Rate Chinese

[SoulMonster]

CD was the 14th most sold record in 2008 globally. And it was released in November that year (!). Does that make it popular? Maybe not today, it's been 7 years now, and music is a fleeting thing.

[BreakDown2014]

CD isn't an album made for the standard listener.

it really doesn't sound at all like conventional rock.

Complete bullshit.

It'd be great if you tried to develop your point a little more. Please feel free to do so

[Rustycage]

When you're still arguing 7 years later trying to prove CD wasn't a flop compared to the price tag and the band releasing it, that's sad.

"Let's compare it to Madonna but not... ya know... Guns N Roses"

[Lies They Tell]

Madonna WAS popular. This isn't the 80's and 90's anymore.

The word popular has a broad meaning because it is a broad world. When you minimize the criteria to make something appear popular, it isn't exactly helpful to your cause is it?

WTF is "moderately popular?"

CD probably has more listens than MC Hammer. Does that mean that because MC Hammer was once popular that it matters?

Nobody knows about MC Hammer anymore. Madonna on the other hand is still one of the most famous people on the planet. You still read about her in the newspapers quite often. Of course she's no Lady Gaga or Rihanna, but comparing her to MC Hammer is pretty far fetched. I don't know, it's strange to talk to you if you don't even grasp the meaning of "moderately popular". I guess when we talk about music, moderately popular means that it's popular enough that you're not surprised if someone listens to it. But on the other hand you're not surprised if someone hasn't heard it either. It's kinda popular, but not so popular that everyone knows it. I'm not surprised if a friend of mine listens to Madonna. Neither am I surprised if some of my friends listen to Chinese Democracy. On the other hand I'm not surprised either, if they haven't even heard the latest Madonna album or the latest GNR album. Their popular but not THAT popular. That's what I mean with the term "moderately popular".

Hopefully you somewhat got the idea.

[maynard]

CD isn't an album made for the standard listener.

it really doesn't sound at all like conventional rock.

Complete bullshit.

It'd be great if you tried to develop your point a little more. Please feel free to do so

Chinese Democracy follows the trend of most of rock albums from the 2000s. You have the drop D riffs + hip hop beats Linkin Park, Limp Bizkit and other bands overused in the beginning of the decade. You have the piano ballads which aren't by no means complex or avant-garde. Shredding guitars? Any rock fan is used to fast solos, the weird noises are, again, nothing new... Wes Borland made them extremely popular with Limp Bizkit. The rock audience by 2008 was very used to the styles Axl emulated in CD.

Now the songs themselves, they all follow the popular rock structure, except for those stupid ambient intros here and there. The choruses are there, they are not memorable but they are there. CD's personnel was incompetent to turn those ideas into likeable or relatable songs.

Does it sound completely different from Slash's albums for example? Yes, because Slash plays classic hard rock.

Conventional 2000s rock? Totally. Most nu metal and alternative rock bands (aka conventional rock of last decade) did what Axl tried to do way before him.

Axl's intentions were good, I'm sure that in his head he was doing something really cool. If I had his studio and employees I would do the same thing. Too bad he's just a singer from the 80s, not some kind of music genius able to orchestrate a group of musicians and achieve something amazing. Axl is a talented singer and NOTHING ELSE.

Edited September 16, 2015 by maynard

[Lies They Tell]

When you're still arguing 7 years later trying to prove CD wasn't a flop compared to the price tag and the band releasing it, that's sad.

"Let's compare it to Madonna but not... ya know... Guns N Roses"

Now you're being weird. I didn't compare it to Madonna only. I compared it to old GNR too. Go read my original post if you're that forgetful. CD is more popular than The Spaghetti Incident and about as popular as GNR Lies. That's what I said in the same post when I compared it to Madonna too. Now do you want me to repeat it again?

[TupacShakur]

i would rate chinese democracy 10/10 its the best gn'r album ever! it has such hits as The Blues and There was a time so go buy it now!

[Apollo]

9/10 Absolutely phenomenal record that never got its justice

How did it never get its justice?

Lack of promotion by the band and Axl.

True. Axl didn't do the interview and talk show route.

But you are implying, by your post, that people didn't know about it. That just doesn't hold water.

CD was the most anticipated album of all time. CD was a pop reference punch line. That in itself shows you just how many people out there KNEW about it.

The label did more promotion for CD than 99.9% of albums receive. I saw tv commercials. And ads in magazines and newspapers.

The DR Pepper promotion.

CD had a song on one of the biggest summer blockbusters of the year. CD had a song on the most popular video game of the year.

They streamed the album on MySpace and broke records with something like 20 million listens.

