TB's role in a potential Reunion

[wasted]

Ain't no way CD would have sold 20 million in 1999, 2000, or any other damn year. That's AFD level right there and it wasn't going to happen regardless of which year it came out, much less when it did come out 8 years too late. By 1999 people had come to accept that GN'R was Slash just as much as Axl. It was never going to happen without the core duo.

Not 20 mil in the US. Worldwide. I think the target for UYI was 35 mil worldwide. For CD 5mil in the US in 1999 seems possible. Then 5 mil europe, 5 mil rest of world.

But label according Zutaut thought there was no hit single.

I think the type of record they got from Beavan scared them a little. But in 2000 they were still confident enough to put 10 mil into rerecording with RTB.

I think theres a difference between what discerning GNR rock fans think and what Jimmy and Interscope were thinking in 2000. Not many were saying you need Slash, there was money in finishing CD and getting it out.

The funny thing is Silkworms single and CD in 1999 would have made more money than the 14 mil it made with BB in 2008. 5 mil sales in the US in 1999 would be easy, thats 50 mil for label.

But the CD that was released is probably a way better record. Beavan meets RTB meets Constanzo with This I Love included. With Ron adding more rock n roll rhythmn parts. Beavan prob had energy, RTB too much epic instrumentation, Constanzo seem to oversee some of the more well crafted songs.

If in Axl's mind CD was really the last album then it really worked out. But if you want success and money then dropping a succession of alright albums works better.

Edited October 30, 2015 by wasted

[Apollo]

without beta, axl wouldnt be here anymore, and we wouldn't all be here discussing a possible reunion anyway.

she only, what? saved our hero? what a wench she is...

someone should give that beta lad a medal

What do you mean by "Axl wouldn't be here anymore"? That without Beta, Axl, the little coward, would have killed himself years ago? I highly doubt it.

And whoever considers an allegedly women beater as a hero, should work on their low self-esteem.

rock in rio 2001, axl's words: he wouldnt be there if it were not for beta. i assume he's saying he would be dead if it wasnt for her. how he would have died, is anyone's guess. what matters is, in some way of another she was responsible for his survival. wether "the little coward" would have killed himself or not, i dont know. i only know what axl said on that day.

allegedly he was a woman beater, but who made you or anyone else judge and jury in this case? erin crushed axl's ball sack, so who's right or wrong? i sure as hell dont know nor do i have any interest in analysing axl"s tumultuous love life.

Soul can you interpret this for the rest of us?

*****

Action, four different women sued or reported him as being physically abusive towards them. I just read Stephen Pearcy's book and he says he went to a party and saw Axl punch Stephanie in the face. Axl ended up paying 1.5 million dollars to Erin/Stephanie for them to drop their cases against him.

Anybody who isn't as biased towards Axl as you are, can look back and make a pretty confident conclusion on what happened back then. But instead of looking silly by denying it, why not just realize that it happened 20-30 years ago, and that he probably has grown and matured since then, and is living a very different lifestyle now. None of us are the same people we were at 22 years old.

[bacardimayne]

erin crushed axl's ball sack

what the fuck

[tomfriend]

So that's where the Mickey voice came from. Now it all adds up.

[Nosaj Thing]

rock in rio 2001, axl's words: he wouldnt be there if it were not for beta. i assume he's saying he would be dead if it wasnt for her. how he would have died, is anyone's guess.

Anyone's guess? Not really -- unless you want to consider the possibility of Beta saving him from a car accident or being eaten alive by sharks. If you want to consider the "I wouldn't be here" statement as something related to his death, the only possibility is suicide.

what matters is, in some way of another she was responsible for his survival. wether "the little coward" would have killed himself or not, i dont know.

Again, that's your own assumption from his speech. I thought that he said that because at some point in his life he wanted to give up and disappear from the music world.

As for my "little coward" comment, yeah, I think that suicide is a solution for cowards. Do I think Axl wanted to kill himself? Not really. I do believe he was very depressed at some point in his life but not the point of committing suicide.

i only know what axl said on that day.

