Axl burning a Nirvana hat with the band playing Smells Like Teen Spirit in the background

[maynard]

Axl was such a sellout that wanted GNR to sound like Nirvana and PJ mixed with NIN on GNR's next releases. The guy wanted to sound cool to the kids and wasn't afraid of selling GNR's soul and trademark sound to sell more records, with grunge influences and hip hop beats, something GNR was never about. Some people were fooled into calling that "the EVOLUTION of the GNR sound", lol. The result? The pathetic Chinese Democracy, a soulless album with Axl hilariously emulating Trent Reznor and Nu Metal bands.

I don't like Nirvana, they are overrated as fuck. Kurt was not a very talented guy and a terrible guitar player. Dave Grohl is awesome.

[Bumblefeet]

But to say that Nirvana sucked, that Cobain had no talent, or to make fun if his suicide - that just makes people look idiotic.

Nirvana sucks, Cobain had no talent (other than aiming a gun) and I'll say the same about Dave Grohl and the Foo Fighters.

[Nosaj Thing]

But to say that Nirvana sucked, that Cobain had no talent, or to make fun if his suicide - that just makes people look idiotic.

It's like you forget where you are posting, Apollo. Fanatics are weird. I never liked Nirvana, but I think Cobain had talent.

[-W.A.R-]

saying Nirvana (or any band/musician) sucks is subjective...ppl like what they like and don't like what they don't

im a mild fan of Nirvana but i can understand to some GNR fans that Nirvana might not be their cup of tea and i same goes the other way with Nirvana fans not liking GNR

[Bono]

Axl was such a sellout that wanted GNR to sound like Nirvana and PJ mixed with NIN on GNR's next releases. The guy wanted to sound cool to the kids and wasn't afraid of selling GNR's soul and trademark sound to sell more records, with grunge influences and hip hop beats, something GNR was never about. Some people were fooled into calling that "the EVOLUTION of the GNR sound", lol. The result? The pathetic Chinese Democracy, a soulless album with Axl hilariously emulating Trent Reznor and Nu Metal bands.

I don't like Nirvana, they are overrated as fuck. Kurt was not a very talented guy and a terrible guitar player. Dave Grohl is awesome.

This is the best post.

[Apollo]

But to say that Nirvana sucked, that Cobain had no talent, or to make fun if his suicide - that just makes people look idiotic.

Nirvana sucks, Cobain had no talent (other than aiming a gun) and I'll say the same about Dave Grohl and the Foo Fighters.

You've confused "my opinion" with "reality."

But making fun of a suicide? Pretty disgusting.

******

Several people on here don't actually know the definition of overrated. You not liking a band doesn't mean they are overrated. It just means that millions of people like a band you don't.

saying Nirvana (or any band/musician) sucks is subjective...ppl like what they like and don't like what they don't

im a mild fan of Nirvana but i can understand to some GNR fans that Nirvana might not be their cup of tea and i same goes the other way with Nirvana fans not liking GNR

Thank you for bringing some logic into the topic.

Edited September 10, 2015 by Apollo

[Tom2112]

Bitch move, why would you be so shook because some skinny fuckin' loser (as Axl and GnR fans concluded Kurt was) doesn't wanna play with you? Why act so fuckin' shook about it in public? Classic fuckin' insecurity case, you're in a massive fuckin' band with a massive fuckin' fanbase, no one can damage your position in regards to what you are and who you are and how people feel about you but you yourself, why go fuckin' chasing this little fuckin' band and make a point of fuckin' insulting them...for what, whats it achieve? It's like the heavyweight champ having a go at the number 8 or number 7 contender cuz he made disparaging remarks about you, a champ with class doesn't do it, he just continues on being the champ and letting the little underlings murmur on beneath him and let his record and his continuing maintainence of that record speak for itself.

The truth is those comments deeply bothered Axl and got him right at his core, because there's nothing that hurts a man like thats feelings more than being thought of as uncool, you can tell that in the way he tries (or tried back then) so hard to act cool. So what do you do? You switch it on em like 'Kurt Cobain thinks he's too cool to bring his rock n roll to you'.

