Why are people crapping on Axl so much these days?

[BangoSkank]

Here's a post from HisRoyalSweetness relating his conversation with Axl in 2006. I think the 2nd paragraph in particular is very telling:

i got to hang out and talk to him at a party once. he seemed pretty bitter and angry to me. he talked about being so depressed he didn't feel like he could leave the house for years. complained about being alone. complained about fans forsaking and turning on him. complained about the label expectations and his fear that they'd want to make changes in chinese democracy. never mentioned the old band. at the time, he was more hung up on CD. he cracked jokes, though. and was totally aware of the eat my silkworms site, and had a good laugh about it.. del james was with him, and kinda kept him buffered from others. he tried to interrupt axl when he was talking to me several times, until finally axl snapped at him and told him to give him some space and that they'd leave whenever he was ready. all in all, we talked for 20 minutes or so.

my impression overall was that he was sad, angry and lonely. when he complained about fans turning on him, i tried to explain the fan's side... about how deeply artists can speak to fans, and how beyond making music, they're speaking for people who don't know how to or can't for themselves. it may seem silly, but it's a special relationship. so when they feel axl sorta gave up on them, they gave up on him too. but that their 'hate' or 'indifference' was just the flip side of their love and adulation. that one couldn't exist without the other. that haters only exist because they love the guy and deep down inside want to have him back and kicking ass again. he seemed to think about that a little, and told me it was a perspective he hadn't considered before, which seemed weird to me. but then, it's probably not something beta, fernando or del would tell him. after that exchange was when he got a little more laid back and happy. he introduced me to his date and took a picture with an 'eat my silkworms' page.

this was still a year or two before chinese democracy came out, which no doubt was an especially shitty time in his life. hopefully vegas has got him in a much happier place. he was very, very ready to get CD out, and claimed he was extremely proud of it. he was having a good time dancing at the party. it was cool, but overall, i don't think i want to meet my favorite celebrities anymore.

http://www.mygnrforum.com/index.php?/topic/196742-has-anyone-here-ever-met-axl/#entry3338576

Much, much thanks for this, been wanting to read a detailed version of this story for a while.

[Miss Paradise]

They have nothing better to do.

They say they are Axl and GNR fans, but all some of you do it bitch about everything and anything Axl does.

Don't you get tired of the same old shit?

I agree. I mean, being a GnR/ Axl Rose fan can be frustrating, but complain all the time is sucks!

Axl is far from perfect, but people concentrates too much on his negative side. If you are not satisfied with the way he is driving the band now, just go get a life. Forget about GnR for a while, there are so many other interesting things out there, besides Guns n' Roses. Stop concentrating all your energies in being frustrated about the lack of new material and new set lists.

I'm not saying fans can't be critical, but is getting ridiculous, they always say the same things over and over again.

[magisme]

Waaaaaaaaaahhhhhh!!! I don't like that other people have opinions and express them! Waaaaaahhhhhh!!!

[jbhutto]

They have nothing better to do.

They say they are Axl and GNR fans, but all some of you do it bitch about everything and anything Axl does.

Don't you get tired of the same old shit?

Do you not allow for the possibility that some of us hope against all hope and good sense that the situation might improve?

I really believe that if the band were to suddenly bow to their demands, they'd continue to talk shit, because it seems that's what they enjoy doing; finding new ways to try and be funny & cute with their insults. I think it gives a slight but deep feeling of power when a naysayer realizes, "Wow, I'm talking shit serious shit about Axl Rose. Haha." Seems pointless and dumb.

I disagree completely here. If a band is making music I'm usually as happy as a clam. Take, for example, the Pixies.

Some of the different media outlets (namely Pitchfork) are crapping on the band's new music (mostly because Kim Deal

split ) , but I'm really liking it, no complaints. They've been releasing a new 4 song EP every 3-4 months and iirc they've

had an official video for every song, which is cool.

So for me at least, if GnR put out new music I'd be happy with it even if it wasn't at the level I would expect. People are

entertaining themselves by coming up with insults and whatnot because there's not much else to discuss with the current

band.

There's a difference too between true vitriol and legit concern / criticism / jabs. Is it productive? No, but neither is Axl (sorry jk lol).

Edited March 25, 2014 by jbhutto

[Jordan Rose]

I'm absolutely blown away by the quality of posting in this thread. I think it may be the best 'constructive criticism' or 'justified analysis' thread ever in so few pages.

