Refugee crisis Europe

[SoulMonster]

As for why this is happening. The blame is not entirely on USA and their allies and their handling of affairs in the Middle East region (i particular the war and subsequent pulling out of forces in Iraq). A lot of it, like the continuing war in Syria, is a consequence of the Arabian Spring. These two things together have created the instability that ISIS and other rebels needed.

Regardless of blame, the situation now is so horrible that huge tracts of people flee from Syria and neigbouring countries and we, as fellow humans, have a moral obligation to help out.

[The Black]

As for why this is happening. The blame is not entirely on USA and their allies and their handling of affairs in the Middle East region (i particular the war and subsequent pulling out of forces in Iraq). A lot of it, like the continuing war in Syria, is a consequence of the Arabian Spring. These two things together have created the instability that ISIS and other rebels needed.

Regardless of blame, the situation now is so horrible that huge tracts of people flee from Syria and neigbouring countries and we, as fellow humans, have a moral obligation to help out.

Hungary and Austria are safe, but offer little.

Germany and the Netherlands etc offer free money, nice housing, food, clothes, etc.

That's why they're all fleeing to those countries, even though they are now safe!

If I were in their shoes, I'd do exactly the same, I can't really blame them. But, as a tax paying working citizen, you're going to be paying more for them eventually, and it's hard to get a house/apartment to rent if you're a citizen, yet they're given priority. Next to being given everything for free, they've got nothing to add to society other than more problems. Islam is against integration, so add that to it as well.

I would say offer them everything now while they are in trouble and fear, everybody deserves to have that safety and luxury while they are here. But send them back once they can return to Syria safely. Stop this political correctness bullshit and just send them back once it's ok again.

Anyway, they're going to start having kids here, and getting European passports for their children, so it's not going to happen. We're stuck with millions of people (not yet, but they're coming) who are uneducated and unwilling to integrate, but are very willing to abuse our social system. And who ends up paying for it? Oh that's right, the tax paying citizens that are given nothing back for their work, other than more taxes when the bills start to add up. I worked in Abu Dhabi for a while, and no way in hell are they handing out any citizenships to internationals, they laugh at the prospect.

I might sound harsh, but it's just the reality of it. Please come here and be safe, but when possible, please go back.

[Snake-Pit]

They don't want Hungary... Or Austria...

Beggers it seems, are being choosers, but we have laws, you need passport to travel around here, maybe even visas for them...

They are desperate people though...

Edited September 5, 2015 by Snake-Pit

[DieselDaisy]

Some of them are black Snakes? And not only that but ladies?

[Len Cnut]

When stuff like this happens is funny to watch how many of the phoney liberal occupy wall street rainbow parade mung bean eating save the children envoirnmental hippies turn around and go 'what, wogs?!? Fuck that!'

[The Black]

They don't want Hungary... Or Austria...

Beggers it seems, are being choosers, but we have laws, you need passport to travel around here, maybe even visas for them...

They are desperate people though...

We also have the Dublin Regulation, which has clearly flown out the window...

[Snake-Pit]

What's a 'the Dublin Regulation'?

Vote for me, Snake-Pit

[The Black]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Regulation

And you can also read about the partial suspension in the last paragraph.

[DR DOOM]

I know this will be deemed racist, but who wants to fill up their country with those stone age motherfuckers?

[classicrawker]

As for why this is happening. The blame is not entirely on USA and their allies and their handling of affairs in the Middle East region (i particular the war and subsequent pulling out of forces in Iraq). A lot of it, like the continuing war in Syria, is a consequence of the Arabian Spring. These two things together have created the instability that ISIS and other rebels needed.

Regardless of blame, the situation now is so horrible that huge tracts of people flee from Syria and neigbouring countries and we, as fellow humans, have a moral obligation to help out.

I agree with you but Shades keeps ignoring the facts of the situation. The Bush administrations invasion of Iraq was based on lies. It destabilized the region by removing Sadaam and leaving a power vacuum which allowed the extremists to fight for power.

Obama did not cut and run as he was obligated to pull all American troops out of Iraq by a treaty that the Bush administration signed.

Anyone which thinks the U.S. putting troops back into the Middle East to take on ISIS is the solution is naive as this will not solve the problem long term. We may temporarily defeat them but we cannot keep troops there forever and as soon as we pull out they will regroup and start all over again. We have already seen that the U.S> trained and armed Iraqi Army has no stomach for fighting ISIS.

