Why are people crapping on Axl so much these days?

[Gunzen]

Bottom line is, one album in 21 years...

Even Axls worshippers cannot defend that

Defend what? Are we the ones who decide what others do for their livelihood? He has been touring for 20 years. I would love new music, but i am not him, and he can do whatever the fuck he wants, and if I don't like it, tough. Defend a guy because he doesn't do what YOU think he should do? I don't even know that that means?

i don't think anyone literally believes they have a right, as a fan, to dictate axl's actions. you're being hyperbolic. it's certainly understandable for a fan of a musician to expect more than one record in two decades, especially when the musician in question promised multiple albums' worth of material as far back as the late 1990s. it's not like axl disappeared and fans got angry because he decided to quietly retire. the guy kept the band name and justified his actions by repeatedly stating that he planned to move the band forward and release multiple new records. my point being, of course axl doesn't literally owe anyone anything, but it's not unreasonable for a fan of his to be disappointed and to have expected more.

No, they absolutely do. I am not using hyperbole. Disappointment is one thing, but criticizing a mans character, accusing him of stealing, not caring about his fans, etc is a joke. I used to love to come here, but it is just to cunty now. If you wanna say he doesnt sound good then be at the show, and then just say it, but don't watch a phone clip and say the show sucks.

The guy was a beast for like six years when the band started. So energetic, so captivating, so confident..... Then... The band fell apart but he continued on. Then 2002 - jerseys, braids, the voice, buckethead, robin, the industrial sound... Then a cancelled tour and no album. Then a new tour that was actually kind of cool in 2006 and everything seemed set to go.... Then nothing... Then an album out of nowhere and Axl is MIA... Then nothing... Then the greatest hits tour which keeps on rolling. Man, it's so interesting to me. He sort of asks for the crap he gets given the past twenty years and especially considering what came before it.

The guys life is just so fucking weird and his crazy actions turned from crazy good (and bad) to just crazy bad around 2007 so that's why he gets so much crap from his biggest supporters.

He gets crap cause people think they are entitled to thing in this country, including their music. If you dont goto a show, how the fuck can you spend half a thread ranting about it?

Edited March 27, 2014 by Gunzen

[Tom2112]

Bottom line is, one album in 21 years...

Even Axls worshippers cannot defend that

Defend what? Are we the ones who decide what others do for their livelihood? He has been touring for 20 years. I would love new music, but i am not him, and he can do whatever the fuck he wants, and if I don't like it, tough. Defend a guy because he doesn't do what YOU think he should do? I don't even know that that means?

i don't think anyone literally believes they have a right, as a fan, to dictate axl's actions. you're being hyperbolic. it's certainly understandable for a fan of a musician to expect more than one record in two decades, especially when the musician in question promised multiple albums' worth of material as far back as the late 1990s. it's not like axl disappeared and fans got angry because he decided to quietly retire. the guy kept the band name and justified his actions by repeatedly stating that he planned to move the band forward and release multiple new records. my point being, of course axl doesn't literally owe anyone anything, but it's not unreasonable for a fan of his to be disappointed and to have expected more.

No, they absolutely do. I am not using hyperbole. Disappointment is one thing, but criticizing a mans character, accusing him of stealing, not caring about his fans, etc is a joke. I used to love to come here, but it is just to cunty now. If you wanna say he doesnt sound good then be at the show, and then just say it, but don't watch a phone clip and say the show sucks.

The guy was a beast for like six years when the band started. So energetic, so captivating, so confident..... Then... The band fell apart but he continued on. Then 2002 - jerseys, braids, the voice, buckethead, robin, the industrial sound... Then a cancelled tour and no album. Then a new tour that was actually kind of cool in 2006 and everything seemed set to go.... Then nothing... Then an album out of nowhere and Axl is MIA... Then nothing... Then the greatest hits tour which keeps on rolling. Man, it's so interesting to me. He sort of asks for the crap he gets given the past twenty years and especially considering what came before it.

The guys life is just so fucking weird and his crazy actions turned from crazy good (and bad) to just crazy bad around 2007 so that's why he gets so much crap from his biggest supporters.