Amir, thank you so much, you've hit the ball out of the park so many times i've lost count. There's nothing i'd even want to add.

You've pulled out so many great quotes to support your points this week but re-reading HRS's account of his talk with Axl really shocked me.

Back when I read that and even some of Axl's comments about not caring about the next album etc, I brushed them off because I really thought there'd be another album out by now, for certain.

But now when you put it all together in the conext of what we've seen from him this week and the tragic reality is that 'the dream' might be over. No Round 2, no videos, no interviews, no award shows, no re-habbed Guns/Axl/reputation/respect/critical acclaim/generation of new fans.

You're right, that second paragraph is really revealing: if back in 2006 he didn't understand on any level that a huge part of the negativity came from some of us already waiting for over a decade and feeling like he'd abandoned us then by this point he must absolutely despise us.

[Nosaj Thing]

Why? Because Axl sounds utterly awful since 2011. That's why.

[niceguy]

Why am I crapping on him? Here's why:

Yesterday, I was in a dark mood, and I listened to Estranged on my iPhone. Here I am, in the hippest neighborhood of Brooklyn, pissed off and angry and sad, and Estranged is the ONLY thing which helped--none of that trendy indie bullshit. Sure, I wish I could take the reverb off the drums and mix the guitars better, but Axl's voice and lyrics interacted with me on a profoundly deep level.

And then there's Axl on tour, just a complete wreck, totally doesn't care. There's BBF shredding diarrhea all over the classics, DJ being a douche, Tommy clearly just thinking about his next paycheck.

GNR meant a lot to me in my life, and Axl was a big part of that. I'm angry at him for not giving a shit anymore. If he wants to just curl up and die, then fine, go curl up and die. But if he is going to parade his cast of talentless cover-musicians and scream like a whiny girl instead of singing, then I'm going to crap on him.

Edited March 25, 2014 by niceguy

[rumandraisin]

Because Axl looks like shit, sounds like shit and puts no effort into even getting one new song rehearsed and performed or even released for download?

How hard would it be for one song to be released by the band? That would satisfy us for a few months, probably a year! We ask for such tiny things us fans, a few new songs on a new tour, it isn't much to ask for.

[saber_]

And then there's Axl on tour, just a complete wreck, totally doesn't care. There's BBF shredding diarrhea all over the classics, DJ being a douche, Tommy clearly just thinking about his next paycheck..

Yeah, because BBF sure does "shred" all over Estranged every time.

[IndiannaRose]

Haven't kept up much on forums and whatnot since like 2010 but people on here are ripping him to shreds. Why? I'm watching this video of Estranged from the 20th and he sounds fine. Slightly mickey mouse-ish but fine nonetheless. Sounds like post 1994 Axl to me :shrug:

I'm fulfilling one of my life-long dreams and seeing them for the first time in May, please don't ruin it for me

Because he clearly just isn't trying anymore.

[Janis]

It's weird why such criticism. It's more like a bash Axl board rather than a fan forum.He sounds good. Listen to estranged here his voice is great. People forget his is his natural baritone voice. His higher register singing is was never natural for him and it's not uncommon for rock singers in their 50s to lose their quality there. His naturla voice is till intact.

[niceguy]

And then there's Axl on tour, just a complete wreck, totally doesn't care. There's BBF shredding diarrhea all over the classics, DJ being a douche, Tommy clearly just thinking about his next paycheck..

Yeah, because BBF sure does "shred" all over Estranged every time.

Dude if I want to hear someone else other than Slash play the leads to Estranged, then I'll just fucking play it myself. You can have BBF up there, or BH, or Robin, or Joey, or Bradley, or Sarah, or the school nurse playing that lead, and I still don't give a shit.

[Apollo]

Waaaaaaaaaahhhhhh!!! I don't like that other people have opinions and express them! Waaaaaahhhhhh!!!

No kidding.

I'd rather hear people give their honest opinions about GUNS N ROSES on a GUNS N ROSES FORUM rather than these posters who keep telling other posters how they should post or live their lives.

[ShadowOfTheWave]

Because Axl took over GNR, and told the fans who stuck with him in the "war" that he had a vision and a purpose for carrying on with GNR. Yet all he does is milk the past success of the band, success earned by five individuals, solely for himself and his personal fortune.

[saber_]

Grogin seems to have conveniently forgotten how many times he's told other posters how they should post or live their lives.

Delicious irony.

