GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

[Tori72]

2 minutes ago, killuridols said:

This is something that comes in question to me as well! 

All Steven talked about was his desire of reuniting with his old pals.... So was Axl offended that Steven read his mind or something? 

I think this is about that time when Axl was really stubborn about keeping nuGnR together and going despite seeing that it wasn't working and that it was going to hell, no matter what he did.

It is the same kind of rage he had against Azot when Azot suggested a reunion was going to save this band 

@MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle Yes, I only see the female symbol and the rest are squares but I guess that's because she posted emojis from her phone and our devices are not reading them well.

 

1 minute ago, Blackstar said:

My guess is that there was more in it than Steven's interviews. In the other quote from 2009 Axl mentioned Steven's mother. Probably there was behind the scenes stuff we don't know about.

Yeah, the bolded and Blackstar kind of sum up and it makes sense. Axl must have been really touchy on the NuGnR thing when all the time he thought he is bloody GnR and in fact he's only Axl Rose with paid musicians. lol So Steven telling him what would be a major success was kinda hard in Axl's eyes. Axl's Ego problems right there.

The other thing: What or who is Azot? 

[killuridols]

7 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

The other thing: What or who is Azot? 

 lol, sorry, I meant Azoff... Irving Azoff

https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/958191/axl-rose-slams-irving-azoff-in-5-million-countersuit

[Blackstar]

12 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

The other thing: What or who is Azot? 

Irving Azoff, Axl's/NuGnR manager in 2008-09 iirc. He was also manager of Velvet Revolver before that.

The Azoff case is strange, because he was known in the business as a "reunions manager", as he was the architect of The Eagles reunion. The question is why Axl had chosen him as manager; maybe he was thinking about a reunion?

 

Edited January 28, 2018 by Blackstar

[purplestargirl]

2 hours ago, alfierose said:

Yes, I don't think this is just Axl. I'm fairly sure the other two would not risk the tour or their own financial stake if they felt Steven was a liability. Slash and Duff may say positive things publicly but I imagine it was a collective decision or at least one they all supported.

I feel a bit sorry for Steven because he is like that little kid who thinks that they are all still his besties despite evidence to the contrary.

I think Slash, and Meegan to an extent, is still friends with Steven though.

[Georgina Arriaga]

10 minutes ago, Tori72 said:

Yeah, the bolded and Blackstar kind of sum up and it makes sense. Axl must have been really touchy on the NuGnR thing when all the time he thought he is bloody GnR and in fact he's only Axl Rose with paid musicians. lol So Steven telling him what would be a major success was kinda hard in Axl's eyes. Axl's Ego problems right there.

Of course he was touchy!! he thought that he and those paid musicians would make for the original GNR and he would be succesful...his plan didn't work at all....Thank God!

Ego and stubborness complicated with an awful manager in Beta and you have a recipe for disaster...I was not in 2011-2014 but I reject the idea of watch videos from that time...ewwww!

[alfierose]

53 minutes ago, MyPrettyTiedUpMichelle said:

If any mods are lurking... I'm seeing squares.  No, I'm not high.   The response is just this line of literal squares, and I've seen other posters with these squares as well.  At first I thought it was a glitch on my ancient laptop but now @killuridols has mentioned I think it might be a glitch in the forum?  Just alerting you guys to this.

I can see them. They are face palm emojis but not ones that specifically belong to this forum so it probably depends on what browser etc you are using as to whether you can see them.

[killuridols]

25 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

The Azoff case is strange, because he was known in the business as a "reunions manager", as he was the architect of The Eagles reunion. The question is why Axl had chosen him as manager; maybe he was thinking about a reunion?

Probably he was but it seems it bothered him that other people thought this was the way to go as well...... Poor Steven, had to pay for saying that, just like Azoff, just like Canter, just like all the fans that wanted a reunion a long time ago.

He's nuts 

[Tori72]

Just now, killuridols said:

Probably he was but it seems it bothered him that other people thought this was the way to go as well...... Poor Steven, had to pay for saying that, just like Azoff, just like Canter, just like all the fans that wanted a reunion a long time ago.

He's nuts 

This.

He wanted all along, all this time but couldn't admit it to himself. How pathetic, how melodramatic. What a waste of fucking lifetime. And talent. And friendship....  