He gets crap cause people think they are entitled to thing in this country, including their music. If you dont goto a show, how the fuck can you spend half a thread ranting about it?

We've discussed this earlier, you don't have to go to the show to make a judgment on a performance. if the videos distorted beyond all means then making a judgment would be ridiculous but the videos are quite clear and we are entitled to discuss it if we want. You act like we're against him as a rule, we're very much for him, but we're even more for him making an effort. I expect when an artist hits the road that they bring their A game, if you have lower expectations for musicians that's up to you. The majority here believe highly paid musicians should perform at a high standard, If you take the money to tour you better get your shit together, because sane fans have ears and they will criticize and abandon you if you don't put the effort in.

[wasted]

No Dr Pepper for you.

[Tom2112]

No Dr Pepper for you.

More of a pepsi fan anyway

[downzy]

Why? Because it's deserved.

See the thread about short-changing fans who bought VIP packages. See the promises of new material, only for that NOT to happen. See Axl's response to GNR's induction to the R&R HOF. See the last four years of stale set lists. See the botched DVD release. See the $150 ticket prices at some of the small venue shows just so Axl doesn't have to cut his guarantee (or cut it by as much as he should).

I don't ever remember Axl promising anything live. And BTW, not going to the Hall of Fame is about as Rock and Roll as you can get. WTF is wrong with you? Were you at the Hall of Fame ceremony? Did you pay for it? Or any of these shows? Were you there? Have you ever been forced to pay for anything from GNR?

Entitlement society lives on! Dope.

If you don't want to pay, don't go, what the fuck is it to you. Some people pay 100k for a baseball card. It is what it it worth to you. I like how you think you should decide what a GNR show is worth to someone else. That is fucking hilarious. Do people call you at home and ask you what they should pay when looking for a car, or seeing a movie?

Please tell us more of what we think, thanks . .

Hey, wasn't just me who didn't think GNR was worth $150 in a major market like Toronto. The fact that GNR couldn't even sell out a 3k venue in the fourth largest city in North America kind of validates my point.

Axl's management told NGOG and the moderating community here at MyGNRforum that there would be new songs for this tour. Did Axl personally promise this? No. But the people he's paying to speak for him did, and as such, he should be bound by what his management is promising. It's basic PR 101.

Not going to the R&R HOF is rock n' roll if you're opposed to the institution as a whole (see Sex Pistols). But that's not Axl's reason for not going. If it were, why was he there to inaugurate Elton John?

Myself, along with many others, have defended Axl and GNR for over twenty years. And what have we got out of it? One album. Endless tours of the same tired hits. So yeah, I am entitled to a certain level of disappointment you fuck. Who are you to suggest otherwise. I'm entitled to be respected as a fan.

Edited March 27, 2014 by downzy

[Naupis]

Can someone please post the YCBM video from tonight?

That will tell anyone all they need to know about why the world is crapping on Axl these days.

He could come out at the next show and take a symbolic shit on the fan base and it still wouldn't approach the level of disrespect he is showing to paying customers by going out and "performing" like he has been of late.

[SlashisGOD]

Axl deserves all the criticism he gets. First, he takes the band name with promises of making all this great new, mythical music. Well that falls apart (or was never even the plan at all) and then he disappears. He comes back, tours, and then disappears again, and since 2009/10 he's just living off the past with no intention of moving forward. I'm sorry, but it's not this hard to release new music. All the blind followers who believe all the bullshit his management throws at you is pathetic. Axl's indecipherable chats were a joke. No one should believe all that shit, but of course the worshippers believe every little thing their god says. I firmly believe it would have been better had Slash and Duff got the name, brought Matt with them and brought back Izzy/continued with Gilby. Regretfully, that didn't happen though.

I feel that getting the name was only for vindication, a sort of "hey look I won" type thing. As an artist/musician, your fans have every right to get new music. The excuse that Axl doesn't owe us anything is so far away from the truth. We're the ones who made him filthy rich. We paid for his mansion. We paid for his nice cars. We afforded him this lifestyle, so the least he can do is give us new fucking music. If Axl is that sick in the head that he truly feels we don't deserve new music, well Slash surely isn't the cancer now is he?

