The Announcement about the announcement thread #SATour Announcement

[EvH]

I love Civil War the way it is, and there's the UYI edited Heaven's Door that removes the phone call. Axl's overdubs work on some songs, and ruin others.

[axlslash]

Hey guys, I just was checkin in on the announcement...

Get out of here with this on-topic nonsense. Don't you understand that this is now a Slash vs. Axl thread? Bitch please...

[Rovim]

I love Civil War the way it is, and there's the UYI edited Heaven's Door that removes the phone call. Axl's overdubs work on some songs, and ruin others.

I agree. Civil War is still a great song. Axl's 'orchestral' work on November Rain is a highlight for me.

[bacardimayne]

A lot of that stuff takes the UYI songs to another level IMO. I do think Axl was all about the song, trying to make each one as good as possible. That doesn't mean that every decision was the correct one, but the Illusions are right near the top of my favourites list, and it was equal parts Slash's guitars and Axl's contributions that make them great.

I don't follow.

I sincerely believe that if EVERY single Axl-added "neat-o effect" were deleted from UYI, and if the reverb were scaled down overall, then UYI would surpass AFD.

The intro in Civil War fits imo, but damn... that was a Slash song. I highly doubt Slash wanted it there, but I don't really know.

Precisely. And the rain effects during the outro? Why?

God damn, take away the Cool Hand Luke sample and the rain effects and you're left with an incredible, raw rock song, maybe one of the best around.

You're the first person I've ever heard say something bad about the intro sample. Your crusade truly knows no bounds.

[Rovim]

A lot of that stuff takes the UYI songs to another level IMO. I do think Axl was all about the song, trying to make each one as good as possible. That doesn't mean that every decision was the correct one, but the Illusions are right near the top of my favourites list, and it was equal parts Slash's guitars and Axl's contributions that make them great.

I don't follow.

I sincerely believe that if EVERY single Axl-added "neat-o effect" were deleted from UYI, and if the reverb were scaled down overall, then UYI would surpass AFD.

The intro in Civil War fits imo, but damn... that was a Slash song. I highly doubt Slash wanted it there, but I don't really know.

Precisely. And the rain effects during the outro? Why?

God damn, take away the Cool Hand Luke sample and the rain effects and you're left with an incredible, raw rock song, maybe one of the best around.

You're the first person I've ever heard say something bad about the intro sample. Your crusade truly knows no bounds.

Eh... he's not the first person to say something negative about that intro sample. I thought the Cool Hand Luke sample was...cool.

I even liked it on Madagascar.

[Mr. Dude]

Slash said the rough demos were much better then the studio versions of the songs. (not his exact words) It would be really interesting to listen to those and compare with the final product. I'm talking about the finished songs, just without the full production and Axl's effects.

It seems many people preferred the leaks and demos over the studio version of Chinese.

A lot of that stuff takes the UYI songs to another level IMO. I do think Axl was all about the song, trying to make each one as good as possible. That doesn't mean that every decision was the correct one, but the Illusions are right near the top of my favourites list, and it was equal parts Slash's guitars and Axl's contributions that make them great.

I don't follow.

I sincerely believe that if EVERY single Axl-added "neat-o effect" were deleted from UYI, and if the reverb were scaled down overall, then UYI would surpass AFD.

The only problem with that is that nobody gives a shit what you believe.

I give a shit. Too much reverb seems right, and most of the effects didn't really contribute to the final product imo.

Don't know about it surpassing AFD as an album though. There was no guitar interplay in UYI like there was in Appetite. That alone made it better imo. A more accurate representation of the Guns sound.

I disagree. Some of the sound effects make the songs more identifiable and add a kind of resonance to their meaning. There was no point in pretending that they were still a raw, stripped down, straight-ahead rock band at that point. They had changed, the music evolved, the band evolved (for better or worse). Contrary to trendy opinion, I think the production improves (or at least accurately represents the band's artistic evolution) MOST of the material on the Illusions.

Some diggity No doubt

[Cosmo]

You guys are too nickty-pickity... The UYIs sound GREAT. Everything's awesome about them.

[bacardimayne]

Songs like Right Next Door to Hell and Perfect Crime would surpass AFD if not for Axl's horrible overdubs.

[Rovim]

Slash said the rough demos were much better then the studio versions of the songs. (not his exact words) It would be really interesting to listen to those and compare with the final product. I'm talking about the finished songs, just without the full production and Axl's effects.

