Why Slash deserves and has so much more respect in 2015 compared to Axl.

[wkuk04]

(My favourite Slash solo song)

[Free Bird]

If Slash would do the same, no albums, no tours, if so , doing them late, no interviews, no public appearances, no Hall of Fame, no anything He also would be a fucking Unicorn.

Unicorns aren't exactly the animals I would associate with rockstars

[Rodzilla72]

I think it has something to do with him doing something and releasing stuff.

How did this post get ignored?? Chewbacca's response should have closed this discussion: </thread>. But there are 75 follow up responses to the thread topic: Why Slash deserves and has so much more respect in 2015 compared to Axl.

75 responses...

The official GNR fan club just broke a year or so of radio silence with a contest announcement, where the winner receives a phone call from one of two guys no one outside of a GNR messageboard has ever heard of (and PS you're not allowed to ask them for any news or future band plans- that can't be true btw... is it??)... and there's a multi-page debate over the topic of this thread,

[Słash]

WOAH Wkuk likes Slash's stuff?

[wkuk04]

WOAH Wkuk likes Slash's stuff?

By the sword is awesome. Bent to fly is pretty good, took a little while to get used to the name.

[guzzy]

Just saw Slash show yesterday in Barcelona, awesome attitude and amazing show. It was real fun!!

[Agattuso]

Just saw Slash show yesterday in Barcelona, awesome attitude and amazing show. It was real fun!!

I was there too. And it was great to see that the crowd love his solo material

[Słash]

WOAH Wkuk likes Slash's stuff?

By the sword is awesome. Bent to fly is pretty good, took a little while to get used to the name.

Btw have you seen Axl's band or Slash's band live?

[wkuk04]

WOAH Wkuk likes Slash's stuff?

By the sword is awesome. Bent to fly is pretty good, took a little while to get used to the name.

Btw have you seen Axl's band or Slash's band live?

No. Would love to though, nearest possible place would be Manchester.

[Majestic Beast]

Slash has a fanbase that supporting him and there is respect for what his is doing,new music,tours,communication with his fans and updates for new albums,the fanbase of Axl almost begging for a leak or snippet or interview or tour,there is difference and people dont be fool not see that.

[DieselDaisy]

Slash has a fanbase that supporting him and there is respect for what his is doing,new music,tours,communication with his fans and updates for new albums,the fanbase of Axl almost begging for a leak or snippet or interview or tour,there is difference and people dont be fool not see that.

Correction, everybody has a fanbase like that - all that is except for Axl. I do not see anyone doing what Axl does which is basically completely nothing, no album, no communication. As I said before, even the corpses (MJ, Elvis, Hendrix) are more prolific. It sort of gives you the reason why Axl fans are mentally warped. They are literally forced to defend a guy who shoves a dick up their arse at every opportunity - although some of them probably like that.

[Rodzilla72]

Slash has a fanbase that supporting him and there is respect for what his is doing,new music,tours,communication with his fans and updates for new albums,the fanbase of Axl almost begging for a leak or snippet or interview or tour,there is difference and people dont be fool not see that.

Correction, everybody has a fanbase like that - all that is except for Axl. I do not see anyone doing what Axl does which is basically completely nothing, no album, no communication. As I said before, even the corpses (MJ, Elvis, Hendrix) are more prolific. It sort of gives you the reason why Axl fans are mentally warped. They are literally forced to defend a guy who shoves a dick up their arse at every opportunity - although some of them probably like that.

Another astute post- in a sea of delusional ones... the only thing you missed was adding /thread to the end of your comment.

[maynard]

Fans forcing themselves to like and support Axl are disappearing. Even in Brazilian forums, which are all basically dead, I don't see anyone else supporting Axl anymore. Like I said before, people are going from frustration to simply lack of interest and if Axl decides to return from retirement one more time, he might be surprised with the lack of support from his defense force.

Of course, casual fans will always be there to listen to SCOM one more time. If Axl is fine with that, it shows how much of a mediocre and uninspired artist he is, a complete hack and a failure.

Slash will keep releasing rock albums and you will see kids doing his poses and starting to play guitar because of him. Axl seems like the kind of celebrity who would fit in nicely in a crappy reality show.

[BangoSkank]

Axl definitely shoots himself in the foot (late starts, no publicity, not rehearsing, extremely slow to release not just new music, but DVDs, etc.). Slash does the opposite of all this. But having said all of that, I'll always be way more interested in what Axl does, when he finally gets around to doing it.

Slash releases music, shows up on time, plays shows, and does publicity, but when Axl actually does those things, and goes all in, there's almost no one better.

