Is Chinese Democracy the most "Guns" record out of all solo projects?

[Ace Nova]

I've been an original band enthusiast since the beginning of this forum.  But I sill think that Chinese Democracy is the best work anyone of them has done as a completed project, without each other.

 

 

Edited November 12, 2016 by Kasanova King

[cooker]

You serious?

[Magnus Cavalerra]

You should made a poll, just pick best/definitive album from each member during solo era and see how it goes.

However i agree about CD tho.

[DieselDaisy]

Awful.

[Modano09]

I like it. There's just a lot of bitterness because it's "not GNR". 

 

[DieselDaisy]

22 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

I like it. There's just a lot of bitterness because it's "not GNR". 

 

I wouldn't call it 'bitterness' but there was certainly a lot of pained eardrums because it was complete and utter excrement.

[BreakDown2014]

By far the best thing any of the big 5 has done since the Illusions. I completely agree with OP

[Modano09]

7 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I wouldn't call it 'bitterness' but there was certainly a lot of pained eardrums because it was complete and utter excrement.

That's your opinion. Music is subjective. I don't think anything Izzy or Slash have done outside of GNR is anything special but that's just my personal preference.

[DieselDaisy]

11 minutes ago, Modano09 said:

That's your opinion. Music is subjective. I don't think anything Izzy or Slash have done outside of GNR is anything special but that's just my personal preference.

I'm shocked! I had you as a big Adler's Appetite fan!

[wasted]

As a Guns records yes. No one else came close to writing GNR material as good as Chi dem, Better, Twat, Shackler's, Sorry, This I Love. 

What is surprising is that Slash didn't write another Jungle. Izzy didn't fully realised a Brownstone or Dust n Bones. 

That's probably Axl wasn't there to push them to produce that finished product. 

Stuff like Fall to Pieces and By the Sword have the potential. Time Gone by or Shuffle it All and many more I hear the potential.

But the desire to make a GNR level album wasn't even there. They don't want to collab and make everything an anthem. 

So Axl's attitude and style do shape a GNR album. 

[BorderlineCrazy]

I totally disagree, there are a bunch of other albums done by those guys that I like more than Chinese. Contraband and Ain't Life Grand are my favorites.

There's no right or wrong answer, though. To each their own.

[DieselDaisy]

14 minutes ago, wasted said:

As a Guns records yes. No one else came close to writing GNR material as good as Chi dem, Better, Twat, Shackler's, Sorry, This I Love. 

What is surprising is that Slash didn't write another Jungle. Izzy didn't fully realised a Brownstone or Dust n Bones. 

That's probably Axl wasn't there to push them to produce that finished product. 

Stuff like Fall to Pieces and By the Sword have the potential. Time Gone by or Shuffle it All and many more I hear the potential.

But the desire to make a GNR level album wasn't even there. They don't want to collab and make everything an anthem. 

So Axl's attitude and style do shape a GNR album. 

Yip. 500 Pitman farts would have really escalated 117 degrees.

Izzy's music is perfect as it is. I do not even want it to sound or be 'gnr'.

 

[AxlRoseCDII]

I love Chinese Democracy, an excellent album inside and out minus a few quirks. To me, it's technically a Guns n' Roses album and I view it as a legitimate one, although I see the points that people make on why it isn't one. It's splitting hairs. To me it's technically GN'R and it is right up there in terms of sound and quality as the others.

Velvet Revolver's Libertad came pretty close to what I'd consider Guns n' Roses, though. An underrated album that has some sick riffs from Slash, classic bass lines from Duff and well I guess Matt Sorum is there too. Not Scott's best album vocally but as a whole project I consider it the best thing Slash and Duff have done outside of Guns.

Edited November 10, 2016 by AxlRoseCDII
Afterthought

[wasted]

38 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Yip. 500 Pitman farts would have really escalated 117 degrees.

Izzy's music is perfect as it is. I do not even want it to sound or be 'gnr'.

