybe, but he's just upset and I don't think he was really thinking straight when he set the wheels in motion, as evidenced by some of his actions behind the scenes during the ordeal.

I don't like to stir the pot I'm just going to sit here and watch Adelaide while Rockfuel negotiate

[Guest NGOG]

I would be in favor of deleting this thread entirely - everybody is sick of Rock Fuel's neverending charade.

Cracking down on our community's freedom was a step too far.

Edited March 19, 2014 by NGOG

[Guest Gunns]

It's gotta be a first that a DVD company releasing a recent performance, goes to a bands management because they are unhappy that a bootleg of a 4 year old show was up on YouTube.

[Mansin Humanity]

Serious question - what sort of legal leverage does RockFuel have if the band doesn't care? I'd (kind of) understand it if it was a boot of the Vegas show released, but obviously it's not.

Any lawyers here?

[maynard]

they see this bootleg as competition cause they know the only people who'll buy the AFD bluray are mostly forum users.

[hellobeatle]

Serious question - what sort of legal leverage does RockFuel have if the band doesn't care? I'd (kind of) understand it if it was a boot of the Vegas show released, but obviously it's not.

Any lawyers here?

Yes Sir.

The only thing I can conjure is that (1) RockFuel has some sort of exclusive distribution deal with GNR concert videos, or (2) somehow it can be perceived that this bootleg is cashing in on the attention/paid promotion of A4D DVD.

Other than that, I see nothing that would hold water in front of a judge. Even the above arguments are speculative at best. If you like, you can fwd me any correspondence you received from their side and I can check it out.

[Rodzilla72]

Serious question - what sort of legal leverage does RockFuel have if the band doesn't care? I'd (kind of) understand it if it was a boot of the Vegas show released, but obviously it's not.

Any lawyers here?

I think that's a great question- and along those same lines I'd still love to hear anyone's thoughts on these questions:

1) Did all parties concerned (Rockfuel, the band, their management) truly think they had everything squared away, legal/ copyright t's crossed, etc for this release, and yet (after all this time) they did not foresee or proactively address the threat of a potential legal impediment?

and

2) Do we know conclusively of a legal injunction, writ, or restraining order type of motion that was filed at the 11th hour (or at any time)? Would such a document or filing (or proof of its existence anyway) be accessible by the public (under some sort of Freedom of Info grounds)?

Still curious...

[hellobeatle]

Serious question - what sort of legal leverage does RockFuel have if the band doesn't care? I'd (kind of) understand it if it was a boot of the Vegas show released, but obviously it's not.

Any lawyers here?

I think that's a great question- and along those same lines I'd still love to hear anyone's thoughts on these questions:

1) Did all parties concerned (Rockfuel, the band, their management) truly think they had everything squared away, legal/ copyright t's crossed, etc for this release, and yet (after all this time) they did not foresee or proactively address the threat of a potential legal impediment?

and

2) Do we know conclusively of a legal injunction, writ, or restraining order type of motion that was filed at the 11th hour (or at any time)? Would such a document or filing (or proof of its existence anyway) be accessible by the public (under some sort of Freedom of Info grounds)?

Still curious...

1) No on knows except the parties involved. My guess is if the legal counsel informed them that everything was squared away and then a "legitimate and foreseeable" party came in and blocked it, then the lawyers' malpractice is on the hook for associated damages.

2) Unless there is reason to put a gag order on a filed Court doc (i.e. children identities, public or private safety) then any individual can stroll into the clerk's office where it was filed, look up the docket # on the computer and request the file. Copying fees vary from Court to Court.

EDIT: not gag order, my bad - they can RQST the file be impounded. Judge's discretion.

EDIT 2: if's it a filed in Federal Court (which might be the case if diversity) then you can check it on PACER / Update: nothing filed in Federal Ct., however, it appears Slash was suing the shit out of Axl for years..

Edited March 19, 2014 by hellobeatle

[Rodzilla72]

Serious question - what sort of legal leverage does RockFuel have if the band doesn't care? I'd (kind of) understand it if it was a boot of the Vegas show released, but obviously it's not.

Any lawyers here?

I think that's a great question- and along those same lines I'd still love to hear anyone's thoughts on these questions:

1) Did all parties concerned (Rockfuel, the band, their management) truly think they had everything squared away, legal/ copyright t's crossed, etc for this release, and yet (after all this time) they did not foresee or proactively address the threat of a potential legal impediment?

and

2) Do we know conclusively of a legal injunction, writ, or restraining order type of motion that was filed at the 11th hour (or at any time)? Would such a document or filing (or proof of its existence anyway) be accessible by the public (under some sort of Freedom of Info grounds)?

Still curious...

1) No on knows except the parties involved. My guess is if the legal counsel informed them that everything was squared away and then a "legitimate and foreseeable" party came in and blocked it, then the lawyers' malpractice is on the hook for associated damages.

2) Unless there is reason to put a gag order on a filed Court doc (i.e. children identities, public or private safety) then any individual can stroll into the clerk's office where it was filed, look up the docket # on the computer and request the file. Copying fees vary from Court to Court.

EDIT: not gag order, my bad - they can RQST the file be impounded. Judge's discretion.

EDIT 2: if's it a filed in Federal Court (which might be the case if diversity) then you can check it on PACER

Thanks very much hellobeatle- I'd be very interested to see (as I imagine would many others 'round here- judging by the 2452 posts on this thread ) to see what names, dates, etc appear in those files...

[rockfuel]

we cannot comment, except that is not our decision on any of this.. there are several attorneys/companies involved that we don't control, and we will only comment on the project we're involved with, once it's resolved.

[Russel Nash]

Well.. Rockfuel is online, obviously they are paying attention to us. So i would vote NO for the deletion of the thread.

Rockfuel, can you please explain whats going on to us, the ones who will buy the DVD and go to the cinema?

we cannot comment, except that is not our decision on any of this.. there are several attorneys/companies involved that we don't control, and we will only comment on the project we're involved with, once it's resolved.

What happened with the Adelaide Bootleg?

[Axl_morris]

we cannot comment, except that is not our decision on any of this.. there are several attorneys/companies involved that we don't control, and we will only comment on the project we're involved with, once it's resolved.

Perhaps you should have taken that advise last year instead of goading us with false updates...etc.

It won't get resolved if banning a bootleg on a forum is deemed as a threat. What other unresonable demands have been made regaurding this release?

Edited March 19, 2014 by Axl_morris

[Estranged Coma]

Obviously the DVD from 2012 show will be out in 2020 why would we think otherwise..

Now plz Delete this thread untill atleast 2018