Why are people crapping on Axl so much these days?

[Amir]

Oh, I meant that too.

We were told their would be 2-3 new songs at these concerts. Who told us that? A random name on a screen at a message board. Not trying to shit on him personally, but more speaking to the fact that calling yourself a "reporter" on a fan message board is not, in actual fact, a press credential.

Management knew it would take something more than the same old shit to get people from this board to attend shows, so they gave that info to Subs + NGOG, knowing full well that at the end of the day it all comes down to Axl. Nobody can prevent Axl from singing what he likes live.

"We can play what we want, as far as I'm aware." - Axl, Dec '08.

To OP and others criticising our criticisms, do you honestly think Axl would give performances like he does now if he was playing with the old band? Do you think he'd let himself be in the shape he is? Can you honestly see anybody in this band or management taking any criticisms they have to their paymaster Axl?

I'm not a reunionist. As much as I love Slash and Duff and Finck and Buckethead, they're obviously happier doing their own thing. Fortus and Bumble are talented guitarists, I'd love to hear new music from them. I'd even give new music from DJ a fair chance. We've seen Bumble get frustrated over the years, expressing the exact same frustrations that I and others are making here now. Even Fortus has made a few comments recently about how he is happy to record and release music with a band that "isn't too precious" about its music.

I know I'm in the minority for the number of shows I've attended already and hope to attend, but even that so-called "casual" fanbase is pretty small as it is. Most casuals want a reunion. So who exactly are GNR trying to please now?

[Silent Jay]

I didn't know Guns were supposed to be putting out new music? I figured CD was their last album.

Oh well, I'm watching Rio from a few days ago and it isn't that bad and I think people need to take a step back and quit overanalyzing everything! So many people take everything Axl says and does to heart dating all the way back to 1988 for some reason.

All I know is I'm super excited for Rock on the Range where I will finally get to see them. Dream come true. I'm happy with any setlist

Rio was all right, but the Axl Rose disaster part III actually happened in Belo Horizonte.

[D-GenerationX]

Management knew it would take something more than the same old shit to get people from this board to attend shows, so they gave that info to Subs + NGOG, knowing full well that at the end of the day it all comes down to Axl. Nobody can prevent Axl from singing what he likes live.

"We can play what we want, as far as I'm aware." - Axl, Dec '08.

Could well be.

It just seemed like such an easy trap. They have all sorts of plausible deniability, up to and including, "we never said that".

But even more nuanced stuff like "we never said what 'new' meant" (because it could be new solo spots or Bumble solo songs). Or "well, the tour is not over yet" (which you can keep on using up until, literally, the last show of the tour).

[MarlaHooch]

Because there are a bunch of whiny self-entitled spoiled bitches on this forum who for some reason believe Axl works exclusively for them and not for the 99.9999% of people in the audience who, you know, pay money, and don't care whether or not The General is played.

Some of you really should try being Tool fans if it's the same set every night that bothers you.

[Amir]

Management knew it would take something more than the same old shit to get people from this board to attend shows, so they gave that info to Subs + NGOG, knowing full well that at the end of the day it all comes down to Axl. Nobody can prevent Axl from singing what he likes live.

"We can play what we want, as far as I'm aware." - Axl, Dec '08.

Could well be.

It just seemed like such an easy trap. They have all sorts of plausible deniability, up to and including, "we never said that".

But even more nuanced stuff like "we never said what 'new' meant" (because it could be new solo spots or Bumble solo songs). Or "well, the tour is not over yet" (which you can keep on using up until, literally, the last show of the tour).

Even in that case, nothing NGOG reported would be untrue. "GNR plans to play 2-3 new songs", that could well be true even if they don't end up playing any.

/jarmo pointed out that the Duff in Recife/Fortaleza rumours were started before tickets went on sale. My guess is promoters came up with it to drum up excitement. For all this "burying Appetite/the old band" talk, this band is shamelessly milking it all for its worth.

I wouldn't take the extreme some would take of saying setlists should be 80% post-classicGNR songs, but Better + TIL + 2 new songs in the setlist shouldn't be out of the question

[Amir]

Because there are a bunch of whiny self-entitled spoiled bitches on this forum who for some reason believe Axl works exclusively for them and not for the 99.9999% of people in the audience who, you know, pay money, and don't care whether or not The General is played.

Some of you really should try being Tool fans if it's the same set every night that bothers you.

So who does Axl work for? Who pays for the shows? An increasingly small number of people. Even the South American venues are smaller than 2011, and struggling to sell out. Buenos Aires tickets are on Groupon. Do you think people in the audience are dying to hear La Bella Vita instead of a new song? Or seeing Axl walk up to the mike for hard-rocking songs like Nightrain and YCBM?

What about those of us who have been positive over the years and supported this band? We're "whiny and self-entitled" because our support has gone unrewarded? Sorry, I didn't realise this was the BendOverAndTakeItFromAxl forum.