The same people that he was tryna hang with and get on side with and be all buddy buddy with, once they tell him where to go he's like mocking the 'alternative' and the 'alternative lifestyle'...so you try and hang out with the cool kids but when they tell you to fuck off you run off in tears going 'i didn't wannabe a part of your stupid club ANYWAY!'

For Axl it took effort and a deliberate to push for him to become or to seem like what Kurt Cobain was effortlessly...and thats an artist. Axl had to reinvent himself to be that, to run away and hide in a studio trying to figure out a bunch of useless machinery, take all his gay glam gear off and put some glasses on and get all serious. Kurt was an artist when he was living in a furniture-less shithole making paintings and trying to catch his escaped turtles.

It's a bitch move, flat out, it's girlie, it's petty and as the bigger factor in the equation its kinda like you bringing yourself down a notch or two.

Both of them were little bitches. Also, the whole "kurt was a real artist" part? You don't think Axl was complicated and messed up before he heard Nirvana? Kurt was a musician just like any other, he wrote some great songs, some not so great songs... wanted fame, got too much and decided to take himself out of the equation. If he was honest with himself from day one and said "I want to be in the biggest band in the world" which he did, there's a good chance he'd still be around today. Kurt was a punk snob who thought it was cool to shrug off money and success because it didn't fit in with the hipster scene he originated from.

Kurt didn't kill himself because he couldn't handle fame and money. He killed himself because he was too screwed up from his childhood.

True his up bringing played a pivotal role in his death (duh!) but the meteoric rise to fame magnified everything and he couldn't handle all the pressure. Drug dependency, and depression killed Kurt... as for the depression he could have went to a therapist and worked on his demons like the rest of America. He really should have been given some sort of bodyguard / minder after his first attempt failed, Or his family should have tried to intervene with a court sanction that would have gave them temporary power over him until he was free of drugs and making positive steps to get better.

Having said all that, if he was killed like the conspiracy says then we're all wrong and he wasn't that messed up over his up bringing or suicidal (not that I necessarily go all in on that particular conspiracy).

[wasted]

Kiss' first two records sound a bit grunge.

Kurt was like Ozzy in that no bullshit taken into a dead end. Nirvana are Sabbath riffs meets Beatles and Velvet Underground. Plus Mudhoney, Sonic Youth, Pixies. Nirvana were like Oasis a few other bands had been knocking on the door but they kicked it down. By adding stronger pop sensibility they could take all these other bands to a wider audience.

Axl is like Lennon always trying to say smart things and explain things, he'a copying him or he might be a bit hyperactive (try to keep your pants on). But with Bowie's acting and changing. Theatrical sense.

[maynard]

I miss magisme making fun of wasteds posts. You guys got rid of the wrong poster.

[Johnny Drama]

Where the hell is mags?

[sliverjazz]

We all know Kurt was murdered.

[wasted]

Bitch move, why would you be so shook because some skinny fuckin' loser (as Axl and GnR fans concluded Kurt was) doesn't wanna play with you? Why act so fuckin' shook about it in public? Classic fuckin' insecurity case, you're in a massive fuckin' band with a massive fuckin' fanbase, no one can damage your position in regards to what you are and who you are and how people feel about you but you yourself, why go fuckin' chasing this little fuckin' band and make a point of fuckin' insulting them...for what, whats it achieve? It's like the heavyweight champ having a go at the number 8 or number 7 contender cuz he made disparaging remarks about you, a champ with class doesn't do it, he just continues on being the champ and letting the little underlings murmur on beneath him and let his record and his continuing maintainence of that record speak for itself.

The truth is those comments deeply bothered Axl and got him right at his core, because there's nothing that hurts a man like thats feelings more than being thought of as uncool, you can tell that in the way he tries (or tried back then) so hard to act cool. So what do you do? You switch it on em like 'Kurt Cobain thinks he's too cool to bring his rock n roll to you'.

The same people that he was tryna hang with and get on side with and be all buddy buddy with, once they tell him where to go he's like mocking the 'alternative' and the 'alternative lifestyle'...so you try and hang out with the cool kids but when they tell you to fuck off you run off in tears going 'i didn't wannabe a part of your stupid club ANYWAY!'

