Ultimate Guitar: Reunion with Axl, Slash, Duff, Richard, Frank

[DieselDaisy]

There is an emphasis on Jagger-Richards also yet I know for a fact that if they play without Charlie, people will revolt. It was a hard enough sell without Wyman but just about digestible due to Wood's elevated ''honourary founder'' status. Charlie does not sell songs, hates media and interviews yet he is The Rolling Stones' engine room. No Charlie, no Stones.

It is a similar story with Tyler-Perry I believe, and most other bands. You always have these bands where one or two members are prioritised yet you often have these silent types who or just as important or the real geniuses in the set-up.

Why cater for the idiots who only know Jungle through watching WWF wrestling, or the teeny bopper girls who like Stephanie's wedding dress in November Rain?

What a tragic excuse of a band and a fanbase.

[Len Cnut]

Spot on about Charlie Watts, spot fucking on.

[wasted]

But that's the kind of band GNR were. If you don't get those people then they aren't that big. No SCOM no 26 million biggest debut of all time. No Don't Cry or Nov Rain or videos not a big deal. Maybe they could have been a cult metal band like Motorhead. But they sold 100 million records.

People don't care about music that much. It's just something to listen to on the way to work. Only rock fans care. And thats sells a certain amount. But to e as big as they were in the 90s you have to get the mainstream with hits. That's who will come back for the Axl and Slash reunion.

[Len Cnut]

Is being big more important to what it is to be GnR or is it about music? Some sort of synergy that those players had that made them work together really well as a unit and produce some pretty blistering fucking sounds. I'm not saying the fact that they were huge should be forgotten with a view to trying to make themselves into some kind of cult Ramones type thing, I'm saying after years of these bullshit fuckeries and attempts to carry on GnR without the personnel that made them musically valuable, has not a very simple lesson been learnt here? I mean thats the obvious glaring thing here, thats its not enough to just piss around and expect Axls singing alone to carry the can...or the addition of Slash back on guitar. I mean it's a move in the right direction but it's still not THAT band. Quite frankly even if it was that band it can't ever be as amazing as back in the day but fuck me, if you're gonna have a reunion have a sodding reunion.

It's just basically a lack of respect for GnR musically and just about little boys and girls that wanna have a wank over some late 80s early 90s dream they have in their head. You can't force Axl and Slash into being some kind of Glimmer Twins thing cuz they're not.

[DieselDaisy]

And who wrote the chords to Sweet Child?

I caught the tail end of their existence, of 1992-1993 basically, when I was growing up and this ''Axl'' ''Slash'' thing is not how I remember it. I remember it being discussed as a ''band''. I remember people being more aware of the other members than what is being discussed here. That is how I remember it, reading rock magazines and watching interviews on television. This aspect is even something that is factually possible to prove. Go on youtube and look at those old interviews. You will see all the members being interviewed (yes, including Gilby, Matt and Dizzy) and very much in the public spotlight.

[RussTCB]

I rarely make sweeping statements like this, but I submit the following:

Anyone claiming they won't go see a tour involving Axl & Slash on stage because of the rest of the line up will absolutely end up seeing them.

[Len Cnut]

And who wrote the chords to Sweet Child?

I caught the tail end of their existence, of 1992-1993 basically, when I was growing up and this ''Axl'' ''Slash'' thing is not how I remember it. I remember it being discussed as a ''band''. I remember people being more aware of the other members than what is being discussed here. That is how I remember it, reading rock magazines and watching interviews on television. This aspect is even something that is factually possible to prove. Go on youtube and look at those old interviews. You will see all the members being interviewed (yes, including Gilby, Matt and Dizzy) and very much in the public spotlight.

My experience is identical to this, is was never the fuckin' Slash and Axl roadshow, not ever. It's not like The Smiths where even the music videos just seemed to concentrate on Moz and Marr, it was an actual functioning band with individual creatively contributing members. Read all the books, watch the music videos, read the magazines of the time, it was not the Slash and Axl show.

Look at the songwriting credits, how many were just Rose/Hudson?

Edited November 18, 2015 by Len B'stard

[Lies They Tell]

Whats being suggested here is basically that, musically speaking, GnR weren't nothing special and it don't really matter who made or is playing the songs, as long as you've got the vocalist and Slash still remembers his lead work.

