GNR Women's Discussion - Part 2

[Georgina Arriaga]

3 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Because he loves being the singer of AC/DC and if he goes back to his way, Angus will not call him again. That simple. Angus likes his show to begin in the right and appropiate time.

Even if they are just rumours, Im sure that if AC/DC will tour again it will be with Axl, so it cannot be discarded.

Yes, but in the end what Angus matter is his behavior in AC/DC, I really doubt that Angus care about GNR's punctuality, he and Axl are grown men, both have experience in touring....I´m not familiar with Axl and his version of GNR tour, but from what I read his punctuality since 2012 has been good.....I truly believe that Slash and Duff made the request of punctuality, and simply he honor them

[Alja]

15 minutes ago, killuridols said:

I want to re-punish him?? How? I have no domestic violence reports against Axl

And I'm sorry but he was never "judged, condemned and punished" for what he did

He settled out of court and paid the silence of his victims but he's not convicted of any of those crimes.

 

Sorry, I studied for actual doctorate instead of going for every single detail of Axl`s process. Sometimes life itself punishes people to extent actual process against them is not held or is restrained (like when culprit of car accident is so badly injured they quash an indictment). With all of my heart I believe that any way you make someone not to repeat certain behavior is good, I`m against punishment which would lead to unnecessary damage. Axl was left in no good after the process. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by Alja

[killuridols]

2 minutes ago, Georgina Arriaga said:

Yes, but in the end what Angus matter is his behavior in AC/DC, I really doubt that Angus care about GNR's punctuality, he and Axl are grown men, both have experience in touring....I´m not familiar with Axl and his version of GNR tour, but from what I read his punctuality since 2012 has been good.....I truly believe that Slash and Duff made the request of punctuality, and simply he honor them

Huh?

I think you are misunderstanding me or something....... Angus DOES care that Axl is punctual to his show and Im sure he wouldn't hire him if he knew that Axl would be pulling diva behavior during the AC/DC tour.

Axl was quite humble when he played with AC/DC, he didn't even changed his clothes that much and he was very punctual. Never left the stage for crazy shit either or stopped the show to give shit to the audience.

Nah, he was never punctual with nuGN'R... I waited 3 hours to see him

Axl just honors Duff and Slash with their request for punctuality?

Wow girl, you're really innocent!

[Georgina Arriaga]

2 minutes ago, killuridols said:

Huh?

I think you are misunderstanding me or something....... Angus DOES care that Axl is punctual to his show and Im sure he wouldn't hire him if he knew that Axl would be pulling diva behavior during the AC/DC tour.

Axl was quite humble when he played with AC/DC, he didn't even changed his clothes that much and he was very punctual. Never left the stage for crazy shit either or stopped the show to give shit to the audience.

Nah, he was never punctual with nuGN'R... I waited 3 hours to see him

Axl just honors Duff and Slash with their request for punctuality?

Wow girl, you're really innocent!

Please, don't  go there, no with me...I'm just giving an opinion, like you did.

He was punctual in GNR too, my point is that maybe is another reasons for this change besides money and that Angus could be upset....

[killuridols]

5 minutes ago, Georgina Arriaga said:

Please, don't  go there, no with me...I'm just giving an opinion, like you did.

He was punctual in GNR too, my point is that maybe is another reasons for this change besides money and that Angus could be upset....

Ok.

[Ratam]

55 minutes ago, Alja said:

You want to re-punish someone, who was judged, condemned, punished, and didn`t repeat certain behavior for decades, is in peace with people involved... This is not justice, but some weird attempt to solve own`s issues using well-known man. As a woman myself, I`m ashamed of this behavior disguised as feminism now being on rise. 

