Izzy Stradlin comments on reunion

[BOSSY78]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

This is all pointless discussion as we are not even talking about licensing and recording partnerships but touring and the percentage of gate receipts.

There is an entertainment partnership renewed in 2013. I posted link on I believe page 37 or 38 if anyone wants to read all documents listed on it. 

Maybe post some breakdowns tours is listed under the entertainment license I believe.

Axl Slash and duff are listed under it. AgaiI've been going over the who 92 contract and on mobile right now so feel free to follow my links I posted.

[BOSSY78]

3 hours ago, Slash787 said:

I guess he sold cause for the Vegas DVD which had GNR songs, Duff and Slash had to sign off, Izzy was not mentioned anywhere. 

Same thing for Roxy DVD which had GNR songs, Axl and Duff had to sign off. 

I read somewhere that he cut a deal that they pay him a % up to 1997 for something. 

But yeah Steven and Izzy get royalties but they have no right to make decision that the song will be used or not in a movie etc etc 

There is quite a bit about majority when it comes to things in contract. Some things need unanimous some majority. Some need both Slash and Axl.

I dad that too about the 97 thing butthe contract thus far that I've read doesn't give numbers or how many years on Izzy.

He maintained royalties.

Maybe he was given yearly stipend of his payout until 97 idk

 

[melonhead87]

15 hours ago, GNRDK said:

Some of you guys thinks it's just about "money". But you forget about the symbolic meaning the money has. If you are paying Axl, Duff and Slash more money, then you are automatically saying that they have more importance and value for the band, Guns N' Roses. And come on, some of you, seriously. Izzy is by far just - if not more - important to Guns N' Roses in form of the song writing etc.

This is exactly what we are saying. No one in a business is making the same across the board. Its based on importance and what you bring to the business. Again separate song writing and a world tour. Sure they need Izzy to make music. GNR isnt making music though. We're talking a world tour where Izzy is far from the biggest factor, as we can all see based on its success. Take out your emotions and think like a businessman. 

[Mendez]

No effort spared

to save what we had

Edited September 11, 2016 by Mendez

[melonhead87]

13 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

I'm not interested in any of this shit. It is all business and money and branding and ''Axl's version'' of what Guns is which is in effect the ''partnership'' (none of the others wanted the partnership). When Guns were formed and Appetite was released it was five equals.

So basically when presented with facts and logic, you disregard them. Got it. Moving on...

[BOSSY78]

2 hours ago, AlterL said:

I honestly don't think they have a salary. That they're employees sure, why not but they're probably and most likely still being paid in some percentage arrangement. In the past it used to be3 6% for Axl 33%Slash and30% Duff those numbers probably changed once They got back together (probably giving more money to Axl) but they're all still making a fortune with this tour.

Those are numbers I had too.

I agree as do many likely those numbers have changed a bit now.

[Blackstar]

@BOSSY78, I found the 1992/1993 contract on the other forum and read it (until now I had read only the two page fragments that can be found in Chinese Whispers). It may not be related to this tour, because we don't know the form of the current entity, if it's a reconstruction of the 1992 partnership or something new (my assumption is that Slash and Duff have become partners in or with the band Axl formed after quitting in 1995), but it's an interesting read if someone wants to know about this stuff.

There is nothing in the contract about Izzy selling his share. It is known that he sold it, but there's no mention of it in the document, apparently because there was a separate arrangement.

From what I understand:

- The first partnership was established when the band got signed by Geffen, with Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff and Steven being equal partners with 20% each; this is interesting, because, based on Slash's book, I thought, as many others, that Axl had 25% and Steven 15%, but apparently those percentages Slash mentioned were referring only to publishing rights (i.e. revenues from songwriting and performing credit) and not to their shares in the partnership.

- Steven was demoted to an employee before been fired in March 1990, and the partnership reformed as a partnership of 4 equal members (25% each). Izzy quit that reformed first partnership.

- The new partnership of Axl, Slash and Duff, established with the 1992 contract, was effective in retrospect from the day after Izzy quit (Sept. 10 1991 according to the document). From that day to the day the contract was signed, the profits were considered as having been split equally between the 3. From the day of the signature, the shares would be 36 1/3 Axl, 33 1/3 Slash, 30 1/3 Duff. Those shares included profits from record selling, touring revenues, merchandising profits and 'miscellaneous' revenues. The publishing profits would be divided in respect to songwriting and performing credits.

- If a partner quit or was expelled from the partnership, he would have to sell his share equally to the other partners. This wouldn't apply to Izzy, because he wasn't a member of the new partnership (but probably there was a similar prediction in the first partnership contract).

