Anyone else cringe at the way rock press and guitar magazines suck up to Slash?

[DieselDaisy]

Listen, the biggest problem with the songwriting on those albums is the lyrics and that is Myles.

[jmapelian]

I agree with SM on this one. I'm not saying Slash should take 3 or 4 years to release an album, that would feel just unnatural. But yes, he should take some 3-6 extra months to polish some choruses, riffs, structures, etc. It wouldn't hurt, IMO.

And Axl should do the opposite, time didn't help CD. The more simple and straight-forward versions of 2001 are way better than the final versions.

Given Myles' time constraints of alterbridge; don't count on this happening. As much as I may agree, sometimes you just have to compromise.

[maynard]

I agree with SM on this one. I'm not saying Slash should take 3 or 4 years to release an album, that would feel just unnatural. But yes, he should take some 3-6 extra months to polish some choruses, riffs, structures, etc. It wouldn't hurt, IMO.

And Axl should do the opposite, time didn't help CD. The more simple and straight-forward versions of 2001 are way better than the final versions.

Given Myles' time constraints of alterbridge; don't count on this happening. As much as I may agree, sometimes you just have to compromise.

Absolutely. Regardless of Myles, it's simply not Slash's style and I don't see him changing.

[DieselDaisy]

You cannot straight jacket creativity. Slash's approach is to write the album, record it and move on. He does not like to over analyse things, sitting, procrastinating in a studio adding overdubs. To force the guy to adopt a methodology, ill-fitting his natural temperament, just might kill his creativity off. Is that not what Axl almost succeeded in doing, in those final sessions for Guns?

Now I agree, those albums have problems. Slash's main problem is, he lacks a powerful lyrical collaborator which he possessed in Izzy and Axl. This is the decision, with the band he has chosen. But I do not agree that sitting in a studio with these songs is inherently going to improve them. We have seen it with Axl and this approach just leads to masturbation and stagnation.

[Amir]

Listen, the biggest problem with the songwriting on those albums is the lyrics and that is Myles.

I think Myles could come up with better lyrics with more time, though. He had more time on World on Fire than Apocalyptic Love, and the lyrics on WoF are better than AL in my opinion (since the AL lyrics are completely forgettable). If Slash was his only project and he didn't have Alter Bridge, I'm sure the lyrics would be even better, and the songs as a whole as they'd have more time to collaborate.

[Nosaj Thing]

I agree, unfortunately, Myles sees Slash's band as a side project. He's still loyal to his band, Alter Bridge, and they get the best out of him.

[SoulMonster]

Your argument presupposes that the original genesis of a song can be improved over time. This is not always the case. Often, sitting fine-tuning the same idea(s) leads to poor decision making and eventual, creative stagnation - case in point, W. Axl Rose. You could also make a cinematic analogy here with George Lucas.

And everybody knows that a little critical sense can help to weed out weaker material and that in some cases things need to be worked with a little bit

You cannot straight jacket creativity. Slash's approach is to write the album, record it and move on. He does not like to over analyse things, sitting, procrastinating in a studio adding overdubs.

No one has said he should do that. It is like you are trying to paint a picture where you either have to work like Axl or work like Slash. That isn't the case. Slash could, like, release a record every three years by releasing the very best of what he writes in that period, rather than release the very best of what we writes in, what, 4 months? Or he could simply ask for input on songs he has written through the amazing process of group work to improve them or simply take some more time himself to think on how a song can become better. It has NOTHING to do with overdubs or procrastination.

[DieselDaisy]

Your argument presupposes that the original genesis of a song can be improved over time. This is not always the case. Often, sitting fine-tuning the same idea(s) leads to poor decision making and eventual, creative stagnation - case in point, W. Axl Rose. You could also make a cinematic analogy here with George Lucas.

And everybody knows that a little critical sense can help to weed out weaker material and that in some cases things need to be worked with a little bit

You cannot straight jacket creativity. Slash's approach is to write the album, record it and move on. He does not like to over analyse things, sitting, procrastinating in a studio adding overdubs.

No one has said he should do that. It is like you are trying to paint a picture where you either have to work like Axl or work like Slash. That isn't the case. Slash could, like, release a record every three years by releasing the very best of what he writes in that period, rather than release the very best of what we writes in, what, 4 months? Or he could simply ask for input on songs he has written through the amazing process of group work to improve them or simply take some more time himself to think on how a song can become better. It has NOTHING to do with overdubs or procrastination.

Worked with, how? You are never going to get, Izzy calibre lyrics, with Myles Kennedy. Myles - with the greatest respect - could spend ten years attempting and still not succeed.