You know what Axl said, it's just that your interpretation of what he said is wrong.

allegedly he was a woman beater, but who made you or anyone else judge and jury in this case? erin crushed axl's ball sack, so who's right or wrong? i sure as hell dont know nor do i have any interest in analysing axl"s tumultuous love life.

Not woman, women. I'm not judge or jury but I know that it is a fact that he had to pay millions to both wives. An innocent man never has to pay anything to resolve their issues.

I would never consider a women beater my personal hero and those who do, should really feel ashamed of themselves and their mediocre lives.

[tomfriend]

So should those that believe suicide is 'for cowards' and seemingly have no comprehension of what mental illness is, particularly in an era when the physically observable effects of depression have been studied and proven.

Someone who does not suffer from depression calling somebody who does a 'coward' is no less offensive and ignorant than calling someone wheelchair bound lazy or someone with learning disabilities 'retard'.

Edited October 30, 2015 by tomfriend

[Nosaj Thing]

Someone who does not suffer from depression calling somebody who does a 'coward'

Where did I say this? How many people with depression kill themselves and how many battle and struggle with their illness until they successfully defeat it? I don't know if it's the way you worded your post or something else, but depression does not always lead to suicide and I never called depressed people cowards.

[tomfriend]

Someone who does not suffer from depression calling somebody who does a 'coward'

Where did I say this? How many people with depression kill themselves and how many battle and struggle with their illness until they successfully defeat it?

Roughly the same amount of people who defeat or die from cancer. Depends on the aggressiveness and severity of their illness.

Also don't play the "where did I say this" when you know you just did. I think it can pretty much be a foregone conclusion that 9 times out of 10 someone who commits suicide is suffering from depression.

Edited October 31, 2015 by tomfriend

[action]

without beta, axl wouldnt be here anymore, and we wouldn't all be here discussing a possible reunion anyway.

she only, what? saved our hero? what a wench she is...

someone should give that beta lad a medal

What do you mean by "Axl wouldn't be here anymore"? That without Beta, Axl, the little coward, would have killed himself years ago? I highly doubt it.

And whoever considers an allegedly women beater as a hero, should work on their low self-esteem.

rock in rio 2001, axl's words: he wouldnt be there if it were not for beta. i assume he's saying he would be dead if it wasnt for her. how he would have died, is anyone's guess. what matters is, in some way of another she was responsible for his survival. wether "the little coward" would have killed himself or not, i dont know. i only know what axl said on that day.

allegedly he was a woman beater, but who made you or anyone else judge and jury in this case? erin crushed axl's ball sack, so who's right or wrong? i sure as hell dont know nor do i have any interest in analysing axl"s tumultuous love life.

Soul can you interpret this for the rest of us?

*****

Action, four different women sued or reported him as being physically abusive towards them. I just read Stephen Pearcy's book and he says he went to a party and saw Axl punch Stephanie in the face. Axl ended up paying 1.5 million dollars to Erin/Stephanie for them to drop their cases against him.

Anybody who isn't as biased towards Axl as you are, can look back and make a pretty confident conclusion on what happened back then. But instead of looking silly by denying it, why not just realize that it happened 20-30 years ago, and that he probably has grown and matured since then, and is living a very different lifestyle now. None of us are the same people we were at 22 years old.

like i said, allegedly he was a women beater. considering the different accounts of women who claim to have been beaten by him, we have a good idea of what happened, but since:

a) he was not found guilty in court

b) as you say, since then there have been no new cases of domestic abuse

c) he seems to be nice to beta who is a woman too

d) it's really none of my business

i just find enjoyment in the music and take it from there

[SoulMonster]

I'm not judge or jury but I know that it is a fact that he had to pay millions to both wives. An innocent man never has to pay anything to resolve their issues.

Also, do you have a source for "millions"?

[Nosaj Thing]

Roughly the same amount of people who defeat or die from cancer. Depends on the aggressiveness and severity of their illness.

