Is Chinese Democracy the most "Guns" record out of all solo projects?

[Free Bird]

5 hours ago, Blackstar said:

I agree that 5 o'clock Somewhere is not southern rock influenced; it's what Axl has described as "Slash based blues rock". That Axl discarded it as southern rock is something we know only from Duff's book (Duff says he agreed with Axl on that). I've always found it strange (regardless of whether it actually sounds like southern rock or not), because, if there are any GnR songs with southern rock/country rock elements, these are Axl's songs like Dead Horse and Breakdown; not to mention SCOM, which Axl has said he considered (and wanted it) to be GnR's tribute to Lynyrd Skynyrd.

I think that maybe Duff projected his own opinion on Axl or he used the term "southern rock" as a synonym to "blues rock".

This what Axl himself said:

Rose: ... I mean, what people don't know is, the [Slash's] Snakepit album, that is the Guns N' Roses album. I just wouldn't do it.

Loder: Really?

Rose: Oh, yeah! Duff walked out on it, and I walked out on it, because I wasn't allowed to be any part of it. It's like, "No, you do this, that's how it is." And I didn't believe in it. I thought that there were riffs and parts and some ideas, I thought, that needed to be developed. I had no problem working on it, or working with it, but you know, as is, I think I'm with the public on that one.

http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/articles/showarticle.php?articleid=28

So, according to Axl, the reason he rejected it is that he wanted to make changes and Slash wouldn't let him. Slash has said (Marc Canter confirmed it, too) that Axl finally agreed to do 4-5 songs and he told him "forget it, it's gone now".

In the end it was all about control. There had always been disagreements between them on the musical direction, but while until then they had been able to work it out and come to a consensus of some sort, at that point the "artistic differences" became part of the power game and they were ditching each other's ideas for not being GnR. I find it similarly strange that Slash didn't want to do a Pearl Jam sounding album and then he formed a STP sounding band with Scott Weiland.

The question is, who's telling us the truth? If it's true what Axl's saying here then I'm on his side.

Slash said Axl rejected the whole record just to come back after a while to work on 3 songs. But at the time the record was finished.

So who do you believe? Do you believe Slash brought a complete record to Axl with melodys, lyrics and song structure? 

He never worked like that and still doesn't.

And Axl basically told us he wasn't allowed to made changes on the album, but then choosed three songs to work on them. When you aren't allowed to work on a whole record, why should you be allowed to work on some songs of it while the rest won't get used?

That's not logical to me but you are entitled to believe what you want.

@Rovim: If 5o'clock is ... Southern Cock Rock ... which term would you use for CD? 

I would say it's Techno-influenced-progressive rock.

 

[Rovim]

34 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

The question is, who's telling us the truth? If it's true what Axl's saying here then I'm on his side.

Slash said Axl rejected the whole record just to come back after a while to work on 3 songs. But at the time the record was finished.

So who do you believe? Do you believe Slash brought a complete record to Axl with melodys, lyrics and song structure? 

He never worked like that and still doesn't.

And Axl basically told us he wasn't allowed to made changes on the album, but then choosed three songs to work on them. When you aren't allowed to work on a whole record, why should you be allowed to work on some songs of it while the rest won't get used?

That's not logical to me but you are entitled to believe what you want.

@Rovim: If 5o'clock is ... Southern Cock Rock ... which term would you use for CD? 

I would say it's Techno-influenced-progressive rock.

 

It's bold of you to ask me that sort of a question (probably a huge mistake) but in a nutshell:

Chinese is Guns N' Roses filtered through Queen and industrial and techno sounds like Moby (like in the end of prostitutes) and NIN (Better)

It combines genres that were never combined before in that way. It's still hard rock, but with alternative rock and metal shred. You can find Pink Floyd in Sorry, classic Guns in SOD, huge power chord riffs in I.R.S, and solos like Estranged in There Was A Time.

Some sections sound like pop but then there aren't many catchy choruses.

Song structures and lyric are very varied. Again, it reminds me a lot of Queen in production and sense of grandness and how versatile Axl's voice is here (like it or not).