Nah man! I don't think anyone is suggesting that. The AFD lineup was special.

But I could never expect the guys to reunite with someone as unreliable as Adler. It would be a pain in the ass to work with him and it would probably just lead to a breakup of the band again. And Adler was probably the least important member anyway. Nostalgia factor would be the biggest reason to bring him back.

Izzy was very important. But I'm not complaining if he's not coming back. The return of Slash and Duff is epic enough.

I loved Chinese Democracy. It was a great album and would've been even better with Slash's input. Slash, Duff and Axl together could make incredible music, so I don't see a reason to complain.

Can you honestly say that Axl, Slash and Duff together wouldn't create awesome music? Maybe it wouldn't be as great as with Izzy. But it would most likely still be better than 99% of the music out there. So why complain?

[DieselDaisy]

I rarely make sweeping statements like this, but I submit the following:

Anyone claiming they won't go see a tour involving Axl & Slash on stage because of the rest of the line up will absolutely end up seeing them.

I disagree with that statement.

Imagine the scenario. You are an Izzy/Duff fan (they do exist). You are asked to pay £80 for an experience of old fart rock. Axl and Slash are going on stage and asking you to imagine them as the band minus your favourite members, and that the magic distilled on Appetite somehow only belongs to only two of them now.

It is basically nugnr with Slash selling out and becoming a hireling (what does that say about his integrity). Slash would be no better than Pitman, and this line-up only slightly more legitimate than the nugnr line-ups.

[wasted]

Spot on about Charlie Watts, spot fucking on.

Not really though. On the Voodoo Lounge tour the spread of people was broad. This wasnt just dedicated Stones fans. I almost didn't know who Charlie Watts was and I read a lot of rock magazines and books about the band. Didnt know The black bass player, kind of knew who Ronnie was but didn't care. I can't see that crowd caring that much about Charlie come show time. It was the Jagger and Keef show for at least half the fans. The Black Crowes opened only a few people seemed to care. These weren't music fans, it was a stadium crowd.

Axl is Jagger. Slash is Keef. Duff is Charlie. Let's reunion.

[DieselDaisy]

Whats being suggested here is basically that, musically speaking, GnR weren't nothing special and it don't really matter who made or is playing the songs, as long as you've got the vocalist and Slash still remembers his lead work.

Nah man! I don't think anyone is suggesting that. The AFD lineup was special.

But I could never expect the guys to reunite with someone as unreliable as Adler. It would be a pain in the ass to work with him and it would probably just lead to a breakup of the band again. And Adler was probably the least important member anyway. Nostalgia factor would be the biggest reason to bring him back.

Izzy was very important. But I'm not complaining if he's not coming back. The return of Slash and Duff is epic enough.

I loved Chinese Democracy. It was a great album and would've been even better with Slash's input. Slash, Duff and Axl together could make incredible music, so I don't see a reason to complain.

Can you honestly say that Axl, Slash and Duff together wouldn't create awesome music? Maybe it wouldn't be as great as with Izzy. But it would most likely still be better than 99% of the music out there. So why complain?

They didn't originally, after Izzy left, did they? And they have not written much on their own, one or two songs maybe like Anastasia, Slither and the better songs on CD (Twat, Better), but nothing on the level of their work when they had Izzy.

[Len Cnut]

And this ladies and gentleman admirably illustrates why rock n roll went down the toilet and is now more or less non-existant as a genre...cuz the fans don't actually care about the music.

Whats being suggested here is basically that, musically speaking, GnR weren't nothing special and it don't really matter who made or is playing the songs, as long as you've got the vocalist and Slash still remembers his lead work.

Nah man! I don't think anyone is suggesting that. The AFD lineup was special.

But I could never expect the guys to reunite with someone as unreliable as Adler. It would be a pain in the ass to work with him and it would probably just lead to a breakup of the band again. And Adler was probably the least important member anyway. Nostalgia factor would be the biggest reason to bring him back.

Izzy was very important. But I'm not complaining if he's not coming back. The return of Slash and Duff is epic enough.

I loved Chinese Democracy. It was a great album and would've been even better with Slash's input. Slash, Duff and Axl together could make incredible music, so I don't see a reason to complain.