Also don't play the "where did I say this" when you know you just did. I think it can pretty much be a foregone conclusion that 9 times out of 10 someone who commits suicide is suffering from depression.

When I asked how many people with depression kill themselves and how many battle and struggle with their illness, I wasn't asking for a comparison with other illnesses but instead, a rate between those who die by their own hands and those who decide to stay and fight until they defeat depression.

And I'm not playing anything here. I just don't think I said that or maybe it was the way I wrote it? In my post my intention was never to call depressed people cowards.

like i said, allegedly he was a women beater. considering the different accounts of women who claim to have been beaten by him, we have a good idea of what happened, but since:

a) he was not found guilty in court

b) as you say, since then there have been no new cases of domestic abuse

c) he seems to be nice to beta who is a woman too

d) it's really none of my business

i just find enjoyment in the music and take it from there

He had to pay money to Erin and Stephanie for them to drop the case. Why would he do that if he was innocent?

And I remember I read that he kicked Beta out of his mansion once. I'm not sure if it was a rumor or if it was confirmed but I definitely read it here, in this forum.

[SoulMonster]

He had to pay money to Erin and Stephanie for them to drop the case. Why would he do that if he was innocent?

You're not joking?

Innocent people may seek settlement when they fear the outcome of a court case, when the expenses of a court case is higher than the settlement, when the media attention of a curt case is more devastating than a settlement, when a courtcase will result in certain facts being disclosed to the public (settlement often allows more secrecy), etc.

NOT saying Axl was innocent, just finding it funny how people quick to speak of "facts" often are so ignorant about the simplest things.

[Little EMO Annie]

I am always a little bit leery of people who file civil suits against celebrities for money. If somebody abused me and I wanted justice I would take them to criminal court and not civil court. I would not want their money. Only. My freedom. You can't put a price on peace of mind. I have sat on 2 juries and believe me lawyers on both sides play dirty and twist things around. Sometimes it's just easier to pay people off even if you are innocent.

[Rustycage]

Civil suits are easier to prove and don't carry the heavy burden of beyond reasonable doubt.

Chances are, you're leery of it because it's Axl.

[Little EMO Annie]

Civil suits are easier to prove and don't carry the heavy burden of beyond reasonable doubt.

Chances are, you're leery of it because it's Axl.

No I would be leery of any assault charge taken to civil court over criminal court with anybody with fame and money. Lawyers are highly paid to twist things around. And a lot of times the party with less money expects the party with money to cover their legal costs as well. Look at what that Russian whore did to Mel Gibson. The guy was hardly a saint but that ho set him up for sure. All cuz she doesn't want to get a real job.

[Rustycage]

Civil suits are easier to prove and don't carry the heavy burden of beyond reasonable doubt.

Chances are, you're leery of it because it's Axl.

No I would be leery of any assault charge taken to civil court over criminal court with anybody with fame and money. Lawyers are highly paid to twist things around. And a lot of times the party with less money expects the party with money to cover their legal costs as well. Look at what that Russian whore did to Mel Gibson. The guy was hardly a saint but that ho set him up for sure. All cuz she doesn't want to get a real job.

You do realize that the DA brings charges in criminal court and statute of limitations apply?

You see it in civil court moire because it is more relaxed with less burden.

[Little EMO Annie]

Civil suits are easier to prove and don't carry the heavy burden of beyond reasonable doubt.

Chances are, you're leery of it because it's Axl.

No I would be leery of any assault charge taken to civil court over criminal court with anybody with fame and money. Lawyers are highly paid to twist things around. And a lot of times the party with less money expects the party with money to cover their legal costs as well. Look at what that Russian whore did to Mel Gibson. The guy was hardly a saint but that ho set him up for sure. All cuz she doesn't want to get a real job.

You do realize that the DA brings charges in criminal court and statute of limitations apply?

You see it in civil court moire because it is more relaxed with less burden.