Look at the recent debacle with the South American VIP downgrades. Zero word from management about this, I had to e-mail groundctrl about it and got a nonchalant response. Real professional. Axl can throw a hissyfit and throw the mike if one of the stage crew makes a mistake with the sound setup, but we can't criticise him for not doing his job to the best of his ability? Sorry, I didn't realise he was above criticism and we are unworthy.

[22-sweet sister]

Haven't kept up much on forums and whatnot since like 2010 but people on here are ripping him to shreds. Why? I'm watching this video of Estranged from the 20th and he sounds fine. Slightly mickey mouse-ish but fine nonetheless. Sounds like post 1994 Axl to me :shrug:

I'm fulfilling one of my life-long dreams and seeing them for the first time in May, please don't ruin it for me

[maynard]

Because there are a bunch of whiny self-entitled spoiled bitches on this forum who for some reason believe Axl works exclusively for them and not for the 99.9999% of people in the audience who, you know, pay money, and don't care whether or not The General is played.

Some of you really should try being Tool fans if it's the same set every night that bothers you.

Spoiled? Get outta here

[22-sweet sister]

Haven't kept up much on forums and whatnot since like 2010 but people on here are ripping him to shreds. Why? I'm watching this video of Estranged from the 20th and he sounds fine. Slightly mickey mouse-ish but fine nonetheless. Sounds like post 1994 Axl to me :shrug:

I'm fulfilling one of my life-long dreams and seeing them for the first time in May, please don't ruin it for me

fantastic.... ENJOY, ENJOY .... WISH I WAS SEEING HIM TOO ....

[saber_]

From the USA Today interview:

Fans who discount GNR as less legitimate than the original: "They can think whatever they want. I'm not interested in their opinions." -Axl

Sometimes I just think certain people are slow learners, and it's laughable when they conveniently "forget" things that Axl has already addressed and then these people say dumb shit like "Axl's scared to answer this question!" When someone is on such an auto-pilot that they intentionally ignore well-known events (like the USA Today interview), it really illustrates their true intentions, which is just to talk mindlessly talk shit without really thinking.

I'm all for accountability, and Axl needs to be held accountable things, like the helium-sounding voice he uses sometimes, but when people grossly exaggerate his weight (while looking the other way at Slash's moobs when he goes shirtless), I think it demonstrates they're just trolling on auto-pilot.

[22-sweet sister]

Because there are a bunch of whiny self-entitled spoiled bitches on this forum who for some reason believe Axl works exclusively for them and not for the 99.9999% of people in the audience who, you know, pay money, and don't care whether or not The General is played.

Some of you really should try being Tool fans if it's the same set every night that bothers you.

hear, hear ..... you don't like it !!!!!!! then it's simple ..... don't watch, don't read, don't LOOK !!!!

[maynard]

Bringing up Slash to the discussion

Helium voice he uses "sometimes"

[Amir]

Because there are a bunch of whiny self-entitled spoiled bitches on this forum who for some reason believe Axl works exclusively for them and not for the 99.9999% of people in the audience who, you know, pay money, and don't care whether or not The General is played.

Some of you really should try being Tool fans if it's the same set every night that bothers you.

hear, hear ..... you don't like it !!!!!!! then it's simple ..... don't watch, don't read, don't LOOK !!!!

It's called MyGNRForum. Reason for anger from a lot of us is because we care so damn much. If you just want to neglect everything in your life that turns to shit, fine. I'm just hoping that someone in the band sees that there are those of us who are willing to give this band a chance if there are just the slightest of changes to the setlist and more effort from Axl. If you want to keep on enabling the downfall of what many of us consider the Greatest Frontman Of All Time, be my guest. There's trolling, and then there's constructive criticism. There's being sycophantic, and then there's being cruel to be kind. Constant positive reinforcement independent of actual results is not going to improve performance. If anyone's being spoiled here, it's Axl.

[D-GenerationX]

Amir is tearing shit up in this thread. I can't even add to any of that.

Well said.

[Amir]

Amir is tearing shit up in this thread. I can't even add to any of that.

Well said.

Thanks. I find it sad I didn't post more in 2010 when I had so many positive things to say. Even if I was a bit disappointed by 2011-13, I was still trying to defend the band. But seeing Axl stumble onto that stage in Rio unprepared for people who paid up to $180 a ticket... What a slap in the face. I'm posting so much these days because I still care so fucking much. The day I stop posting is the day I stop caring about GNR. Even as a more recent fan, it'll still break my heart, GNR has meant so much for me over the years and completely changed my life, I wouldn't be where I am now if it wasn't for Axl, so for that he will always have part of my respect and admiration. But I can't support his current actions.

[maynard]

The *stop crapping on me* stare.

