Why are people crapping on Axl so much these days?

[alfierose]

I hadn't heard about the Tommy tweet. Dodgy excuse there!

[Forsaken]

I would just love to hear Axl perform at the level he was at in 2010, I just don't see how this isn't possible. His performances in 2010 were fucking solid and I can't seem to fathom how that has withered away so quickly.

There's a few signs that he was damaging his voice in 2010 (cancelled Sao Paulo and London private/club shows, slightly weaker voice in Australia and Abu Dhabi), but even still, it's not like he continued singing from Dec 2010 to Oct 2011, and the difference between Abu Dhabi 2010 and Rio 2011 is huge. Atlantic City and Philly 2012, he sang pretty damn well, a bit Mickey on YCBM, 2nd half of Estranged, and parts of Civil War, but for the most part like a good 2010 show. Even so, it's obvious he wasn't quite as fit (in the You're Crazy and Rocket Queen vids from Philly that people post, he's gasping for breath a lot more than 2010).

Another thing is all the Azoff shenanigans and whatever business stuff happened between 2010 and 2011. I just don't think Axl prepared at all, and went out on that Rio stage cold. Might have worked in '91, but that shit isn't gonna fly when you're 50 years old.

The guy was ready to call it quits in mid-2010 when the label yet again rejected a prospective album, but was convinced otherwise by TB. Now he's being trotted out to support everyone. And seeing how mellow he is recently along with his quip on Kimmel about being on stuff, I reckon he's doped up on a load of antidepressants which keep him happy but take away that fire that made him a world-class performer.

He also had something to prove/was pissed off in '09/'10 because of the Azoff shenanigans. Now he's surrounded by no one but hangers-on who tell him the sun shines out of his arse.

I don't see anything changing any time soon, sadly

Yeah, such a shame, although the album talk in mid-2010 may be pure speculation(we'll never truly know), I still can't see how he wouldn't at least practice vocals before hitting tours. I get it, he's aging, and I, nor anyone for that matter expects him to sound like he did in the 90's, but at least something respectable. 2010 was a great year for the band performance wise and even leading into 2012 he had some pretty decent performances. Such a drastic fall off from just a few years ago. Not quite sure about the antidepressant talk either but you never know.

[ll_tj1]

I understand if GNR is contractually bound to UMG. But, if they (UMG) have been given an album, and refuse to release it, then I would certainly have to believe Axl and Guns N Roses could take legal action to help themselves out of what would seem to be a helpless situation. But, the fact that things just continue on without a word from TB, or Axl himself, only seems to further prove there is no real concern on there part to release any new music. If it were me, id be letting my fans and anyone else who would listen and say "Hey!!! Im getting fucked here. We want to get out new material, but the lable is holding us hostage".

I just honestly believe now, the Axl is perfectly content with touring the greatest hits, and enjoying the road, and not having to deal with exposing himself to further criticism with another release. I think hes pretty much in retirement mode. Kicking ack, and making a living off of his past. Of which is entirely his choice, and totally fine if he chooses to do so. But all the stringing along of potential new releases and new music, should be put to rest. Just come out and have the balls to say what your intentions are. Dont keep making excuses and forcing your band members to look like idiots when they get asked about the possibility of something new.

[Apollo]

I understand if GNR is contractually bound to UMG. But, if they (UMG) have been given an album, and refuse to release it, then I would certainly have to believe Axl and Guns N Roses could take legal action to help themselves out of what would seem to be a helpless situation. But, the fact that things just continue on without a word from TB, or Axl himself, only seems to further prove there is no real concern on there part to release any new music. If it were me, id be letting my fans and anyone else who would listen and say "Hey!!! Im getting fucked here. We want to get out new material, but the lable is holding us hostage".

I just honestly believe now, the Axl is perfectly content with touring the greatest hits, and enjoying the road, and not having to deal with exposing himself to further criticism with another release. I think hes pretty much in retirement mode. Kicking ack, and making a living off of his past. Of which is entirely his choice, and totally fine if he chooses to do so. But all the stringing along of potential new releases and new music, should be put to rest. Just come out and have the balls to say what your intentions are. Dont keep making excuses and forcing your band members to look like idiots when they get asked about the possibility of something new.

Best post I've read today.

It really is a shame that his fans would be more excited for his future career than the actual artist is.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Groghan

[maynard]

I understand if GNR is contractually bound to UMG. But, if they (UMG) have been given an album, and refuse to release it, then I would certainly have to believe Axl and Guns N Roses could take legal action to help themselves out of what would seem to be a helpless situation. But, the fact that things just continue on without a word from TB, or Axl himself, only seems to further prove there is no real concern on there part to release any new music. If it were me, id be letting my fans and anyone else who would listen and say "Hey!!! Im getting fucked here. We want to get out new material, but the lable is holding us hostage".