[SoulMonster]

Your argument presupposes that the original genesis of a song can be improved over time. This is not always the case. Often, sitting fine-tuning the same idea(s) leads to poor decision making and eventual, creative stagnation - case in point, W. Axl Rose. You could also make a cinematic analogy here with George Lucas.

And everybody knows that a little critical sense can help to weed out weaker material and that in some cases things need to be worked with a little bit

You cannot straight jacket creativity. Slash's approach is to write the album, record it and move on. He does not like to over analyse things, sitting, procrastinating in a studio adding overdubs.

No one has said he should do that. It is like you are trying to paint a picture where you either have to work like Axl or work like Slash. That isn't the case. Slash could, like, release a record every three years by releasing the very best of what he writes in that period, rather than release the very best of what we writes in, what, 4 months? Or he could simply ask for input on songs he has written through the amazing process of group work to improve them or simply take some more time himself to think on how a song can become better. It has NOTHING to do with overdubs or procrastination.

Worked with, how? You are never going to get, Izzy calibre lyrics, with Myles Kennedy. Myles - with the greatest respect - could spend ten years attempting and still not succeed.

Why have you come to the conclusion that I am talking about the the vocal melodies or the vocals themselves? It is YOU who have been trying to steer the discussion into criticism of Myles, not anyone else. I am talking about the overall song structures, chord progressions in verses and choruses, guitar hooks, and overall riffs. Basically, whatever Slash brings to the songs. Not Myles. Not Myles.

[DieselDaisy]

Your argument presupposes that the original genesis of a song can be improved over time. This is not always the case. Often, sitting fine-tuning the same idea(s) leads to poor decision making and eventual, creative stagnation - case in point, W. Axl Rose. You could also make a cinematic analogy here with George Lucas.

And everybody knows that a little critical sense can help to weed out weaker material and that in some cases things need to be worked with a little bit

You cannot straight jacket creativity. Slash's approach is to write the album, record it and move on. He does not like to over analyse things, sitting, procrastinating in a studio adding overdubs.

No one has said he should do that. It is like you are trying to paint a picture where you either have to work like Axl or work like Slash. That isn't the case. Slash could, like, release a record every three years by releasing the very best of what he writes in that period, rather than release the very best of what we writes in, what, 4 months? Or he could simply ask for input on songs he has written through the amazing process of group work to improve them or simply take some more time himself to think on how a song can become better. It has NOTHING to do with overdubs or procrastination.

Worked with, how? You are never going to get, Izzy calibre lyrics, with Myles Kennedy. Myles - with the greatest respect - could spend ten years attempting and still not succeed.

Why have you come to the conclusion that I am talking about the the vocal melodies or the vocals themselves? It is YOU who have been trying to steer the discussion into criticism of Myles, not anyone else. I am talking about the overall song structures, chord progressions in verses and choruses, guitar hooks, and overall riffs. Basically, whatever Slash brings to the songs. Not Myles. Not Myles.

There is nothing wrong with the song structures, chord progressions and riffs - not a single thing wrong with them.

[SoulMonster]

Your argument presupposes that the original genesis of a song can be improved over time. This is not always the case. Often, sitting fine-tuning the same idea(s) leads to poor decision making and eventual, creative stagnation - case in point, W. Axl Rose. You could also make a cinematic analogy here with George Lucas.

And everybody knows that a little critical sense can help to weed out weaker material and that in some cases things need to be worked with a little bit

You cannot straight jacket creativity. Slash's approach is to write the album, record it and move on. He does not like to over analyse things, sitting, procrastinating in a studio adding overdubs.

No one has said he should do that. It is like you are trying to paint a picture where you either have to work like Axl or work like Slash. That isn't the case. Slash could, like, release a record every three years by releasing the very best of what he writes in that period, rather than release the very best of what we writes in, what, 4 months? Or he could simply ask for input on songs he has written through the amazing process of group work to improve them or simply take some more time himself to think on how a song can become better. It has NOTHING to do with overdubs or procrastination.

Worked with, how? You are never going to get, Izzy calibre lyrics, with Myles Kennedy. Myles - with the greatest respect - could spend ten years attempting and still not succeed.

Why have you come to the conclusion that I am talking about the the vocal melodies or the vocals themselves? It is YOU who have been trying to steer the discussion into criticism of Myles, not anyone else. I am talking about the overall song structures, chord progressions in verses and choruses, guitar hooks, and overall riffs. Basically, whatever Slash brings to the songs. Not Myles. Not Myles.

There is nothing wrong with the song structures, chord progressions and riffs - not a single thing wrong with them.

I am very happy you enjoy them.