For Axl it took effort and a deliberate to push for him to become or to seem like what Kurt Cobain was effortlessly...and thats an artist. Axl had to reinvent himself to be that, to run away and hide in a studio trying to figure out a bunch of useless machinery, take all his gay glam gear off and put some glasses on and get all serious. Kurt was an artist when he was living in a furniture-less shithole making paintings and trying to catch his escaped turtles.

It's a bitch move, flat out, it's girlie, it's petty and as the bigger factor in the equation its kinda like you bringing yourself down a notch or two.

Both of them were little bitches. Also, the whole "kurt was a real artist" part? You don't think Axl was complicated and messed up before he heard Nirvana? Kurt was a musician just like any other, he wrote some great songs, some not so great songs... wanted fame, got too much and decided to take himself out of the equation. If he was honest with himself from day one and said "I want to be in the biggest band in the world" which he did, there's a good chance he'd still be around today. Kurt was a punk snob who thought it was cool to shrug off money and success because it didn't fit in with the hipster scene he originated from.

Kurt didn't kill himself because he couldn't handle fame and money. He killed himself because he was too screwed up from his childhood.

True his up bringing played a pivotal role in his death (duh!) but the meteoric rise to fame magnified everything and he couldn't handle all the pressure. Drug dependency, and depression killed Kurt... as for the depression he could have went to a therapist and worked on his demons like the rest of America. He really should have been given some sort of bodyguard / minder after his first attempt failed, Or his family should have tried to intervene with a court sanction that would have gave them temporary power over him until he was free of drugs and making positive steps to get better.

Having said all that, if he was killed like the conspiracy says then we're all wrong and he wasn't that messed up over his up bringing or suicidal (not that I necessarily go all in on that particular conspiracy).

I thought the movie made it clear he was bi polar. They are at higher risk of suicide anyway. Plus heroin addicts inwithdrawal want to end it all. So the odds are piling up.

One difference i noticed is that Kurt was surrounded by addicts. His wife, their nanny. He goes to rehab with other rocker addicts. He was basically just living with junkies in the end.

In some other cases theres a family around and they hire like ex cops to tie them down and follow them round.

Like Courtney said after she gave birth there was no way she wasnt going to plunge a needle in her arm. That was their lifestyle. Surrounded by this mentality how is really going to sustain anything. Hes not going to turn into Mathew McConaughy running on the beach topless.

[RichardNixon]

Axl was such a sellout that wanted GNR to sound like Nirvana and PJ mixed with NIN on GNR's next releases. The guy wanted to sound cool to the kids and wasn't afraid of selling GNR's soul and trademark sound to sell more records, with grunge influences and hip hop beats, something GNR was never about. Some people were fooled into calling that "the EVOLUTION of the GNR sound", lol. The result? The pathetic Chinese Democracy, a soulless album with Axl hilariously emulating Trent Reznor and Nu Metal bands.

I don't like Nirvana, they are overrated as fuck. Kurt was not a very talented guy and a terrible guitar player. Dave Grohl is awesome.

Chinese Democracy doesn't sound like NIN at all and there is no indication that Axl ever wanted to sound like PJ or Nirvana. Edited September 11, 2015 by RichardNixon

[maynard]

Axl was such a sellout that wanted GNR to sound like Nirvana and PJ mixed with NIN on GNR's next releases. The guy wanted to sound cool to the kids and wasn't afraid of selling GNR's soul and trademark sound to sell more records, with grunge influences and hip hop beats, something GNR was never about. Some people were fooled into calling that "the EVOLUTION of the GNR sound", lol. The result? The pathetic Chinese Democracy, a soulless album with Axl hilariously emulating Trent Reznor and Nu Metal bands.

I don't like Nirvana, they are overrated as fuck. Kurt was not a very talented guy and a terrible guitar player. Dave Grohl is awesome.

Chinese Democracy doesn't sound like NIN at all and there is no indication that Axl ever wanted to sound like PJ or Nirvana.

Not saying it does. Maybe that's why it sounds like shit. It sounds like a mess created by a hard rock singer who thought he could create "complex" music.