Flamenco guitars, everything you can think of is merged to form an album that has a lot of sub rock genres, old and modern, distilled to a unified new type of Guns sound.

It's Axl taking the blueprint and running with it. Like for example, metal was always a part of the classic Guns sound cause of Slash. Slash shreds sometimes or plays a lot of notes.

So now you have Bucket's Better bridge riff and his I.R.S solo, but he can still do the lyrical thing with his Sorry solo, or bang out a long outro like the best of them.

It's Guns supercharged with what Axl wanted to do in Guns but couldn't.

What ties it all together is Axl. Once he puts his vocals on a tune, it's gonna sound hard rock, but he found a wider spectrum to play in. Catcher In The Rye is the crown jewel of the record. For that one he pushed forward lyrically, and the music is just as good.

Better was the successful experiment. It proved Axl was right all along. But other than that, Chinese was not a huge departure from Illusions. He had My World in there. You could kinda see he wanted to update the classic sound which is what he did eventually.

It's a hybrid. Half Guns, half Axl Rose solo album.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Rovim

[Free Bird]

1 hour ago, Rovim said:

It's bold of you to ask me that sort of a question (probably a huge mistake) but in a nutshell:

Chinese is Guns N' Roses filtered through Queen and industrial and techno sounds like Moby (like in the end of prostitutes) and NIN (Better)

It combines genres that were never combined before in that way. It's still hard rock, but with alternative rock and metal shred. You can find Pink Floyd in Sorry, classic Guns in SOD, huge power chord riffs in I.R.S, and solos like Estranged in There Was A Time.

Some sections sound like pop but then there aren't many catchy choruses.

Song structures and lyric are very varied. Again, it reminds me a lot of Queen in production and sense of grandness and how versatile Axl's voice is here (like it or not).

Flamenco guitars, everything you can think of is merged to form an album that has a lot of sub rock genres, old and modern, distilled to a unified new type of Guns sound.

It's Axl taking the blueprint and running with it. Like for example, metal was always a part of the classic Guns sound cause of Slash. Slash shreds sometimes or plays a lot of notes.

So now you have Bucket's Better bridge riff and his I.R.S solo, but he can still do the lyrical thing with his Sorry solo, or bang out a long outro like the best of them.

It's Guns supercharged with what Axl wanted to do in Guns but couldn't.

What ties it all together is Axl. Once he puts his vocals on a tune, it's gonna sound hard rock, but he found a wider spectrum to play in. Catcher In The Rye is the crown jewel of the record. For that one he pushed forward lyrically, and the music is just as good.

Better was the successful experiment. It proved Axl was right all along. But other than that, Chinese was not a huge departure from Illusions. He had My World in there. You could kinda see he wanted to update the classic sound which is what he did eventually.

It's a hybrid. Half Guns, half Axl Rose solo album.

No  essay, just a term.

[Rovim]

37 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

No  essay, just a term.

A combination of some Guns, Faith No More, NIN, Led Zeppelin, Nirvana, Pink Floyd, shred metal, and pop.

You can't say it's Use Your Illusion 3 cause not every tune is Street Of Dreams for example.

Not so easy to categorize it other than Hard Rock cause there are many types of totally different tunes. Groups of songs that make sense together, but not theoretically on the same album.

Catcher and Shackler's on the same album.

I guess Alternative Hard Rock. But there's nothing quite like it that goes for classic and modern. The sum is greater than the parts. It's the combination of flavors and ingredients that make the recipe plus the way you cook it. Axl is a fine cook.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Rovim

[Free Bird]

Techno influenced progressive rock

Not really Guns like

[Rovim]

59 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

Techno influenced progressive rock

Not really Guns like

Some songs are, others it's not obvious.

So again, you have a more varied approach. Street Of Dreams and There Was A Time may remind you more of Guns, while Shackler's, Prostitute, If The World and Scraped are something else. More of like trying to fuse other things in there. Every song sets it's own rules.