To claim that lack of promotion doomed the album. Holy crap. CD probably received more promotion than any album released in the 2000-2010 decade.

Anybody that would buy a GnR album KNEW about the release of CD.

No Axl Rose fan - one who would spend 15 bucks to buy a GnR cd - woke up in 2011 and went "what???? GnR released Chinese Democracy three years ago??? I had no idea."

The album wouldn't have sold a million more copies if Axl had went on David Letterman.

GnR fans chose to buy or not.

Casual rock fans steal, I mean download for free, songs and albums by bands they are just casual fans of.

In response to your "But you are implying, by your post, that people didn't know about it. That just doesn't hold water." question, NO. I wasn't implying that. If you'd have bothered to quote me entirely I also spoke about the reviews and the whole "Chinese Democracy" joke about it never getting released and having cost a gazillion dollars to produce.

In regards to had Axl done any promotion would it have sold better? A million more copies perhaps not, but it would have sold more. Especially given Guns weren't out promoting it on tour and Axl could have gone on any show and promote it. To me it makes zero sense he would refuse to do any promotion for the release of his album, yet for a Vegas residency he'll go on Kimmel's show... WTF.

So you actually think there were 100s of thousand GnR fans who didn't buy CD because they didn't see Axl on David Letterman?

But wouldn't those fans, ago apparently didn't have the internet in 2008, eventually learn that GnR released CD? Seeing that the band was touring and since Axl and other band members strayed doing lots of interviews.

Wouldn't those people have bought the album at a layer date? You are qualifying them as people who would have bought the album if they had known about it in 2008. There is no way a big time fan of a band wouldn't know in 2012 or 2015 that GnR had released an album

Bottom line. Anybody who "would" spend the money to buy the album - bought the album. There aren't 500,000 people out there willing to buy a GnR album that aren't aware of CD in 2015.

Lol. You complain that I didn't address your entire post. Then you just pick and choose what you want from my response. Funny.

CD might have received more publicity than any album in history. To say that sales were hampered because Axl didn't promote it......that's just people making excuses for their favorite singer.

[Apollo]

CD isn't an album made for the standard listener.

it really doesn't sound at all like conventional rock.

Complete bullshit.

It'd be great if you tried to develop your point a little more. Please feel free to do so

You are right Your post does deserve a more in depth response. So let me help out the guy who replied to you

Complete bullshit. One of the worst posts posted here in 2015. Standard listener? Only a complete arrogant pretentious hipster douchebag would say something like that.

Is that better?

[Rustycage]

When you're still arguing 7 years later trying to prove CD wasn't a flop compared to the price tag and the band releasing it, that's sad.

"Let's compare it to Madonna but not... ya know... Guns N Roses"

Now you're being weird. I didn't compare it to Madonna only. I compared it to old GNR too. Go read my original post if you're that forgetful. CD is more popular than The Spaghetti Incident and about as popular as GNR Lies. That's what I said in the same post when I compared it to Madonna too. Now do you want me to repeat it again?

The Spaghetti Incident is a cover album. Lies had actual hit songs. You're hilariously trying to claim anything from CD or the album itself holds a candle to Lies?

[Lies They Tell]

When you're still arguing 7 years later trying to prove CD wasn't a flop compared to the price tag and the band releasing it, that's sad.

"Let's compare it to Madonna but not... ya know... Guns N Roses"

Now you're being weird. I didn't compare it to Madonna only. I compared it to old GNR too. Go read my original post if you're that forgetful. CD is more popular than The Spaghetti Incident and about as popular as GNR Lies. That's what I said in the same post when I compared it to Madonna too. Now do you want me to repeat it again?

The Spaghetti Incident is a cover album. Lies had actual hit songs. You're hilariously trying to claim anything from CD or the album itself holds a candle to Lies?

Again, it's not me making the claim. It's the freaking Spotify. Reckless Life, Nice Boys and Move To The City are all less popular tracks than anything on CD. Patience is more popular than anything on CD. Used To Love Her, You're Crazy and One in A Million are all about as popular as Chinese, Shacklers, Better, SOD, ITW, TWAT Catcher and TIL. Mama Kin is about as popular as Scraped, Riad, Sorry, Madagascar and Prostitute.

So yeah, Lies has one song that's more popular and three songs that are less popular than CD songs. So as an album it's about as popular as CD. I'm just telling the statistics.

[BreakDown2014]

CD isn't an album made for the standard listener.

it really doesn't sound at all like conventional rock.

Complete bullshit.

It'd be great if you tried to develop your point a little more. Please feel free to do so

You are right Your post does deserve a more in depth response. So let me help out the guy who replied to you

Complete bullshit. One of the worst posts posted here in 2015. Standard listener? Only a complete arrogant pretentious hipster douchebag would say something like that.