LMAO. Look at the release and post release of Democracy and tell us Axl goes all in and nobody does it better. That's the most ridiculous statement I've read in this thread.

I said "when Axl goes all in," not "he always goes all in." Jesus.

And a good example of Axl doing this post CD release is the entire year of 2010.

Edited July 9, 2015 by BangoSkank

[Słash]

WOAH Wkuk likes Slash's stuff?

By the sword is awesome. Bent to fly is pretty good, took a little while to get used to the name.

Btw have you seen Axl's band or Slash's band live?

No. Would love to though, nearest possible place would be Manchester.

Why din't you go in all these years? I guess they performed in Manchester or maybe near Manchester

[AtariLegend]

Axl fans are mentally warped. They are literally forced to defend a guy who shoves a dick up their arse at every opportunity - although some of them probably like that.

Is it not more mentally warped to have over 10,000 posts (quite a few long winded) in the space of a few years on a forum complaining about how you don't like the music someone put out or his appearance?

I mean no offence, but jesus how many hours online a day did you spend online complaining about ole Axl? Same goes for certain other people, never mind the people with multiple personas/accounts. Has Nosaj for example ever seen the sun in the past few years?

Edited July 9, 2015 by AtariLegend

[Apollo]

Axl fans are mentally warped. They are literally forced to defend a guy who shoves a dick up their arse at every opportunity - although some of them probably like that.

Is it not more mentally warped to have over 10,000 posts (quite a few long winded) in the space of a few years on a forum complaining about how you don't like the music someone put out or his appearance?

I mean no offence, but jesus how many hours online a day did you spend online complaining about ole Axl? Same goes for certain other people, never mind the people with multiple personas/accounts. Has Nosaj for example ever seen the sun in the past few years?

While I have to agree with some of what you said, let me ask you this.

What difference does a person's opinion on a band (good or bad) have to do with your last paragraph? You ask if Nosaj has seen the sun in the past few years, why don't you make comments like that about people who love GnR/Axl but also have 10,000 posts on here? Their love/dislike of the band shouldn't change the circumstances?

I've been posting on this forum for over a decade. I'm doing it right now. As I sit at WORK, looking out my office window at float planes taking off from the ocean. During my lunch break I'll probably walk down to a local deli and get a sub sandwich. After work I'll go home and maybe take the wife/kids to the beach or for a walk to the playground.

I don't get the "get a life" type posts. Most people have the internet on their phones. Somebody can make 20 posts a day on this forum and have it only take up 30 minutes of their work day.

[DieselDaisy]

Axl fans are mentally warped. They are literally forced to defend a guy who shoves a dick up their arse at every opportunity - although some of them probably like that.

Is it not more mentally warped to have over 10,000 posts (quite a few long winded) in the space of a few years on a forum complaining about how you don't like the music someone put out or his appearance?

I mean no offence, but jesus how many hours online a day did you spend online complaining about ole Axl? Same goes for certain other people, never mind the people with multiple personas/accounts. Has Nosaj for example ever seen the sun in the past few years?

I really do not think you can attribute all of those posts to, how I ''don't like the music someone put out or his appearance''. In fact a lot of them posts are probably me talking about cricket haha. And how often do I talk about his ''appearance''? A few jokes, yes, but not often.

[AtariLegend]

I don't get the "get a life" type posts. Most people have the internet on their phones. Somebody can make 20 posts a day on this forum and have it only take up 30 minutes of their work day.

Oh only 30 minutes every day for a few years to reach that kind of post count. Totally healthy should be part of anyone's routine.

why don't you make comments like that about people who love GnR/Axl but also have 10,000 posts on here?

Well go on then, name and shame the posters who have made more than 10K + posts in a few short years that only ever go on about how much they love everything.

Their love/dislike of the band shouldn't change the circumstances?

"Axl fans are mentally warped"

[DieselDaisy]

What the heck are you going on about? Go and analyse my posts - you can pull them all up can't you? I bet you any money approx. 40% are about sports, 30% are about films and other things, and probably 30% are about Axl Pose. I only continue to observe and post on the gnr stuff because it is like a comedy, car crash television.

[Apollo]

I don't get the "get a life" type posts. Most people have the internet on their phones. Somebody can make 20 posts a day on this forum and have it only take up 30 minutes of their work day.

Oh only 30 minutes every day for a few years to reach that kind of post count. Totally healthy should be part of anyone's routine.

why don't you make comments like that about people who love GnR/Axl but also have 10,000 posts on here?

Well go on then, name and shame the posters who have made more than 10K + posts in a few short years that only ever go on about how much they love everything.