- According to the contract, Izzy and Steven would continue to receive their share (20%) from the "old records profits" (meaning AFD and Lies, which were recorded and released during the first partnership). Izzy would also have to receive (it isn't mentioned, but it can be assumed) his 25% share for the shows of the Illusion tour that took place the time he was an equal member of the first partnership (probably that was the money he was owed).

- The Illusions were released after the date the new partnership of the 3 was effective. This means that Izzy would receive only publishing profits from them.

- All the decisions regarding the management of the band should have the signatures of Axl and Slash. If there was disagreement between them, Duff would be involved in the decision making and a majority of 2 would be needed. A unanimous vote of the 3 would be needed in the case of accepting another person as partner. In the case of expulsion of a partner, the signatures of the other 2 would be needed.

- There were predictions of what would happen if a partner died or was disabled due to health problems.

- If 2 of the partners quit, it would be obligatory for the partnership to dissolve, liquidate its assets and split the profit equally to the 3 partners.

- The infamous clause which granted Axl the name in case he quit or was expelled was probably a later 1993 addition (according to the Chinese Whispers info and Duff's book). It's in this document, which was signed in Oct. 1992, but it seems that it was typed over on the original document, as it goes beyond the bottom margin of the page.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Blackstar

[The Macaroni Incident?]

GNR haven't done jack shit since Izzy left in 1991.

[bigpoop]

That's the bottom line truth. Everything that matters was set in stone by 1991, all of this 'keeping the brand alive' stuff is made up nonsense.

[wagrez]

14 minutes ago, The Macaroni Incident? said:

GNR haven't done jack shit since Izzy left in 1991.

Izzy too... after leave guns... and dont come with his solo albuns cause they are shit.

Edited September 12, 2016 by wagrez
yed

[BOSSY78]

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

@BOSSY78, I found the 1992/1993 contract on the other forum and read it (until now I had read only the two pages that can be found in Chinese Whispers). It may not be related to this tour, because we don't know the form of the current entity, if it's a reconstruction of the 1992 partnership or something new (my assumption is that Slash and Duff have become partners in or with the band Axl formed after quitting in 1995), but it's an interesting read if someone wants to know about this stuff.

There is nothing in the contract about Izzy selling his share. It is known that he sold it, but there's no mention of it in the document, apparently because there was a separate arrangement.

From what I understand:

- The first partnership was established when the band got signed by Geffen, with Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff and Steven being equal partners with 20% each (this is interesting, because, based on Slash's book, I thought, as many others, that Axl had 25% and Steven 15%).

- Steven was demoted to an employee before been fired in March 1990, and the partnership reformed as a partnership of 4 equal members. Izzy quit that reformed first partnership.

- The new partnership of Axl, Slash and Duff, established with the 1992 contract, was effective in retrospect from the day after Izzy quit (Sept. 10 1991 according to the document). From that day to the day the contract was signed, the profits were considered as having been split equally between the 3. From the day of the signature, the shares would be 36 1/3 Axl, 33 1/3 Slash, 30 1/3 Duff. Those shares included profits from record selling, touring revenues, merchandising profits and 'miscellaneous' revenues. The publishing profits would be divided in respect to songwriting and performing credits.

- If a partner quit or was expelled from the partnership, he would have to sell his share equally to the other partners. This wouldn't apply to Izzy, because he wasn't a member of the new partnership (but probably there was a similar prediction in the first partnership contract).

- According to the contract, Izzy and Steven would continue to receive their share (20%) from the "old records profits" (meaning AFD and Lies, which were recorded and released during the first partnership). Izzy would also have to receive (it isn't mentioned, but it can be assumed) his 25% share for the shows of the Illusion tour that took place the time he was an equal member of the first partnership (probably that was the money he was owed).

- The Illusions were released after the date the new partnership of the 3 was effective. This means that Izzy would receive only publishing profits from them.

- All the decisions regarding the management of the band should have the signatures of Axl and Slash. If there was disagreement between them, Duff would be involved in the decision making and a majority of 2 would be needed. A unanimous vote of the 3 would be needed in the case of accepting another person as partner. In the case of expulsion of a partner, the signatures of the other 2 would be needed.

- There were predictions of what would happen if a partner died or was disabled due to health problems.

- If 2 of the partners quit, it would be obligatory for the partnership to dissolve, liquidate its assets and split the profit equally to the 3 partners.

