Are GNR now operating like Kiss?

[Young_Gun]

Guns are now operating like any rock n' roll nostalgia act that is basically in it for the retirement fund. $2,500US for a VIP package that doesn't even include meeting Axl, Slash and Duff is criminal. Kiss offer this oppurtunity for LESS than $2,500. This is worse than Kiss.

Yeah but you don't need a VIP package to see the show, which is all any sane person should want to do anyway. Those packages are for suckers.

I know, but all being equal, KISS's VIP tickets are much better value. Not sure how much KISS charge for normal tickets though.

[Tom-Ass]

They were always a band of the people and this is their definitive statement.

A band of the people wouldn't stand for $300 to $400 dollar tickets (with fees) and $100 nosebleeds.. They are alienating a lot of people who would love to see them but just can't now.

It's capitalism at it's best, not GNR's call. The time it took for tickets to sell out unfortunately suggest that there is nothing wrong with pricing - if anything, it probably could be higher. It's how the system works, how the industry works. As we say in Brazil, there is no free lunch.

I don't agree.. This may have worked because it is the first show in Vegas but it won't fly here in the States for a whole tour. Thousands of tix were also bought up buy scalpers and thousands were also help back for high rollers.. I paid $280 for a decent seat.. This is a one time thing for me as a huge fan.. I wanted to see this band as many times as I could but I don't see it happening now.. I know a lot of people that would love to go see them but are cringing at the prices... The majority of people don't want to pay more than $150 for a good seat at a rock show.

It's offer and demand, the most primary concept in economics...

Yeah we get the concept....

But life isn't all about money. Maybe the band would get satisfaction from knowing they're allowing genuine fans to see them. Otherwise you just end up playing to corporate lawyers who work at law firms that bought blocks of tickets. Crowds filled with genuine fans bring a better energy than crowds filled with people who maybe like a song or two when it comes on the radio. It's a balance

Yes! I would rather be at a show with a regular every day fans than a bunch of rich people that are just there because it is cool. Like when you go to a baseball game, the party is always in the cheap bleacher seats..

[Rovim]

I have no problem with the dollar bill yall. Just trying to get to grips with the new Slash n Duff era. Kiss isn't a bandI'm overly familiar with. I love Destroyer. I like the whole idea of Gene Simmons. I see some Ace/Criss paralells. All the merch and vip deals couldn't save us from ourselves.

Yeah, I can see some similarities but one difference can be priorities. I believe Kiss care about the money first, and the music comes second if at all.

The art comes first for Axl imo. He wants to make money but not on the expense of his musical integrity or dignity. He could have reunited years ago with Slash, while still hating his guts but he didn't. Could have made a lot of money.

And Axl said Slash refused to stay in Guns even though Axl said to him it will cost him a lot of money. So maybe not really like Kiss. Perhaps things have changed and maybe I'm naive when it comes to Guns, but I'd like to believe they've reunited cause Axl, Duff, and Slash want to work together again cause there is mutual respect and the chance to make that much money with people you didn't work with for 20 years is too tempting.

The real test will be the music and the shows. You can't fake that and Izzy is involved which to me shows it could be not pathetic.

[wasted]

I guess what we are seeing is all the money making systems being put into place. maybe once all that is set they will announce a record.

What I'm saying is that in Kiss it seems that those two just milk the thing and the fans lap it up. The line up, the make up, the merch is more important than the music.

So far that is the case. The line up, shows, merch far out weigh the music they could make. Maybe that's just the times. They are like Zeppelin. No need for new material.

[DieselDaisy]

The rock scene - Guns are certainly no different here - is depressing beyond words. It just depresses the hell out of me. Old git nostalgia rock. Pay your money to see the hits. Leave with a bunch of t-shirts and a sore backside.

I've said it before but it has become like Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show, people simply showing up to see the old gits live before they finally croak it, as did, people show up to see this vacuous recreation of the American old west before Sitting Bull died. There are few acts who put albums out and a complete absence of integrity, attitude or passion to do something new that is creative. It is all aimed at the largest denominator which comprises, braindead casuals.

Have you ever been to a show where the crowd are casual beyond words? I was at a Neil Young/Crazy Horse show and the audience sat there wondering where 'Heart of Gold' was, why they were enduring all of these obscure fifteen minute jams?

[gunsfanoldie]

If Guns were like KISS, they would have done the FULL reunion people wanted.

I agree with those saying they were more similar to KISS the last 12 years, playing "easy", rote shows with people that aren't the originals. But that might be a TAD too harsh, as I just kind of never cared about NuGNR. I actively hate NuKISS.

[DieselDaisy]

Guns are exactly like Kiss now. They just lack the coffin, but they do have action figures haha. Pay your $2000 for a load of tat and VIP bum sessions. That is not music! That is not rock n' roll! Musicians should want to meet you for free - or not as it happens; what they should not do is prostitute themselves out: ''give me your cash and I will allow you to stand next to me while I sign some bit of tacky merchandise''. It is embarrassing.

[wasted]

That's kind of what I mean. Gene assesses the market and aims to give people what they want.