I just honestly believe now, the Axl is perfectly content with touring the greatest hits, and enjoying the road, and not having to deal with exposing himself to further criticism with another release. I think hes pretty much in retirement mode. Kicking ack, and making a living off of his past. Of which is entirely his choice, and totally fine if he chooses to do so. But all the stringing along of potential new releases and new music, should be put to rest. Just come out and have the balls to say what your intentions are. Dont keep making excuses and forcing your band members to look like idiots when they get asked about the possibility of something new.

Great post. Wonder how the apologists can answer this one.

[downzy]

I understand if GNR is contractually bound to UMG. But, if they (UMG) have been given an album, and refuse to release it, then I would certainly have to believe Axl and Guns N Roses could take legal action to help themselves out of what would seem to be a helpless situation. But, the fact that things just continue on without a word from TB, or Axl himself, only seems to further prove there is no real concern on there part to release any new music. If it were me, id be letting my fans and anyone else who would listen and say "Hey!!! Im getting fucked here. We want to get out new material, but the lable is holding us hostage".

I just honestly believe now, the Axl is perfectly content with touring the greatest hits, and enjoying the road, and not having to deal with exposing himself to further criticism with another release. I think hes pretty much in retirement mode. Kicking ack, and making a living off of his past. Of which is entirely his choice, and totally fine if he chooses to do so. But all the stringing along of potential new releases and new music, should be put to rest. Just come out and have the balls to say what your intentions are. Dont keep making excuses and forcing your band members to look like idiots when they get asked about the possibility of something new.

I think the only plausible explanation for UMG turning down an album submitted by Axl is that the album was nothing more than a re-mixed album and throwaway songs. If Axl was submitting that kind of album in an attempt to satisfy his contractual obligations, then I can see why UMG would reject it.

The contract probably stipulates that the album must be of original content. Axl may have wanted to skirt that a bit by submitting a few throwaway tracks (i.e. Silkworms, Going Down) and a re-mixed Chinese Democracy.

Any notion that UMG is turning down an album by GNR that contains original content is ludicrous. With so few albums selling big numbers, any artist that can move over a million albums world wide is getting released. The suits at UMG probably thought it wasn't worth throwing away an obligated GNR album that was nothing more than re-mixes and throwaway tracks. If GNR owes them another new album, then that's probably what they're holding out for.

Edited March 28, 2014 by downzy

[Gracii Guns]

Reading this thread, it makes me think that Axl doesn't want to be famous anymore. He makes music when he wants because that's all that he knows he can do.

I think he'd be good working in a management role for a medium-sized company and attending the occasional open mic night on weekends.

[downzy]

I think he'd be good working in a management role for a medium-sized company and attending the occasional open mic night on weekends.

Yeah, good luck getting him to show up to work on time

[jmapelian]

Couldn't he do like Prince and change the band name - rather than an unpronouncable syllable - to circumvent the label? All those years Prince went as the symbol people thought he was being an eccentric prick, only to be revealed many years later that it was caused by a dispute with his label

[Amir]

Any notion that UMG is turning down an album by GNR that contains original content is ludicrous. With so few albums selling big numbers, any artist that can move over a million albums world wide is getting released. The suits at UMG probably thought it wasn't worth throwing away an obligated GNR album that was nothing more than re-mixes and throwaway tracks. If GNR owes them another new album, then that's probably what they're holding out for.

But ChiDem didn't even sell a million. Best Buy bought a million-odd copies, but I think they managed to shift about half of them? Rest ended up in Dollar Trees, etc. And ChiDem hit no. 3 with 240,000 copies sold, a few years later you can hit number one with less than 100,000.

Also, even if UMG wanted to "dump" the album, I don't think Axl would ever let them. I think he wants the monumental promotion he wanted for ChiDem.

[downzy]

Any notion that UMG is turning down an album by GNR that contains original content is ludicrous. With so few albums selling big numbers, any artist that can move over a million albums world wide is getting released. The suits at UMG probably thought it wasn't worth throwing away an obligated GNR album that was nothing more than re-mixes and throwaway tracks. If GNR owes them another new album, then that's probably what they're holding out for.

But ChiDem didn't even sell a million. Best Buy bought a million-odd copies, but I think they managed to shift about half of them? Rest ended up in Dollar Trees, etc. And ChiDem hit no. 3 with 240,000 copies sold, a few years later you can hit number one with less than 100,000.