Yes. Which makes me question the integrity of the accusers and their motivations. Before they called off their divorce Stephanie Seymour and Peter Brandt were saying horrible things about each other. Supposedly she even destroyed a Kentucky Derby trophy hurling it at a piece of art in a fit of rage

[Rustycage]

Civil suits are easier to prove and don't carry the heavy burden of beyond reasonable doubt.

Chances are, you're leery of it because it's Axl.

No I would be leery of any assault charge taken to civil court over criminal court with anybody with fame and money. Lawyers are highly paid to twist things around. And a lot of times the party with less money expects the party with money to cover their legal costs as well. Look at what that Russian whore did to Mel Gibson. The guy was hardly a saint but that ho set him up for sure. All cuz she doesn't want to get a real job.

You do realize that the DA brings charges in criminal court and statute of limitations apply?

You see it in civil court moire because it is more relaxed with less burden.

Yes. Which makes me question the integrity of the accusers and their motivations. Before they called off their divorce Stephanie Seymour and Peter Brandt were saying horrible things about each other. Supposedly she even destroyed a Kentucky Derby trophy hurling it at a piece of art in a fit of rage

Which makes me question your knowledge of the system. Not everything is chosen to prosecute. Especially when years have passed and there is a very heavy cost for a minimal conviction if successful.

Again, you're only saying this because it is Axl. Period.

[Little EMO Annie]

The system is pretty fucked up. And I feel the same way about what happened to Mel Gibson, so it's not just about Axl

Edited November 1, 2015 by Little EMO Annie

[Rustycage]

The system is pretty fucked up. And I feel the same way about what happened to Mel Gibson, so it's not just about Axl

That has nothing to do with the system being fucked up. DA's being the prosecution isn't fucked up. Statute of limitations isn't fucked up. Excessive cost for the hope of a conviction of a celebrity from which they'd receive a slap on the wrist would be fucked up.

[action]

i will state here that i think woman beaters are the lowest of lowest. but of course, one hit differs from the other. it's hard to judge axl when we dont know the facts

[Rustycage]

i will state here that i think woman beaters are the lowest of lowest. but of course, one hit differs from the other. it's hard to judge axl when we dont know the facts

We know the claims, we just don't know the rebuttal from Axl. He just paid them off.

[action]

i will state here that i think woman beaters are the lowest of lowest. but of course, one hit differs from the other. it's hard to judge axl when we dont know the facts

We know the claims, we just don't know the rebuttal from Axl. He just paid them off.

a claim is not the same as a fact.

can you show me the proof that shows axl has beaten up a woman, any woman? and no, paying her off is not proof. it's not even an indication. it just means axl paid her money, so she would refrain from her claim. it's not a confession of guilt. if it were, prosecution would have an easy case in criminal court.

Edited November 1, 2015 by action

[Little EMO Annie]

i will state here that i think woman beaters are the lowest of lowest. but of course, one hit differs from the other. it's hard to judge axl when we dont know the facts

We know the claims, we just don't know the rebuttal from Axl. He just paid them off.

a claim is not the same as a fact.

can you show me the proof that shows axl has beaten up a woman, any woman? and no, paying her off is not proof. it's not even an indication. it just means axl paid her money, so she would refrain from her claim. it's not a confession of guilt. if it were, prosecution would have an easy case in criminal court.

Exactly.

[Rustycage]

i will state here that i think woman beaters are the lowest of lowest. but of course, one hit differs from the other. it's hard to judge axl when we dont know the facts

We know the claims, we just don't know the rebuttal from Axl. He just paid them off.

a claim is not the same as a fact.

can you show me the proof that shows axl has beaten up a woman, any woman? and no, paying her off is not proof. it's not even an indication. it just means axl paid her money, so she would refrain from her claim. it's not a confession of guilt. if it were, prosecution would have an easy case in criminal court.

His neighbor?

So his neighbor, Erin and Stephanie are all liars. Riiiiight

Axl never showed himself to be short-tempered and violent towards people less likely to able to defend themselves. /sarcasm

Delusional Axl fans.