Always amazed me know that John Lennon beat his first wife Cinthia and not many people bring all time this like People made with Axl, as if Lennon had free pass, i think that Axl already was punish for his bad behavior

[Alja]

2 minutes ago, Ratam said:

Always amazed me know that John Lennon beat his first wife Cinthia and not many people bring all time this like People made with Axl, as if Lennon had free pass, i think that Axl already was punish for his bad behavior

I see it pretty simple, like... Beatles were nice boys, no one mentioned when they pissed some wall during the tour, when Stones did so, it was headlines (true story on how to do debauchery in deep 60s). With Axl and violent behavior it fitted his stage behavior and public presence, so people got what they were hungry for. They wanted to see riot-causing misbehaving wild ginger`s blood.

[killuridols]

30 minutes ago, Ratam said:

Always amazed me know that John Lennon beat his first wife Cinthia and not many people bring all time this like People made with Axl, as if Lennon had free pass, i think that Axl already was punish for his bad behavior

This is a Guns N' Roses forum so I don't know why we should bring up Lennon here.

I didn't know he was a wifebeater but I'm not surprised, and if he was, then fuck him. I condemn his actions.

Axl was never punished for what he did.... how?? The only way to pay for this is in the Justice, legal system, he only paid MONEY to keep the victims silenced but he should have been thrown in jail for that.

It is some sort of "reparation", like in most civil cases, but since he's a millionaire, this is HARDLY a punishment to his pockets.

While the women beaten up to hell will always wear those scars in their souls and minds.

 

Edited March 21, 2018 by killuridols

[Alja]

14 minutes ago, killuridols said:

This is a Guns N' Roses forum so I don't know why we should bring up Lennon here.

I didn't know he was a wifebeater but I'm not surprised, and if he was, then fuck him. I condemn his actions.

Axl was never punished for what he did.... how?? The only way to pay for this is in the Justice, legal system, he only paid MONEY to keep the victims silenced.

It is some sort of "reparation", like in most civil cases, but since he's a millionaire, this is HARDLY a punishment to his pockets.

While the women beaten up to hell will always wear those scars in their souls and minds.

 

Yeah, and Axl danced away unaffected from the process and lived happily ever after...

People have souls you cannot fill up with money. Men have souls, too, and they can be wounded to extent they commit suicide (rate of suicides is much higher in men and abusive relationship may be a reason). Abuse is not just about being bruised. Men are more frequent victims of overall violence (try WHO statistics), it`s just overlooked or treated as not as serious as violence towards women or children. Even more intensely overlooked if the abuser is woman. 

As far as I know, in case of reparation, both sides must agree. Then the process is closed and cannot be opened again.

This is one of Jungle threads, so you can come with more than strictly GNR - and Ratam didn`t loose the continuity. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by Alja

[Axl`s BFF]

Why did they choose to accept his money and be silent ?

 

[killuridols]

8 minutes ago, Alja said:

Yeah, and Axl danced away unaffected from the process and lived happily ever after...

There is no way to determine that Axl's depression was due 100% to what he did to the women. I'm sure he's felt some guilt about it and I think, at some point, he's reflected on it (I can tell from some of his interviews) but he was the aggressor so there's no way he's been more damaged than the victims.

12 minutes ago, Alja said:

People have souls you cannot fill up with money. Men have souls, too, and they can be wounded to extent they commit suicide (rate of suicides is much higher in men and abusive relationship may be a reason). Abuse is not just about being bruised. Men are more frequent victims of overall violence (try WHO statistics), it`s just overlooked or treated as not as serious as violence towards women or children. Even more intensely overlooked if the abuser is woman. 

Suicide affects both men and women equally. It is not a gender issue.
Suicide is oftenly associated with depression, alcohol, drugs and mental diseases.

Men are mostly victim of street violence. Most men who are victim of street violence are young, poor, non-white and come from highly violent environments.
This is not the case of Axl Rose, so none of this apply to him.

Violence towards men is treated as general violence because no one harms them or kills them because they ARE MEN. The reasons have nothing to do with their gender.

Women and children are mostly affected by domestic violence and sexual abuse. They are weaker and they are abused and killed because of this reason: they hold no power.

Both women and children AND MEN are STATISTICALLY proven to be mostly victims of MEN, not women.

 

26 minutes ago, Axl`s BFF said:

Why did they choose to accept his money and be silent ?