Also, even if UMG wanted to "dump" the album, I don't think Axl would ever let them. I think he wants the monumental promotion he wanted for ChiDem.

It did worldwide, hence why I said that an artist like Guns N' Roses who can move over a million albums worldwide isn't going to get turned down.

[Amir]

Maybe, but what's the promotion album gonna be? If it's Chinese Leftovers, are you gonna include Finck + Bucket in the promotional materials? It was odd enough seeing Bucket in that leaked Better video. I remember Axl saying something about Finck only being needed for "the ever-elusive promos" for the follow-up to ChiDem, but this was before Ashba was announced to be in the band, so I don't think that's gonna happen any more, and there was one interview where Ashba said he recorded over some of all the old songs.

It's just a mess from an outsider's/the label's point of view, there's no logical/sane way to approach it. People already know it's not Slash & co., hence the lukewarm response to ChiDem. There's nary a flattering photo of Axl from the past couple of years to slap on a press release. It's too much headache for too little reward, even Trent Reznor complained how at Interscope he was ignored for higher-selling/more popular artists. 50 Cent recently managed to get himself out of his Interscope deal where he still owed another album, but that was a) because he has good personal relations with Dre and Eminem (Shady Records), and b) he only moved to Capitol and Columbia, who are still under the UMG umbrella.

[downzy]

Maybe, but what's the promotion album gonna be? If it's Chinese Leftovers, are you gonna include Finck + Bucket in the promotional materials? It was odd enough seeing Bucket in that leaked Better video. I remember Axl saying something about Finck only being needed for "the ever-elusive promos" for the follow-up to ChiDem, but this was before Ashba was announced to be in the band, so I don't think that's gonna happen any more, and there was one interview where Ashba said he recorded over some of all the old songs.

It's just a mess from an outsider's/the label's point of view, there's no logical/sane way to approach it. People already know it's not Slash & co., hence the lukewarm response to ChiDem. There's nary a flattering photo of Axl from the past couple of years to slap on a press release. It's too much headache for too little reward, even Trent Reznor complained how at Interscope he was ignored for higher-selling/more popular artists. 50 Cent recently managed to get himself out of his Interscope deal where he still owed another album, but that was a) because he has good personal relations with Dre and Eminem (Shady Records), and b) he only moved to Capitol and Columbia, who are still under the UMG umbrella.

It would have to be marketed in a manner that suits the times. So little to no band pictures, perhaps use stylized graphics and whatnot. If the music is strong people will buy it. I'm not sure if not having Slash was the primary reason the album didn't do well. The weak single certainly didn't help. The fact that there really was no concerted effort to release follow up singles didn't help either. If I hadn't exposed my friends to songs like Better or TWAT, they would have never have heard them. Chinese Democracy severely under performed, but I doubt the lack of Slash was the determinative factor.

If all the next album is solid songs with Axl giving a decent vocal performance, I don't see how the album doesn't sell. The general public really doesn't care about who else is in the band. Nobody is buying the next Guns N' Roses album because Fortus is on it. So long as it has Axl, good songs, and the GNR name, it will move a million or more around the world. To worry about how to promote the band is kind of pointless at this point from the label's perspective. If Axl still thinks he needs a "monumental" marketing and promotional effort to sell music, he's sorely underestimating his own talents as a songwriter and vocalist (though his recent performances might validate such a claim).

[Amir]

If they'd skipped the title track as a single, Better had a video, TIL was the 2nd single, and Axl had done some more timely and public promo, I think the album could have shifted a fair few more copies. TIL seems to have the most crossover appeal, it's almost like the SCOM of ChiDem.

I love TWAT, one of my all-time favourite songs, but I don't see it as single material.

[moreblack]

Because clean weak voice is better than the old one.

[ITG]

They aren't. Most people don't care. I've kind of blocked him out of my mind altogether. I can't be bothered to watch the actual videos of him singing. What are people to expect? Even the cupcakes are gone.

[downzy]

If they'd skipped the title track as a single, Better had a video, TIL was the 2nd single, and Axl had done some more timely and public promo, I think the album could have shifted a fair few more copies. TIL seems to have the most crossover appeal, it's almost like the SCOM of ChiDem.

I love TWAT, one of my all-time favourite songs, but I don't see it as single material.

I know it's anecdotal, but not a single person I played TIL liked it; almost all thought it was cheesy and corny. I think there was one or two female friends that liked it, but most saw it as Axl's failed attempt to write a broadway musical.

