Confederate flag? Yes or no?

[Len Cnut]

There you go, illustrated my point admirably I cant watch the news, im too much of a bitch, it makes me feel awful, all like fuckin' kids arms and legs sticking out of rubble and people dying and getting shit chopped off, I've probably found out more about current affairs from threads on here than any news media for at least the last 5 or 6 years.

A few years ago I was at the doctor and we were trying to figure out how to reduce stress because it was starting to take its toll on me. He said he had seen improvement when people stopped watching/reading yhe news. So That was one thing I did and it made a real difference so I never do the news anymore. You still get the news you need somehow and most of it is just negative noise you didn't need to know anyway.

The way i look at it now is, look, motherfuckers have been killing each other since before i was born and they'll be doing it long after I'm dead, the names of the people and the nations are just all interchangeable, today it's him killing that one over there instead of the other one before. Sounds awfully callous of me in a way but it's not like as if through my attention or my standing up and going 'y'know, all that killing and that, could you not just knock it on the head please? Oh go on, I'll be your best mate!' is gonna make a lick of difference anyway soooo

[netcat]

i live way too close to Mordor, i don't think i can afford to not follow the news

[Len Cnut]

i live way too close to Mordor, i don't think i can afford to not follow the news

Whatcha mean? Is it really fucked up where you're at?

[magisme]

Honestly, i wouldnt know that had anything to do with ISIS if you told me

Is that the line you're practicing for the authorities?

i live way too close to Mordor, i don't think i can afford to not follow the news

Be safe. Much love. For real.

[Len Cnut]

Honestly, i wouldnt know that had anything to do with ISIS if you told me

Is that the line you're practicing for the authorities?

i live way too close to Mordor, i don't think i can afford to not follow the news

Be safe. Much love. For real.

I would if i thought any line worked with your lot

[netcat]

i live way too close to Mordor, i don't think i can afford to not follow the news

Whatcha mean? Is it really fucked up where you're at?

it's fine where im at, but nearest Russian border is just 200 km away and however it seems quite unlikely now, Putin can come over to save Ukraine from Ukrainians practically anytime

Be safe. Much love. For real.

Thanks Mags

[JONEZY]

Any liberal evr thought of the fact that we have 10 US military bases around the country named after Confederate battle officers.

Fort Bragg, Fort Lee, Fort Hood, Fort Pickett, Fort Benning, etc.? Wheres the revolution to have them all renamed?

You'd think if liberals really cared of what they preached there would be some sort of movement, or at least a mention.

why, because they don't really care that's why. just more ridiculousness.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/randy-hall/2015/06/26/al-sharpton-demands-military-remove-all-remnants-confederacy

In addition to calling for General Lee Avenue to be renamed, Foy said the NAN is pushing for the military to change the names of the 10 bases that honor Confederate figures. "Military bases are on federally owned land that is outside of local jurisdiction.”

Foy added:

We will be presenting an official letter to the commander of this base and then sending it up the chain, asking that they remove all the remnants of the Confederacy.

Taxpayer dollars are supporting a U.S. military that honors the Confederacy.

you are quoting Al Sharpton? really?

Is this akin to when Jesse Jackson extorted Quaker Oats to change Aunt Jemima's image on the pancake box?

You see where this is all going, So after we rename the 10 Military bases , remove the battle flag from all public display, whats next? No Dukes of Hazzard reruns? Jessica Simpson starred in the latest Duke Movie with the General Lee in full view, ban her concerts until she apologizes and denounces?

moving forward

So when Southerners find trinkets in stores with redneck overtones associated with being from the south, do we protest until the stores are in compliance?

we still have the redskins issue to address.

Shades called it. TV Land is pulling "The Dukes of Hazzard" reruns. Which is of course, just plain stupid.

[Iron MikeyJ]

I am by no means a supporter of the confederate flag or anything it stands for, but taking The Dukes of Hazzard off of tv because of the flag on top of the General Lee is crossing a line. I'm getting really sick of this politically correct, sand in vagina, everything is grey, and everyone is a fucking pussy that this world is turning into.

Watching that tv show did not make you a racist. It was a product of the time. I get that times change, but you can't erase the past. I grew up watching that show, I loved it as a kid. As many others did as well. I liked the joke they made about it in the movie, I thought that was appropriate. But pulling it from the air? If you want state buildings and what not to take the flag down, I have no problem with that. But attacking a tv show that is over 30 years old? Worse Shit is said and done on south park every night, but nobody has a problem with that.

