01/22/17 - Kobe, JP - Kobe World Memorial Hall

[Lies They Tell]

10 hours ago, Torb said:

AC/DC songs almost 100% screaming??????? Someone here needs a full re-listen of their discography, at least Bon's era

I know that the Bon songs aren't full of screaming, but they aren't raspy either. So again it proves my point. You might like his voice on those Bon songs more than his voice on some GNR songs, but I guess it's pretty understandable that Axl's not imitating Bon on his own songs, even if you'd prefer it that way.

I fully agree that there might be a way that Axl could sound better on certain GNR songs using a different kind of voice, but we were talking about rasp here. And the fact is that he can't use rasp on those songs anymore.  He might be able to find a different voice for those songs though. 

[wasted]

Great show, now let's get some Asahi and beef. 

[IncitingChaos]

38 minutes ago, Lies They Tell said:

I know that the Bon songs aren't full of screaming, but they aren't raspy either. So again it proves my point. You might like his voice on those Bon songs more than his voice on some GNR songs, but I guess it's pretty understandable that Axl's not imitating Bon on his own songs, even if you'd prefer it that way.

I fully agree that there might be a way that Axl could sound better on certain GNR songs using a different kind of voice, but we were talking about rasp here. And the fact is that he can't use rasp on those songs anymore.  He might be able to find a different voice for those songs though. 

 

 

 

Rasp...Rasp...Rasp 3 different styles all rasp all at will. Axl controls the rasp but likes it clean on his songs. I don't think there's an argument after AC/DC, he did over 20 shows all sounding incredible 

[Lies They Tell]

1 hour ago, IncitingChaos said:

Rasp...Rasp...Rasp 3 different styles all rasp all at will. Axl controls the rasp but likes it clean on his songs. I don't think there's an argument after AC/DC, he did over 20 shows all sounding incredible 

Don't know why you picked such a muddy sounding version of Rock N' Roll damnation, so here's a better sounding version:

And again it proves my point. There's mostly no rasp there except when he screams. Dirty Deeds is mostly a screaming song anyway and even that one's not fully raspy. Rock n' roll thunder is probably the best example of Axl singing with rasp and like I said in my original post, he sounds raspy these days ALMOST only when he screams. There are some rare moments when he sings with rasp, both with GNR and AC/DC, and I think it has a lot to do with the right pitch. Axl is still capable of singing with rasp when he's either screaming, or when he's singing in a certain pitch. And the pitch of rock n' roll thunder seems to be just right for the raspy voice. In any case, he can't sing with rasp whenever he wants. It's just not physically possible for him these days. Especially high pitched singing with rasp is pretty much impossible for him unless he's screaming and I'd estimate that the majority of GNR songs require high pitched singing.

[IncitingChaos]

2 hours ago, Lies They Tell said:

Don't know why you picked such a muddy sounding version of Rock N' Roll damnation, so here's a better sounding version:

And again it proves my point. There's mostly no rasp there except when he screams. Dirty Deeds is mostly a screaming song anyway and even that one's not fully raspy. Rock n' roll thunder is probably the best example of Axl singing with rasp and like I said in my original post, he sounds raspy these days ALMOST only when he screams. There are some rare moments when he sings with rasp, both with GNR and AC/DC, and I think it has a lot to do with the right pitch. Axl is still capable of singing with rasp when he's either screaming, or when he's singing in a certain pitch. And the pitch of rock n' roll thunder seems to be just right for the raspy voice. In any case, he can't sing with rasp whenever he wants. It's just not physically possible for him these days. Especially high pitched singing with rasp is pretty much impossible for him unless he's screaming and I'd estimate that the majority of GNR songs require high pitched singing.

So if were to put what pitches Axl couldn't rasp on a scale it would look something like this

1. No rasp

2. Rasp (just right)

3. No rasp

4. All rasp (screaming) 

I'm not sure that's how it works but oh well. 

Still think he could rasp NR, SCOM, YCBM and PC at will but we will have to agree to disagree there 

[Lies They Tell]

5 minutes ago, IncitingChaos said:

So if were to put what pitches Axl couldn't rasp on a scale it would look something like this

1. No rasp

2. Rasp (just right)

3. No rasp

4. All rasp (screaming) 

I'm not sure that's how it works but oh well. 