Have GNR succumbed to this or are they back to give rock a kick in the ghoulies?

The commercial side is set and no mean feat in itself. But can they also deliver music and shows that live up to the legacy this is all built on? Or is it like Kiss, nostalgia and lifestyle accessories.

[Billsfan]

Guns are exactly like Kiss now. They just lack the coffin, but they do have action figures haha. Pay your $2000 for a load of tat and VIP bum sessions. That is not music! That is not rock n' roll! Musicians should want to meet you for free - or not as it happens; what they should not do is prostitute themselves out: ''give me your cash and I will allow you to stand next to me while I sign some bit of tacky merchandise''. It is embarrassing.

Not arguing whether you're right, but don't you find it odd that people will still pay for that?

[DieselDaisy]

Guns are exactly like Kiss now. They just lack the coffin, but they do have action figures haha. Pay your $2000 for a load of tat and VIP bum sessions. That is not music! That is not rock n' roll! Musicians should want to meet you for free - or not as it happens; what they should not do is prostitute themselves out: ''give me your cash and I will allow you to stand next to me while I sign some bit of tacky merchandise''. It is embarrassing.

Not arguing whether you're right, but don't you find it odd that people will still pay for that?

Very odd.

I remember Axl saying he did not agree with fans paying money to meet him, and that is why he refuses to appear. I agree with Axl. (That still raises the issue of, why he permitted VIP meet and greets at his nugnr shows, the other members to appear, but regardless...).

By the way, what is the purpose of autographs. I have a few examples myself so am not totally immune here, but I remember seeing a couple of iffy autograph experiences at a sporting match, sportsman snubbing fans, and thought ''fuck that, I'm not demeaning myself to any cunt''. If Elvis was reincarnated, I'm not asking him for his autograph or anything. I'll listen to his music but have no interest in his calligraphy. I vowed that day to never ask for an autograph again.

That is the thing with meeting celebrities, it puts the fan on a pedestal of subservience. There is something demeaning and faintly embarrassing about the ordeal.

[Babooshka]

It's no different than going to conventions. People pay to meet actors, showrunners, comic book artists etc. I have yet to feel compelled to do it, but some people want an opportunity to meet someone they otherwise would not. People going to see Shatner at a Star Trek convention are not subservient. Paying to meet Axl or whatever musician is the same thing. If anything, it's like going to the zoo, to look at the animals. The packages for musicians could be better though.

[DieselDaisy]

It's no different than going to conventions. People pay to meet actors, showrunners, comic book artists etc. I have yet to feel compelled to do it, but some people want an opportunity to meet someone they otherwise would not. People going to see Shatner at a Star Trek convention are not subservient. Paying to meet Axl or whatever musician is the same thing. If anything, it's like going to the zoo, to look at the animals. The packages for musicians could be better though.

You are correct there. Meet and greets are somewhat vaguely analogous to the masses gawping at the monkey enclosure.

[SoulMonster]

With the band devolving into a pure cash-grab nostalgic circus I have absolutely no problems with high ticket prices. Put them as high as possible, get rich on this tour, real rich, so we can get this charade over with as soon as possible and band can start being motivated by art again and not just catering to fans of the past by soulless nostalgia trips for money.

Edited January 24, 2016 by SoulMonster

[DieselDaisy]

With the band devolving into a pure cash-grab nostalgic circus I have absolutely no problems with high ticket prices. Put them as high as possible, get rich on this tour, real rich, so we can get this charade over with as soon as possible and band can start being motivated by art again and not just catering to fans of the past by soulless nostalgia trips for money.

One of the few times you and I agree, but with the caveat that we still have not seen this band live, nor are privy to all the information. We do not even know who is drumming really? I still have an inkling of hope in new material, just to give the whole thing a bit more artistry.

[maynard]

I have to laugh at fans who think that the nostalgia tour is starting only now, completely ignoring the nostalgia tours and residencies (remember their names?) from the past years.

Gnr now is on the right course for more music and relevancy. People need to realize that with Ashba and Ron Thal, new music would never ever see the light of day.

[oneAXLinamillion]

If so, how do you feel about that?

In the AFD era GNR operated like Aerosmith or ACDC.

Then for UYI Axl seemed to follow the Jagger Stones stadium tour model.

For CD GNR worked like Zeppelin or NIN no videos, just touring.

Now Reunion GNR has full social media presence, hella Merch, $2,500 VIP packages, $350 dollar tickets and a tour that kicks off in Vegas.

To me it seems like the only way to do a GNR reunion. With something so big you can't be all coy about it. They were always a band of the people and this is their definitive statement.

I think they are.

That doesn't make me so proud of it.

Will go to the show(s) anyway, but I really didn't expect from Axl.

[stella]

It's offer and demand, the most primary concept in economics...

Yeah we get the concept....

But life isn't all about money. Maybe the band would get satisfaction from knowing they're allowing genuine fans to see them. Otherwise you just end up playing to corporate lawyers who work at law firms that bought blocks of tickets. Crowds filled with genuine fans bring a better energy than crowds filled with people who maybe like a song or two when it comes on the radio. It's a balance

I do think though that future shows will be bigger and also more reasonably priced

This.