They were just some good ole' boys, never meanin' no harm. Leave the Dukes alone...

Edited July 2, 2015 by Iron MikeyJ

[ZoSoRose]

Ok now that is insane

Reruns will be back when this blows over

[downzy]

Any liberal evr thought of the fact that we have 10 US military bases around the country named after Confederate battle officers.

Fort Bragg, Fort Lee, Fort Hood, Fort Pickett, Fort Benning, etc.? Wheres the revolution to have them all renamed?

You'd think if liberals really cared of what they preached there would be some sort of movement, or at least a mention.

why, because they don't really care that's why. just more ridiculousness.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/randy-hall/2015/06/26/al-sharpton-demands-military-remove-all-remnants-confederacy

In addition to calling for General Lee Avenue to be renamed, Foy said the NAN is pushing for the military to change the names of the 10 bases that honor Confederate figures. "Military bases are on federally owned land that is outside of local jurisdiction.”

Foy added:

We will be presenting an official letter to the commander of this base and then sending it up the chain, asking that they remove all the remnants of the Confederacy.

Taxpayer dollars are supporting a U.S. military that honors the Confederacy.

you are quoting Al Sharpton? really?

Is this akin to when Jesse Jackson extorted Quaker Oats to change Aunt Jemima's image on the pancake box?

You see where this is all going, So after we rename the 10 Military bases , remove the battle flag from all public display, whats next? No Dukes of Hazzard reruns? Jessica Simpson starred in the latest Duke Movie with the General Lee in full view, ban her concerts until she apologizes and denounces?

moving forward

So when Southerners find trinkets in stores with redneck overtones associated with being from the south, do we protest until the stores are in compliance?

we still have the redskins issue to address.

Shades called it. TV Land is pulling "The Dukes of Hazzard" reruns. Which is of course, just plain stupid.

But this isn't the result of protests or demands for the removal of all instances of the Confederate Flag. As far as I'm aware of, nobody was demanding that TV Land remove the Dukes of Hazzard.

Is it an overreaction by TV Land? Certainly.

But do we then dial down the shame and contempt for those who celebrate the flag (particularly on public grounds)? Not at all.

[Len Cnut]

Any liberal evr thought of the fact that we have 10 US military bases around the country named after Confederate battle officers.

Fort Bragg, Fort Lee, Fort Hood, Fort Pickett, Fort Benning, etc.? Wheres the revolution to have them all renamed?

You'd think if liberals really cared of what they preached there would be some sort of movement, or at least a mention.

why, because they don't really care that's why. just more ridiculousness.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/randy-hall/2015/06/26/al-sharpton-demands-military-remove-all-remnants-confederacy

In addition to calling for General Lee Avenue to be renamed, Foy said the NAN is pushing for the military to change the names of the 10 bases that honor Confederate figures. "Military bases are on federally owned land that is outside of local jurisdiction.

Foy added:

We will be presenting an official letter to the commander of this base and then sending it up the chain, asking that they remove all the remnants of the Confederacy.

Taxpayer dollars are supporting a U.S. military that honors the Confederacy.

you are quoting Al Sharpton? really?

Is this akin to when Jesse Jackson extorted Quaker Oats to change Aunt Jemima's image on the pancake box?

You see where this is all going, So after we rename the 10 Military bases , remove the battle flag from all public display, whats next? No Dukes of Hazzard reruns? Jessica Simpson starred in the latest Duke Movie with the General Lee in full view, ban her concerts until she apologizes and denounces?

moving forward

So when Southerners find trinkets in stores with redneck overtones associated with being from the south, do we protest until the stores are in compliance?

we still have the redskins issue to address.

Shades called it. TV Land is pulling "The Dukes of Hazzard" reruns. Which is of course, just plain stupid.

But this isn't the result of protests or demands for the removal of all instances of the Confederate Flag. As far as I'm aware of, nobody was demanding that TV Land remove the Dukes of Hazzard.

Is it an overreaction by TV Land? Certainly.

But do we then dial down the shame and contempt for those who celebrate the flag (particularly on public grounds)? Not at all.

Its a reasonable indicator of the direction that such silliness takes you in I'd say.

[Iron MikeyJ]

We are such a society of knew jerk reactions....

Nobody had a problem with the show 3 months ago, but now it's pulled from the air? Which again it's a show that went off the air more than 30 years ago.