Still think he could rasp NR, SCOM, YCBM and PC at will but we will have to agree to disagree there 

I think you're starting to get what I'm saying. But yeah, we can agree to disagree for sure.

[Rovim]

Axl is still capable of being fully raspy. It's not a question. It's easier to sing clean and it preserves his vocal chords. His live AC/DC performances proved he still has the potential of totally demolishing.

If he can do it with AC/DC, he can do it with Guns. For AC/DC he rehearsed for it, he was all warmed up. For Guns he's not doing it. As the tour progresses, he'll be able to do it but he doesn't pulls out all the stops with Guns anymore on every show.

[lukigol]

If you wanna know how cool rasp he still can do,  check it 5:45

 

 

Edited January 23, 2017 by lukigol

[onurbayrak03]

21 hours ago, Lies They Tell said:

Don't know if you're trolling, but seriously... ask yourself, why does he sound raspy on It's So Easy when he screams? Why does he sound raspy on Welcome To The Jungle when he screams? Why does he sound raspy on Better when he screams? 

The answer is pretty obvious... 

He sounds raspy because he screams. He always sounds raspy when he screams. That's how his voice works these days. He can't pull of rasp when ever he wants to. He just can't. These days he sounds raspy almost only when he screams. That's how it is, and there's pretty much nothing he can do about it.

That's why he sounds raspy on AC/DC songs, cause those songs are almost 100% screaming. That's why he sounds raspy pretty much every time he screams on GNR songs and almost never on other occasions. If he could, he would sing with 100% rasp all the time. But he can't. Just like you can't do it, he can't do it either. Not anymore. Just accept it, stop complaining and move on.

He sounds raspy only when screaming??? Haha... Well,  take a look at the verse parts of this clip, he sings RASPY in mid-range and no screaming. 

Its bcause he doesnt, not bcause he "cant"... 

[Top-Hatted One]

8 hours ago, Lies They Tell said:

I think you're starting to get what I'm saying. But yeah, we can agree to disagree for sure.

To add to what you said Axl can't and shouldn't rasp the entire 3hr show like it's 1992. He will never get through a tour. He's done enough damage to his vocal chords. He'd be risking losing his voice all together. I'm sure ever vocal coach and doctor told him that already. The rasp is awesome but it is not natural. He has to pick his spots now to prove to us that he still has it. Problem is most fans don't know anything about singing. 

And ACDC rasp is easier for him because it is spoken and shouted. He actually sings and has to sustain notes in GN'R. When he adds rasp on those sustained notes he is literally ripping his vocal chords to shreds. 

Edited January 23, 2017 by Top-Hatted One

[tsinindy]

6 minutes ago, Top-Hatted One said:

Problem is most fans don't know anything about singing. 

 

So, what makes you the expert?  You stay at Holiday Inn last night or something?

[Lies They Tell]

51 minutes ago, onurbayrak03 said:

He sounds raspy only when screaming??? Haha... Well,  take a look at the verse parts of this clip, he sings RASPY in mid-range and no screaming. 

Its bcause he doesnt, not bcause he "cant"... 

Oh come on! Learn to read. I said he sounds raspy ALMOST only when he screams. Besides we just had a lengthy discussion about this with Inciting Chaos and I don't want to repeat myself.

But, like I said. There are rare occasions, when he's still capable of singing with rasp without screaming, and it has a lot to do with the right pitch. Most GNR songs are too high pitched. He can't sing with a high pitched raspy voice anymore without screaming. Rock n roll thunder has a lower pitch which suits Axl's current voice better and that's why he can sing it with rasp. 

You can disagree all you want though. But I've seen plenty of videos where he's doing everything he can to pull of some rasp on certain GNR songs, but just can't do it. 

Edited January 23, 2017 by Lies They Tell

[TheSeeker]

5 hours ago, Rovim said:

Axl is still capable of being fully raspy. It's not a question. It's easier to sing clean and it preserves his vocal chords. His live AC/DC performances proved he still has the potential of totally demolishing.