The only people with any chance to contain this problem are the other Arab nations as it is in their backyard but it is a very delicate situation for them because if they get involved they would be fighting other Muslims which could cause problems in their own countries.

ISIS has an army somewhere between 10-30K soldiers. This is nothing compared to the other Arab countries which have Armies in the millions not to mention their superiority because of airpower which ISIS does not have. It is time for Iran, Saudi Arabia Egypt etc. to step up to protect their interests IMHO.

Consequence of the 2003 Iraq war.

Thank you USA for the chaos !

actually Goober,

consequences of the Obama administration

leaving Iraq allowing

the Terrorists to move in among the chaos

Removing Ghadaffi from Libya and creating another vacuum for a terrorists take over

ignoring the crisis in Syria while factions of terrorists gain momentum

and now the icing on the cake in allowing Iran to have access to billions of dollars which they will no doubt use to fund their involvement in terror.

the poor people fleeing the turmoil throughout the region have been left without an American leader that

in any other time in history would have been at the forefront

of this humanitarian crisis.

Without Americas presence no one else will step up to confront ISIS,

and they will have to be confronted sooner or later, their not going away by themselves.

A real leader would realize this and decide to confront them before they gain even more power and resources.

But unfortunately Obama decides policy based on his political agenda.

On behalf of the real Americans left here, I apologize.

The only way we need to confront ISIS is to close our border and not allow any refugees/immigrants into our nation. ISIS is not our problem and we should not be sending our soldiers to die on foreign soil unless we are being invaded. Enough of this shit.

This maybe the first time and only time I will ever agreed with you. But good luck closing our borders.

Edited September 5, 2015 by classicrawker

[Amir]

I know this will be deemed racist, but who wants to fill up their country with those stone age motherfuckers?

They're running away from the stone age motherfuckers. These people just want to live ordinary lives.

[DR DOOM]

I know this will be deemed racist, but who wants to fill up their country with those stone age motherfuckers?

They're running away from the stone age motherfuckers. These people just want to live ordinary lives.

You're probably right, and more informed than me...I will say that the dozen or so Iraqis, Afghans and Persians (don't like being referred to as Iranian?) I've known have all been really gentle, intelligent and decent people.

Honestly though,I look at Africa and the Middle East and can't help but think that filling up other countries with their respective peoples isn't going to end well for them...add China to that list too.

What the world needs is more Syrias, Africas, Chinas etc, right?

[Amir]

I know this will be deemed racist, but who wants to fill up their country with those stone age motherfuckers?

They're running away from the stone age motherfuckers. These people just want to live ordinary lives.

You're probably right, and more informed than me...I will say that the dozen or so Iraqis, Afghans and Persians (don't like being referred to as Iranian?) I've known have all been really gentle, intelligent and decent people.

Honestly though,I look at Africa and the Middle East and can't help but think that filling up other countries with their respective peoples isn't going to end well for them...add China to that list too.

What the world needs is more Syrias, Africas, Chinas etc, right?

Middle East is a mess to put it lightly, I don't think anyone's got any clue on how to make it less of a mess to be honest.

I don't really know much about China except it seems everyone likes to think they know best how to "deal" with China.

[JeanGenie]

There are 50 Million people on the run. Europe offers a better living standard then 80% of the people on this planet have. The problem is that letting so many refugees get in shows everybody that immigration works. Most of the people should be sent back immedeatly.

Or in the words of the great Larry Summers I think the logic behind sending refugees back to their countries is impeccable and we should face up to it.

[Georgy Zhukov]

I read an article that Putin says Assad is ready to make alliances with some of the opposition to help defeat ISIL. He believes the Americans should lead the air strikes but honestly, I think we've had enough. It is time for Europeans and Middle Eastern countries to take over. They are the ones being most affected by the crisis. Putin should send in his pilots as well. Nice to see those bad ass MIGs in action.

[Snake-Pit]

Why should Americans die because Assad is willing to let them in, what's in it for America?

An end to terrorist training camps perhaps? IDK.

@ Putin

What, he wants America to do all the hard work for nothing?

Edited September 5, 2015 by Snake-Pit

[GivenToFly]

I know this will be deemed racist, but who wants to fill up their country with those stone age motherfuckers?

They're running away from the stone age motherfuckers. These people just want to live ordinary lives.

You're probably right, and more informed than me...I will say that the dozen or so Iraqis, Afghans and Persians (don't like being referred to as Iranian?) I've known have all been really gentle, intelligent and decent people.