Most liked Better, TWAT, and Madagascar the best (remember, these are people who hadn't heard the leaks). I think GNR could have gotten away with TWAT as a single as songs like November Rain and Estranged had already conditioned the public to accept these kinds of songs. TWAT was the most GNR sounding song on the album, and for that reason I think it would have worked as a single. Not the first, definitely should have been Better, but would have made sense as the second single. Would have reassured the public that even without the old band, Axl could still produce the kind of songs we all know and love.

[Caught in a Coma]

The guy was ready to call it quits in mid-2010 when the label yet again rejected a prospective album, but was convinced otherwise by TB. Now he's being trotted out to support everyone. And seeing how mellow he is recently along with his quip on Kimmel about being on stuff, I reckon he's doped up on a load of antidepressants which keep him happy but take away that fire that made him a world-class performer.

He also had something to prove/was pissed off in '09/'10 because of the Azoff shenanigans. Now he's surrounded by no one but hangers-on who tell him the sun shines out of his arse.

I don't see anything changing any time soon, sadly

Certainly seems that way.

But is this rejected album in 2010 talk real? Was that ever really confirmed?

all speculation

[wasted]

I think the reality is that no matter what songs you selected as singles it was always going to sell about what it did. The trade off of money spent on videos to promote it wouldn't be returned. With videos we might have felt more an illusion of success. We were never going to get 5 videos.

I think we know it's just the line up change, maybe a bit of the sound. But if it was the old band releasing CD in 2008 there would be no issues, all would be forgiven.

As I understand it the singles were:

Shackler's Revenge - Rock Band 2 tie in.

If The World - Body of Lies movie tie in.

Chinese Democracy - released as digital single? went to radio

Better - video not released, limited radio play

Street of Dreams - went to radio?

What seems to get played live Chi Dem, Better, Street of Dreams, This I Love. Madagascar, Sorry, Catcher and Shacklers have got some play too.

TWAT definitely seems like a fan favorite. But it doesn't get played live much and never had a video. Axl is quoted as saying it's his favorite.

The Best Buy songs were Chinese Democracy, If The World, There Was A Time.

There's a hell of a lot of potential singles without any of them being that commercial.

Looking at it they seemed to waste the video and movie tie in on songs they weren't going to play live much.

Better as first single followed by This I Love maybe have had the most impact.

[Turn_It_Up]

TIL seems to have the most crossover appeal, it's almost like the SCOM of ChiDem.

Almost. But not really. At all.

Please take this back.

[wasted]

I would say Better is more the SCOM of CD and TIL is the Nov Rain.

[Amir]

TIL seems to have the most crossover appeal, it's almost like the SCOM of ChiDem.

Almost. But not really. At all.

Please take this back.

It's the ChiDem song that has the most YouTube videos + views, and the one that gets the best crowd reaction at shows. Yeah, there are people who think its cheesy, but that's the same with November Rain.

[wasted]

If UYI had YCBM, DC, and NR.

CD could have been Better, If The World and This I Love.

[The Black]

Why doesn't he use rasp in his live performances?

Why doesn't he rehearse properly before a tour?

Why does he show up late to a performance?

Why did he take 15 or so years to release one album?

Why doesn't he release an album of new material?

Why can't he book a studio and get his employees to write some new material?

Why did Izzy quit?

Why did Slash quit?
Why did Duff quit?

Why does he feel the need to tour endlessly with the same setlist?

Why does Guns N' Roses have an amateur management team?

..... Nope, can't think of one good reason why Axl deserves crap, being the flawless man that he is.

[Young_Gun]

Why doesn't he use rasp in his live performances?

Why doesn't he rehearse properly before a tour?

Why does he show up late to a performance?

Why did he take 15 or so years to release one album?

Why doesn't he release an album of new material?

Why can't he book a studio and get his employees to write some new material?

Why does he feel the need to tour endlessly with the same setlist?

Why does Guns N' Roses have an amateur management team?

..... Nope, can't think of one good reason why Axl deserves crap, being the flawless man that he is.

These factors are all under Axl's control and yet, he has shown that he really does not give a fuck about giving it his best shot. No new songs, same setlists, shitty voice, piss-poor management, etc. No one would really care if Axl showed up 20 pounds heavier if he sang like he did in 2006 or 2010. But here he is, bloated AND sounding terrible. Clearly did not rehearse or prep his voice for the tour. Shows how much he really cares. I think after the debacle of the botched Chidem release(which was mostly Axl's fault because he went overtime and overbudget), he realized the label were not going to put out another Guns record with the promotion and effort that he felt it deserved. Hell, the label might not care for another Guns record that doesn't feature Slash and simply are not interested in Axl's bullshit antics.