If he can do it with AC/DC, he can do it with Guns. For AC/DC he rehearsed for it, he was all warmed up. For Guns he's not doing it. As the tour progresses, he'll be able to do it but he doesn't pulls out all the stops with Guns anymore on every show.

The bizarre thing is that he consciously chose to use his clean voice for the live streams in 2011-2012 and the London/Vegas Blu Rays from 2012.

It's like, he knew the shows would be preserved on film, right? And he still couldn't be bothered to give a shit.

I have a feeling his handlers didn't have the balls to tell him when he sounded bad. 

[onurbayrak03]

1 hour ago, Lies They Tell said:

Oh come on! Learn to read. I said he sounds raspy ALMOST only when he screams. Besides we just had a lengthy discussion about this with Inciting Chaos and I don't want to repeat myself.

But, like I said. There are rare occasions, when he's still capable of singing with rasp without screaming, and it has a lot to do with the right pitch. Most GNR songs are too high pitched. He can't sing with a high pitched raspy voice anymore without screaming. Rock n roll thunder has a lower pitch which suits Axl's current voice better and that's why he can sing it with rasp. 

You can disagree all you want though. But I've seen plenty of videos where he's doing everything he can to pull of some rasp on certain GNR songs, but just can't do it. 

I get what you mean now. Im just really shocked at it, he sings this song with a deep and raspy but he cant sing NR with a deeper and less airy voice. Is there any reason about it? I dont think NR is too high pitched for him to sing well.  Why he sings NR like how he does, just asking bro. Im not trying to debate 

[cremefraiche]

6 minutes ago, TheSeeker said:

The bizarre thing is that he consciously chose to use his clean voice for the live streams in 2011-2012 and the London/Vegas Blu Rays from 2012.

It's like, he knew the shows would be preserved on film, right? And he still couldn't be bothered to give a shit.

I have a feeling his handlers didn't have the balls to tell him when he sounded bad. 

Right? It makes you wonder how many people these sorts of things have to go through before they're finally signed off on for release and stuff. 

Like could someone at the label, or distribution company, or whoever just be like "Nah looks and/or sounds crap, not gonna release that sorry."

[Lies They Tell]

56 minutes ago, onurbayrak03 said:

I get what you mean now. Im just really shocked at it, he sings this song with a deep and raspy but he cant sing NR with a deeper and less airy voice. Is there any reason about it? I dont think NR is too high pitched for him to sing well.  Why he sings NR like how he does, just asking bro. Im not trying to debate 

No worries! If you listen to the original studio versions of November Rain and Got Some Rock & Roll Thunder, you'll see that NR is sung in a much higher pitched voice than GSR&RT. So the reason why Axl sings NR with a higher pitched voice live is because November Rain was originally sung in higher pitched voice just like Got Some Rock & Roll Thunder was sung in a lower pitched voice. He's trying to sing those songs in the right key. The problem is that his higher pitched voice isn't the same as it was in the nineties. His voice isn't the same as it was in 2010 either. These days it's pretty much impossible for him to sing those songs with that higher pitched voice and still sound raspy. I guess in theory he could sing November Rain with a much lower pitched voice and it probably would sound raspier then. But I think for Axl it's much more important to sing those songs in the right key, than to sing them with a raspy voice. So he's not gonna start singing them with a lower voice just to sound raspier.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Lies They Tell

[Lies They Tell]

51 minutes ago, TheSeeker said:

The bizarre thing is that he consciously chose to use his clean voice for the live streams in 2011-2012 and the London/Vegas Blu Rays from 2012.

It's like, he knew the shows would be preserved on film, right? And he still couldn't be bothered to give a shit.

I have a feeling his handlers didn't have the balls to tell him when he sounded bad. 

That almost sounds like sarcasm, but I'm not sure if you meant it that way. If it sounds too bizarre to be true, it usually is. The simpler and more logical conclusion in my opinion would be that he simply wasn't capable of singing with 100% rasp in 2011-2012. No matter how much he would have rehearsed it wouldn't have helped. He just couldn't sing with as much rasp in 2012 as he did in 2010. 