Honestly I have more of a problem with Axl wearing the rebel flag outfit that he wore during Civil War back in the 90s.

But beyond all of that, people forget that the Confederate Flag and the whole southern side during the civil war had a lot more to do with it than just slavery. That's the modern misconception. Slavery was part of it, yes. But to many confederate States it wasn't the biggest part, or even a big part at all. That's what separates this issue from the swastika imo. Nazi Germany were all United in their hatred of Jews. The Confederacy had a lot of factors outside of just slavery. I took a couple of history classes in college that really opened my eyes to this fact. I can't remember all of the details off the top of my head (been a few years, lol). But I want to say crops, northern politics, and many other issues played a major role. We forget now, but southern crops like tobacco and cotton really kept the country a float during that time. So it was the South making the North it's money. Many southern states were ok with abolishing slavery, but they wanted a larger kick back (if I remember correctly) in tax breaks to pay for their new employees. It was the North that said no, abolish slavery and keep taxes how they are. So when you look at it from that perspective, what would you do? Its your crops keeping the country afloat, why should you be penalized? Yes slavery was wrong, I'm not saying it's not, but like everything else MONEY was the biggest reason we went to war, it was not slavery. That is the ruse that high school history teachers tell the ignorant masses. Once you go to college and can get outside of the things "they want you to think", you can see the world for what it truly is.

On a side note, most Americans don't realize how we got sumoa and Hawaii. During this same time period America became an empire just as evil and corrupt as those before us. Lets just say Hawaii and Somoa didn't have a whole lot of choice in joining the US originally. They were strategic islands that we took by force. Another fact that your high school history teachers tend to ignore...

Edited July 2, 2015 by Iron MikeyJ

[DieselDaisy]

We are such a society of knew jerk reactions....

Nobody had a problem with the show 3 months ago, but now it's pulled from the air? Which again it's a show that went off the air more than 30 years ago.

Honestly I have more of a problem with Axl wearing the rebel flag outfit that he wore during Civil War back in the 90s.

But beyond all of that, people forget that the Confederate Flag and the whole southern side during the civil war had a lot more to do with it than just slavery. That's the modern misconception. Slavery was part of it, yes. But to many confederate States it wasn't the biggest part, or even a big part at all. That's what separates this issue from the swastika imo. Nazi Germany were all United in their hatred of Jews. The Confederacy had a lot of factors outside of just slavery. I took a couple of history classes in college that really opened my eyes to this fact. I can't remember all of the details off the top of my head (been a few years, lol). But I want to say crops, northern politics, and many other issues played a major role. We forget now, but southern crops like tobacco and cotton really kept the country a float during that time. So it was the South making the North it's money. Many southern states were ok with abolishing slavery, but they wanted a larger kick back (if I remember correctly) in tax breaks to pay for their new employees. It was the North that said no, abolish slavery and keep taxes how they are. So when you look at it from that perspective, what would you do? Its your crops keeping the country afloat, why should you be penalized? Yes slavery was wrong, I'm not saying it's not, but like everything else MONEY was the biggest reason we went to war, it was not slavery. That is the ruse that high school history teachers tell the ignorant masses. Once you go to college and can get outside of the things "they want you to think", you can see the world for what it truly is.

On a side note, most Americans don't realize how we got sumoa and Hawaii. During this same time period America became an empire just as evil and corrupt as those before us. Lets just say Hawaii and Somoa didn't have a whole lot of choice in joining the US originally. They were strategic islands that we took by force. Another fact that your high school history teachers tend to ignore...

I agree that it is a little more complex than mere slavery as it concerned the introduction of new states that had been introduced to the republic during western expansion. It did not even matter if those states possessed significant slave populations so much as they were going to be introduced as 'free states' or 'slave states' which would award control of the Senate into Yankee or Southern hands. The problem is that nothing defined southern exceptionalism more than slavery. Southerners extolled the moral virtues of their rural gentlemanly lifestyle yet it was slaves and cotton which economically sustained that very lifestyle. Conversely, the presence of factories in the north was connected with the presence of a free unskilled wage labour population. Obviously this did not exist in the south which still remained predominately agricultural.

[downzy]

We are such a society of knew jerk reactions....

Nobody had a problem with the show 3 months ago, but now it's pulled from the air? Which again it's a show that went off the air more than 30 years ago.

Honestly I have more of a problem with Axl wearing the rebel flag outfit that he wore during Civil War back in the 90s.