[ManetsBR]

SoulMonster is right. If Slash had released one album in the past four years instead of three, it would be a top notch Contraband-level album.

Contraband was fantastic because it had the best of the remaining Guns N' Roses songs. Really old concepts that they picked up and worked on again. Libertad, on the other hand, was brand new stuff, that took less effort, and thus was extremely inferior to their first album.

[DieselDaisy]

I do not agree. I would rather have three albums than one. That is, 'Axl Rose' logic you are describing. Where do you draw the line? If the Beatles had released one album every four years, we may have been spared the Ringo filler but we would be a lot less, entertained. Also, Contraband was a sack of shit, that contained Slash's worst playing of his entire career. It is even worse than Chinese Democracy.

[ManetsBR]

Who the hell is talking about "Axl Rose" in here, man? Axl released on album in 20 years. He is insane. He is not right, either. He should have released one in 2002, one in 2006 and the last one on 2010. One every four years is perfect. But no, instead we got one album of leaked material and from the other guy got a pile of shit from among enough songs to make an EXCELLENT one album. And also, do you wanna compare Slash to the fucking Beatles, really? It was another time man, if you knew your shit you'd know The Beatles and pretty much every artst back there lived more from singles and separate tracks release than from proper albums.

Edited December 23, 2014 by ManetsBR

[SoulMonster]

I do not agree. I would rather have three albums than one. That is, 'Axl Rose' logic you are describing. Where do you draw the line? If the Beatles had released one album every four years, we may have been spared the Ringo filler but we would be a lot less, entertained. Also, Contraband was a sack of shit, that contained Slash's worst playing of his entire career. It is even worse than Chinese Democracy.

This has nothing to do with Axl. I think we all dislike his way of releasing music. This has nothing to do with "wanting three record more than one", but with wanting records that aren't full of fillers and shit songs.

Don't compare Beatles to Slash There was very little wrong with the quality of Beatles'output. They SUCCEEDED at frequent releases filled with outstanding music. Slash simply doesn't....in my opnion, apparently you like it. More power to you.

[tomfriend]

Listen, the biggest problem with the songwriting on those albums is the lyrics and that is Myles.

Exactly. Slash's talents deserve better collaborators than he currently has. The problem is he seems content with it.

[jamesrandolph]

I agree with most of what the original poster is saying. I studied music at the college level, and I remember my guitar instructor commenting how Slash was the most famous top-hat in the industry.

As far as musical knowledge and musicianship goes, my teacher, and many others, can play circles around Slash. He has a marketable image to rock fans.

Congrats to all those nobodies. I look forward to their new albums and seeing them on tour...oh wait. The notion that Slash is just marketable and that's what he owes his success to is fucking asinine.

Sounds like the 40 year old dude who is still claiming be was the best basketball player in high school.....but he didn't make the team because the coach didn't like him and picked his (the coaches) best friends son instead.

All this crazy crap to praise Axl and bash Slash is embarrassing to me as a die-hard Axl Rose fan.

These comments are made by musicians who grew up recording albums and gigging to support themselves and their families. These are the people making these comments. These guys didn't really care one way or the other about Axl or Slash. They are professional musicians, teachers, artists, who supported themselves and their families gigging and recording and teaching. I think they have a little bit of knowledge on the subject.

[jmapelian]

Your argument presupposes that the original genesis of a song can be improved over time. This is not always the case. Often, sitting fine-tuning the same idea(s) leads to poor decision making and eventual, creative stagnation - case in point, W. Axl Rose. You could also make a cinematic analogy here with George Lucas.

And everybody knows that a little critical sense can help to weed out weaker material and that in some cases things need to be worked with a little bit

You cannot straight jacket creativity. Slash's approach is to write the album, record it and move on. He does not like to over analyse things, sitting, procrastinating in a studio adding overdubs.

No one has said he should do that. It is like you are trying to paint a picture where you either have to work like Axl or work like Slash. That isn't the case. Slash could, like, release a record every three years by releasing the very best of what he writes in that period, rather than release the very best of what we writes in, what, 4 months? Or he could simply ask for input on songs he has written through the amazing process of group work to improve them or simply take some more time himself to think on how a song can become better. It has NOTHING to do with overdubs or procrastination.

Worked with, how? You are never going to get, Izzy calibre lyrics, with Myles Kennedy. Myles - with the greatest respect - could spend ten years attempting and still not succeed.

Sorry, but Blackbird is better than anything Izzy's ever done solo.

[jmapelian]

I agree with most of what the original poster is saying. I studied music at the college level, and I remember my guitar instructor commenting how Slash was the most famous top-hat in the industry.