- The infamous clause which granted Axl the name in case he quit or was expelled was probably a later 1993 addition (according to the Chinese Whispers info).

Thanks for breaking that down for everyone. On way home from work so will comment more soon.

The one I have has the clause in it and initials on the side of it and other parts of it.

Page 36 or 37 has more stuff that shows partnership stuff too. I plan on sifting through that more too. It's all interesting stuff.

[Blackstar]

3 minutes ago, BOSSY78 said:

Thanks for breaking that down for everyone. On way home from work so will comment more soon.

The one I have has the clause in it and initials on the side of it and other parts of it.

Page 36 or 37 has more stuff that shows partnership stuff too. I plan on sifting through that more too. It's all interesting stuff.

Yes, we read the same. This particular page, from the same source can be found in Chinese Whispers.

Maybe the document could be posted here. A member of that forum uploaded it and it's public.

Edited September 12, 2016 by Blackstar

[Jane M.]

@BOSSY78 and @Blackstar thank  you both for taking the time to explain everything.

[GNRfan2008]

2 hours ago, Pink Rose said:

It's time Axl did something right for once in his life.  Forget the past two and a half decades and erase all that bad blood.  Get rid of your ego, pride, greed and selfishness.   Start a completely new partnership with all five original members and split everything equally.  Those five guys are what made this band the greatest band of all time, the guys that made the sound that rocked the world.  Remove just one if them and it's no longer Guns n Roses.  Everyone is equally important.  If he did this he could go from zero to hero. He'd be the biggest hero in rock history, instead of it's biggest loser and disappointment.

 

For once in his life eh? Seems like a melodramatic statement, especially since you then said he was part of the greatest band ever. Must have done something right back then. And I'm not sure Axl has 100% control over the situation. You think Slash after his divorce wants to give up a huge percentage to someone else? I doubt it. 

[Magnus Cavalerra]

Business have no place for sentimental person.

[Juliette]

2 hours ago, Blackstar said:

@BOSSY78, I found the 1992/1993 contract on the other forum and read it (until now I had read only the two pages that can be found in Chinese Whispers). It may not be related to this tour, because we don't know the form of the current entity, if it's a reconstruction of the 1992 partnership or something new (my assumption is that Slash and Duff have become partners in or with the band Axl formed after quitting in 1995), but it's an interesting read if someone wants to know about this stuff.

There is nothing in the contract about Izzy selling his share. It is known that he sold it, but there's no mention of it in the document, apparently because there was a separate arrangement.

From what I understand:

- The first partnership was established when the band got signed by Geffen, with Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff and Steven being equal partners with 20% each (this is interesting, because, based on Slash's book, I thought, as many others, that Axl had 25% and Steven 15%).

- Steven was demoted to an employee before been fired in March 1990, and the partnership reformed as a partnership of 4 equal members. Izzy quit that reformed first partnership.

- The new partnership of Axl, Slash and Duff, established with the 1992 contract, was effective in retrospect from the day after Izzy quit (Sept. 10 1991 according to the document). From that day to the day the contract was signed, the profits were considered as having been split equally between the 3. From the day of the signature, the shares would be 36 1/3 Axl, 33 1/3 Slash, 30 1/3 Duff. Those shares included profits from record selling, touring revenues, merchandising profits and 'miscellaneous' revenues. The publishing profits would be divided in respect to songwriting and performing credits.

- If a partner quit or was expelled from the partnership, he would have to sell his share equally to the other partners. This wouldn't apply to Izzy, because he wasn't a member of the new partnership (but probably there was a similar prediction in the first partnership contract).

- According to the contract, Izzy and Steven would continue to receive their share (20%) from the "old records profits" (meaning AFD and Lies, which were recorded and released during the first partnership). Izzy would also have to receive (it isn't mentioned, but it can be assumed) his 25% share for the shows of the Illusion tour that took place the time he was an equal member of the first partnership (probably that was the money he was owed).

- The Illusions were released after the date the new partnership of the 3 was effective. This means that Izzy would receive only publishing profits from them.

- All the decisions regarding the management of the band should have the signatures of Axl and Slash. If there was disagreement between them, Duff would be involved in the decision making and a majority of 2 would be needed. A unanimous vote of the 3 would be needed in the case of accepting another person as partner. In the case of expulsion of a partner, the signatures of the other 2 would be needed.

- There were predictions of what would happen if a partner died or was disabled due to health problems.

- If 2 of the partners quit, it would be obligatory for the partnership to dissolve, liquidate its assets and split the profit equally to the 3 partners.