Can you honestly say that Axl, Slash and Duff together wouldn't create awesome music? Maybe it wouldn't be as great as with Izzy. But it would most likely still be better than 99% of the music out there. So why complain?

Yeah but i stated in my initial post anyway that you can probably nix Adler for sheer crackhead unreliability. Izzy is something else though.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Len B'stard

[DieselDaisy]

Spot on about Charlie Watts, spot fucking on.

Not really though. On the Voodoo Lounge tour the spread of people was broad. This wasnt just dedicated Stones fans. I almost didn't know who Charlie Watts was and I read a lot of rock magazines and books about the band. Didnt know The black bass player, kind of knew who Ronnie was but didn't care. I can't see that crowd caring that much about Charlie come show time. It was the Jagger and Keef show for at least half the fans. The Black Crowes opened only a few people seemed to care. These weren't music fans, it was a stadium crowd.

Axl is Jagger. Slash is Keef. Duff is Charlie. Let's reunion.

I'm sorry this did not happen at your own show but you can see them live today, or pick any Stones live album or bootleg at virtually random and there is almost always a moment when the crowd start chanting ''Charlie, Charlie, Charlie'' spontaneously.

[Len Cnut]

Fuck what the crowd chant, if you've got ears when you listen to The Rolling Stones and don't see how important Charlie is to the sound then you should probably just chuck in the whole troublesome listening to music aspect and just stick to staring at the CD artwork and watching documentarys...and i do mean watching, don't listen to what they say, it'll only confuse you, just look how cool they look sitting down and smoking cigarettes.

[RussTCB]

I rarely make sweeping statements like this, but I submit the following:

Anyone claiming they won't go see a tour involving Axl & Slash on stage because of the rest of the line up will absolutely end up seeing them.

I disagree with that statement.

Imagine the scenario. You are an Izzy/Duff fan (they do exist). You are asked to pay £80 for an experience of old fart rock. Axl and Slash are going on stage and asking you to imagine them as the band minus your favourite members, and that the magic distilled on Appetite somehow only belongs to only two of them now.

It is basically nugnr with Slash selling out and becoming a hireling (what does that say about his integrity). Slash would be no better than Pitman, and this line-up only slightly more legitimate than the nugnr line-ups.

I'm not debating the legitimacy of it, I just saying that anyone making that claim is more or less lying to themselves. Whether they ever admit it on here or not, they'll go to a show.

[wasted]

And who wrote the chords to Sweet Child?

I caught the tail end of their existence, of 1992-1993 basically, when I was growing up and this ''Axl'' ''Slash'' thing is not how I remember it. I remember it being discussed as a ''band''. I remember people being more aware of the other members than what is being discussed here. That is how I remember it, reading rock magazines and watching interviews on television. This aspect is even something that is factually possible to prove. Go on youtube and look at those old interviews. You will see all the members being interviewed (yes, including Gilby, Matt and Dizzy) and very much in the public spotlight.

My experience is identical to this, is was never the fuckin' Slash and Axl roadshow, not ever. It's not like The Smiths where even the music videos just seemed to concentrate on Moz and Marr, it was an actual functioning band with individual creatively contributing members. Read all the books, watch the music videos, read the magazines of the time, it was not the Slash and Axl show.

Look at the songwriting credits, how many were just Rose/Hudson?

It was for the MTV video fans and even on the UYI tour Izzy was gone pretty quick. I saw his last show and you wouldnt know he was there unless he came up to do Dust N Bones solo.

Even Howard Stern thinks Slash wrote all the riffs. Nobody knows Izzy wrote the cords to SCOM or the riffs to those songs. They just see Axl singing and Slash soloing.

[DieselDaisy]

I rarely make sweeping statements like this, but I submit the following:

Anyone claiming they won't go see a tour involving Axl & Slash on stage because of the rest of the line up will absolutely end up seeing them.

I disagree with that statement.

Imagine the scenario. You are an Izzy/Duff fan (they do exist). You are asked to pay £80 for an experience of old fart rock. Axl and Slash are going on stage and asking you to imagine them as the band minus your favourite members, and that the magic distilled on Appetite somehow only belongs to only two of them now.