- Very good lawyers on Axl's part.
- A desire to move on from this nightmare.
- Both Erin and Stephanie got pregnant almost at the same time. No one wants to experience their pregnancy under such stress.
- Erin was pennyless because she had to sell all of her belongings in order to pay the hospital where she ended up because of the beatings.
- The society in the early 90s was very oppressive towards women and there was not a sense of empowerment for accussing your beater, more like a sense of punishment and shame for exposing the aggressor.

 

[Alja]

3 minutes ago, killuridols said:

There is no way to determine that Axl's depression was due 100% to what he did to the women. I'm sure he's felt some guilt about it and I think, at some point, he's reflected on it (I can tell from some of his interviews) but he was the aggressor so there's no way he's been more damaged than the victims.

Suicide affects both men and women equally. It is not a gender issue.
Suicide is oftenly associated with depression, alcohol, drugs and mental diseases.

Men are mostly victim of street violence. Most men who are victim of street violence are young, poor, non-white and come from highly violent environments.
This is not the case of Axl Rose, so none of this apply to him.

Violence towards men is treated as general violence because no one harms them or kills them because they ARE MEN. The reasons have nothing to do with their gender.

Women and children are mostly affected by domestic violence and sexual abuse. They are weaker and they are abused and killed because of this reason: they hold no power.

Both women and children AND MEN are STATISTICALLY proven to be mostly victims of MEN, not women.

 

- Very good lawyers on Axl's part.
- A desire to move on from this nightmare.
- Both Erin and Stephanie got pregnant almost at the same time. No one wants to experience their pregnancy under such stress.
- Erin was pennyless because she had to sell all of her belongings in order to pay the hospital where she ended up because of the beatings.
- The society in the early 90s was very oppressive towards women and there was not a sense of empowerment for accussing your beater, more like a sense of punishment and shame for exposing the aggressor.

 

Suicides are higher in men, no major difference between countries. Women have higher rate of attempts and demonstrative suicides.

There are different ways how to abuse someone and direct, open aggression is just one way. Men abuse goes unrecognized much due to its non-physical nature. Already abused men are additionally mistreated by society as pussies who cannot hold their shit together. It`s "honest" to be beaten up in streets, less glorious to be smashed by kitchen tools home (still speaking about physical abuse, not wide variety of emotional abuse). Highly violent environment is violent for both sexes and one of on-going problem is that in certain communities is overall tolerated violence (even domestic), or treated as normal, like, people are forced by relatives to stay in abusive relationship and nothing is done to change the situation. As far as I know it`s more stronger-weaker thing than actual sex. Women and children are mostly smaller and weaker (but they can use tools, I`ve seen man beaten up by wife with broom). You are tiny, you hold less power, you get shit. In streets, home, in school... 

I dig my memory deep now, but, wasn`t it Axl who came with abuse charge? Like, it`s almost 2020 and I have no impression men would be encouraged to come out with being abused in relationship, raped (but it`s changing).

Axl reflected on it and did much on it; it`s difficult, even after you rationally grasped the problem, to be able to cut the vicious circle you get early in you life when emotion strike and requires much ore than few therapies. Seems he did so at the end, he has no issues in decades. He`s in peace with people involved. That`s why I think it has no sense to bring it up again and again; life punished him own ways enough. 

[killuridols]

10 minutes ago, Alja said:

There are different ways how to abuse someone and direct, open aggression is just one way. Men abuse goes unrecognized much due to its non-physical nature. Already abused men are additionally mistreated by society as pussies who cannot hold their shit together. It`s "honest" to be beaten up in streets, less glorious to be smashed by kitchen tools home (still speaking about physical abuse, not wide variety of emotional abuse). Highly violent environment is violent for both sexes and one of on-going problem is that in certain communities is overall tolerated violence (even domestic), or treated as normal, like, people are forced by relatives to stay in abusive relationship and nothing is done to change the situation. As far as I know it`s more stronger-weaker thing than actual sex. Women and children are mostly smaller and weaker (but they can use tools, I`ve seen man beaten up by wife with broom). You are tiny, you hold less power, you get shit. In streets, home, in school... 