But beyond all of that, people forget that the Confederate Flag and the whole southern side during the civil war had a lot more to do with it than just slavery. That's the modern misconception. Slavery was part of it, yes. But to many confederate States it wasn't the biggest part, or even a big part at all. That's what separates this issue from the swastika imo. Nazi Germany were all United in their hatred of Jews. The Confederacy had a lot of factors outside of just slavery. I took a couple of history classes in college that really opened my eyes to this fact. I can't remember all of the details off the top of my head (been a few years, lol). But I want to say crops, northern politics, and many other issues played a major role. We forget now, but southern crops like tobacco and cotton really kept the country a float during that time. So it was the South making the North it's money. Many southern states were ok with abolishing slavery, but they wanted a larger kick back (if I remember correctly) in tax breaks to pay for their new employees. It was the North that said no, abolish slavery and keep taxes how they are. So when you look at it from that perspective, what would you do? Its your crops keeping the country afloat, why should you be penalized? Yes slavery was wrong, I'm not saying it's not, but like everything else MONEY was the biggest reason we went to war, it was not slavery. That is the ruse that high school history teachers tell the ignorant masses. Once you go to college and can get outside of the things "they want you to think", you can see the world for what it truly is.

On a side note, most Americans don't realize how we got sumoa and Hawaii. During this same time period America became an empire just as evil and corrupt as those before us. Lets just say Hawaii and Somoa didn't have a whole lot of choice in joining the US originally. They were strategic islands that we took by force. Another fact that your high school history teachers tend to ignore...

Except, as it has already been noted several times in this thread, that slavery was the paramount issue noted in the Southern States statements regarding succeeding from the union. Sure, there were other reasons, but the election of Abraham Lincoln under the Republican ticket, a party based on the principle of ending slavery, was the event that caused the Southern states to act. To suggest that slavery was not the central issue, and in your case, did not even play a large role, is revisionism at its worse. Can I ask what college you attended?

Not sure how imperial aggression that resulted in the territories of Hawaii and Samoa (and others) have anything to do with the topic.

Any liberal evr thought of the fact that we have 10 US military bases around the country named after Confederate battle officers.

Fort Bragg, Fort Lee, Fort Hood, Fort Pickett, Fort Benning, etc.? Wheres the revolution to have them all renamed?

You'd think if liberals really cared of what they preached there would be some sort of movement, or at least a mention.

why, because they don't really care that's why. just more ridiculousness.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/randy-hall/2015/06/26/al-sharpton-demands-military-remove-all-remnants-confederacy

In addition to calling for General Lee Avenue to be renamed, Foy said the NAN is pushing for the military to change the names of the 10 bases that honor Confederate figures. "Military bases are on federally owned land that is outside of local jurisdiction.

Foy added:

We will be presenting an official letter to the commander of this base and then sending it up the chain, asking that they remove all the remnants of the Confederacy.

Taxpayer dollars are supporting a U.S. military that honors the Confederacy.

you are quoting Al Sharpton? really?

Is this akin to when Jesse Jackson extorted Quaker Oats to change Aunt Jemima's image on the pancake box?

You see where this is all going, So after we rename the 10 Military bases , remove the battle flag from all public display, whats next? No Dukes of Hazzard reruns? Jessica Simpson starred in the latest Duke Movie with the General Lee in full view, ban her concerts until she apologizes and denounces?

moving forward

So when Southerners find trinkets in stores with redneck overtones associated with being from the south, do we protest until the stores are in compliance?

we still have the redskins issue to address.

Shades called it. TV Land is pulling "The Dukes of Hazzard" reruns. Which is of course, just plain stupid.

But this isn't the result of protests or demands for the removal of all instances of the Confederate Flag. As far as I'm aware of, nobody was demanding that TV Land remove the Dukes of Hazzard.

Is it an overreaction by TV Land? Certainly.

But do we then dial down the shame and contempt for those who celebrate the flag (particularly on public grounds)? Not at all.

Its a reasonable indicator of the direction that such silliness takes you in I'd say.

Nonsense. Arguing that the Confederate flag should not be flown on public grounds and state capitals does not naturally extend to calling for a boycott of silly 80s television shows. No one called for Dukes of Hazzard to be pulled; it was simply an overreaction by a third-rate television network.

[magisme]

A Dukes of Hazard car is the first Christmas gift I can remember receiving. I can't believe my parents were such racists. Fuck them for making me love oppressing the darkies so much.