It seems many people preferred the leaks and demos over the studio version of Chinese.

A lot of that stuff takes the UYI songs to another level IMO. I do think Axl was all about the song, trying to make each one as good as possible. That doesn't mean that every decision was the correct one, but the Illusions are right near the top of my favourites list, and it was equal parts Slash's guitars and Axl's contributions that make them great.

I don't follow.

I sincerely believe that if EVERY single Axl-added "neat-o effect" were deleted from UYI, and if the reverb were scaled down overall, then UYI would surpass AFD.

The only problem with that is that nobody gives a shit what you believe.

I give a shit. Too much reverb seems right, and most of the effects didn't really contribute to the final product imo.

Don't know about it surpassing AFD as an album though. There was no guitar interplay in UYI like there was in Appetite. That alone made it better imo. A more accurate representation of the Guns sound.

I disagree. Some of the sound effects make the songs more identifiable and add a kind of resonance to their meaning. There was no point in pretending that they were still a raw, stripped down, straight-ahead rock band at that point. They had changed, the music evolved, the band evolved (for better or worse). Contrary to trendy opinion, I think the production improves (or at least accurately represents the band's artistic evolution) MOST of the material on the Illusions.

Some diggity No doubt

What are the sound effects that made the songs more identifiable? Not using ridiculous sound effects doesn't preclude a band that just released AFD from being genuine. Also, it doesn't have to be stripped down or bloated. Get where I'm going with this?

It's not as black and white as you describe it imo.

I actually liked the production of UYI in many ways. The reverb was maybe too much, but the overall production worked. The scope was bigger so it kinda made sense.

The music evolved, but with UYI, the Guns sound lost one of the most important mechanics Guns had up to that point in AFD which as I mentioned before, was the amazing guitar interplay between Axl and Izzy.

I prefer UYI though.

Edited December 25, 2013 by Rovim

[ManetsBR]

It's because you sound so cool and old-school rock n' roller when you complain about the Illusions "overdubs."

[Rovim]

It's because you sound so cool and old-school rock n' roller when you complain about the Illusions "overdubs."

No... it's because a lot of these overdubs were not necessary and in some cases didn't add anything of value and even took away from what was originally there. At least that's what I think, and I know others here share the same opinion.

It's kinda like how some people see what Pitman did on Chinese as useless, or Bumble's contributions as something that wasn't really needed. (I like what Pitman did, and a lot of what Bumble brought to the table)

[Nosaj Thing]

No... it's because a lot of these overdubs were not necessary and in some cases didn't add anything of value and even took away from what was originally there

This is 101% true.

Still, I don't think people "complain" about the overdubs, it's just something that was added and did nothing for the record.

Like I have said before, I prefer the UYIs over AFD.

[bacardimayne]

Apart from the ridiculous ones like the KOHD phone call and Breakdown everything, the "overdubs" improve the songs.

[Rovim]

Apart from the ridiculous ones like the KOHD phone call and Breakdown everything, the "overdubs" improve the songs.

The bitches in Coma? zap the son of a bitch AGAIN!

[Mr. Dude]

It's because you sound so cool and old-school rock n' roller when you complain about the Illusions "overdubs."

I like almost all of the overdubs and effects on the record, they give it character. The sample on Civil War is synonymous with that song, same for the defibrillator on Coma, the overdubs on the Breakdown outro, the vocal loop on Don't Cry, etc- they all add personality to those songs. I can't imagine those songs without those effects. They don't take away from the kick-ass rock n roll on those records, they enhance it. Use Your Illusion I & II are amongst the greatest albums of all time in my opinion and without a doubt- the past 25. They're fine how they are.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Mr. Dude

[bacardimayne]

Apart from the ridiculous ones like the KOHD phone call and Breakdown everything, the "overdubs" improve the songs.

The bitches in Coma? zap the son of a bitch AGAIN!

I like the Coma ones.

[Rovim]

Apart from the ridiculous ones like the KOHD phone call and Breakdown everything, the "overdubs" improve the songs.

The bitches in Coma? zap the son of a bitch AGAIN!

I like the Coma ones.

It's just like... for me, some of the overdubs are more classy then others. Like the intro for Civil War. It has way more context and is more appropriate then say, the end of Breakdown or the KOHD phone call.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Rovim

[EvH]

Apart from the ridiculous ones like the KOHD phone call and Breakdown everything, the "overdubs" improve the songs.

