DieselDaisy Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Wouldn't someone like Duff, Ron, Tommy call her out if she was controlling Axl?It's kind of a serious thing to accuse her of without any real evidence. I don't believe for a second that Beta or anyone else controls Axl. The only thing that is likely is that the label gets to decide some shit, for obvious reasons, but even the label doesn't get to control Axl.Axl is all about control. No one dictates his actions. All just my guess but I think you can suggest to him, even negotiate but never control.I seriously doubt they have him pumped full of meds. Thats why I like see a tantrum or two. Don't let the hats distract u it's still Axl!The label definitely controling releases especially in this day and age and situation. If Slash and Duff return they might loosen up the labels ass. Clearly the label has some say, but I don't think they have the final musical say. He swapped songs right before the release he said.The label, Axl, and the lawyers control the release. And they negotiate until they get the Best deal. Azzof tried to control, it didn't last.It's funny that a lot of people say here that Axl surrounds himself with yes men, yet somehow some of those yes men and betas control Axl? I just don't buy that shit.There's a reason The Shaq Rap was never released.The label can pull the plug on anything, but so can Axl. But if Axl says here's the record and they are like nah. What can he do?What Axl was doing line up wise and musically also a factor. Beavan's record was probably fine from a music perspective. Just a record. But the reprecussions could have seen to be a long term disaster.Yes, Buckethead and Robin might have decided to stay. The record would have probably sold more since this was before it was all leaked, and before the music industry went tits up. Axl could have then toured in support of it instead of playing aimless hits tours. He then could have moved onto CD2 earlier....Long term disaster! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) But actually label may have wanted Slash to come back and Axl not to go on a nu metal odyssey. They wanted to sell 20 mil according Zutaut and there was no hit. 1999 - Axl talked out it, too industrial would damage hard rock fan base. 2000 - re-record with Queen producer lets work the piano ballads. When Axl ready to mix they say its a mess. Was it? Probably fine?So yes I think going with Beavan record, even really going for it as a more industrial record. Then do the RTB record in 2004 with more piano epics. Would have been moderately more likely to succeed than what happened. But it could also have been successful and cancelled the reunion. But GH sold pretty well so the label lost nothing. They keep the reunion hope and band image until 2008. Then recouped all the money with the BB deal. These guys dont fuck around. Axl was never (allowed to) really get off the ground creatively. Whether he too also was hoping for Slash to return who knows. But the label werent really onboard fully in 99-2000. Seems like delay tactics. They could have actually had a successful band and 3 records selling 10-20 between them? What Axl was trying to do was pretty hard. Put out Best of live albums and GH of the old band and put out a 90s alt rock record as GNR. He ended up touring for GH with his new line up. I think the idea was that if CD didnt get released a reunion of sorts could happen and save the cash cow. But by 2004 they realised not going to happen. So pulled plug. But Axl dug in again and funded it himself. Azoff flew in on his reunion reputation to save the day. Still tried to get a reunion done on the release of CD. Seems like everyone wanted a reunion. Not an ideal way to launch GNR 2. Just my take on it based on what I think we know. Edited October 28, 2015 by wasted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 I do not believe in this Beavan record, RTB record. It is all bullshit George Lucas syndrome. Axl would not have even released CD if Iovine had not pushed it out. It is like when Axl suddenly came out and said Oh My God is a demo. That is not a demo. A demo is something you record on a four track sans drums or with a drum machine! Axl just pulls this stuff out of his arse. And the fact that the label sunk 13 million into a record without Slash suggests they had adjusted to the idea of a record without Slash. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) Tommy thought the Beavan record was fine. Didn't need to re-record and have all the instrumentation on the RTB version. I think maybe the money just came out of the 100s of millions GNR had made the label. It's not a sign of confidence they had in what Axl had recorded. Most of it was wasted on hiring stuff and engineers for the highest price they could. If they got another hit or two in 2000 they could of sold 20 mil. But when didnt happen Slash was probably in their dreams. Brian May was probably seen as close as they could get?They wouldn't have released CD with out BB deal. It was never going to sell enough to cover production costs and make profit after 2004. In 2008 it sold 250k in the UK. Thats 2.5 mil for the label to put to the 14 mil debt they had racked up. So the BB deal paying off that 14 mil is huge. Edited October 28, 2015 by wasted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trqster Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 (edited) TB's only worried about one thing....keep on leaching Axl's Gn'R legacy fortune. So it's in their best interest that Axl pills up a shit load of money with a reunion tour. No brainer. Edited October 28, 2015 by trqster Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double talkin jive mfkr Posted October 28, 2015 Author Share Posted October 28, 2015 TB's only worried about one thing....keep on leaching Axl's Gn'R legacy fortune. So it's in their best interest that Axl pills up a shit load of money with a reunion tour. No brainer. yeah but the question is how much axl gives them personally and/or if they will be included in the mix to receive their cut as management should the reunion occur.