Their love/dislike of the band shouldn't change the circumstances?

"Axl fans are mentally warped"

You are quoting what somebody else said and wanting me to comment on it?

And you say "name the posters to shame them".........maybe you are the one who takes internet rock band forums too seriously. 99.9% of us are adults and we don't come to forums to "shame" people. We come to chat about GnR. Just the very fact that you'd say something like that says a lot about you.

You are posting here. I'm posting here. So what is the proper time limit that one can post without them wasting their life away and needing to go outside? How can we remain healthy and positive like you? You've got it down to a science apparently, so what's the cut off point? If - while I'm at work - I make 10 posts a day, am I still "good" or is that two posts too many, and I need to get a life? What is the cut off number?

And what is number you can post as long as you are pro-active, because according to you, that makes a difference.

I'll start and you correct the numbers

Pro Axl posts: 1-10 per day you have a life. 11 or more per day and you don't have a life.

Anti-Axl posts: 1-4 per day and you have a life. 5 or more per day and you don't have a life.

Middle of the road, some good, some bad: 1-7 per day and you have a life, 8 or more and you don't have a life

I love it when people insult others for posting at the same site they post at.

What the heck are you going on about? Go and analyse my posts - you can pull them all up can't you? I bet you any money approx. 40% are about sports, 30% are about films and other things, and probably 30% are about Axl Pose. I only continue to observe and post on the gnr stuff because it is like a comedy, car crash television.

Don't worry about it dude.

Some people just come here to shame others.

[Nosaj Thing]

Has Nosaj for example ever seen the sun in the past few years?

It is winter over here, but yeah, I have seen the sun in the past few years, which immediately contradicts your straw-man posture. It's like thinking that just because you love to complain about GoT TV series adaptation of the books you have read, I should immediately assume you're a fat, four-eyes, pimple-faced loser.

[Tom2112]

This actually is a good segue-way to some questions I myself had:

Was Axl Rose, by 1991, more of a liability to Guns than an asset?

On one hand, whether you like the song and video and what they represent or not, NR did send GN'R soaring to a whole new level of popularity. You have Axl's larger than life personality which even as late as 2006 drew the mainstream in, and always kept people guessing. Axl is and has always been one of those people who even during their lifetimes seem more than your average person; they have a mystique, an aura - like Jim Morrison. Axl's personality is a big part of why Guns became big in the first place - You could argue his charisma is, in part, what set Guns apart from Motley Crue or Great White - He was a lot more interesting as a person than Vince Neil or Jack Russell, and a lot more talented lyrically. He was also a lot more 'real' in his lyricism than either - this was a guy speaking from genuine experience and with genuine issues; a genuine 'badass' who had really done time in jail and didn't just talk the talk. Because of him we have songs like Estranged, November Rain and Breakdown. It's because of him that Welcome to the Jungle has the catchy lyrics it has. He spoke to perhaps not all of Gen X - but to a certain segment of the younger Boomers and Gen X.

On the other hand...You have from 1991 to 1994 the needless late starts, sometimes with the show starting 2-3 hours after the opening act had left, leaving the fans waiting in total 4, 5 hours just to see the band. The riots. The rants. The childish tracks like Shotgun Blues and Get in the Ring and Back Off Bitch. The really fucking stupid stage outfits that make almost every UYI show terribly cheesy to watch. The bizarre vocal overdubs and weird sound effects all over the UYIs (IE the bubble sounds on Garden of Eden, all his corny vocal overdubs). Dizzy Reed. The Vegas style back-up band in 1992. The wife-beating allegations.

Stopping shows in the middle of a song to call out a fan, even if the fan was in the wrong. Stopping songs right in the middle and threatening to leave, killing the momentum of the show and probably any fun the band was having, and probably making the audience nervous. The 'Trilogy' - mainly the Estranged video as the worst offender. The self-absorbed, Hollywood, prima donna horseshit - affecting a Martyr/Jesus look (with the beard in 1992), the self-indulgent photo shoots while refusing to take group shots with the band after 1991, the horrid and cringeworthy short shorts, chest protector and other very bizarre clothes he wore on stage, performing with Elton John and a 120 piece orchestra while Nirvana ripped up the stage with Lithium, the past-lives regression therapy nonsense that he began promoting to the media in 1992....

Taking it back a little further, Axl's inclusion of the N word and slurs at gays and immigrants, made GN'R forever appear like the band of the KKK and of dumb jocks. That alone made Guns as a whole ripe for crucifixion as cultural dinosaurs - as nothing more than relics of the long ago '70s rather than a band for now (the 1990s) by the likes of Cobain etc. Axl provided the media and his enemies with plenty of ammunition for the assassination of both his character, his reputation, and the reputation of Guns N' Roses as a whole, which by association tarred (at the time - the '90s) the other band members.