 

Didn't say that. It's fine as it is. But GNR records have a more hard rock or classic rock finish than Izzy solo. Like I said 1 or 2 songs could work as GNR, but single wise and in terms of epics or more progresive elements that are evident in GNR's albums, it's just not there. 

Even without trying Chi dem, Better, SOD are better GNR singles than anything Izzy or Slash did. Then only Axl could do This I Love, Madagascar, Twat and Catcher it seems. 

 

[Kickingthehabit]

Slither is the modern Jungle.

Not a single good riff on Chinese.

[WhazUp]

2 hours ago, Kasanova King said:

 

Chinese Democracy is by far the best work anyone of them has done as a completed project.  It destroys anything Slash, Duff or Izzy made on their own, including VR. 

 

 

Contraband and Izzy's Ju Ju Hound record are way better and more cohesive IMO.  

[Billsfan]

I have to agree with the OP. And I have to also point out that no where in that as I reading anything that says the other guys material necessarily sucks, just figured I'd point that out and nip that out of the us.

Ultimately I agree with Kasanova my friend because I think Chinese has the best combination as far as touches of appetite along with the grandiose of the illusions records. It's like a combo and it does sound more like what gnr would have evolved into anyways. I'm sure realistically some material doesn't make it and some of the other guys make it. It's beyond clear that Chinese, better, Twat, Catcher, Sorry and TIL probably would have made the final cut regardless since it's material slash and duff like, and wanted to play. But for certain we will never know and it's sad but they have all done very cool stuff on their own. 

I really hope that new material sees the light of day with all 3 on it. The appetite lineup recording an album is the only thing that would beat that. But beggars can't be choosers. Something would be nice.

[FuriousStyles]

3 hours ago, Kasanova King said:

Chinese Democracy is by far the best work anyone of them has done as a completed project.  It destroys anything Slash, Duff or Izzy made on their own, including VR.

 

 

[Mendez]

I like both VR and new GNR alot, but in different ways. I love Contraband, but the more I listen to it, I realize that it seems heavily grunge and metal influenced (aka not GNR's signature sound). Then I listen to Slash's solo stuff and its still somewhat "heavier" than his solo stuff. I listen to CD and its obviously not GNR's signature sound (nor does it try to be imo), but a culmination of alternative rock, punk, metal, trip hop, neo soul, doom metal, hard rock, ballad rock/orchestra rock, Elton John genre etc.

 

I don't think CD or Contraband sounds like Appetite or UYI, but I like them both

Edited November 10, 2016 by Mendez

[moreblack]

There's nothing on Chinese that measures up to the Guns name.

[thunderram]

I've grown to really like most of CD. But it's nowhere near a 'Guns' record. Not even close. And it doesn't bury SLASH's, IZZY's, or DUFF's work or VR in the least.

Despite AXL being legally able to use the GN'R name to promote his own work, the reality is that they are all solo albums.

If you want to get technical about it, VR is really the closest thing to GN'R as it's the only project that involved more than 1 original member on a majority of the tracks. But even VR differs from GN'R quite a bit due to the lyrics and Weiland.

As to the extent that any of these solo projects sound more like GN'R than the others is dependent upon which band member(s) you favored to begin with.

 

 

Edited November 10, 2016 by thunderram

[Rovim]

57 minutes ago, Kickingthehabit said:

Slither is the modern Jungle.

Not a single good riff on Chinese.

Title track riff, Shackler's, Bucket's bridge riff in Better, There Was A Time's heavy riff and Robin's riff before Bucket's outro, plus Scraped and Riad both have rocking riffs.

8 good guitar riffs. There are many more smaller riff ideas like what Bumble does on the title track. Don't know what you're talking about.

Chinese is not centered around riffs anyway, it's not riff rock like AFD and Illusions. And it's not Slash and Izzy. More a tapestry of smaller ideas that make a big one. Production doesn't even always highlight the riff, but it's all there.