People are free to express their opinion, and in the case of Axl's voice, fair play. In the case of no music, fair game. In the case of no interviews, fuck yeah Axl needs to be held accountable. But I think it's warranted to be annoyed or vexed when people incessantly make fat jokes and exaggerate Axl's weight and make derogatory remarks about him just for sport. Of course a lot of those same people won't share pictures of themselves, because a lot of them are probably heavier than Axl. Gotta love the internet.

[Nightrain7]

Because he isn't Axl Rose anymore.

[ITG]

Because they are all out to get him.

[MarlaHooch]

...the people at the shows pay for the shows. They certainly pay more than the whiny children posting on the (free) message boards.

Can I ask you something?

I've had this exact conversation with Jarmo. Of course, in Jarmo's eyes, I've never made a valid point in my life (not even by accident) but perhaps I will have better luck with you.

- It's a shame they didn't play any new songs. That would show they are at least thinking about moving forward.

- Heard some of the clips from the show. Axl sounds real hit or miss, and to be honest, more miss than hit.

Now...how do you hear either of these and process it as :

- Man, what fucking morons those people in the crowd are. I bet they had one terrible time last night. What a bunch of fucking fools.

In other words, what does one have to do with the other? How does vocalizing an observation about the lack of a new song or Axl's vocal quality have anything to do with the people in the seats that night, and if they were singing along and having fun?

Help me help myself. I need to understand.

Hmmm, well for one thing, I guarantee 99 out of 100 people in the crowd aren't going to say afterwards, "I'd give that a B. Had they done a new/unreleased song, I'd give it an A." Those types of fans really just don't exist outside the boards. In fact, to 99 out of 100 in the crowd, the CD songs are "new" to them anyway. Concerning Axl's performance, it's hard for me to say to be honest. I've seen him have off-nights (Hollywood Palladium in 2013 comes to mind) but the people I was with thought he sounded great, then I saw YouTube clips and it sounded even worse than I'd originally thought. I think in a nutshell, people are stoked to see Axl Rose perform, and Axl on his worst night is still a better experience than most other rock shows out there (unless it's REALLY bad like Bridge School or something).

Don't get me wrong, Axl's performances have seen better days and the set is stale as shit the past year or so. Personally, I probably won't see them in the US if nothing changes between now and whenever they come back around here, but that's more just me saving money than some angry protest or something.

Criticisms/hopes/wishes/desires/etc...all fine and dandy in my book. It's this whole "They BETTER change their set or I'M LEAVING and this band is DONE" hissy fit tantrum type stuff that cracks me up, and that's where I get into the whole 'people who aren't at the shows whining and crying' thing. Like, really? They're pulling 4-5 digits' worth of people in every city, yet 50-60 particularly loud and entitled folks on a message board spread throughout the globe think their voice is the one that should be considered?

The fact that I probably won't see this tour as it is now, just like I chose not to see Tool last week because they've been playing 80% the same 90 minute set for the past 8 years (yeah, that's right, 90 minutes, like I said earlier, try being a Tool fan!).....in the grand scheme of things doesn't mean a whole lot. GN'R and Tool will go on as touring entities regardless of the fact that one particularly die-hard fan may choose to stay home because of setlist complaints.

Bottom line - for every one of me (or someone on the board) who stays home because of a setlist gripe, another 10-15 will go and discover the band for the first time, and frankly, I hope they get the "stale" set because it has all the hits! The show is obviously largely aimed at them and not potential repeat customers, and that's GN'R's right to make that decision as far as which part of their audience they choose to cater towards. More power to them.

[magisme]

lol @ people going to GNR shows and discovering them for the first time

Shit thread.

[cheesecake]

Gotta love all of Amir's posts on this thread. Amir you really own this thread. Thanks for posting.

[Apollo]

...the people at the shows pay for the shows. They certainly pay more than the whiny children posting on the (free) message boards.

Can I ask you something?

I've had this exact conversation with Jarmo. Of course, in Jarmo's eyes, I've never made a valid point in my life (not even by accident) but perhaps I will have better luck with you.

- It's a shame they didn't play any new songs. That would show they are at least thinking about moving forward.

- Heard some of the clips from the show. Axl sounds real hit or miss, and to be honest, more miss than hit.

Now...how do you hear either of these and process it as :

- Man, what fucking morons those people in the crowd are. I bet they had one terrible time last night. What a bunch of fucking fools.

In other words, what does one have to do with the other? How does vocalizing an observation about the lack of a new song or Axl's vocal quality have anything to do with the people in the seats that night, and if they were singing along and having fun?