[MarlaHooch]

Because there are a bunch of whiny self-entitled spoiled bitches on this forum who for some reason believe Axl works exclusively for them and not for the 99.9999% of people in the audience who, you know, pay money, and don't care whether or not The General is played.

Some of you really should try being Tool fans if it's the same set every night that bothers you.

So who does Axl work for? Who pays for the shows? An increasingly small number of people. Even the South American venues are smaller than 2011, and struggling to sell out. Buenos Aires tickets are on Groupon. Do you think people in the audience are dying to hear La Bella Vita instead of a new song? Or seeing Axl walk up to the mike for hard-rocking songs like Nightrain and YCBM?

What about those of us who have been positive over the years and supported this band? We're "whiny and self-entitled" because our support has gone unrewarded? Sorry, I didn't realise this was the BendOverAndTakeItFromAxl forum.

Look at the recent debacle with the South American VIP downgrades. Zero word from management about this, I had to e-mail groundctrl about it and got a nonchalant response. Real professional. Axl can throw a hissyfit and throw the mike if one of the stage crew makes a mistake with the sound setup, but we can't criticise him for not doing his job to the best of his ability? Sorry, I didn't realise he was above criticism and we are unworthy.

...the people at the shows pay for the shows. They certainly pay more than the whiny children posting on the (free) message boards.

If the audience shrinks, that's on them and not your concern. Seems to me if they keep getting booked, the disgruntled opinions of some spoiled children on a message board won't be their downfall.

BTW - would I like more varied sets? Yes, of course. Do I feel I'm owed more varied sets bc I've been a fan for well over half my life and seen this lineup over a half dozen times? Hell no. They don't owe me any more than a performance if I've bought a ticket or an album of good songs if they sell me one. End of debate, really.

Edited March 25, 2014 by MarlaHooch

[Lio]

I was a huge fan of the old band, but I like CD as well and would love to give the 'new' band a chance. I wish they'd play more of the newer/new songs. I know there are some fans/cupcakes around that will never be satisfied (unless there is a reunion), or get their satisfaction from watching this so-called trainwreck, but a lot of the posters here would like nothing more than see Axl/GNR succeed. Sadly, I think Axl is giving the haters much more fuel than the people that (try to) remain positive.

I mean, people on here are flying out to see GNR live, so I wouldn't tell them to just bugger off because they don't like what they see.

[Amir]

...the people at the shows pay for the shows. They certainly pay more than the whiny children posting on the (free) message boards.

If the audience shrinks, that's on them and not your concern. Seems to me if they keep getting booked, the disgruntled opinions of some spoiled children on a message board won't be their downfall.

If you think I'm spoiled for wanting my favourite artist to perform songs he isn't sick of singing to the best of his ability to the biggest crowds possible, cool.

I'd rather not see him settle for second-best, or whatever it is we're getting now. I know it's not 1993, or even 2010, but 52 isn't ancient. There's still time to turn this around before it's too late. I haven't given up on him yet, but I probably should for my own sake. I'm criticising him because I still care.

Edited March 25, 2014 by Amir

[there is no dana only zool]

They have nothing better to do.

They say they are Axl and GNR fans, but all some of you do it bitch about everything and anything Axl does.

Don't you get tired of the same old shit?

Do you not allow for the possibility that some of us hope against all hope and good sense that the situation might improve?

I really believe that if the band were to suddenly bow to their demands, they'd continue to talk shit, because it seems that's what they enjoy doing; finding new ways to try and be funny & cute with their insults. I think it gives a slight but deep feeling of power when a naysayer realizes, "Wow, I'm talking shit serious shit about Axl Rose. Haha." Seems pointless and dumb.

[D-GenerationX]

...the people at the shows pay for the shows. They certainly pay more than the whiny children posting on the (free) message boards.

Can I ask you something?

I've had this exact conversation with Jarmo. Of course, in Jarmo's eyes, I've never made a valid point in my life (not even by accident) but perhaps I will have better luck with you.

- It's a shame they didn't play any new songs. That would show they are at least thinking about moving forward.

- Heard some of the clips from the show. Axl sounds real hit or miss, and to be honest, more miss than hit.

Now...how do you hear either of these and process it as :

- Man, what fucking morons those people in the crowd are. I bet they had one terrible time last night. What a bunch of fucking fools.

In other words, what does one have to do with the other? How does vocalizing an observation about the lack of a new song or Axl's vocal quality have anything to do with the people in the seats that night, and if they were singing along and having fun?

Help me help myself. I need to understand.

[ChineseIRS]

Why do people always assume that the people bitching on the forums are the ones who dont go to the shows, like they havent been to one or more in the last 8 years??