[Blackstar]

Some links about the Azoff case for people who don't know the story:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E02E3DD143EF933A15756C0A9669D8B63

https://www.billboard.com/articles/news/958191/axl-rose-slams-irving-azoff-in-5-million-countersuit

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/axl-rose-settles-lawsuit/

Regardless of Axl's stubbornness and faults, I think it was petty on Azoff's part to refer to him as "William Bailey".

And from an Azoff interview in 2016:

Q. Recently it was announced that Guns N’ Roses would be reuniting for Coachella. You once briefly managed the band, and Axl Rose said that you had tried to pressure him into reuniting the original group.

A. I would never go to an artist and say, “I want you to reunite.” If he had asked me if I thought it was a good idea, I would have said yes. But by the way, nobody tells Axl to do anything. He does what he wants to do.

Slash and Duff McKagan are terrific people. Axl is a complicated individual that I wish nothing but success for. I think this is a good historical moment that the public deserves to see. I hope it happens.

 

Edited January 28, 2018 by Blackstar

[Alja]

16 hours ago, MaskingApathy said:

What's the best way to put this into words? 

So Steven is a great guy, really loveable and adorable. He hugged me a bunch of times and hugged everyone else he met. The issue isn't that he's a bad person or anything. He's still like a kid and you kind of want to make sure that someone is around to watch him. Compare him to Slash and Duff. They're professional, experienced touring musicans and they know how to conduct themselves in a professional way. Steven is like a wild card. He just wants to hang out and have a good time, but you don't really know what he's going to do. Especially in an environment where there's a lot of attention on him and band (like NAMM). That was ok back in the 80s when they were playing clubs and theaters. They were young and on loads of drugs and it was fine, but now Slash and Duff are older and sober. They want to know that everyone (especially on a tour of this magnitude) with behave and be professional, dependable, reliable, speak carefully, and so on. Frank fits that (and Axl wanted him). With Frank they don't have to worry about anything (except maybe the tempo). Steven, I think if I was touring in a band with him I would always be thinking about where he is and what he's doing. Not saying he can't be professional and all that (I'm sure he would if it came to it) but there's just too much weight and risk riding on this whole thing with the tour and where GnR is now. Steven is the wild card factor and the least controllable, and he could be a liability.

Everything I said above, none of that has to do with his previous substance abuse problems. That's just my impressions from spending a little bit of time with him today and seeing him interact with people. I think his wife is probably a huge help in helping him be accountable and staying clean.

Does that make sense to you all? I'm struggling to put into words my thoughts from seeing him today. It's one of those things that you can't really understand unless you've met him and been around him for a little while. Slash, Duff, and Axl, they know him even better than any of us. Before I thought, "oh he can do the tour and play the AFD stuff and be just fine" but after meeting him I think I'm starting to understand a little more what the others might be thinking.

I really like this , it`s an apt description

Like, complain about Axl being childish, but if you saw them one by another, you would see the sheer difference between them. Axl is purposefully childish to keep some of his kind of unique abilities.

I would always be thinking about where he is and what he's doing - that`s basically it. I totally understand your statements and again I guess I will be shattered to pieces for saying that Steven is definitely damaged with stroke(s), coke alone does not do this, but I know certain unmistakable vibe of these people. If even not at first sight, under pressure or if the pace is fast, people like this can be nerve-wracking even after good recovery, it`s like you are always all eyes where that particular person is and if he`s not left confused in the corner because it`s not fun anymore. They are at least partially aware about it and feel as a burden in this environment, someone here likened it to piggy in the middle game feeling.

Not to say Steven probably had no vision ever and lived from day to day since ever, Slash mentioned that his future vision back then was huge speedball. 

With someone who is mentally on similar level or a certain kind of caring, he can be non-problem, good partner and friend. (not to say Steven earns at least from royalties enough to maintain comfy lifestyle for him and his near ones)

[Gabrielaerojas]

4 hours ago, Rocketqueen76 said:

I’m not saying Axl is a saint or directly defending him, but damn can we take the needle off the record already.

Amen!

[Gabrielaerojas]

14 minutes ago, Alja said:

I really like this , it`s an apt description

Like, complain about Axl being childish, but if you saw them one by another, you would see the sheer difference between them. Axl is purposefully childish to keep some of his kind of unique abilities.