Help me help myself. I need to understand.

Hmmm, well for one thing, I guarantee 99 out of 100 people in the crowd aren't going to say afterwards, "I'd give that a B. Had they done a new/unreleased song, I'd give it an A." Those types of fans really just don't exist outside the boards. In fact, to 99 out of 100 in the crowd, the CD songs are "new" to them anyway. Concerning Axl's performance, it's hard for me to say to be honest. I've seen him have off-nights (Hollywood Palladium in 2013 comes to mind) but the people I was with thought he sounded great, then I saw YouTube clips and it sounded even worse than I'd originally thought. I think in a nutshell, people are stoked to see Axl Rose perform, and Axl on his worst night is still a better experience than most other rock shows out there (unless it's REALLY bad like Bridge School or something).

Don't get me wrong, Axl's performances have seen better days and the set is stale as shit the past year or so. Personally, I probably won't see them in the US if nothing changes between now and whenever they come back around here, but that's more just me saving money than some angry protest or something.

Criticisms/hopes/wishes/desires/etc...all fine and dandy in my book. It's this whole "They BETTER change their set or I'M LEAVING and this band is DONE" hissy fit tantrum type stuff that cracks me up, and that's where I get into the whole 'people who aren't at the shows whining and crying' thing. Like, really? They're pulling 4-5 digits' worth of people in every city, yet 50-60 particularly loud and entitled folks on a message board spread throughout the globe think their voice is the one that should be considered?

The fact that I probably won't see this tour as it is now, just like I chose not to see Tool last week because they've been playing 80% the same 90 minute set for the past 8 years (yeah, that's right, 90 minutes, like I said earlier, try being a Tool fan!).....in the grand scheme of things doesn't mean a whole lot. GN'R and Tool will go on as touring entities regardless of the fact that one particularly die-hard fan may choose to stay home because of setlist complaints.

Bottom line - for every one of me (or someone on the board) who stays home because of a setlist gripe, another 10-15 will go and discover the band for the first time, and frankly, I hope they get the "stale" set because it has all the hits! The show is obviously largely aimed at them and not potential repeat customers, and that's GN'R's right to make that decision as far as which part of their audience they choose to cater towards. More power to them.

Why do you care so much about what a few random strangers think on a rock n roll forum?

You also spin a lot of things in your post. Attendance at shows are declining. There is a reason for that.

"Stale" setlist and hits...........can anybody point out where people have said that GnR needs to change their entire setlist? We would just like to see something change. Hardcore lifelong GnR fans want to hear their favorite singer's newest creations. Axl has released one album in the last 20 years, there is NOTHING wrong with fans wanting new music. Why is it OK for you to say the shows are stale and you aren't going....but not OK for other people to say that?

LOL. You really think that GnR shows are "aimed" at people who have never heard of GnR and not for long-time fans?

It's weird how people like you have to twist everything so much.

Personally, I'm extremely thankful for the Mods and the entire organization that is Mygnrforum.com. GnR fans are allowed to share their opinions and the site isn't made up of mindless drones who praise everything Axl does. Why people complain about this is beyond me. At least the "haters/cupcakes/etc" are talking about the BAND that the forum is dedicated to, and not just writing rants about other posters. Think about that.

********

Amir has effortlessly moved into the Top Ten posters of the forum. Well done.

Edited March 26, 2014 by Groghan

[IncitingChaos]

This place can be really positive and supportive, but right now it is going to be negative. That's telling of Axl's recent performances. Nobody wants to bash Axl, but he hasn't given his fan base anything to be positive about.

I don't want to be negative. I've actually supported Axl quite a bit, but after the first couple shows I just saw a half ass effort from setlist to performance. Axl is better than he is showing and it is frustrating that he doesn't seem to care anymore.

[GN'R Forever]

lol @ people going to GNR shows and discovering them for the first time

Shit thread.

Um? I've been a Guns N' Roses fan since I was born. I've seen every piece of concert footage that's out there of them from 1986 to 2006. Hell, my account on this forum is older than yours. It isn't like I'm new to Guns N' Roses, I just happen to not be 40 years old and have had to grow up with them touring on and off in other countries rather than areas close to me in the US

[Amir]

Because he isn't Axl Rose anymore.

Should have just said this instead of all my long-winded posts

[rumandraisin]

Bottom line is, one album in 21 years...

Even Axls worshippers cannot defend that