It is basically nugnr with Slash selling out and becoming a hireling (what does that say about his integrity). Slash would be no better than Pitman, and this line-up only slightly more legitimate than the nugnr line-ups.

I'm not debating the legitimacy of it, I just saying that anyone making that claim is more or less lying to themselves. Whether they ever admit it on here or not, they'll go to a show.

That is what I disagree with. I think some would turn away - not many but some.

[Len Cnut]

And who wrote the chords to Sweet Child?

I caught the tail end of their existence, of 1992-1993 basically, when I was growing up and this ''Axl'' ''Slash'' thing is not how I remember it. I remember it being discussed as a ''band''. I remember people being more aware of the other members than what is being discussed here. That is how I remember it, reading rock magazines and watching interviews on television. This aspect is even something that is factually possible to prove. Go on youtube and look at those old interviews. You will see all the members being interviewed (yes, including Gilby, Matt and Dizzy) and very much in the public spotlight.

My experience is identical to this, is was never the fuckin' Slash and Axl roadshow, not ever. It's not like The Smiths where even the music videos just seemed to concentrate on Moz and Marr, it was an actual functioning band with individual creatively contributing members. Read all the books, watch the music videos, read the magazines of the time, it was not the Slash and Axl show.

Look at the songwriting credits, how many were just Rose/Hudson?

It was for the MTV video fans and even on the UYI tour Izzy was gone pretty quick. I saw his last show and you wouldnt know he was there unless he came up to do Dust N Bones solo.

Even Howard Stern thinks Slash wrote all the riffs. Nobody knows Izzy wrote the cords to SCOM or the riffs to those songs. They just see Axl singing and Slash soloing.

You're looking at this with the eyes of marketing executive and not someone that listens to or enjoys music. It's about what people see and what made them big and nothing to do with anything you hear.

[Lies They Tell]

They didn't originally, after Izzy left, did they? And they have not written much on their own, one or two songs maybe like Anastasia, Slither and the better songs on CD (Twat, Better), but nothing on the level of their work when they had Izzy.

And this ladies and gentleman admirably illustrates why rock n roll went down the toilet and is now more or less non-existant as a genre...cuz the fans don't actually care about the music.

Feel free to disagree, but IMO they've written lots of great tunes without Izzy. So I'm not worried if Stradlin isn't a part of the reunion. Of course it would be fun if he was coming back. But I happen to care about great music. So instead of complaining, I cheer if Rock Gods like Axl and Slash reunite. That means more great music to us who appreciate it.

[wasted]

Spot on about Charlie Watts, spot fucking on.

Not really though. On the Voodoo Lounge tour the spread of people was broad. This wasnt just dedicated Stones fans. I almost didn't know who Charlie Watts was and I read a lot of rock magazines and books about the band. Didnt know The black bass player, kind of knew who Ronnie was but didn't care. I can't see that crowd caring that much about Charlie come show time. It was the Jagger and Keef show for at least half the fans. The Black Crowes opened only a few people seemed to care. These weren't music fans, it was a stadium crowd.

Axl is Jagger. Slash is Keef. Duff is Charlie. Let's reunion.

I'm sorry this did not happen at your own show but you can see them live today, or pick any Stones live album or bootleg at virtually random and there is almost always a moment when the crowd start chanting ''Charlie, Charlie, Charlie'' spontaneously.

I think it might of or he at least got a big cheer innerducin' the band. But it was probably just rock nerds, stones fanatics. At least half the crowd, all those up in the seating weren't chanting anything. If Charlie wasnt there those people way at the back wouldn't know or care. People just know the hits, see the band name and go to see the Stones at Wembley. If you read a rock book you are a nerd. Thats not the majority of the crowd.

[DieselDaisy]

I saw the Stones at Wembley in 1999 and the crowd, a great swath of them, started shouting ''Charlie''. It happens at nearly every show. If you do not know who Charlie Watts is and you are at a Stones show, you shouldn't be there. It is that simple.

[wasted]

Spot on about Charlie Watts, spot fucking on.