I would always be thinking about where he is and what he's doing - that`s basically it. I totally understand your statements and again I guess I will be shattered to pieces for saying that Steven is definitely damaged with stroke(s), coke alone does not do this, but I know certain unmistakable vibe of these people. If even not at first sight, under pressure or if the pace is fast, people like this can be nerve-wracking even after good recovery, it`s like you are always all eyes where that particular person is and if he`s not left confused in the corner because it`s not fun anymore. They are at least partially aware about it and feel as a burden in this environment, someone here likened it to piggy in the middle game feeling.

Not to say Steven probably had no vision ever and lived from day to day since ever, Slash mentioned that his future vision back then was huge speedball. 

With someone who is mentally on similar level or a certain kind of caring, he can be non-problem, good partner and friend. (not to say Steven earns at least from royalties enough to maintain comfy lifestyle for him and his near ones)

As always, on point.

[Natty]

1 hour ago, Blackstar said:

My guess is that there was more in it than Steven's interviews. In the other quote from 2009 Axl mentioned Steven's mother. Probably there was behind the scenes stuff we don't know about.

bit of paranoia maybe. axl was afraid that the former wives  of his band mates would ruin GNR ...afraid of problems with Stevens mother... afraid of this and that.

well now everyone has to deal with Team Brasil due to his fears - himself included. being ignored by them when drunk and so on. 

If Axl just wanted he could sort things out with Steven. Steven would forgive him. I wished to know what in Axl s eyes makes a difference between coachella with steven and a tour without him? other musicians left him for private reasons or couldn t continue the tour due to incidents so where would have been the problem replacing Steven if anything went wrong? 

and yeah regarding broken record: we dont get real news more often then maybe 2 a year so we have to come back to interesting arguments. 

Good night 

[Blackstar]

9 minutes ago, Natty said:

If Axl just wanted he could sort things out with Steven. Steven would forgive him. I wished to know what in Axl s eyes makes a difference between coachella with steven and a tour without him? other musicians left him for private reasons or couldn t continue the tour due to incidents so where would have been the problem replacing Steven if anything went wrong? 

I don't think that in Axl's mind there's something to be forgiven for by Steven.

Steven wasn't going to be full time drummer even in the initial plans. He would share duties with Frank in Coachella and the other spring 2016 shows; he probably was to play more than two songs, but not more than Frank.

So the problem wasn't if he could be replaced, since Frank would be there too. But as it has been pointed out, it seems that it wasn't just Axl who didn't want Steven on tour. They just didn't want him around for so long.

[Rocketqueen76]

33 minutes ago, Natty said:

bit of paranoia maybe. axl was afraid that the former wives  of his band mates would ruin GNR ...afraid of problems with Stevens mother... afraid of this and that.

well now everyone has to deal with Team Brasil due to his fears - himself included. being ignored by them when drunk and so on. 

If Axl just wanted he could sort things out with Steven. Steven would forgive him. I wished to know what in Axl s eyes makes a difference between coachella with steven and a tour without him? other musicians left him for private reasons or couldn t continue the tour due to incidents so where would have been the problem replacing Steven if anything went wrong? 

and yeah regarding broken record: we dont get real news more often then maybe 2 a year so we have to come back to interesting arguments. 

Good night 

But the issue isn’t about news....so respectfully I think you missed the point.

[killuridols]

5 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

But as it has been pointed out, it seems that it wasn't just Axl who didn't want Steven on tour. They just didn't want him around for so long.

I'm sorry but you keep repeating this and I think it makes no sense 

All of them knew Steven wanted to be employed full time and be part of every show of this reunion..... Why to play with his feelings if they knew they didn't want him around for so long? Why put illusions in his head?

Wouldn't have been easier to say NO since the beginning and not have him at all at any show? 

At some point somebody came up with this idea of having Steven and I don't think that must have been Axl, so I really don't believe that all of them were against it. There has to be someone, either Slash, Duff or I don't know who the hell, but someone brought Steven name on the table and called him.

Now everybody's washed their hands off clean of the problem but I don't buy this version of the story.

[Rocketqueen76]

3 minutes ago, killuridols said:

I'm sorry but you keep repeating this and I think it makes no sense 

All of them knew Steven wanted to be employed full time and be part of every show of this reunion..... Why to play with his feelings if they knew they didn't want him around for so long? Why put illusions in his head?

Wouldn't have been easier to say NO since the beginning and not have him at all at any show? 

At some point somebody came up with this idea of having Steven and I don't think that must have been Axl, so I really don't believe that all of them were against it. There has to be someone, either Slash, Duff or I don't know who the hell, but someone brought Steven name on the table and called him.