[DieselDaisy]

There is a lack of logic about flying it from state buildings if that state truly wishes to still remain a part of the United States. The logical thought process when looking at a Confederate flag from a state building is, that that is a state which wishes to secede from the United States and reform (with other seceding states) a southern anchored Confederate Sates of America on lines approximating those of the 1860s. This is because it is flying a flag of a breakaway dissident republic formed in direct opposition to their current federal legislator, the United States! When Northern Irishman unfurl the tricolor in parades it is because they are republican Northern Irish and therefore wish to (re)integrate with the Republic of Ireland and/or advocate polices against the United Kingdom. They do not unfurl the tricolor while singing Land of Hope and Glory, do they?

[luciusfunk]

I agree the flag shouldn't fly over any state capitols, but I think to outright ban it (and Dukes of Hazzard) is downright ridiculous.

[DieselDaisy]

It shouldn't be a case of banning it from state capitals. The capitals should not desire to fly it in the first place assuming they still want to belong to the United States of America.

[Iron MikeyJ]

@downzy, I never said slavery wasn't a major issue during that time, clearly it was. I was only saying that their were other issues beyond mere slavery that played a role. The confederate flag was a symbol of the entire southern cause. Was slavery a part of that? Yes. But so we're many other factors. I was just making the point that that flag is associated with slavery to a degree yes, but to say it is symbol of racism or slavery is not correct. It was a flag of the southern states that left the union. They had to have a flag and chose that one. That flag has more meaning to many people than just the one that is being expressed here, that is my point.

If you want to know what a real symbol for racism would be, it would be an image of the KKK. Which coincidentally was started in Indiana, a northern state...

[arnold layne]

Kuddly Kitten Klub

[Forsaken]

We are such a society of knew jerk reactions....

Nobody had a problem with the show 3 months ago, but now it's pulled from the air? Which again it's a show that went off the air more than 30 years ago.

Honestly I have more of a problem with Axl wearing the rebel flag outfit that he wore during Civil War back in the 90s.

But beyond all of that, people forget that the Confederate Flag and the whole southern side during the civil war had a lot more to do with it than just slavery. That's the modern misconception. Slavery was part of it, yes. But to many confederate States it wasn't the biggest part, or even a big part at all. That's what separates this issue from the swastika imo. Nazi Germany were all United in their hatred of Jews. The Confederacy had a lot of factors outside of just slavery. I took a couple of history classes in college that really opened my eyes to this fact. I can't remember all of the details off the top of my head (been a few years, lol). But I want to say crops, northern politics, and many other issues played a major role. We forget now, but southern crops like tobacco and cotton really kept the country a float during that time. So it was the South making the North it's money. Many southern states were ok with abolishing slavery, but they wanted a larger kick back (if I remember correctly) in tax breaks to pay for their new employees. It was the North that said no, abolish slavery and keep taxes how they are. So when you look at it from that perspective, what would you do? Its your crops keeping the country afloat, why should you be penalized? Yes slavery was wrong, I'm not saying it's not, but like everything else MONEY was the biggest reason we went to war, it was not slavery. That is the ruse that high school history teachers tell the ignorant masses. Once you go to college and can get outside of the things "they want you to think", you can see the world for what it truly is.

On a side note, most Americans don't realize how we got sumoa and Hawaii. During this same time period America became an empire just as evil and corrupt as those before us. Lets just say Hawaii and Somoa didn't have a whole lot of choice in joining the US originally. They were strategic islands that we took by force. Another fact that your high school history teachers tend to ignore...

Thank you so much for this post!!!!

[downzy]

@downzy, I never said slavery wasn't a major issue during that time, clearly it was. I was only saying that their were other issues beyond mere slavery that played a role. The confederate flag was a symbol of the entire southern cause. Was slavery a part of that? Yes. But so we're many other factors. I was just making the point that that flag is associated with slavery to a degree yes, but to say it is symbol of racism or slavery is not correct. It was a flag of the southern states that left the union. They had to have a flag and chose that one. That flag has more meaning to many people than just the one that is being expressed here, that is my point.

If you want to know what a real symbol for racism would be, it would be an image of the KKK. Which coincidentally was started in Indiana, a northern state...