Edited March 27, 2014 by SlashisGOD

[wasted]

Shit, I thought I had problems.

[Bono]

All I read was the title of the thread so I'm going off that and that alone. I'll tell you why. Because he's a douche he took the world's greatest rock band, and forced everyone who created it to leave because he had this glorious vision of what Guns shoud be and it was nothing of what they were. He then proceeded to do fuck all but one mediocre album over the last 20 years. Then he continues to parade around with new musicians who have nothing to do with GUNS N ROSES yet they call themselves Guns N' Roses and do nothing but leech off the classic band's material non stop. If anyone needs further explanation as to why people crap on Axl than I think you're a complete moron.

They have nothing better to do.

They say they are Axl and GNR fans, but all some of you do it bitch about everything and anything Axl does.

Don't you get tired of the same old shit?

That post right there is a classic case of beaten wife syndrom. Holy fuck man pull your head out of your god damn asshole

[magisme]

Yeah. I think I'll just avoid this thread from now on.

[wasted]

I don't buy it, for UYI they hardly saw Axl either but they did lots of tracks for Axl to basically sing over. Slash brought in his Snakepit material and Duff thought it needed work. Then Slash quit after refusing to work on Axl's Stephanie Seymour ballads.

There's two sides to every lie.

We have no way of knowing what really happened. Unless Marty starts drinking again we're never going to know.

[DieselDaisy]

I just come here to view the car crash. It is a bit like watching a soap: you know deep down that it is cack and a waste of time but you still sit down and watch it.

[AppetiteForGnR]

People are critical for the same reason they complain about their favorite sports team underperforming. Then want more and an improvement from something they love and care about.

Edited March 27, 2014 by AppetiteForGnR

[D-GenerationX]

People are critical for the same reason they complain about their favorite sports team underperforming. Then want more and an improvement from something they love and care about.

Why is this so hard for people to grasp?

[Amir]

People are critical for the same reason they complain about their favorite sports team underperforming. Then want more and an improvement from something they love and care about.

Why is this so hard for people to grasp?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_distortion_field

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_personality

[downzy]

People are critical for the same reason they complain about their favorite sports team underperforming. Then want more and an improvement from something they love and care about.

Why is this so hard for people to grasp?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_distortion_field

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_personality

I'd throw cognitive dissonance in there as well.

[Amir]

People are critical for the same reason they complain about their favorite sports team underperforming. Then want more and an improvement from something they love and care about.

Why is this so hard for people to grasp?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reality_distortion_field

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult_of_personality

I'd throw cognitive dissonance in there as well.

And let's not forget...

PARTY PASSES

[downzy]

LOL, yeah, maybe. But do you think Gunzen and Saber are actually being given them or are they only deluding themselves into thinking they've got backstage passes are heading their way?

"Just a couple more flattering posts and I'll get my invite to the next GNR circle jerk a la Eyes Wide Shut."

Edited March 27, 2014 by downzy

[Amir]

LOL, yeah, maybe. But do you think Gunzen is Saber are actually being given them or are they only deluding themselves into think they've got backstage passes heading their way?

"Just a couple more flattering posts and I'll get my invite to the next GNR circle jerk a la Eyes Wide Shut."

I don't think it's to that extent, I just think it's a case of people having faith and even if they don't think their faith will be rewarded the faith itself is the reward.

I mean, I got called an Axl obsessive by mates from 2008 on, and it's true, I love nearly everything Axl did until Rio '11. But it was mostly based on his voice and performance, which I loved (the myth of Chinese Democracy contributed greatly, though). But I remember being absolutely devastated when I woke up the day after the Rio show and came on here and saw the videos. I was even planning on flying out for that show since I'd never been to Rio, and the lineup included some of my favourite artists (Elton John, Metallica, Slipknot + Stone Sour, SOAD). Ended up going to Rio last September for Springsteen and Maiden instead, much better shows, flight was cheaper as well.