There is not SUCH COLLECTIVE of men abused by women, either physically or emotionally, ANYWHERE in the world

Simply because... MOST MEN are FINANCIALLY INDEPENDENT and hardly EVER will stay in a vicious circle of violence.

If men are physically abused, they have the physical power to defend themselves and defeat their aggressors.
If men are emotionally abused, they have the financial power to get the fuck away from the aggressor, inmediately.

What you are talking about are rare cases of people who are probably mentally or physically handicapped, but that's the exception, not the norm.

Either way, Axl DOES NOT FIT any of those descriptions. The only time he suffered abused was when he was A CHILD and by ANOTHER MAN. So there goes your brilliant theory!
But as soon as he could see right, he ran away from the violent/abusive home and was able to maintain himself without help of family. Then he turned into a powerful man and decided to submit others.
All of this was possible because he was born a male, white, in the United States and the patriarchal system favored him to achieve his dreams.

 

23 minutes ago, Alja said:

I dig my memory deep now, but, wasn`t it Axl who came with abuse charge? Like, it`s almost 2020 and I have no impression men would be encouraged to come out with being abused in relationship, raped (but it`s changing).

Yes, he did.

He had his head so much up his arse that he thought he could charge Stephanie with domestic abuse but he forgot the skeletons in his closet would come out to remind him that he was an abuser himself, so he didn't have much room to complain. Stephanie's lawyers, quick and bright, dugged Axl's shit from the police records and subpoenaed Erin. Something like an analogic Streissand effect

Corey Feldman came out recently and exposed the abused he suffered as a child and how Hollywood is plagued with pedophiles. I celebrate these guys can come out and expose their abusers too. But, unfortunately for you, most of them ARE MEN too

32 minutes ago, Alja said:

Seems he did so at the end, he has no issues in decades. He`s in peace with people involved. That`s why I think it has no sense to bring it up again and again; life punished him own ways enough. 

Just because something is not out in the public or media it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Hollywood is a dark place and powerful men with lots of money are willing to pay millions for their peace of mind.

I really hope he has not damaged any other women after Erin and Stephanie, but I don't have that certainty, so whatever I say it is just wishful thinking, not fact.

I do not think he is in peace with either Erin or Stephanie. He never spoke to them again.

 

[Alja]

Just now, killuridols said:

There is not SUCH COLLECTIVE of men abused by women, either physically or emotionally, ANYWHERE in the world

Simply because... MOST MEN are FINANCIALLY INDEPENDENT and hardly EVER will stay in a vicious circle of violence.

If men are physically abused, they have the physical power to defend themselves and defeat their aggressors.
If men are emotionally abused, they have the financial power to get the fuck away from the aggressor, inmediately.

What you are talking about are rare cases of people who are probably mentally or physically handicapped, but that's the exception, not the norm.

Either way, Axl DOES NOT FIT any of those descriptions. The only time he suffered abused was when he was A CHILD and by ANOTHER MAN. So there goes your brilliant theory!
But as soon as he could see right, he ran away from the violent/abusive home and was able to maintain himself without help of family. Then he turned into a powerful man and decided to submit others.
All of this was possible because he was born a male, white, in the United States and the patriarchal system favored him to achieve his dreams.

Men are emotionally abused when they are financially independent and have to pay to have the relationship carrying on and not to loose kids, they tolerate tons of shit from they wives because they love their kids. They stay in circle of emotional abuse just because in case of divorce they wouldn`t see their kids anymore. And, same as some women, they stick with abusive partner, don`t ask me why, but they do. 

Man has the power until woman is either trained fighter or has any instrument. Kitchen tools are favored. Man has to defense in a way he didn`t hurt the woman if he doesn`t want to be charged with domestic violence.

In a moment small child encounters physical force and sex as a tool of control, there`s a problem and it would be hard to overcome this trait as adult. If the mother favors abusive partner and doesn`t stand by her child, it`s also a very strong message. Axl`s mother let her children being abused and so did all the family and community. I know people around me from twisted upbringing, not exclusively violent, and they have constant relationship problems just because they didn`t get the message of unconditional love and protection.