All of these factors served to make GN'R as a whole - and not simply Axl himself - seem dated well before what should've been their expiration date. The 1990s should have been their prime, their peak - and in some ways, '91-93 was their peak. But by 1993, due to all the stuff I outlined above, Guns, even if they were still very much popular, were greatly disliked and viewed as something of a cool joke. Banal. Vulgar, and not in a fun way - lewd. A turn off. The Steven Seagal of Hard Rock. Old fashioned, retro, and more like a parody of a rock band than a group to be taken seriously. A real life Spinal Tap.

Axl's pomposity, and his divisive nature, is what made GN'R a popular target of the Grunge acts. Kurt Cobain never really attacked GN'R as a whole - He attacked Axl using the name "GN'R" IE "GN'R are a band of sexist, racist jerks", as Axl in the public eye represented GN'R. Axl is what made bands like Soundgarden and Metallica, who might've gotten along with the rest of Guns, despise GN'R. Axl is the one who caused the band to barely break even on the massively popular UYI tour because of his indulgent theme parties.

If you read Duff's book, while an addict ultimately has no one else to blame for their addiction but themselves, Duff makes it clear that the band drank/drugged in excess to cope with the long waits and the fear of rioting and a repeat of St. Louis or worse. "Axl's late? Let's have another vodka/snort of coke." Axl made everything that was supposed to be fun be more of a dread for the band. Axl, at least from Duff's POV, had this habit of turning every grand victory or what should've been a huge moment, into either a neutral sort of meh or a defeat. Izzy stopped wanting to deal with Guns day to day after Chicago - and Chicago was Axl's whole idea, and then he didn't even bother to show up for a month. Axl broke the band's sense of togetherness/gang mentality permanently when he called them out publicly for drugs.

While it can be argued that the public probably wouldn't have been nearly as interested in GN'R if it weren't for Axl - he was the unpredictable element that made GN'R a dangerous, rebellious, explosive element - "The Most Dangerous Band in the World", it can also be argued that if Axl had been fired in say...1991? 1990? The band might've come out of the 1990s both together and with a much better reputation.

I mean, Axl says Slash was the one holding GN'R back from musically progressing. That Slash didn't want to do the 'hard work' of moving GN'R forward or even pushing himself or challenging himself musically as a guitarist. And yet Slash is the guy who from all accounts brought Coma in as a mostly complete vehicle - a ten minute long progressive metal song with multiple changes. Slash is the guy who is largely responsible for Locomotive, another progressive rock number with a funk groove - something quite unique. Slash, Duff and Izzy, without Axl being around, worked out Locomotive, Bad Apples, Civil War, Pretty Tied Up, Don't Damn Me, Dust N' Bones and The Garden musically around 1989.

It can be argued that it was Axl's mental issues along with his perfectionism and also intermittent writer's block that kept the UYIs from being released in 1989, or 1990. That the band without him might not have released two albums, which has left the legacy of the albums in doubt due to the amount of filler equaling the number of great tracks.

The UYI songs, if we take them as instrumentals, if they were mixed rawer, would've been utterly contemporary in 1991, cutting edge. Not Nirvana, but utterly fitting with what was huge in the early/mid 90s. Pretty Tied Up and Locomotive musically sound like something Pearl Jam would've put out on Ten. It's Axl's lyrics that turn them into either childish misogynistic pieces or self-indulgent head trips. It's Axl's vocal effects and overdubs and the addition of Dizzy Reed that rip from the songs that raw power they could've had. It's the mixing - which I no doubt Axl oversaw or had a heavy hand in - which leaves the actual recordings of the UYI recordings sounding polished, sterile, with Matt's drums mixed so flat and Duff's bass given that dated early 90s slap.

I know myself, that Axl's vocals and the production, for me is what drags down the UYIs. I love the UYIs in spite of Axl's vocal performances and stupid noises - not because of them. On some tracks he vocally shines and others he is too high in the mix and is a pain to listen to, and all the songs are mixed horribly, leaving Matt who is a great drummer to sound like a drum machine, and Slash's guitar to sound overly polished and lacking in balls.

So, my question to you is, might GN'R have been better off without Axl after the UYIs?