[RichardNixon]

In your opinion.

[Bumblefeet]

But to say that Nirvana sucked, that Cobain had no talent, or to make fun if his suicide - that just makes people look idiotic.

Nirvana sucks, Cobain had no talent (other than aiming a gun) and I'll say the same about Dave Grohl and the Foo Fighters.

You've confused "my opinion" with "reality."

But making fun of a suicide? Pretty disgusting.

Guess what? My opinion is real. That doesn't mean you have to like it, but perhaps you'll need to live with the reality that there are people who think Nirvana and Kurt are utter shit. And this has nothing to do with me liking GnR btw, back in the day when Nirvana was big, I wasn't even into GnR (Ironically I was more into Iron Maiden, that other band Axl hated lol). I hated Nirvana's music then and I still do now. Plus I tend to believe that even someone like Cobain would have more respect for someone who isn't posing to like their music and rather be hated then be accepted by the status quo based on what? Record sales? Sold out gigs? Number of instruments smashed on stage?

Also

Edited September 11, 2015 by Bumblefeet

[Russel Nash]

Corporate Rock. pffffffffffffffff

[Bono]

Kurt Cobain was a such a fucking poseur. There's rarely been a guy who preached one thing and was the complete opposite as much as he did. He wished he was everything Pearl Jam and Eddie Vedder were back in the day. Coabin and his sheep fans just had this arrogance that they were better than everyone and anything. It's the classic pseudo intellect hipster vibe. Axl was a douche for various reasons but Kurt was equally a douche for various other reasons.

[Russel Nash]

Kurt Cobain was a such a fucking poseur. There's rarely been a guy who preached one thing and was the complete opposite as much as he did. He wished he was everything Pearl Jam and Eddie Vedder were back in the day. Coabin and his sheep fans just had this arrogance that they were better than everyone and anything. It's the classic pseudo intellect hipster vibe. Axl was a douche for various reasons but Kurt was equally a douche for various other reasons.

You seem to take everything to one extreme or the other, no grey in your opinions. But i'll agree on some on this.

As Wanted stated, Kurt put himself in a cage after all those corporate rock sucks etc. Nowhere to go then, since you are on a corporation. Pearl Jam was/still the real deal.

I used to like Nirvana, but got really old and boring real quick, even in the 90's. Still think GNR was the last "classic" band.

[Tom2112]

Axl was such a sellout that wanted GNR to sound like Nirvana and PJ mixed with NIN on GNR's next releases. The guy wanted to sound cool to the kids and wasn't afraid of selling GNR's soul and trademark sound to sell more records, with grunge influences and hip hop beats, something GNR was never about. Some people were fooled into calling that "the EVOLUTION of the GNR sound", lol. The result? The pathetic Chinese Democracy, a soulless album with Axl hilariously emulating Trent Reznor and Nu Metal bands.

I don't like Nirvana, they are overrated as fuck. Kurt was not a very talented guy and a terrible guitar player. Dave Grohl is awesome.

Chinese Democracy doesn't sound like NIN at all and there is no indication that Axl ever wanted to sound like PJ or Nirvana.

Nu metal and Trent Reznor? yeh, the only thing that sounds like is all the hype and rumour before the album was actually released... Further evidence that people run their mouths without actually giving the album a fair spin.

[Bono]

Axl was such a sellout that wanted GNR to sound like Nirvana and PJ mixed with NIN on GNR's next releases. The guy wanted to sound cool to the kids and wasn't afraid of selling GNR's soul and trademark sound to sell more records, with grunge influences and hip hop beats, something GNR was never about. Some people were fooled into calling that "the EVOLUTION of the GNR sound", lol. The result? The pathetic Chinese Democracy, a soulless album with Axl hilariously emulating Trent Reznor and Nu Metal bands.

I don't like Nirvana, they are overrated as fuck. Kurt was not a very talented guy and a terrible guitar player. Dave Grohl is awesome.

Chinese Democracy doesn't sound like NIN at all and there is no indication that Axl ever wanted to sound like PJ or Nirvana.