Is that better?

Wow.

I highly respect Maynard and just wanted to give him the chance to explain his own opinion. He did, and even convinced me at some point. So I thank him for taking my post seriously.

I won't argue with you Apollo, I am indeed a pretentious hipster douchebag.

[Rustycage]

When you're still arguing 7 years later trying to prove CD wasn't a flop compared to the price tag and the band releasing it, that's sad.

"Let's compare it to Madonna but not... ya know... Guns N Roses"

Now you're being weird. I didn't compare it to Madonna only. I compared it to old GNR too. Go read my original post if you're that forgetful. CD is more popular than The Spaghetti Incident and about as popular as GNR Lies. That's what I said in the same post when I compared it to Madonna too. Now do you want me to repeat it again?

The Spaghetti Incident is a cover album. Lies had actual hit songs. You're hilariously trying to claim anything from CD or the album itself holds a candle to Lies?

Again, it's not me making the claim. It's the freaking Spotify. Reckless Life, Nice Boys and Move To The City are all less popular tracks than anything on CD. Patience is more popular than anything on CD. Used To Love Her, You're Crazy and One in A Million are all about as popular as Chinese, Shacklers, Better, SOD, ITW, TWAT Catcher and TIL. Mama Kin is about as popular as Scraped, Riad, Sorry, Madagascar and Prostitute.

So yeah, Lies has one song that's more popular and three songs that are less popular than CD songs. So as an album it's about as popular as CD. I'm just telling the statistics.

[BreakDown2014]

When you're still arguing 7 years later trying to prove CD wasn't a flop compared to the price tag and the band releasing it, that's sad.

"Let's compare it to Madonna but not... ya know... Guns N Roses"

Now you're being weird. I didn't compare it to Madonna only. I compared it to old GNR too. Go read my original post if you're that forgetful. CD is more popular than The Spaghetti Incident and about as popular as GNR Lies. That's what I said in the same post when I compared it to Madonna too. Now do you want me to repeat it again?

The Spaghetti Incident is a cover album. Lies had actual hit songs. You're hilariously trying to claim anything from CD or the album itself holds a candle to Lies?

Again, it's not me making the claim. It's the freaking Spotify. Reckless Life, Nice Boys and Move To The City are all less popular tracks than anything on CD. Patience is more popular than anything on CD. Used To Love Her, You're Crazy and One in A Million are all about as popular as Chinese, Shacklers, Better, SOD, ITW, TWAT Catcher and TIL. Mama Kin is about as popular as Scraped, Riad, Sorry, Madagascar and Prostitute.

So yeah, Lies has one song that's more popular and three songs that are less popular than CD songs. So as an album it's about as popular as CD. I'm just telling the statistics.

Even if it seems kind of ridiculous stating Spotify statistics, nowadays I think Spotify plays and Youtube views are far more accurate ways to measure popularity than album sales

This I Love is a well known song as far as I'm concerned, but indeed, even if it is the most popular song on CD, it isn't even close to Patience or Used to Love Her in terms of popularity

[Len Cnut]

I don't think it's a bad album, as in shite, as in unlistenable, it's just not up to par for a GnR album, for the standard they set and for the way i felt about their music back when there was a proper GnR this falls WAY short. To be honest the songs suffer as a result of having been released as a GnR album, had Axl just made this his fuckin' solo album i think it'd get a lot more respect. I don't think there's ANYTHING Axl could've done to stop this album being a let down as long as he was intent on releasing it as a GnR album.

GnR, just like NWA or The Stones or The Sex Pistols (not suggesting those are on a even footing by the way) are as much to do with this idea in peoples heads about 'the most dangerous band in the world' as they are to do with music. The only reason The Stones get away with getting old on record because they did it gradually, they were constantly releasing product so it kind of crept up on ya, you can't just stop and go from this band of young lads, late 20s early 30s...and then suddenly come back pushing fuckin' 50 and expect it to be a seamless thing, the gulf in the mind of your audience from these young dangerous lairy lads making this coarse rock n roll music to these sort of old knackers padding out their pensions is not one easily bridged. In fact it's impossible to be bridged. It's like if The Sex Pistols had come back and released another album in 1996, it would've got panned. It's like The Stooges and their new latest album, or their first comeback album, it was never gonna approach that original output, it's just they get an easier ride because they don't carry that extra weight of '15 years in the making'.