I have a friend who's a big Arsenal fan (not lenny ), but even he admits and gets depressed when his favourite team sucks (which they've been doing a lot lately), and points the finger at the players or manager responsible. With these Axlites, it's just scary, it really defines nununuGNR as a cult band in every sense of the word.

[downzy]

LOL, yeah, maybe. But do you think Gunzen is Saber are actually being given them or are they only deluding themselves into think they've got backstage passes heading their way?

"Just a couple more flattering posts and I'll get my invite to the next GNR circle jerk a la Eyes Wide Shut."

I don't think it's to that extent, I just think it's a case of people having faith and even if they don't think their faith will be rewarded the faith itself is the reward.

I mean, I got called an Axl obsessive by mates from 2008 on, and it's true, I love nearly everything Axl did until Rio '11. But it was mostly based on his voice and performance, which I loved (the myth of Chinese Democracy contributed greatly, though). But I remember being absolutely devastated when I woke up the day after the Rio show and came on here and saw the videos. I was even planning on flying out for that show since I'd never been to Rio, and the lineup included some of my favourite artists (Elton John, Metallica, Slipknot + Stone Sour, SOAD). Ended up going to Rio last September for Springsteen and Maiden instead, much better shows, flight was cheaper as well.

I have a friend who's a big Arsenal fan (not lenny ), but even he admits and gets depressed when his favourite team sucks (which they've been doing a lot lately), and points the finger at the players or manager responsible. With these Axlites, it's just scary, it really defines nununuGNR as a cult band in every sense of the word.

I definitely agree that GNR has become more of a cult than a band. If you look up characteristics of a cult, here's what you get:

• The group displays excessively zealous and unquestioning commitment to its leader and (whether he is alive or dead) regards his belief system, ideology, and practices as the Truth, as law.
• Questioning, doubt, and dissent are discouraged or even punished.
• The group has a polarized us-versus-them mentality, which may cause conflict with the wider society.
• The leader is not accountable to any authorities (unlike, for example, teachers, military commanders or ministers, priests, monks, and rabbis of mainstream religious denominations). (Swap out authorities for fans and this fits).
• The group is preoccupied with making money.
• The most loyal members (the “true believers”) feel there can be no life outside the context of the group. They believe there is no other way to be, and often fear reprisals to themselves or others if they leave (or even consider leaving) the group.

Sure, I'm cherry picking to a certain extent. There are other characteristics that don't apply, but the personality of cult members and Axl worshippers do map over one another quite well.

I remember a conversation I had in person with Jarmo and another HTGH admin at a GNR after-party that touched on this issue. They felt that since they are a fan of GNR, why would they ever want to say anything critical or negative? For them, fandom left no room for criticism. I was more interested in understanding their position that I didn't really challenge them on this, but it's a mindset that I suppose some people subscribe to. (Keep in mind, this conversation was happening no more than fifteen feet from Axl and other band members, all the while the three of us were drinking Grey Goose vodka present at the after party).

It's a similar ethos one sees a lot in religion. Why would they question their church when the church is supposedly perfect? There's no room for dissension or contrasting perspectives. But I didn't leave the Catholic church many years ago to sign up to the church of Guns N' Roses. But I get it, I just don't understand how people who are in it don't see it.

Edited March 27, 2014 by downzy

[Crash Diet]

From the USA Today interview:

Fans who discount GNR as less legitimate than the original: "They can think whatever they want. I'm not interested in their opinions." -Axl

Sometimes I just think certain people are slow learners, and it's laughable when they conveniently "forget" things that Axl has already addressed and then these people say dumb shit like "Axl's scared to answer this question!" When someone is on such an auto-pilot that they intentionally ignore well-known events (like the USA Today interview), it really illustrates their true intentions, which is just to talk mindlessly talk shit without really thinking.

I'm all for accountability, and Axl needs to be held accountable things, like the helium-sounding voice he uses sometimes, but when people grossly exaggerate his weight (while looking the other way at Slash's moobs when he goes shirtless), I think it demonstrates they're just trolling on auto-pilot.