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomfriend Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 Tommy thought the Beavan record was fine. Didn't need to re-record and have all the instrumentation on the RTB version. I think maybe the money just came out of the 100s of millions GNR had made the label. It's not a sign of confidence they had in what Axl had recorded. Most of it was wasted on hiring stuff and engineers for the highest price they could. If they got another hit or two in 2000 they could of sold 20 mil. But when didnt happen Slash was probably in their dreams. Brian May was probably seen as close as they could get?They wouldn't have released CD with out BB deal. It was never going to sell enough to cover production costs and make profit after 2004. In 2008 it sold 250k in the UK. Thats 2.5 mil for the label to put to the 14 mil debt they had racked up. So the BB deal paying off that 14 mil is huge.20 Mil in 2000? You are officially out of your mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunnerOne 84 Posted October 28, 2015 Share Posted October 28, 2015 It wouldn't have sold 20 million if it came out in 1995. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) It wouldn't have sold 20 million if it came out in 1995.According to Zutaut this was the labels ambition. I think he was exeggerating a little, he was saying you wont sell 20 mil without a hit single. So thats why the 1999 record didnt come out. Jimmys idea was to bring in RTB to rerecord. Tommy thought the Beavan record was fine. Didn't need to re-record and have all the instrumentation on the RTB version. I think maybe the money just came out of the 100s of millions GNR had made the label. It's not a sign of confidence they had in what Axl had recorded. Most of it was wasted on hiring stuff and engineers for the highest price they could. If they got another hit or two in 2000 they could of sold 20 mil. But when didnt happen Slash was probably in their dreams. Brian May was probably seen as close as they could get?They wouldn't have released CD with out BB deal. It was never going to sell enough to cover production costs and make profit after 2004. In 2008 it sold 250k in the UK. Thats 2.5 mil for the label to put to the 14 mil debt they had racked up. So the BB deal paying off that 14 mil is huge.20 Mil in 2000? You are officially out of your mind.1999. But it has nothing to do with me, its what Zataut said about the labels ambitions. Translates to label didnt think it was commercial enough or good enough.But having thought about it, it's probably worldwide sales. 5 mil in the US. That would mean 5 mil europe, 5 mil rest of world. So 15-20 mil. They need 5 mil to make some money back. It seems possible that it was too industrial a record, throw silkworms, Oh my god in there ands its getting further from being hard rock. Edited October 29, 2015 by wasted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Supernatural was the biggest selling rock album of 2000 and it eventually shipped 26 million. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Worldwide or in the US? Either way I think around that time average cds sold 3-4 mil. So I think the label have hoped for some decent sales. They had the name, the voice and another possible Nov Rain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Dude Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Supernatural was the biggest selling rock album of 2000 and it eventually shipped 26 million. That's a good point. CD is far better than Supernatural so I think it could've done closer to 30 mil in 2000. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maynard Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Oh great, more speculation about how well CD could have done in different scenarios. I think it could have sold 1 billion copies if Kurt Cobain was on lead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosaj Thing Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Supernatural was the biggest selling rock album of 2000 and it eventually shipped 26 million. Mentioning Supernatural in the same thread where 99-cent, utterly awful album Chinese Democracy is being discussed should be considered sacrilegious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 without beta, axl wouldnt be here anymore, and we wouldn't all be here discussing a possible reunion anyway. she only, what? saved our hero? what a wench she is...someone should give that beta lad a medal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustycage Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 she only, what? saved our hero? what a wench she is...Why do I feel like some of you guys are living in a fantasy world with peanut butter castles in the basement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wasted Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 To me it's about what the label thought CD could