Still, if Axl even tried to charge Stephanie with abuse, this had to be serious (I also think that from descriptions of their relationship from other people from tight circle of GNR)

I was born and I live in Europe and I really don`t think something like patriarchy or what not stands between me and my dreams.

[purplestargirl]

16 hours ago, Tori72 said:

More blackmail than beating his girlfriends into hospital and rape charges (that have been dropped later)? Don’t really think so.

That's not blackmail material since everyone knows about that. Maybe there's something someone else knows that only they and Axl know....that's what I'm talking about. 

Or maybe he's on time because he doesn't want to lose Slash and Duff again.

[killuridols]

1 hour ago, Alja said:

Men are emotionally abused when they are financially independent and have to pay to have the relationship carrying on and not to loose kids, they tolerate tons of shit from they wives because they love their kids. They stay in circle of emotional abuse just because in case of divorce they wouldn`t see their kids anymore. And, same as some women, they stick with abusive partner, don`t ask me why, but they do. 

This is utter BS. A well done divorce will allow the father to see his children if they get to live with the mother. When children grow up can choose who to live with. Reasons to be separated from kids would be if the man is violent towards the mother and/or the kids. Divorces are more common than marriages nowadays and every country has their own legal system but in general, there is no problem with it.

You are again choosing to focus on the exceptions, not the norm, because you can't prove your points.

1 hour ago, Alja said:

Man has the power until woman is either trained fighter or has any instrument. Kitchen tools are favored. Man has to defense in a way he didn`t hurt the woman if he doesn`t want to be charged with domestic violence.

Most women are not trained and do not own guns/knives. Most women do not defend themselves in such a violent way. If what you say was true, we wouldn't have so many women murdered at the hands of their male partners.

1 hour ago, Alja said:

In a moment small child encounters physical force and sex as a tool of control, there`s a problem and it would be hard to overcome this trait as adult. If the mother favors abusive partner and doesn`t stand by her child, it`s also a very strong message. Axl`s mother let her children being abused and so did all the family and community. I know people around me from twisted upbringing, not exclusively violent, and they have constant relationship problems just because they didn`t get the message of unconditional love and protection.

I agree that Axl's violent behavior surely has its roots on what he lived as a child, with his family, his own mother, father and stepfather. It was a lethal combination for his development into an adult man.

However, this should not be an excuse to justify his behavior towards women. Not everybody who goes through what he did, ends up being a wifebeater, though I admit many violent men have a similar lifestory.

It would have been important to put Axl into a serious treatment for anger management and for him to learn how to be in a relationship without ending up being a toxic partner.

1 hour ago, Alja said:

Still, if Axl even tried to charge Stephanie with abuse, this had to be serious (I also think that from descriptions of their relationship from other people from tight circle of GNR)

He acussed her of "grabbing his balls" during a fight, which turned out to be a defensive move that Stephanie had to use against him, for having attacked her first.

It was a one-time episode, not an ongoing physical abuse against him. She was wise enough to leave him quickly and leave that horrible violent environment.

Must say, Stephanie's situation was very different than Erin's. She had money and was already dating Brant. He helped her getting out.

1 hour ago, Alja said:

I was born and I live in Europe and I really don`t think something like patriarchy or what not stands between me and my dreams.

Of course, sweetheart. This is now, not then.

You are able to feel such empowerment in 2018 thanks to the struggle of so many women and feminists who fought for your rights during a whole century.

Men did not put you in this place of freedom. Women did. But it is so easy to bite the hand that feeds and to forget who came before you.

There are ungrateful beings everywhere.

 

[BorderlineCrazy]

So poor Axl got his hands beaten by evil Erin's face yet he gets acussed of being violent? Fucked up world!