Now everybody's washed their hands off clean of the problem but I don't buy this version of the story.

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄....am currently beating my head against the nearest wall.

[killuridols]

Just now, Rocketqueen76 said:

🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄....am currently beating my head against the nearest wall.

Keep going.

[Blackstar]

6 minutes ago, killuridols said:

I'm sorry but you keep repeating this and I think it makes no sense 

All of them knew Steven wanted to be employed full time and be part of every show of this reunion..... Why to play with his feelings if they knew they didn't want him around for so long? Why put illusions in his head?

Wouldn't have been easier to say NO since the beginning and not have him at all at any show? 

At some point somebody came up with this idea of having Steven and I don't think that must have been Axl, so I really don't believe that all of them were against it. There has to be someone, either Slash, Duff or I don't know who the hell, but someone brought Steven name on the table and called him.

Now everybody's washed their hands off clean of the problem but I don't buy this version of the story.

What it is you don't understand? I explained it in my first post on this issue: When the reunion started, it was about Coachella and the other spring 2016 shows and they wouldn't mind having Steven there for 5-6 shows. But when the plan expanded to a world tour, they'd have to deal with Steven every day for a long time and they didn't want to.

[Rocketqueen76]

2 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Keep going.

With a smile on my face 😁😁😁

[killuridols]

5 minutes ago, Blackstar said:

What it is you don't understand? I explained it in my first post on this issue: When the reunion started, it was about Coachella and the other spring 2016 shows and they wouldn't mind having Steven there for 5-6 shows. But when the plan expanded to a world tour, they'd have to deal with Steven every day for a long time and they didn't want to.

But this is your speculation, not a fact. 

None of the "big three" ever said something like that about Steven. The only time they spoke (with Brazilian tv) they dodged the topic and all Axl said was that Steven had a back surgery and that he had no idea about Steven's future participation on the tour.

The bolded is all made up stuff by people here at the forum. If it's not, then show me where Slash, Duff and even Axl explained the reasons for not having Steven either full or part time.

There is not official explanation about it.

[Blackstar]

5 minutes ago, killuridols said:

But this is your speculation, not a fact. 

None of the "big three" ever said something like that about Steven. The only time they spoke (with Brazilian tv) they dodged the topic and all Axl said was that Steven had a back surgery and that he had no idea about Steven's future participation on the tour.

The bolded is all made up stuff by people here at the forum. If it's not, then show me where Slash, Duff and even Axl explained the reasons for not having Steven either full or part time.

There is not official explanation about it.

Did I say somewhere that it's a fact? Of course it's speculation, but it's the explanation that makes the most sense. And there are indicators that make it plausible. First of all, Steven's interviews. And also the Arlett Vereekee interview, where she had Slash's permission to say what she said, and what she said about Steven was that he couldn't be in the reunion because he hurt his back (while she didn't want to comment on Izzy), which was in accordance to what Axl had said in the Brazilian tv interview; that tells me 1) that Slash is on board with how they dealt with Steven and 2) that Steven's back injury gave them a convenient pretext to change the plans about him.

[killuridols]

4 hours ago, Blackstar said:

Did I say somewhere that it's a fact? Of course it's speculation, but it's the explanation that makes the most sense. And there are indicators that make it plausible. First of all, Steven's interviews. And also the Arlett Vereekee interview, where she had Slash's permission to say what she said, and what she said about Steven was that he couldn't be in the reunion because he hurt his back (while she didn't want to comment on Izzy), which was in accordance to what Axl had said in the Brazilian tv interview; that tells me 1) that Slash is on board with how they dealt with Steven and 2) that Steven's back injury gave them a convenient pretext to change the plans about him.

We don't know what were the initial plans with Steven. None of them ever spoke about it. Only Steven did and he let it slide that he was gonna participate in many more shows than he actually did. Now if Steven says the truth or not, we can't know because there's no word on the other side.

I can't derive that Slash and Duff agree with what was done with Steven just from what you're mentioning. There's actually no word from Slash and Duff on anything regarding this tour, except for Slash just repeating that they all get along very well and that he never thought that would happen.

 

[MaskingApathy]

I also saw Gilby perform yesterday with Teddy zig zag. Roberta Freeman got on stage to sing kohd with them. One of my friends told me that she saw Steven go into the room that Gilby played in during his soundcheck to say hi. 

[MaskingApathy]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=1696808397064484&id=397785253633478

I was standing there when they did this interview. Such a fun guy haha