And again, you're factually wrong. To begin with, the Confederate flag wasn't a symbol of the entire southern cause. It was a battle flag; it wasn't the flag of the Confederacy. And yes, it is a symbol of racism. Please read this article written by a Southern with long generational ties to the Confederacy:

I am a Southerner by both birth and heritage. I come from a long line of poor white cotton farmers on both sides of my family. Three of my four great-grandfathers fought in the Confederate Army. The fourth had been told by his parents that he could join the army when he turned 13; he was on his way from Texas to Virginia to do so when he met his brothers coming home on the road. They told him that Lee had surrendered and the war was over. My grandmother was a member of the United Daughters of the Confederacy and I was enrolled at the age of 6 in the Children of the Confederacy. I mention these credentials because of what I am about to say about the Confederate battle flag.

The flag that is causing such a furor was not “the Confederate flag,” as so many news reports have described it. It was a military flag, originally square in form, designed by William Porcher Miles, an aide to General P.G.T. Beauregard, after the first Battle of Manassas, because Beauregard thought that the Confederate national flag, which had a circle of white stars in a blue canton and three broad stripes, red, white, and red, was too easily confused with the Union flag in the smoke of battle. Miles’s battle flag was never approved by the Confederate Congress and never adopted as a national flag. It never flew over Confederate government offices, or over the Capitol at Richmond.

It was not even prominent among the symbols of the Lost Cause that helped create the myth of the noble suffering South during the years after the Civil War, nor was it celebrated during those years as a hallowed symbol of the Southern past, as apologists for it claim. According to University of Mississippi historian Allen Cabaniss, writing in The Encyclopedia of Southern Culture, it was seldom displayed at Confederate reunions or used by any of the societies of descendants of Confederate veterans. My grandmother’s United Daughters of the Confederacy chapter used the first national flag, the one that Beauregard thought could be confused with the Union flag, at their meetings, and she made me a small one out of silk to hang in my bedroom.

Cabaniss describes how the Confederate battle flag emerged “out of limbo” as a symbol of white supremacy and segregation during the Dixiecrat political campaign of 1948, when Strom Thurmond of South Carolina ran for president on a platform of states’ rights and segregation. Newspaper accounts of the States Rights Democratic Party convention in Birmingham, Alabama, describe delegates marching into the auditorium under Confederate battle flags as bands played “Dixie.” This set the stage for the adoption of the battle flag by the Ku Klux Klan and the White Citizens Councils across the South as a symbol of their racist opposition to integration. The first time I can remember seeing a picture of the battle flag carried in public was during the Clinton, Tennessee, race riot in 1956, when hooded Klansmen descended on the town and paraded down the main street under the flag.

Next month the Klan will rally at the South Carolina statehouse grounds under the Confederate battle flag. When it was at its peak, in the 1920s, the Klan’s members paraded under the American flag.

The fact is that in the 1950s and 1960s, the Confederate battle flag was hijacked and dishonored by racists and white supremacists who were opposed to the Federal government’s implementation of the 1954 Brown vs. Board of Education Supreme Court decision ending public school segregation. Two years after the decision, in 1956, the Georgia Legislature incorporated the battle flag into the state flag as a protest against integration. The battle flag was first raised over the South Carolina state Capitol on April 11, 1961, to mark the beginning of the Civil War Centennial; in March 1962 the Legislature voted to leave it there as a protest against the civil rights movement. Its 20th century symbolism is clear to anyone who examines the historical record, and it is not something to honor or revere.

http://www.salon.com/2015/07/02/the_confederate_flags_big_lie_how_racists_and_segregationists_made_it_their_own/

[Iron MikeyJ]

You just made my point for me "it was a battle field flag". It was raceist within the KKK that gave it a different meaning. Again, to my point, it has many meanings...

Edited July 2, 2015 by Iron MikeyJ

[DieselDaisy]

Gladstone's diplomatic gaffe from, Newcastle Upon Tyne (believe it or not), 1862,

We may be for or against the South. But there is no doubt that Jefferson Davis and other leaders of the South have made an Army; they are making, it appears, a Navy; and they have made — what is more than either — they have made a Nation... We may anticipate with certainty the success of the Southern States so far as regards their separation from the North.

Palmerston had to do a bit of groveling after that.

[downzy]

You just made my point for me "it was a battle field flag". It was raceist within the KKK that gave it a different meaning. Again, to my point, it has many meanings...

Did you even read the article?

1) It was the battle field flag for the side that was fighting for the preservation of slavery

2) It only became a "symbol" for the Southern cause once the federal government began giving a fuck about enforcing the 14th amendment. This notion that it's about "tradition" and Southern pride is not validated by an examination of its history and the context in which it was flown.