Honestly though,I look at Africa and the Middle East and can't help but think that filling up other countries with their respective peoples isn't going to end well for them...add China to that list too.

What the world needs is more Syrias, Africas, Chinas etc, right?

Middle East is a mess to put it lightly, I don't think anyone's got any clue on how to make it less of a mess to be honest.

The only thing that has even remotely worked in maintaining a semblance of peace and order without crossing a threshold of reprehensibility (a la Saudi Arabia) have been secular (or at least semi-secular) military dictatorships. Setting up and propping up client governments of that sort could be the only half decent and half workable solution long term. Some would say it's "not our business" or "not our place" but in a world as globalized and interconnected as this those notions are too idealistic in my opinion.

[Strange Broue]

I see them as migrants not refugees. It's almost an invasion and they're fleeing from their duty to fight isis. It's scary. Our press/politic campaigns are way too orchestrated here in france. Europe is fucked if they continue this but no, everyone is encouraging this mess. Follow the trail of garbage and shitty diapers.

This is not the year to quit drinking.

Syria and Afganistan and Libya= refugees

Others= migrants

Of course this is simplicity, but still true

I'm surprised this doesn't have a topic yet. Europe is currently experiencing massive refugee increases from Syria and surrounding countries, people who are on the run from IS and the ongoing war. The whole situation is one of the biggest messes Europe had to face and shows its complete and utter failure to cope with such a phenomenon (think aftermath Katrina); the refugees aren't distributed evenly amongst the member states and some are allowed in to shelters, others denied and forced to roam city parks (often depending on the aid of volunteers) and some are even placed in camps. Over here in Belgium, only 250 people are allowed to register on a daily basis when it's clear that number is insufficient. Reactions to the refugees range from people who show solidarity to those who accuse them of intending to take advantage of the social welfare our countries provide (some people on social media would rather see them dead than survive); Already politicians and even business men are calling upon on illegal immigrants to provide community service or cheap labour employment (the parallels with the US poignant). Perhaps Trump could come and sell his wall here as well.

Most refugees want to go to Germany because human smugglers paint them pictures of high minimum wage (1000 euros) and housing if they'd get there. East-european countries are said to be very anti-islam and don't want to house refugees; newscasts show footage of hordes of refugees trampling each other in a train station in Hungary waiting anxiously to catch a train to the "promised land" Germany or Austria and having to exit said train when it's announced it wont leave. Refugees hiding in transport trucks and some even suffocating, all kind of madness going on. Most shocking was the image of a young child dead on the shores of Turkey. It's a big humanitarian crisis that doesn't look like it will be ending anytime soon. Your thoughts?

Oh, man, you have really no idea how this works, don't you?

I put the blame on Germany and Austria

Nevertheless, Hungary is shit too (my home country). The prime minister and our whole goverment have zero fucking idea how to handle this situation, but the opposition parties are just liberal assholes so they might be worse....

We have enough poor bastards, so as long as Austria and Germany won't open their borders for everybody, we (Hungarians) are fucked with this situation. Greece refused to register the refugees so the first Schengen country for them is Hungary...

Believe me, i spent half of my last month in Migration Aid here in Hungary

Last week 71 people died in a smuglers van

Today one palestinian dude died

This is madness, people

I really have no idea how this works? I know that the east block countries like Hungary don't want more Muslims and want to make sure everyone of the refugees makes their way to Germany or Austria. They have no intent of doing their share, "it's Germany's problem" your prime minister said. It's funny how when Hungary needs agricultural or other subsidies from Europe, they are quick to take, yet when it comes to doing their share in this crisis, it's "Please don't come here" (literal words of your PM). All this division only adds to the madness and hopefully will have Europe re-evaluate its policies (and perhaps memberships though I'm sure the eurocritics will only add fuel to the fire).

It's not about being muslim, here in Hungary people hate literally EVERYBODY, even each other

WE have gypsies, though so it's tough enough

agricultural and other subsidies?

wtf?

We export half of Germany's vegetables and fruits, bro

Get your facts straight

Btw Germany shouldn't be allowed as a great power

For fuck's sake Germany and the Soives Union rob my country at least 4-5 times in history

So get of your high horse

I know exactly that my goverment is shit, but Merkel is the biggest hypocrite in the EU

Edited September 5, 2015 by Strange Broue

[Strange Broue]

As for why this is happening. The blame is not entirely on USA and their allies and their handling of affairs in the Middle East region (i particular the war and subsequent pulling out of forces in Iraq). A lot of it, like the continuing war in Syria, is a consequence of the Arabian Spring. These two things together have created the instability that ISIS and other rebels needed.