sell and why they put 14 mil in if they were going to get all twisted about making that money back. Did they really think Axl and Beavan were going to make a record that would sell shitloads? Did the label think we have the name, the voice and one of the main songwriters, we can make a bundle here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nosaj Thing Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 without beta, axl wouldnt be here anymore, and we wouldn't all be here discussing a possible reunion anyway. she only, what? saved our hero? what a wench she is...someone should give that beta lad a medal What do you mean by "Axl wouldn't be here anymore"? That without Beta, Axl, the little coward, would have killed himself years ago? I highly doubt it.And whoever considers an allegedly women beater as a hero, should work on their low self-esteem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustycage Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Narcissists don't kill themselves unless it would benefit them(getting out of an inevitable shitstorm). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlashisGOD Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 Ain't no way CD would have sold 20 million in 1999, 2000, or any other damn year. That's AFD level right there and it wasn't going to happen regardless of which year it came out, much less when it did come out 8 years too late. By 1999 people had come to accept that GN'R was Slash just as much as Axl. It was never going to happen without the core duo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomfriend Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 (edited) without beta, axl wouldnt be here anymore, and we wouldn't all be here discussing a possible reunion anyway. she only, what? saved our hero? what a wench she is...someone should give that beta lad a medal This post reminds me of the tagline for Wayne's World. I laughed, I cried, I hurled. Edited October 29, 2015 by tomfriend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 without beta, axl wouldnt be here anymore, and we wouldn't all be here discussing a possible reunion anyway. she only, what? saved our hero? what a wench she is...someone should give that beta lad a medal What do you mean by "Axl wouldn't be here anymore"? That without Beta, Axl, the little coward, would have killed himself years ago? I highly doubt it.And whoever considers an allegedly women beater as a hero, should work on their low self-esteem.rock in rio 2001, axl's words: he wouldnt be there if it were not for beta. i assume he's saying he would be dead if it wasnt for her. how he would have died, is anyone's guess. what matters is, in some way of another she was responsible for his survival. wether "the little coward" would have killed himself or not, i dont know. i only know what axl said on that day.allegedly he was a woman beater, but who made you or anyone else judge and jury in this case? erin crushed axl's ball sack, so who's right or wrong? i sure as hell dont know nor do i have any interest in analysing axl"s tumultuous love life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I have always interpreted it more as in he not being at RIR if it wasn't for Beta, meaning that it if wasn't for her he'd give up GN'R. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
action Posted October 29, 2015 Share Posted October 29, 2015 I have always interpreted it more as in he not being at RIR if it wasn't for Beta, meaning that it if wasn't for her he'd give up GN'R.well done, beta.people have said she was responsible for keeping slash away from axl, but since august we know axl and slash are on speaking terms again. if beta really doesnt want slash in axl's life, that would have never happened.before august, i was as sceptic as anyone, but now i can see some benefits to beta.another assumption is, beta is in it for the money. then why would she be against an appetite reunion, which would earn axl more money than he could ever earn otherwise? i'm sure beta isnt stupid. if you can tame axl rose, that must mean something.so what will happen now is, i think a reunion will happen, beta will become something like the yoko ono of GNR, and as soon as the money rolls in, and BEFORE his old buddies can influence him too much, it will all be over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double talkin jive mfkr Posted October 29, 2015 Author Share Posted October 29, 2015 I have always interpreted it more as in he not being at RIR if it wasn't for Beta, meaning that it if wasn't for her he'd give up GN'R.well done, beta.people have said she was responsible for keeping slash away from axl, but since august we know axl and slash are on speaking terms again. if beta really doesnt want slash in axl's life, that would have never happened.before august, i was as sceptic as anyone, but now i can see some benefits to beta.another assumption is, beta is in it for the money. then why would she be against an appetite reunion, which would earn axl more money than he could ever earn otherwise? i'm sure beta isnt stupid. if you can tame axl rose, that must mean something.so what will happen now is, i think a reunion will happen, beta will become something like the yoko ono of GNR, and as soon as the money rolls in, and BEFORE his old buddies can influence him too much, it will all be over.shes rolling in axl's direction it appears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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