Not really though. On the Voodoo Lounge tour the spread of people was broad. This wasnt just dedicated Stones fans. I almost didn't know who Charlie Watts was and I read a lot of rock magazines and books about the band. Didnt know The black bass player, kind of knew who Ronnie was but didn't care. I can't see that crowd caring that much about Charlie come show time. It was the Jagger and Keef show for at least half the fans. The Black Crowes opened only a few people seemed to care. These weren't music fans, it was a stadium crowd.

Axl is Jagger. Slash is Keef. Duff is Charlie. Let's reunion.

I'm sorry this did not happen at your own show but you can see them live today, or pick any Stones live album or bootleg at virtually random and there is almost always a moment when the crowd start chanting ''Charlie, Charlie, Charlie'' spontaneously.

I think it might of or he at least got a big cheer innerducin' the band. But it was probably just rock nerds, stones fanatics. At least half the crowd, all those up in the seating weren't chanting anything. If Charlie wasnt there those people way at the back wouldn't know or care. People just know the hits, see the band name and go to see the Stones at Wembley. If you read a rock book you are a nerd. Thats not the majority of the crowd.

[Len Cnut]

Feel free to disagree, but IMO they've written lots of great tunes without Izzy. So I'm not worried if Stradlin isn't a part of the reunion. Of course it would be fun if he was coming back. But I happen to care about great music. So instead of complaining, I cheer if Rock Gods like Axl and Slash reunite. That means more great music to us who appreciate it.

Sorry but Axl Rose is not a God to me and neither is Slash, they're just people that make nice songs, yes they're written great songs without Izzy, in the direct sense of his not having the writing credits on ALL the songs but why do those supercede the ones that were written WITH Izzy, as substantial as that contribution is, why one over the other? You care about great music yet you believe that an aspect of the band that would offer you great music is more or less superfluous?

Edited November 18, 2015 by Len B'stard

[wasted]

I saw the Stones at Wembley in 1999 and the crowd, a great swath of them, started shouting ''Charlie''. It happens at nearly every show. If you do not know who Charlie Watts is and you are at a Stones show, you shouldn't be there. It is that simple.

It really isn't. I've been to stadium shows of Metallica, ACDC, Eagles. I have some knowledge of these bands but I can't name the line ups.

Charlie might be as important as Mick n Keef but I doubt it. There's people at these shows that just go because it's the Stones or their boyfriend loves the band. Some people just like the songs or go with friends. That was my first Stones show, how am I supposed to know all the rituals of Stones fanatics.

If the stadium is full of Diesel and Lenny rock encyclopedias then I'm not going again. It's too intense. Look at her with the big tits, she doesn't know who Izzy Stradlin is does she?

[Len Cnut]

I saw the Stones at Wembley in 1999 and the crowd, a great swath of them, started shouting ''Charlie''. It happens at nearly every show. If you do not know who Charlie Watts is and you are at a Stones show, you shouldn't be there. It is that simple.

It really isn't. I've been to stadium shows of Metallica, ACDC, Eagles. I have some knowledge of these bands but I can't name the line ups.

Charlie might be as important as Mick n Keef but I doubt it. There's people at these shows that just go because it's the Stones or their boyfriend loves the band. Some people just like the songs or go with friends. That was my first Stones show, how am I supposed to know all the rituals of Stones fanatics.

If the stadium is full of Diesel and Lenny rock encyclopedias then I'm not going again. It's too intense. Look at her with the big tits, she doesn't know who Izzy Stradlin is does she?

I got no problem with people who ain't massive fans or only have a passing interest, more power to them...i just don't think those people are justification enough to start fucking with the structure of what makes something musically special. I mean the people onstage playing the music, they at least should care, no? I mean those people would still turn up if it was the full original line up right? It's not as if they are somehow adverse to having the complete article. When you have that you satisfy purists and part-timers, it's not as if the choice here is 'ok, you can have one or the other'.

It's just basically saying that the music aspect is sort of peripheral and unimportant. It's like football, you have the people that just turn up and leave halfway or spend half the time on their phones and then you have people who watch the game and are interested in football and don't just go to look at Cristiano Ronaldos haircut. Would you say 'fuck, if the stadiums gonna be full of people watching football and being passionate about it i ain't going, it's too intense'

It's the rock music equivalent of the prawn sandwich brigade.

Edited November 18, 2015 by Len B'stard