There is nothing Axl could've done, for as long as he was intent on putting this out as a GnR album, to prevent this. Quite frankly it was really unfair of him too. There's one thing being single minded and there's another thing being stupid because no matter WHAT had come out it was never gonna get respect, it weren't fair on the songs (some of which are good), it weren't fair on the contributors and the effort they put in, it weren't fair on himself, it weren't fair on the legacy of the old band and it weren't fair on the audience.

And I'll tell ya another thing, if they do reform and put out new material it'll be a let down too. Not quite as much as Chi Dem was for the above mentioned reasons but it will be a let down, you simply can't recapture what that old thing was because they're not those people anymore, no one is, not after that length of time, you have to've grown together and maintained and nurtured that chemistry, when you have that chemistry it's a REALLY REALLY precious thing and you should do everything and anything you can to preserve it because it is the difference between you ending up some Joe Schmo or you being part of something historic, it doesn't just sit there waiting for you to get over your fuckin' ego and go back in the same room with those people again, it never has and never will, these things are as much to do with a specific time in peoples lives as it is to do with the people themselves.

[Rustycage]

When you're still arguing 7 years later trying to prove CD wasn't a flop compared to the price tag and the band releasing it, that's sad.

"Let's compare it to Madonna but not... ya know... Guns N Roses"

Now you're being weird. I didn't compare it to Madonna only. I compared it to old GNR too. Go read my original post if you're that forgetful. CD is more popular than The Spaghetti Incident and about as popular as GNR Lies. That's what I said in the same post when I compared it to Madonna too. Now do you want me to repeat it again?

The Spaghetti Incident is a cover album. Lies had actual hit songs. You're hilariously trying to claim anything from CD or the album itself holds a candle to Lies?

Again, it's not me making the claim. It's the freaking Spotify. Reckless Life, Nice Boys and Move To The City are all less popular tracks than anything on CD. Patience is more popular than anything on CD. Used To Love Her, You're Crazy and One in A Million are all about as popular as Chinese, Shacklers, Better, SOD, ITW, TWAT Catcher and TIL. Mama Kin is about as popular as Scraped, Riad, Sorry, Madagascar and Prostitute.

So yeah, Lies has one song that's more popular and three songs that are less popular than CD songs. So as an album it's about as popular as CD. I'm just telling the statistics.

Even if it seems kind of ridiculous stating Spotify statistics, nowadays I think Spotify plays and Youtube views are far more accurate ways to measure popularity than album sales

This I Love is a well known song as far as I'm concerned, but indeed, even if it is the most popular song on CD, it isn't even close to Patience or Used to Love Her in terms of popularity

I disagree. People can repeatedly listen to a song or album. They can repeatedly watch youtube videos. That's nowhere as accurate as sales since people don't repeatedly buy albums. People also inflate youtube views.

Popularity by actual downloads instead of streams maybe or by purchases but to think everyone is using spotify and that you could ever gauge true popularity by it is ridiculous. No one can say for what reason someone even listened to the song? Simple curiosity? To laugh? To cry? This is the notorious Chinese Democracy we're talking about. Not some unknown demo that is blowing up out of nowhere.

Comparing it to a new Madonna album or even to past GNR releases and saying it is more popular than Lies is nuckin futs. TSI and Lies actually SOLD. CD was platinum out of the gate with the Best Buy deal and underachieved. The crowds aren't lining up to see nugnr and hear cd material. So let's just point to spotify as some sort of gauge? please...

Some people need to let it go. The album is not some misunderstood masterpiece that never got a chance. Maybe it's just not that good!

Edited September 16, 2015 by Rustycage

[Lies They Tell]

When you're still arguing 7 years later trying to prove CD wasn't a flop compared to the price tag and the band releasing it, that's sad.

"Let's compare it to Madonna but not... ya know... Guns N Roses"

Now you're being weird. I didn't compare it to Madonna only. I compared it to old GNR too. Go read my original post if you're that forgetful. CD is more popular than The Spaghetti Incident and about as popular as GNR Lies. That's what I said in the same post when I compared it to Madonna too. Now do you want me to repeat it again?

The Spaghetti Incident is a cover album. Lies had actual hit songs. You're hilariously trying to claim anything from CD or the album itself holds a candle to Lies?

Again, it's not me making the claim. It's the freaking Spotify. Reckless Life, Nice Boys and Move To The City are all less popular tracks than anything on CD. Patience is more popular than anything on CD. Used To Love Her, You're Crazy and One in A Million are all about as popular as Chinese, Shacklers, Better, SOD, ITW, TWAT Catcher and TIL. Mama Kin is about as popular as Scraped, Riad, Sorry, Madagascar and Prostitute.

So yeah, Lies has one song that's more popular and three songs that are less popular than CD songs. So as an album it's about as popular as CD. I'm just telling the statistics.