Ive been to almost 10 shows between 2002 and 2012. Mulitple times in the same years...im a huge fan and always stick up for Axl and the band....but guess what, im dissappointed. Being a fan of Axl for 15 years i know what hes capable of performance wise, vocally and physically. And what hes shown from 2012 to this current tour isnt up to his standards. We have a right be be disappointed. Hes literally showing no effort or passion so far on this tour. So u know what, yeah i wouldnt pay to see him right now. But thats not to say that if he turns it around by the States i wont be there. Id totally buy my tickets to see a show this year. But as of now hes not lookin like hes gonna change things.and we have a right to be disgruntled. Just cause im not physically at these shows doesnt mean i dont want my favorite frontman of all time put on an amazing show and sound his best. Im always rooting for Axl. Its just at this point u cant really defend his performances.

[jbhutto]

I think a lot of the bashing is tongue-in-cheek but it's also 100% warranted.

Look at like ESPN when LeBron James has a bad game or something, they send things into

DefCon 1 and act like his career is ending.

So to not expect some amount of antipathy towards the perceived lack of effort and

the weaker vocals is a bit naive. And those things get magnified since Axl has retained

a lot of the eccentricities he had when he was at the top, or near the top of his game.

[Amir]

Here's a post from HisRoyalSweetness relating his conversation with Axl in 2006. I think the 2nd paragraph in particular is very telling:

i got to hang out and talk to him at a party once. he seemed pretty bitter and angry to me. he talked about being so depressed he didn't feel like he could leave the house for years. complained about being alone. complained about fans forsaking and turning on him. complained about the label expectations and his fear that they'd want to make changes in chinese democracy. never mentioned the old band. at the time, he was more hung up on CD. he cracked jokes, though. and was totally aware of the eat my silkworms site, and had a good laugh about it.. del james was with him, and kinda kept him buffered from others. he tried to interrupt axl when he was talking to me several times, until finally axl snapped at him and told him to give him some space and that they'd leave whenever he was ready. all in all, we talked for 20 minutes or so.

my impression overall was that he was sad, angry and lonely. when he complained about fans turning on him, i tried to explain the fan's side... about how deeply artists can speak to fans, and how beyond making music, they're speaking for people who don't know how to or can't for themselves. it may seem silly, but it's a special relationship. so when they feel axl sorta gave up on them, they gave up on him too. but that their 'hate' or 'indifference' was just the flip side of their love and adulation. that one couldn't exist without the other. that haters only exist because they love the guy and deep down inside want to have him back and kicking ass again. he seemed to think about that a little, and told me it was a perspective he hadn't considered before, which seemed weird to me. but then, it's probably not something beta, fernando or del would tell him. after that exchange was when he got a little more laid back and happy. he introduced me to his date and took a picture with an 'eat my silkworms' page.

this was still a year or two before chinese democracy came out, which no doubt was an especially shitty time in his life. hopefully vegas has got him in a much happier place. he was very, very ready to get CD out, and claimed he was extremely proud of it. he was having a good time dancing at the party. it was cool, but overall, i don't think i want to meet my favorite celebrities anymore.

http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?/topic/196742-has-anyone-here-ever-met-axl/#entry3338576

[D-GenerationX]

I really believe that if the band were to suddenly bow to their demands, they'd continue to talk shit, because it seems that's what they enjoy doing; finding new ways to try and be funny & cute with their insults. I think it gives a slight but deep feeling of power when a naysayer realizes, "Wow, I'm talking shit serious shit about Axl Rose. Haha." Seems pointless and dumb.

A certain segment, yes. Obvious cupcake is obvious, and that whole bit.

But we know who they are. And yes, they will never be happy, because most of them find this whole current operation some sort of insult to humanity.

So fine, write them off. Fuck 'em. Lost causes.

But what of people like me? Are you seriously suggesting that if Axl were to be in good voice and giving good shows, I'm still going to "talk shit"? What sense does that make? I am not "talking shit" for spite, I am commenting on what is being presented to me. If what was being presented to me was awesome, I'd say so.

Why do people always assume that the people bitching on the forums are the ones who dont go to the shows, like they havent been to one or more in the last 8 years??

Ive been to almost 10 shows between 2002 and 2012. Mulitple times in the same years...im a huge fan and always stick up for Axl and the band....but guess what, im dissappointed. Being a fan of Axl for 15 years i know what hes capable of performance wise, vocally and physically. And what hes shown from 2012 to this current tour isnt up to his standards. We have a right be be disappointed. Hes literally showing no effort or passion so far on this tour. So u know what, yeah i wouldnt pay to see him right now. But thats not to say that if he turns it around by the States i wont be there. Id totally buy my tickets to see a show this year. But as of now hes not lookin like hes gonna change things.and we have a right to be disgruntled. Just cause im not physically at these shows doesnt mean i dont want my favorite frontman of all time put on an amazing show and sound his best. Im always rooting for Axl. Its just at this point u cant really defend his performances.

Awesome post here.