Better is a combination of the classic with the new. Catcher recalls Yesterdays but introduces a new theme lyrically. The goal was to strike a balance between bringing enough old Guns elements that Axl liked but make it not dated with embracing what he liked that was alien to the Guns sound or just was never attempted.

It started with My World, than Oh My God, than he mastered it with Better as far as combining his new approach and some of that Guns magic goes.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Rovim

[DieselDaisy]

Your deluded. You're wasted. Netherland is where you two live.

[Rovim]

8 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Your deluded. You're wasted. Netherland is where you two live.

Sometimes when I discuss NuGuns with you I feel like you're Danny Glover from Lethal Weapon and everyone who likes Chinese is crazy Riggs with a death wish.

 

Edited November 17, 2016 by Rovim

[wasted]

CD seems like alternative rock album to me. 

Snakepit seems like an Aerosmith type album. 

[DieselDaisy]

33 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Sometimes when I discuss NuGuns with you I feel like you're Danny Glover from Lethal Weapon and everyone who likes Chinese is crazy Riggs with a death wish.

 

Airy fairy land - you and wasted. I'll give you an accolade though: no one is as passionate about the whole Chinese thing than you two.

[Free Bird]

1 hour ago, Rovim said:

Some songs are, others it's not obvious.

So again, you have a more varied approach. Street Of Dreams and There Was A Time may remind you more of Guns, while Shackler's, Prostitute, If The World and Scraped are something else. More of like trying to fuse other things in there. Every song sets it's own rules.

Better is a combination of the classic with the new. Catcher recalls Yesterdays but introduces a new theme lyrically. The goal was to strike a balance between bringing enough old Guns elements that Axl liked but make it not dated with embracing what he liked that was alien to the Guns sound or just was never attempted.

It started with My World, than Oh My God, than he mastered it with Better as far as combining his new approach and some of that Guns magic goes.

See what you do? In one case you generalize, in the other you start to define.

 

Edited November 17, 2016 by Free Bird

[Rovim]

1 hour ago, Free Bird said:

See what you do? In one case you generalize, in the other you start to define.

 

So which one should I pick? I assume you can only use one at a time? which one is the right one for this discussion in your opinion? what changes would you have made to my reply? why don't we just save time by me writing down your opinion real quick so I can just copy/paste it and pass it as my own?

PM me the rest of your Gn'R opinions with your chosen style of writing with just the right amount of going in detail. I'll just post your thoughts and that way, with time and practice, I'll improve and eventually become more like you, dear mullet master.

 

 

 

Edited November 17, 2016 by Rovim

[maynard]

Rovim is one of the most annoying posters to ever post here.

[wasted]

Every song on CD has it's own production values. All my concubines will have the finest luxuries. 

[Rovim]

17 minutes ago, maynard said:

Rovim is one of the most annoying posters to ever post here.

Shut up, fart. Your repetitive negative shit is the worst.

[maynard]

1 hour ago, Rovim said:

Shut up, fart. Your repetitive negative shit is the worst.

So you don't like repetitve shit? Well, Street of Dreams is UYI meets Queen with a lil bit of Elton John. Brutally honest Axl is not retired, CD2 will still happen. Shacklers is like Yesterdays except it's completely different but I'll keep saying shit like that to try to validate CD as a GNR album. Prostitute is 21st century NR would sound great with Slash, real progression for the GNR sound.

[Rovim]

9 minutes ago, maynard said:

So you don't like repetitve shit? Well, Street of Dreams is UYI meets Queen with a lil bit of Elton John. Brutally honest Axl is not retired, CD2 will still happen. Shacklers is like Yesterdays except it's completely different but I'll keep saying shit like that to try to validate CD as a GNR album. Prostitute is 21st century NR would sound great with Slash, real progression for the GNR sound.

Back on topic now? are you done, or do you need to contribute more non-annoying posts to the discussion? you're repeating an 8 year old joke. Please stop with your attention whoring.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Rovim

[Good, Fuck'n, Night.]

CD is to GnR what "give me some reggae" is to Knocking on heavens door. 