I think you and a few other Axl defenders here are the real cupcakes. Only auto pilot cupcakes defend a Vegas act, like Axl's "GNR"

[Amir]

But I didn't leave the Catholic church many years ago to sign up to the church of Guns N' Roses. But I get it, I just don't understand how people who are in it don't see it.

Just one of those things you can't see until after the fact. I had a brief Muslim phase, probably just teen rebellion since my parents aren't particularly religious. Looking back, I have no clue how I couldn't see out of it. Probably something I believe now that I won't see is false until many years from now, if ever.

Some Mormons tried to convert me a few years ago. I remember I was talking to the wife of one of them (she was Mormon as well), and she told me she was Brazilian. I brought up GNR, and she laughed a bit, and said her sister was the President of the GNR Brazil Fan Club back in the day. I was pretty impressed that someone from such a religious country could be converted to a religion that is arguably as far removed from Christianity as Islam.

There is that kind of "indie cred" that comes with liking nuGNR more than oldGNR as they're not as popular or mainstream, and I do wonder sometimes how much that affects my love of ChiDem (it's not an easy pick over AFD for me, I love both albums). But the stuff you see at HTGTH goes beyond that hipster mentality into a cult-like one.

And the band fuels this with posts about "fighting the good fight" and keeping up this "us vs. them" mentality, so the cult thing isn't one-sided.

The smaller the fan base gets, the more zealous the remaining fans will get, to prove they are ultimate fans/devotees.

[saber_]

From the USA Today interview:

Fans who discount GNR as less legitimate than the original: "They can think whatever they want. I'm not interested in their opinions." -Axl

Sometimes I just think certain people are slow learners, and it's laughable when they conveniently "forget" things that Axl has already addressed and then these people say dumb shit like "Axl's scared to answer this question!" When someone is on such an auto-pilot that they intentionally ignore well-known events (like the USA Today interview), it really illustrates their true intentions, which is just to talk mindlessly talk shit without really thinking.

I'm all for accountability, and Axl needs to be held accountable things, like the helium-sounding voice he uses sometimes, but when people grossly exaggerate his weight (while looking the other way at Slash's moobs when he goes shirtless), I think it demonstrates they're just trolling on auto-pilot.

I think you and a few other Axl defenders here are the real cupcakes. Only auto pilot cupcakes defend a Vegas act, like Axl's "GNR"

They banned Volcano, nothing's ever good enough for you people, is it.

[magisme]

[Apollo]

Why? Because it's deserved.

See the thread about short-changing fans who bought VIP packages. See the promises of new material, only for that NOT to happen. See Axl's response to GNR's induction to the R&R HOF. See the last four years of stale set lists. See the botched DVD release. See the $150 ticket prices at some of the small venue shows just so Axl doesn't have to cut his guarantee (or cut it by as much as he should).

I don't ever remember Axl promising anything live. And BTW, not going to the Hall of Fame is about as Rock and Roll as you can get. WTF is wrong with you? Were you at the Hall of Fame ceremony? Did you pay for it? Or any of these shows? Were you there? Have you ever been forced to pay for anything from GNR?

Entitlement society lives on! Dope.

If you don't want to pay, don't go, what the fuck is it to you. Some people pay 100k for a baseball card. It is what it it worth to you. I like how you think you should decide what a GNR show is worth to someone else. That is fucking hilarious. Do people call you at home and ask you what they should pay when looking for a car, or seeing a movie?

Please tell us more of what we think, thanks . .

So glad we have Gunzen to pop in whenever a new tour starts to tell us why, what and how we can think!!!

LOL, of course this is the guy who continually posts that only morons judge shows that they weren't at, and that only morons judge shows from youtube clips........and then defends Axl's performance by saying that his wife walked by his computer and saw 30 seconds of a GnR youtube clip and she said Axl sounded awesome!!!!! His posting rules change depending on who is doing the posting.

So you have to take his anger and hostility with large grain of salt.