Does anyone remember that interview from way back when where Axl said that he felt that charging people tons of money for VIP meet and greets was disgusting? Oh, how times have changed.

Yeah, yeah, we all get the principles of capitalism, but many top bands do make a point of offering at least some reasonably priced tickets to their shows. No, they don't have to. They do it anyway because they want to be accessible to as many fans as possible. Love him or hate him, Bon Jovi always makes sure there's some cheap seats available. Madonna's tours are among the few that are routinely profitable AND she has a huge, expensive stage show...and for her current tour, the price range is $40 - $350. They could charge double for those $40 tickets and probably still sell out the concert, but they choose not to.

There's nothing wrong with wanting to make money. Musicians have to pay their bills like anyone else, and as mentioned, a tour is expensive. However, when the ticket prices are so out of control that fans either need to be affluent, save for years or go into debt to attend the shows -- or pay a shitload of money for a ticket where they can barely hear or see anything -- it's a bit of a slap in the face. I didn't mind paying $100 for the Wiltern show because it was a small venue and I was very close to the band. I *would* mind paying $100 to be so far away that the band looks like ants onstage and it's easier to watch the Jumbotron all night.

The fans at the shows aren't necessarily going to be dedicated diehards because they paid those prices. There are plenty of rich dilettantes that will be there because they think it's trendy or because they liked SCOM or November Rain at one point in 7th grade.

Edited January 24, 2016 by stella

[RussTCB]

I'm of 2 minds about this. One the one hand, if people are dumb enough to spend that kind of money, then hell, why not take it? On the other hand, if the band offers it and no one goes for it, they really don't lose anything.

Having said that, I do find the whole idea of this VIP shit to be digusting and have felt that way ever since it's been a thing. Also, I would never ever ever ever spend anywhere near that kind of money on something like that.

[dalsh327]

It's more like Van Halen than KISS.

If they do more tours, the price will go down.

I'm of 2 minds about this. One the one hand, if people are dumb enough to spend that kind of money, then hell, why not take it? On the other hand, if the band offers it and no one goes for it, they really don't lose anything.

Having said that, I do find the whole idea of this VIP shit to be digusting and have felt that way ever since it's been a thing. Also, I would never ever ever ever spend anywhere near that kind of money on something like that.

It's their way of scalping their own tickets, if ticket brokers would up with those seats, they'd easily get 3000 a piece. That quote that Axl made about meet and greets is going to bite him in the ass though

Edited January 24, 2016 by dalsh327

[wasted]

With the band devolving into a pure cash-grab nostalgic circus I have absolutely no problems with high ticket prices. Put them as high as possible, get rich on this tour, real rich, so we can get this charade over with as soon as possible and band can start being motivated by art again and not just catering to fans of the past by soulless nostalgia trips for money.

I think this is the way to do it though. Playing the game early, get that money. Which buys some creative freedom.

If they started topless, on heroin at the whisky it would be short lived and maybe considered a failure.

[Nicklord]

One thing I really noticed from reading this forum much more past couple of weeks is that gnr is looked at as classic rock band and dad rock in USA. When I saw them 2 times in 2010 and 2012 in Europe* there was like 10% of people older than 25

edit*

Edited January 25, 2016 by Nicklord

[Ak1nney]

One thing I really noticed from reading this forum much more past couple of weeks is that gnr is looked at as classic rock band and dad rock in USA. When I saw them 2 times in 2010 and 2012 there was like 10% of people older than 25

That's what happens when a band is from roughly 1986-87, Almost 30 years ago... A big chunk of the fans were 15-30 probably around that time. So... 45-60 year olds...

[Nicklord]

One thing I really noticed from reading this forum much more past couple of weeks is that gnr is looked at as classic rock band and dad rock in USA. When I saw them 2 times in 2010 and 2012 there was like 10% of people older than 25

That's what happens when a band is from roughly 1986-87, Almost 30 years ago... A big chunk of the fans were 15-30 probably around that time. So... 45-60 year olds...

Yeah, that's reasonable. I just wanted to say who it seems that they never gained new fans in USA. In Europe it seems like they did even by almost not doing anything new

Edited January 25, 2016 by Nicklord

[wasted]

Only 10% over 25 seems low?

GNR fans could very well be Star Wars fans and saw Patsy Kensits nip in Lethal Weapon 2. I digress.

But maybe the Star Wars part might be merch relevant. I'll buy an Axl Vader figure no problem.

The more people pay for tickets or VIP packages means the more people want it and the more successful and important it is.

Edited January 25, 2016 by wasted

[Nicklord]

Only 10% over 25 seems low?

GNR fans could very well be Star Wars fans and saw Patsy Kensits nip in Lethal Weapon 2. I digress.

But maybe the Star Wars part might be merch relevant. I'll but an Axl Vader figure no problem.

The more people pay for tickets or VIP packages means the more people want it and the more successful and important it is.

Only 10% in Europe. I forgot to mention that