The bitches in Coma? zap the son of a bitch AGAIN!

I like the Coma ones.

I do too. Remove those overdubs and Coma becomes a plain boring song.

[hellobeatle]

Unless they announce a reunion of Axl, Slash & Izzy what's it even matter? Las Vegas cover versions of classic songs or a release of Axl's contrived garbage recordings don't even merit press releases.

[Mr. Dude]

Unless they announce a reunion of Axl, Slash & Izzy what's it even matter? Las Vegas cover versions of classic songs or a release of Axl's contrived garbage recordings don't even merit press releases.

ok, old GNR rocks, new GNR sucks, Axl's a dick, Slash is god, top hats are awesome, bandanas suck.

Thanks, we get it.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Mr. Dude

[Cosmo]

It's because you sound so cool and old-school rock n' roller when you complain about the Illusions "overdubs."

I like almost of the overdubs and effects on the record, they give it character. The sample on Civil War is synonymous with that song, same for the defibrillator on Coma, the overdubs on the Breakdown outro, the vocal loop on Don't Cry, etc- they all add personality to those songs. I can't imagine those songs without those effects. They don't take aways from the kick-ass rock n roll on those records, they enhance it. Use Your Illusion I & II are amongst the greatest albums of all time in my opinion and without a doubt- the past 25. They're fine how they are.

+1. The UYIs sound perfect. The only thing I'd take out is the KOHD phone call. And man.. I freakin' love the 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 in Perfect Crime.

[Rovim]

Coma would have been good enough with no sound effects. Maybe closer to how Slash envisioned it, as he brought the song in it's original form to the table.

Axl's lyrics provide enough context without that ridiculous E.R audio scene that Axl came up with. It actually takes me out of the moment a little everytime I listen to it.

It doesn't ruin anything. The album is too good for that. I wonder if Axl still thinks it was a good idea to put all those overdubs in the songs.

It's because you sound so cool and old-school rock n' roller when you complain about the Illusions "overdubs."

I like almost of the overdubs and effects on the record, they give it character. The sample on Civil War is synonymous with that song, same for the defibrillator on Coma, the overdubs on the Breakdown outro, the vocal loop on Don't Cry, etc- they all add personality to those songs. I can't imagine those songs without those effects. They don't take aways from the kick-ass rock n roll on those records, they enhance it. Use Your Illusion I & II are amongst the greatest albums of all time in my opinion and without a doubt- the past 25. They're fine how they are.

+1. The UYIs sound perfect. The only thing I'd take out is the KOHD phone call. And man.. I freakin' love the 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 in Perfect Crime.

That's a cool one. Also the simple but fitting '1...2!' in Estranged just before Slash's lead begins.

Edited December 26, 2013 by Rovim

[TeeJay410]

If only there were a dry mix of UYI and AFD like there was of Mr. Brownstone

[Kahz]

Coma would have been good enough with no sound effects. Maybe closer to how Slash envisioned it, as he brought the song in it's original form to the table.

Axl's lyrics provide enough context without that ridiculous E.R audio scene that Axl came up with. It actually takes me out of the moment a little everytime I listen to it.

It doesn't ruin anything. The album is too good for that. I wonder if Axl still thinks it was a good idea to put all those overdubs in the songs.

It's because you sound so cool and old-school rock n' roller when you complain about the Illusions "overdubs."

I like almost of the overdubs and effects on the record, they give it character. The sample on Civil War is synonymous with that song, same for the defibrillator on Coma, the overdubs on the Breakdown outro, the vocal loop on Don't Cry, etc- they all add personality to those songs. I can't imagine those songs without those effects. They don't take aways from the kick-ass rock n roll on those records, they enhance it. Use Your Illusion I & II are amongst the greatest albums of all time in my opinion and without a doubt- the past 25. They're fine how they are.

+1. The UYIs sound perfect. The only thing I'd take out is the KOHD phone call. And man.. I freakin' love the 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8 in Perfect Crime.

That's a cool one. Also the simple but fitting '1...2!' in Estranged just before Slash's lead begins.

Have you ever noticed that it actually goes "1...2...3", but the "three" is cut off mid-word?

Once I heard it I could never un-hear it.

...I'm sorry if I've ruined the song for anyone.

[Rovim]

Originally, Axl went all the way up to 11.