Axl said openly Slash should've left after Lies. But maybe it should be the other way around - But then again, maybe without Axl, the band would've faded rapidly into obscurity and irrelevance as The Doors did without Jim Morrison, and maybe it was Axl's antics and volatile nature and vision that kept them unique in 1991 - After all, it cannot be denied that November Rain, Axl's vision captured in a single song, gave GN'R a second wind - chart wise and cultural relevance wise, it's their biggest hit only after SCOM - no other song of theirs was as big a hit as those two, and their creation was led by Axl - NR being his direct product, and SCOM being his seeing something potentially big where Slash saw just a worthless, stupid circus sounding guitar riff.

It can be argued, too, that left to their own devices, the band might NOT have pushed themselves to create stuff like Locomotive to "please" Axl or meet his expectations for the next album, and that Slash, Duff etc might have instead been content to create an AFD II - pleasing to the fans, but making GN'R no different than Crue in the long run. I have no doubt that Slash, Duff circa 1991 would've had no problem with pumping out an album of Paradise City style tracks.

It can be argued that, while humiliating, Axl's public call-out of the band on the issue of drugs might've saved their lives and forced at least short-term sobriety. It can be argued (from an objective standpoint putting aside any personal dislike of Dizzy as a person or musician) that the addition of Dizzy Reed, objectively, was an attempt to introduce a new element into their music rather than be AC/DC. It can be argued that the addition of the Big Band in 1992 was an attempt to give the audience a larger and thus more thrilling show, following the model he had seen on the Stones 1989 tour.

So, my question to you is,

What about Axl? Was he more a hindrance to Guns N' Roses after say, 1988, or a help? Should he have been sacked - or would the band have died (figuratively and possibly literally) without him? What should we think of Axl?

Might GN'R have appeared much less of a joke without his presence in the 1990s?

Might the UYIs have been better albums without Axl's lyrics in some places, and without his effects?

First off matt sounds like a drum machine because that's how he played, the mix didn't make him sound robotic, just listen to him on the Illusions tour... he isn't much different.

Coma... that song is not a masterpiece, it's got a bog standard riff and while there's changes within the song it still sounds repetitive. It's one of those songs that GnR fans love and pine for, but it really isn't that good. It's right up there with Silkworms or Oh My God.

Slash has released much more music, and he has maintained a public image since leaving. He's also played it quite safe, he doesn't reinvent the wheel but what he does release is enjoyable for what it is. In my opinion he's released one solid (very good) album since leaving guns, and that was World On Fire, everything else was hit and miss including Snakepit and VR.

Axl has done buggar all since the old guns split, yes he's toured and he released CD, but besides that he has done buggar all. He has a shit reputation within the music industry and a even worse one among music fans. He has squandered great amounts of time stewing on old feuds, new feuds, court cases and just about everything else. I think it's safe to say that he ultimately wants people to listen to his music and not judge it based on his actions outside of the listening experience... but he will never have that. He had several chances, and he blew it every time. The most recent time being 2010s tour in Europe, he could have made a effort not to mess around and just be close to on time but he didn't he pretty much sabotaged himself within the media, further painting himself as a petulant child. The last nail has been the fact that he could have followed CD relatively quick and shut a lot of people up, but he decided to wait, and wait until now it's going to be at least 8 years after CDs release before he puts out a record, admittedly a much shorter gestation than CD. The problem was that, the album seems to have been finished years ago, they could have released it while touring and people would have said "yeah they spent 10 years making Cd, but now they've released another album less than 4 years (or however long) from the last".

Axl was a liability like you said but without him that band would not have made it, and they certainly wouldn't be held in such regard (classic line up) if he had left after Lies. Every one of the guys did their part, but Axl was the piece that made it all work and be different and edgy. Having said all that without any one member of that band they weren't the same, as proven by Izzy and Steven.

[Nosaj Thing]

I don't get the "get a life" type posts. Most people have the internet on their phones. Somebody can make 20 posts a day on this forum and have it only take up 30 minutes of their work day.

That's called straw-manning.

[jmapelian]

Axl definitely shoots himself in the foot (late starts, no publicity, not rehearsing, extremely slow to release not just new music, but DVDs, etc.). Slash does the opposite of all this. But having said all of that, I'll always be way more interested in what Axl does, when he finally gets around to doing it.

Slash releases music, shows up on time, plays shows, and does publicity, but when Axl actually does those things, and goes all in, there's almost no one better.

LMAO. Look at the release and post release of Democracy and tell us Axl goes all in and nobody does it better. That's the most ridiculous statement I've read in this thread.

I said "when Axl goes all in," not "he always goes all in." Jesus.

And a good example of Axl doing this post CD release is the entire year of 2010.

my bad, misread it.......it's just axl so very rarely goes all in, it's usually half-assed if anything and when I hear people call axl a perfectionist i laugh and think it's an insult to those of us that are actually perfectionists