Even if it seems kind of ridiculous stating Spotify statistics, nowadays I think Spotify plays and Youtube views are far more accurate ways to measure popularity than album sales

This I Love is a well known song as far as I'm concerned, but indeed, even if it is the most popular song on CD, it isn't even close to Patience or Used to Love Her in terms of popularity

Thanks man! Good to see someone who's capable of giving rational arguments instead of answering with emojis like a teenage girl or something. Obviously you hear Used To Love Her on the radio more than anything from CD even though on Spotify statistics it's about as popular as most of the CD songs. My point is that CD is nowhere near as unpopular as some think it is. Reckless Life, Nice Boys and Move To The City are listened to far less than any track from CD, according to Spotify. It is how it is. Statistics don't lie.

I disagree. People can repeatedly listen to a song or album. They can repeatedly watch youtube videos. That's nowhere as accurate as sales since people don't repeatedly buy albums.

Popularity by actual downloads instead of streams maybe or by purchases but to think everyone is using spotify and that you could ever gauge true popularity by it is ridiculous. No one can say for what reason someone even listened to the song? Simple curiosity? To laugh? To cry? This is the notorious Chinese Democracy we're talking about. Not some unknown demo that is blowing up out of nowhere.

Comparing it to a new Madonna album or even to past GNR releases and saying it is more popular than Lies is nuckin futs. TSI and Lies actually SOLD. CD was platinum out of the gate with the Best Buy deal and underachieved. The crowds aren't lining up to see nugnr and hear cd material. So let's just point to spotify as some sort of gauge? please...

Some people need to let it go. The album is not some misunderstood masterpiece that never got a chance. Maybe it's just not that good!

If people listen to a song repeatedly, it means that the song is popular. Comparing album sales is very old fashioned, cause very few people even buy albums these days. Besides album sales don't tell if people actually listen to the album. They might just buy it and never listen to it more than once. Spotify plays on the other hand measure how much people actually listen to the album. That's why it's a far better way to measure popularity in my opinion.

You're arguments don't make much sense. No one can say for what ever reason someone buys an album either. Simple curiosity? To laugh? To cry? Nobody knows. And it doesn't matter. If many people buy it, that means it's popular. Likewise, if many people stream it, that means it's popular.

[Rustycage]

No one is lining up to hear nugnr play CD. No one cared to buy it and it ended up in dollar stores. It wasn't very popular on itunes. But sure, let's use Spotify as the gauge to declare CD to be popular. What a stupid fucking argument.

[Lies They Tell]

No one is lining up to hear nugnr play CD. No one cared to buy it and it ended up in dollar stores. It wasn't very popular on itunes. But sure, let's use Spotify as the gauge to declare CD to be popular. What a stupid fucking argument.

Difference between me and you is that I'm talking about facts, you're talking about what ever you want to believe in. Fact is that people line up to hear GNR. You don't know why they line up. I know that I would have been disappointed if they hadn't played CD stuff. But the bottom line is that neither of us know why they line up so you can't say it as a fact that their not interested to hear CD stuff. Spotify statistics are a fact and that doesn't change no matter how much you want to downplay it.

[maynard]

No one is lining up to hear nugnr play CD. No one cared to buy it and it ended up in dollar stores. It wasn't very popular on itunes. But sure, let's use Spotify as the gauge to declare CD to be popular. What a stupid fucking argument.

You don't know why they line up.

Yes he does. You do too. I know as well. Two of us are not lying to ourselves. One is. It's you.

[Tom2112]

I'd rate it same regardless of if it was solo Axl or Gnr album. I think it's a solid 7, but I can easily listen to the whole thing all the way through, even the weaker songs (although I usually skip, Scraped, rhiad, Catcher... yes, catcher! and IRS). As far as where I place this on how often I listen to it over the other Guns albums, this is top of the list beating UYI by a hair.

[J Dog]

7 or so. Not bad, not classic, it's good.

[Estranged Coma]

Suck it you thread derailers with your Madonna hate/love and popularity contest.

Who cares if it dudnt sell shit in 2008 when no one even buys albums anymore this isn't justin bieber we are talking about.

[Mr. Dude]

When its all said and done I think it will (and does) merit serious artistic consideration amongst such albums as Queen II, Physical Graffiti, The Wall, and No Code. Basically, its Axl's Zuma.

[Bobbo]

I know I've said this before, but anybody rating this 8-10 have to either be lying to us, themselves, or both. Of course I believe music is subjective and some people may like this album more than others for whatever reason. But I firmly believe any rational person that claims this album is Axl Rose at his best have got to be kidding themselves.

Anyways, 4/10 for me.