It's in a different style cause it's different people. Bucket's Shackler's riff provides Axl the base to pull an It's So Easy type vocals.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Rovim

[Rovim]

4 hours ago, wasted said:

As a Guns records yes. No one else came close to writing GNR material as good as Chi dem, Better, Twat, Shackler's, Sorry, This I Love. 

What is surprising is that Slash didn't write another Jungle. Izzy didn't fully realised a Brownstone or Dust n Bones. 

That's probably Axl wasn't there to push them to produce that finished product. 

Stuff like Fall to Pieces and By the Sword have the potential. Time Gone by or Shuffle it All and many more I hear the potential.

But the desire to make a GNR level album wasn't even there. They don't want to collab and make everything an anthem. 

So Axl's attitude and style do shape a GNR album. 

Perhaps Axl doesn't only push them to really make it a Guns song, maybe it's also what so many fans don't like about some aspects of the music, but that's what defines it. Axl's approach.

Axl's Paradise City Synths, Axl's keyboard orchestras for November Rain, Axl talking about how him and Slash were perfecting Slash's solos over the phone for Illusions, moving notes around and changing them.

Finding the right production. Putting in the time and work cause he probably can't stand it if it's not perfect, he won't release it. I think this is why he wanted to delay Illusions some more and put Q sound on it like MJ.

Izzy, Duff, Slash, and Adler don't care enough or are interested to make albums in that approach or saying something new. Trying everything and making sure it's right seems to be the key for actually making the finish line when it comes to Guns records.

They were artistically aimless after Illusions, divided without a shared goal, but Axl already knew who were the right people without Izzy.

Now that I think about it, Axl is pretty good at knowing who he wants to make an album with.

So it was Paul Huge that was the guy to replace Izzy and Robin to replace Slash, Stinson replaced Duff, and Josh was the drummer.

With that line up Axl finished a Guns album and delivered it to the label in 1999. We've heard some tunes from that era. Sounds like he already had the songs. Axl's vision for what Gn'R supposed to be is crucial if you wanna make a fully realized Gn'R album that is not disposable and kinda the same thing over and over again.

The obsessive nature in which Axl creates and records was always a part of what makes Guns music sound like that. A huge part. Izzy can do a great Izzy album with many Gn'R elements in no time and release it, but he can never do an album that is essentially a Guns album like Chinese on his own. Axl has that ability, probably the only one from the bunch just because he cares and is good at taking a good idea and make it his own and great. Putting it together comes naturally for him.

Slash could have kept his mouth shut then, actually doing industrial with short hair and play on an Axl solo Guns album. (like he's inclined to do now anyway possibly)

If it failed, maybe Axl would have seen the light and went back to more hard rock, and if it did well, then great.

20 years were lost cause Slash thought he was the shit. But like you said, he never wrote another Jungle. He never came close to that quality so he needed and needs Axl to create on that level. It was a foolish decision to quit Guns in 1996. But maybe he thought Axl will forgive him sooner.

Edited November 10, 2016 by Rovim

[action]

when people say "it's the closest to guns" and "it's the best" in one sentence, they are mixing two things up

wether it's "the best" is up for debate.

but one thing i know for certain, is for all the things you can call it , one of them seriously is NOT being anything like GNR. exactly what elements on CD sound like GNR? maybe it's the total absence of groove? lack of straight forward rock songs? the lyrics then? hell, even Axl himself doesn't sound like the Axl from GNR.

I would guess Axl consciously made the anti-GNR record.

that title "most GNR sounding album" would go to "ain't life grand" which is basically appetite 2 in sound, has immense groove and the best riffs period. speed parade, been there lately, off the top of my head.

and if i can be a bit crazy, adler's album is pretty damn close too

CD, if anything, sounds the LEAST GNR. there are other bands who sound more GNR than this album

Edited November 10, 2016 by action

[DieselDaisy]

15 minutes ago, Rovim said:

Shackler's

You mean Korn's riff?