[TheSeeker]

2 minutes ago, Lies They Tell said:

That almost sounds like sarcasm, but I'm not sure if you meant it that way. If it sounds too bizarre to be true, it usually is. The simpler and more logical conclusion in my opinion would be that he simply wasn't capable of singing with 100% rasp in 2011-2012. No matter how much he would have rehearsed it wouldn't have helped. He just couldn't sing with as much rasp in 2012 as he did in 2010. 

He sang flawless for AC/DC last year, save for one show when he had a cold.

I have a bad feeling the next "Axl Rose Disaster" video will come from this year. If that happens, I wonder if Slash and Duff will tell him to cut the shit.

[IncitingChaos]

I just watched a video from these recent shows and he sounds bad. Even on Don't Cry it sounds like he's talking to the crowd, all the emotion is gone from the song. And SCOM isn't even close to the right key or tone. 

He sounds bored, idk maybe he's sick for the start of the fifth tour in a row. 

As far as AC/DC Axl goes I say they gnr  just tune it up to standard tuning and make Axl go after those notes. I mean how is he singing this bad tuned half a step down 

[Lies They Tell]

1 minute ago, TheSeeker said:

He sang flawless for AC/DC last year, save for one show when he had a cold.

I have a bad feeling the next "Axl Rose Disaster" video will come from this year. If that happens, I wonder if Slash and Duff will tell him to cut the shit.

What do you mean by flawless? He didn't sing AC/DC with 100% rasp either if that's what you mean. But overall I agree that AC/DC songs do fit his current voice much better than GNR songs do. GNR songs require a lot of high pitched raspy singing which doesn't really suit Axl's current voice. He can't sing with a high pitched voice and sound raspy at the same time unless he's screaming.

That's why AC/DC songs fit his voice much better. First of all there's a lot of screaming in AC/DC songs and we all know that Axl always sounds raspy when he screams. Then there's songs like Got Some Rock & Roll thunder, which are sung in a lower key than most GNR songs and when Axl's singing in that key, he sounds raspy.

Simply put most AC/DC songs fit Axl's current voice much better than most GNR songs do.

I agree that Axl's voice at the moment isn't as good as it was when GNR was touring US. But I wouldn't be worried about an Axl Rose Disaster yet. His voice is still in a much better condition than it was a few years ago.

[lassie]

On 22/1/2017 at 0:43 PM, AncientEvil80 said:

Not whining, I don't give a damn, but please REPLACE THAT DRUMMER. Just shamelessly skewering Don't Cry. Absolutely APPALLING. Guitars having to chase him all the way through every fucking beat??? UNREAL. FIRE THE GUY!!!!!

This is becoming worse than a joke.

How dare you? Frank has been with the band for 11 years, and he is doing fine, get off you mighty horse, and do it better if you can. Frank is on fire at times, and other times he could be better, but he is still great, and a close friend to Axl.

[AlexC]

Why do people start questioning Axl's ability everytime he has a bad show? It's pretty obvious what the problem is here. HE DIDN'T PREPARE! This is nothing new, he'll be fine again after a few shows. It is possible to criticise a performance without overblowing everything out of proportion.

He's still great. This show wasn't. The end.

[IncitingChaos]

2 minutes ago, AlexC said:

Why do people start questioning Axl's ability everytime he has a bad show? It's pretty obvious what the problem is here. HE DIDN'T PREPARE! This is nothing new, he'll be fine again after a few shows. It is possible to criticise a performance without overblowing everything out of proportion.

He's still great. This show wasn't. The end.

I think he deserves the critique if he's not coming in prepared. The fans are paying a lot  of money to see him and the band play,  it's really not cool that some are getting a watered down version of the band Bc Axl isn't preparing like he's getting paid millions. 

[AlexC]

Just now, IncitingChaos said:

I think he deserves the critique if he's not coming in prepared. The fans are paying a lot  of money to see him and the band play,  it's really not cool that some are getting a watered down version of the band Bc Axl isn't preparing like he's getting paid millions. 

Yes I 100% agree, in fact I posted that exact comment yesterday. But that's not what this comment was addressing.

[IncitingChaos]

@Lies They Tell not to get back into a discussion on the matter but I am curious what songs fall into the high pitched category? 

I enjoy the vocal discussion so I'll probably go back and look at performances of those songs compared with what he does well and see if the picture is clearer as to what is causing Axl to fall into that clean voice.