As far as musical knowledge and musicianship goes, my teacher, and many others, can play circles around Slash. He has a marketable image to rock fans.

Congrats to all those nobodies. I look forward to their new albums and seeing them on tour...oh wait. The notion that Slash is just marketable and that's what he owes his success to is fucking asinine.

Sounds like the 40 year old dude who is still claiming be was the best basketball player in high school.....but he didn't make the team because the coach didn't like him and picked his (the coaches) best friends son instead.

All this crazy crap to praise Axl and bash Slash is embarrassing to me as a die-hard Axl Rose fan.

These comments are made by musicians who grew up recording albums and gigging to support themselves and their families. These are the people making these comments. These guys didn't really care one way or the other about Axl or Slash. They are professional musicians, teachers, artists, who supported themselves and their families gigging and recording and teaching. I think they have a little bit of knowledge on the subject.

So did slash. And my guess is slash did a better job supporting his family and gigging and recording.

[Free Bird]

SoulMonster is right. If Slash had released one album in the past four years instead of three, it would be a top notch Contraband-level album.

So why don't you choose your favorites and do your "own" Slash album?

There are to many different opinions of which songs should be used for only one album instead of three.

[DieselDaisy]

Who the hell is talking about "Axl Rose" in here, man? Axl released on album in 20 years. He is insane. He is not right, either. He should have released one in 2002, one in 2006 and the last one on 2010. One every four years is perfect. But no, instead we got one album of leaked material and from the other guy got a pile of shit from among enough songs to make an EXCELLENT one album. And also, do you wanna compare Slash to the fucking Beatles, really? It was another time man, if you knew your shit you'd know The Beatles and pretty much every artst back there lived more from singles and separate tracks release than from proper albums.

Absolute garbage. The Beatles pioneered the concept of an 'album'. Albums such as Revolver, Sgt Pepper, White Album and Abbey Rd are bona fide albums and were released at yearly intervals.

[DieselDaisy]

What Soul is discussing here is based entirely on a subjective appraisal of Slash's discography. You have seen threads on this very forum about his solo career and nobody seems to agree on what constitutes a good Slash album let alone, individual songs; one person prefers Snakepit; one person prefers the solo album; others, the conspirators; Contraband is popular here yet I prefer Libertad over Contraband for instance. So if, hypothetically, we have problems agreeing on an entire album, it is a good bet that Slash has problems omitting material from his final tracklists.

In truth, the album is the best Slash can potentially make it (for him) at that particular date. I remember Ozzy summarising the situation, saying, ''you do not consciously set out to make bad albums''.

Most people seem to agree here that Slash has lacked a brilliant collaborator, a wordsmith, since Rose/Stradlin. And most people seem to agree that Slash still writes good parts. So would not that argument render the fact he is too hasty releasing material, rather moot. Appetite was written and recorded really fast, after all, and then, Slash certainly had good collaborators.

[star]

I never liked VR because of Scott's voice. It has hard to like Slash's work on either of VR's 2 albums with Scott's voice in the way.

Myles and the guy from the 1st Snake Pit album have been the best vocalist since Slash parted ways with Axl. In many ways, I think Myles sounds better than Axl.

Edited December 23, 2014 by star

[jamesrandolph]

I agree with most of what the original poster is saying. I studied music at the college level, and I remember my guitar instructor commenting how Slash was the most famous top-hat in the industry.

As far as musical knowledge and musicianship goes, my teacher, and many others, can play circles around Slash. He has a marketable image to rock fans.

Congrats to all those nobodies. I look forward to their new albums and seeing them on tour...oh wait. The notion that Slash is just marketable and that's what he owes his success to is fucking asinine.

Sounds like the 40 year old dude who is still claiming be was the best basketball player in high school.....but he didn't make the team because the coach didn't like him and picked his (the coaches) best friends son instead.

All this crazy crap to praise Axl and bash Slash is embarrassing to me as a die-hard Axl Rose fan.

These comments are made by musicians who grew up recording albums and gigging to support themselves and their families. These are the people making these comments. These guys didn't really care one way or the other about Axl or Slash. They are professional musicians, teachers, artists, who supported themselves and their families gigging and recording and teaching. I think they have a little bit of knowledge on the subject.

So did slash. And my guess is slash did a better job supporting his family and gigging and recording.

Miley Cyrus probably makes a lot of money as well, and she is also a great musician.

[wasted]

Slash does it the rock n roll way like Aerosmith or ACDC. WoF has the gloss of modern day production and he's been good at that. Staying current without really changing too much.

To me it makes sense that his solo stuff is more Guitar oriented. I prefer the VR stuff, more elements, more vibe.