Regardless of blame, the situation now is so horrible that huge tracts of people flee from Syria and neigbouring countries and we, as fellow humans, have a moral obligation to help out.

Hungary and Austria are safe, but offer little.

Germany and the Netherlands etc offer free money, nice housing, food, clothes, etc.

That's why they're all fleeing to those countries, even though they are now safe!

If I were in their shoes, I'd do exactly the same, I can't really blame them. But, as a tax paying working citizen, you're going to be paying more for them eventually, and it's hard to get a house/apartment to rent if you're a citizen, yet they're given priority. Next to being given everything for free, they've got nothing to add to society other than more problems. Islam is against integration, so add that to it as well.

I would say offer them everything now while they are in trouble and fear, everybody deserves to have that safety and luxury while they are here. But send them back once they can return to Syria safely. Stop this political correctness bullshit and just send them back once it's ok again.

Anyway, they're going to start having kids here, and getting European passports for their children, so it's not going to happen. We're stuck with millions of people (not yet, but they're coming) who are uneducated and unwilling to integrate, but are very willing to abuse our social system. And who ends up paying for it? Oh that's right, the tax paying citizens that are given nothing back for their work, other than more taxes when the bills start to add up. I worked in Abu Dhabi for a while, and no way in hell are they handing out any citizenships to internationals, they laugh at the prospect.

I might sound harsh, but it's just the reality of it. Please come here and be safe, but when possible, please go back.

Fair points

[Bumblefeet]

It's not about being muslim, here in Hungary people hate literally EVERYBODY, even each other

WE have gypsies, though so it's tough enough

agricultural and other subsidies?

wtf?

We export half of Germany's vegetables and fruits, bro

Get your facts straight

"Hungary: €1.9 billion in agricultural subsidies from EU in 2014-2020 period

The European Union agricultural subsidies granted to Hungary will increase to € 1.9 billion (HUF 587 billion) for the period between 2014 and 2020; this will particularly apply to direct aid, as reported last Wednesday by the State Secretary for the Agricultural Economy of the Ministry of Rural Development, György Czerván."

Guess you might want to tell your leaders to start exporting to other countries as well, your country has been flirting with European budget control for a decade now, barely managing to get your deficit in order.

Get your facts straight and stop bs'ing.

P.S. your country not only applies for agricultural subsidy but has also been part of corruption with large scale embezzlement by your own political leaders in 2013 when they unlawfully applied for subsidies.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Bumblefeet

[The Glow Inc.]

Meanwhile, the Gulf States couldn't give any less of a shit...

[Bumblefeet]

Meanwhile, the Gulf States couldn't give any less of a shit...

Yes, from what I've read the only thing Saudi Arabia is doing at the moment is extending the work visa of Syrians workers who are there legally and the Saudi government is also donating money. Now, that said, apparently it is easier to vacate Syria via the north than it is via the south due to IS conquered hostile territory, but not impossible.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Bumblefeet

[Snake-Pit]

I have witnessed the refugee camp at Calais, France by the P&O Ferry Port last Tuesday... Looked livelier than Belgium and a bit like Vauxhall Market, but smaller!.. Kind of wished we stopped to shop there than at that chocolate factory in Belgium too - ... j/k, but those people are there for a reason, to come to the United Kingdom... and we born on this rock with rolling hills and mountain tops from volcanos lost, and those with EU passports, as well as those with travel papers - get to come in each day for free (Cost of their ticket and papers/documents/passports etc etc etc)... - Those Syrians (or whoever)! camped at that camp... Don't, they want to, but don't have the luxury of a country that hasn't gone to war and/or tried to kill them; and Belgium's boring! - and there is a homeless man from Camden sitting in Amsterdam with a guitar waiting to become Dutch! - so it's either go to the UK, or sit in Amsterdam for 2 years before you get your BSN? - I've yet to see more of Europe.

[Georgy Zhukov]

I don't think the Syrians would like Saudi Arabia that much. Qatar and U.A.E. could would hire them for back breaking manual labor. Yemen, fuck that. Oman could take them. Jordan has enough refugees as it is.

[Len Cnut]

Was comin' back through Euston station after the football and there was these bummy lookin' fellas with Syrian flags and that, dont like to be presumptuous about these things but i think they were refugees.