[PaperDoll]

9 hours ago, Alja said:

Sorry, I studied for actual doctorate instead of going for every single detail of Axl`s process. Sometimes life itself punishes people to extent actual process against them is not held or is restrained (like when culprit of car accident is so badly injured they quash an indictment). With all of my heart I believe that any way you make someone not to repeat certain behavior is good, I`m against punishment which would lead to unnecessary damage. Axl was left in no good after the process. 

You keep bringing up your PhD. I don’t think I’ve ever brought it up, but I work for NASA, and a PhD just means you know a lot about a little. And if you have to keep bringing it up to bolster an argument, your argument isn’t worth the paper your PhD was printed on. 

Axl beat women. His previous experience of abuse might be a reason, but it’s not an excuse.

He should at this point in his life apologize for what he’s done to the women he beat and maybe find forgiveness. Then maybe he’ll have peace. Maybe he is deeply sorry, now. I hope so.

[MaskingApathy]

As far as Axl being on time and all that, there's probably heavy fines and such in the contracts if he misbehaves. Slash and Duff wouldn't agree to do the tour without all that addressed in the contracts.

[Georgina Arriaga]

I'm beyond sad

http://ultimateclassicrock.com/slash-2018-album/

 

Quote

 

Slash ft. Myles Kennedy and the Conspirators are in the process of recording their third album. According to a press release we received, there is neither a title yet nor do we have an exact release date other than the knowledge that it is expected in the fall.

He shared the above photo with him and the band in the studio with producer Michael “Elvis” Baskette, who also helmed Slash's last effort, 2014's World on Fire. In addition to Kennedy as vocalist, the Conspirators consist of guitarist Frank Sidoris, bassist Todd Kerns and drummer Brent Fitz.

 

 

 

“I'm excited about the new stuff we put together for this next record; it's got some cool songs and it's got a great live feel.” Slash said. "I've been working with Myles, Brent and Todd for about eight years now. It's been an amazing ride so far; as a band we continue to get better which is great. With the addition of Frank since the World on Fire tour, I feel we have hit a great, creative stride which I definitely think shows on this next record.”

They plan to announce a full North American tour to coincide with the new record, but Slash acknowledged that he remains committed to his work in Guns N' Roses. “Guns N’ Roses will be headlining European festivals this summer," he continued, "it’s going to be a 110% performance and a huge blast. I love doing European fests and this is the first time we’ve done any proper festivals over there on the ‘Not in This Lifetime Tour.' It’s indescribable to explain these shows. I’m looking over and seeing Axl [Rose], Duff [McKagan] and Dizzy [Reed] whom I’ve known forever, but it also feels like an entirely new experience with Richard [Fortes], Frank [Ferrer] and Melissa [Reese]. It’s like being in a new band, except there’s a chemistry that is established from days of old, so it’s a natural thing that’s always been there.”

 

 

[MillionsOfSpiders]

Axl will go to AC/DC @Georgina Arriaga don't be sad, you love them. I know how you feel, though. 

I have to say, is this Fernandos idea of 2018 being the best yet? Because honestly it feels more like a kick in the guts at the minute 

Edited March 22, 2018 by MillionsOfSpiders

[Andy14]

 

[Georgina Arriaga]

Well Team Brazil is fine with Slash's news...Beta likes the last Meegan announcement 

[traciij]

Kaaboo in Del Mar, CA tickets went on sale today, for September 2018.  Slash featuring Myles Kennedy and the Conspirators are on the line up....

Edited March 22, 2018 by traciij
Spelling

[killuridols]

29 minutes ago, Georgina Arriaga said:

Well Team Brazil is fine with Slash's news...Beta likes the last Meegan announcement 

What's the latest Meegan announcement?

----

Hmmm... I don't know what to say... but didn't we already know all of this? Meegan said Slash was recording that album and no one believed her (lol to them).

Slash himself said it even before the whole GN'R tour.

And we all smelled how much Axl wants or rather be? the singer for AC/DC than GN'R...

So.......... ...................... this is our reality now.

 

They will be so fuckin' old if they ever decide to release a GN'R album again.... but now I will have to believe the others I didn't, who said we will never get a new GN'R album.

 

Edited March 22, 2018 by killuridols