Nu metal and Trent Reznor? yeh, the only thing that sounds like is all the hype and rumour before the album was actually released... Further evidence that people run their mouths without actually giving the album a fair spin.

Yeah cause NOBODY on these sites have given the album a fair spin. Don't you find it odd that half(probably way more)of the GnR hardcore fanbse really don't like CD? Do you really think these people dismissed the album on hype and rumors and didn't give it a fair chance?

[wasted]

A decade of my world.

[Tom2112]

Axl was such a sellout that wanted GNR to sound like Nirvana and PJ mixed with NIN on GNR's next releases. The guy wanted to sound cool to the kids and wasn't afraid of selling GNR's soul and trademark sound to sell more records, with grunge influences and hip hop beats, something GNR was never about. Some people were fooled into calling that "the EVOLUTION of the GNR sound", lol. The result? The pathetic Chinese Democracy, a soulless album with Axl hilariously emulating Trent Reznor and Nu Metal bands.

I don't like Nirvana, they are overrated as fuck. Kurt was not a very talented guy and a terrible guitar player. Dave Grohl is awesome.

Chinese Democracy doesn't sound like NIN at all and there is no indication that Axl ever wanted to sound like PJ or Nirvana.

Nu metal and Trent Reznor? yeh, the only thing that sounds like is all the hype and rumour before the album was actually released... Further evidence that people run their mouths without actually giving the album a fair spin.

Yeah cause NOBODY on these sites have given the album a fair spin. Don't you find it odd that half(probably way more)of the GnR hardcore fanbse really don't like CD? Do you really think these people dismissed the album on hype and rumors and didn't give it a fair chance?

Did I say that nobody gave it a fair spin? NO! I said some people fire off opinions based on the hype of the album, they haven't really got stuck into the album... they have read all the howard hughes stories and rumours of the supposed direction Chinese was supposed to be going in. Anyone thinking CD is trent reznor clone album is gonna be very disappointed, because it's pretty much a rock album with a few twists here and there...

How can you say CD sounds like Trent Reznor? because it uses samples? I listen to NIN and I don't hear much cross over, at a push, parts of Shacklers, but really?. And Nu metal? I guess that's down to what you consider nu metal, and what you consider plain old hard rock / metal.

I consider nu-metal to be gtrs downtuned within an inch of their life, a shitty breakdown, a rap section.... when you run what is nu metal against CD you're not ticking a lot of those boxes. Shacklers and If The world use drop tunings (some of the guitars) and neither of them are nu metal.

And to answer your question, I don't think it's odd that a lot of hardcore fans don't like the record. It's just like any other band, when the sound changes you lose certain fans and gain others. Every major band has faced this, GnR faced it with the illusions albums, Metallica with Ride the lightning (because of fade to black), again with everything after 1988. A large percentage of fans want bands to stay in one particular style and not mess around with others. My opinion is simple, I like when bands explore different styles, some of my favourite metallica songs are from the Load period, however! sometimes bands change and they lose that specific thing that I liked about them and it's just not the same anymore (I assume that's what happened for a lot of the hardcore guns fans).

The hardcores (not all) generally want the same album with a few variations on repeat, some bands are lucky and their audience lets them go in whatever direction they choose. Most fans think they should have a say in what direction the band goes... I know what I would like to hear from a guns album, CD was somewhat of a surprise but I gave it a listen and I found that I liked the majority of the record (not all of it).

Some "hardcore" fans would not be happy with any release, even if the band returned to their roots and released what the majority consider a great album. Take for example VH - a different kind of truth, a good album, definitely a great comeback! but a lot of fans complained, because of this reason and that reason, even though they almost had a classic line up album and a 7.5 / 8 out of ten record from their favourite band... most hardcores dream scenario.

[RichardNixon]

I was listening to Chinese Democracy last night and trying to figure out where people are hearing NIN, Pearl Jam, etc. The closest it comes to sounding remotely like Nine Inch Nails is "Shackler's Revenge," where there are some industrial flourishes. It's a guitar rock album, a big, bloated, but awesome, guitar rock album. No traces of Pearl Jam, Nirvana, etc. either.

[Forsaken]

So much blind hatred and ignorance in this thread that it is unbelievable and laughable