- The infamous clause which granted Axl the name in case he quit or was expelled was probably a later 1993 addition (according to the Chinese Whispers info).

This is old. There are other articles in the same internet site that said the things changed in 1996, axl owned the name, etc. Said for the same Slash.
 

Quote

@DOUBLE TALKIN JIVE

the craziest thing of this whole thing is how axl feels that the piece of shit that the CD was such a monumental masterpiece and that anyone who wasn't involved sort of plays second fiddle whereas all of the best HITS yes best HITS were written by none other mr straddlin

 

The Cd was acclaimed for several critics (press articles) and so many people bought the material. (If you don´t like it is other thing).

The HITS HITS were written by Axl. "November rain" is maybe the more successful song of the band (critical - acclaimed and has more than 650 k of views on youtube). Other hit: "Sweet child of mine" was written by Axl too,-with Izzys collaboration but was a Axl story- "Coma" was written by Axl, "Estranged" was written by axl, "Don´t cry" was written by Axl with collaboration, "You could be mine" were written by the two (Izzy and Axl)  ..etc.

You are overestimating Izzy a bit.

 

18 hours ago, Slash787 said:

I know what you are trying to say and from a business point of view, you are somewhat correct, this is how things work now days and yeah the 3 of them have taken this decision and not only Axl. 

Well I´m referring about the money because would affect Duff and Slash percentage, I´m still thinking that Axl and the TB (as manager of the band) have the control of the brand and make the decisions, and for what happened in court the last years.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BOSSY78]

@Blackstar Here are some more links on partnership.

http://lizerbramlaw.com/2016/01/19/owns-guns-n-roses/

First one lists links to the government sites that have registered partnership. 

http://tsdr.uspto.gov/#caseNumber=74295264&caseType=SERIAL_NO&searchType=statusSearch

The one above is a direct link to entertainment partnership which includes concerts etc.

It was renewed in 2013 for ten more years.

If you go through documents and suv categories of them you can see anything filed. For example that one was renewed twice. Bot for ten years. 

So with that 92 contract and them still holding some type of partnership I'm wondering how far we are to assume it may be why Izzy isn't getting equal.

Again I could be wrong but it's at least a guess and why I brought up all this stuff.

 

I'm not familiar with Chinese whispers. I will check it out. 

You know I have to admit the contract seemed very fair. I know those who read others books made it like the percents were so unfair.

Also noticed the dates of Duff and Slash signature were almost a week apart. Meaning no holding an audience thing likely didn't happen.

Thanks for going through that stuff. It was hard for me to get some to understand why without knowing the truththe partnership agreement could be why this is going on. And since I've found some forms of the partnership still exists today it's a valid thought.

Like you I found nothing about Izzy's amounts just date he left partnership and other old interviews from him or others about saling his share minus his prior royalties.

Also noticed it breaks down recording and performing and how proceeds would or wouldn't be split. For example solo performances and recordings aren't. Two of the partners would have to say record together.

I'm reading more on that part but interesting stuff. Nice refresher. 

 

[double talkin jive mfkr]

On 9/11/2016 at 8:41 PM, Jane M. said:

it's all greed. bottom line

Double talkin jive motherfucker is probably one of the best live songs in general for GNR and guess who wrote it? this particular one sorum shines on as well 

Edited September 12, 2016 by double talkin jive mfkr

[double talkin jive mfkr]

2 minutes ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

Double talkin jive motherfucker is probably one of the best live songs in general for GNR and guess who wrote it? this particular one sorum shines on as well 

so if you wanna call a spade a spade - what axl is doing now is profiting off of Izzy 

[Słash]

Don't you cry tonight, I still love you Izzy. 

[xBrownstonex]

8 hours ago, Slash787 said:

Everyone is looting this thread. 

Especially you man. You post way too much

[Blackstar]

2 hours ago, Juliette said:

This is old. There are other articles in the same internet site that said the things changed in 1996, axl owned the name, etc. Said for the same Slash.
 

My post is about the 1992 contract and not the name. I know Axl took the name.

[Słash]

40 minutes ago, xBrownstonex said:

Especially you man. You post way too much

Well we are on a forum arent we?

[bikka]

7 hours ago, Blackstar said:

- The Illusions were released after the date the new partnership of the 3 was effective. This means that Izzy would receive only publishing profits from them.

What are publishing profits if record sales are listed separately? Does it mean Izzy is not getting anything from UYI sales???

[xBrownstonex]

56 minutes ago, Slash787 said:

Well we are on a forum arent we?

Still no reason to flood the forum