[maynard]

I'm not joking. Better is like yesterdays meets Rammstein + Aerosmith. The lick at 1:23 is like Joe Perry meets NIN. Don't you agree?

[Rovim]

[Free Bird]

2 hours ago, maynard said:

So you don't like repetitve shit? Well, Street of Dreams is UYI meets Queen with a lil bit of Elton John. Brutally honest Axl is not retired, CD2 will still happen. Shacklers is like Yesterdays except it's completely different but I'll keep saying shit like that to try to validate CD as a GNR album. Prostitute is 21st century NR would sound great with Slash, real progression for the GNR sound.

Thank you maynard. Post of the month 

[Free Bird]

4 hours ago, Rovim said:

So which one should I pick? I assume you can only use one at a time? which one is the right one for this discussion in your opinion? what changes would you have made to my reply? why don't we just save time by me writing down your opinion real quick so I can just copy/paste it and pass it as my own?

PM me the rest of your Gn'R opinions with your chosen style of writing with just the right amount of going in detail. I'll just post your thoughts and that way, with time and practice, I'll improve and eventually become more like you, dear mullet master.

 

 

 

It's not about which one you should pick, it's about your double standards. Praising one album as the holy grail while understating the other as wait ... southern cock ... while it's obviously not southern rock.

 

[Rovim]

22 minutes ago, Free Bird said:

It's not about which one you should pick, it's about your double standards. Praising one album as the holy grail while understating the other as wait ... southern cock ... while it's obviously not southern rock.

 

Honestly, to me that album proved Slash needed other songwriters to have enough great ideas for a full Guns album. I think he's a great riff writer and lead player. He comes up with 2 to 3 tunes give or take for every solo release that could have been turned into great Guns tunes.

So 3 or 4 song ideas from IFOS, Contraband had a few, and WOF.

But none of his albums work as well for my Gn'R fix as Chinese still does.

I don't have double standards, I never said or thought Chinese is a holy grail album or perfect. But I do think it's a much better release compared to anything Slash has released in any of his bands album to album.

And now with Slash playing the material live, I can hear how the studio versions of the Chinese tunes would have sounded like and it sounds way more Guns to me than Snakepit or Slash's solo albums.

 

 

Edited November 17, 2016 by Rovim

[maynard]

This I Love with Slash is like Broadway musical meets Aerosmith - Jimmy Page era - plus a mix of Spice Girls and Cradle of Filth specially in the chorus. Axl sounds like a mix of Barry White and Tim Armstrong if punk rock was done by black people. Synth reminds me of Nofx.

[Blackstar]

12 hours ago, Free Bird said:

The question is, who's telling us the truth? If it's true what Axl's saying here then I'm on his side.

Slash said Axl rejected the whole record just to come back after a while to work on 3 songs. But at the time the record was finished.

So who do you believe? Do you believe Slash brought a complete record to Axl with melodys, lyrics and song structure? 

He never worked like that and still doesn't.

And Axl basically told us he wasn't allowed to made changes on the album, but then choosed three songs to work on them. When you aren't allowed to work on a whole record, why should you be allowed to work on some songs of it while the rest won't get used?

That's not logical to me but you are entitled to believe what you want.

 

What I believe, based on the story each of them told us, other sources (Duff, Marc Canter) and the facts, is that Slash brought the songs to Axl as instrumentals. Axl didn't like them as they were (neither did Duff) and wanted to add other "ingredients" or use some of the riffs and build something else on them, "modern sounding", Pearl Jam influenced or whatever. Slash wouldn't have it. It was like "You did what you wanted with the Illusions, but not this time; no changes, no messing; you work on it as it is or leave it". Axl left it. Slash worked it with Gilby and the others and wrote lyrics with Eric Dover without Axl knowing, then recorded it. In the meantime, Axl had second thoughts and decided to work with some of the songs as they were and Slash said "too late, I've already recorded it".

On topic, none of the solo albums is a GnR album or close imo. They all could be GnR albums, good or bad, with the input of the other original members.

Edited November 17, 2016 by Blackstar