British Politics

[DieselDaisy]

21 minutes ago, Dazey said:

But there aren't or the backstop wouldn't be required. The technology that we keep hearing about simply doesn't exist in a suitable form at this time.

Feasible in the immediate future future - 2022 has been mooted - which is why the backstop should carry a cut-off date. Just to clarify it would entail a multifaceted solution, not just technological. 

[DieselDaisy]

Korea now. £14.6bn. Thus ''project fear''.

[Dazey]

1 hour ago, DieselDaisy said:

Feasible in the immediate future future - 2022 has been mooted - which is why the backstop should carry a cut-off date. Just to clarify it would entail a multifaceted solution, not just technological. 

But that just makes no sense hence why the backstop is the way it is. If it had a time limit then there is no incentive for any of this to be implemented. The whole point of the backstop is to safeguard against a hard Irish border. To flip the argument back on you then why are you arsed about the backstop if all these measures are available and can be implemented readily in the next year or two? Surely the only people who would be concerned are those who know that Boris is talking bollocks as the backstop would simply be unnecessary if a viable alternative was in place?

31 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Korea now. £14.6bn. 

So the same as we have now then?

Edited August 22, 2019 by Dazey

[SoulMonster]

"Project fear"? Is that a word for the Leave campaigns lies prior to the referendum?

[Dazey]

11 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

"Project fear"? Is that a word for the Leave campaigns lies prior to the referendum?

It's basically how the leave campaign refer to facts that show actual harm that this will cause to the country. 

[DieselDaisy]

15 minutes ago, Dazey said:

It's basically how the leave campaign refer to facts that show actual harm that this will cause to the country. 

Except much of it is absolute bollocks. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45990243

 

[DieselDaisy]

32 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

"Project fear"? Is that a word for the Leave campaigns lies prior to the referendum?

What lies would that be?

42 minutes ago, Dazey said:

So the same as we have now then?

Continuity deal - yes. 

[Dazey]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

Except much of it is absolute bollocks. 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-45990243

I guess we'll find out in exactly 10 weeks. I really rather hope that I am wrong. 

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Dazey said:

I guess we'll find out in exactly 10 weeks. I really rather hope that I am wrong. 

I don't think you do. Remainers are fifth columnists/national traitors, like Mosleyites during World War Two celebrating every British reversal/German victory, or like ''fellow travelers'' during the cold war. It is subservient version of Stockholm Syndrome. 

[Dazey]

6 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I don't think you do. Remainers are fifth columnists/national traitors, like Mosleyites during World War Two celebrating every British reversal/German victory, or like ''fellow travelers'' during the cold war. It is subservient version of Stockholm Syndrome. 

You don't half talk a load of bollocks at times!  

[DieselDaisy]

Even the Irish EU Commissioner doesn't understand the British constitution: ''unelected (Boris) prime minister''. No wonder remainers are so thick, if the EU Commission is this dense? 

1 minute ago, Dazey said:

You don't half talk a load of bollocks at times!  

You enjoy spreading your arse cheeks to the EU haha. 

[SoulMonster]

13 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Remainers are fifth columnists/national traitors

! You have gone absolutely off the rails 

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

! You have gone absolutely off the rails 

I guarantee you that the, let's say more zealous remainers, would applaud any economic downturn. 

[SoulMonster]

16 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

What lies would that be?

The 350m per week, that you could still remain in the single market, that Turkey would join the EU, etc. 

Or just read this: https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/list-of-brexit-lies

3 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I guarantee you that the, let's say more zealous remainers, would applaud any economic downturn. 

I don't care about the "more zealous remainers", I am reacting to your outrageous statement that remainers, all of them, are national traitors (!). Are you proposing they should be charged with treason? Serve time in prison? Maybe be shot?

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

The 350m per week, that you could still remain in the single market, that Turkey would join the EU, etc. 

Or just read this: https://www.gq-magazine.co.uk/article/list-of-brexit-lies

The £350m per week is actually correct (it is actually more like £361m). That is approximately the gross that the United Kingdom pays into the EU budget.

Turkey received candidate status in 1999 and began negotiations 2005.

[soon]

As long as Stilton cheese keeps arriving in Canada, thats my only concern. So Im caught up on the perfect brexit halloween costume.

But I think Id make a good Zombie Boris Johnson, actually. Or Brexit looter.

[Dazey]

15 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I guarantee you that the, let's say more zealous remainers, would applaud any economic downturn. 

Yet pretty much every argument I’ve made against Brexit is due to the economic damage it is likely to cause. You on the other hand have said that you don’t care about damaging the economy as long as you get your blue passport back. 

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, Dazey said:

Yet pretty much every argument I’ve made against Brexit is due to the economic damage it is likely to cause. You on the other hand have said that you don’t care about damaging the economy as long as you get your blue passport back. 

I don't believe I have ever mentioned the blue passport, although it would be nice to receive one!

 

[SoulMonster]

5 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The £350m per week is actually correct (it is actually more like £361m). That is approximately the gross that the United Kingdom pays into the EU budget.

Turkey received candidate status in 1999 and began negotiations 2005.

But it wasn't described as gross, it was described as UK getting 350m net more per week. The net is actually 250m. But whether it is 250m or 350m is entirely moot considering the effects of leaving the single market isn't included.

And Turkey isn't joining the EU. The European Parliament votes in favor of suspending negotiations with the EU prior to the referendum and Merkel has stated Turkey will never be part of the EU.

But again, this is just you being wrong on facts again, it is much more interesting to discuss your statement that people who want the UK to remain in EU are national traitors. What do you think should be done with all of them? I mean, you are talking about half of the population? You can't possible send them all to prison.

[DieselDaisy]

5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

But it wasn't described as gross, it was described as UK getting 350m net more per week. The net is actually 250m. But whether it is 250m or 350m is entirely moot considering the effects of leaving the single market isn't included.

It didn't specify net. Here is the actual statement,

5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

And Turkey isn't joining the EU. The European Parliament votes in favor of suspending negotiations with the EU prior to the referendum and Merkel has stated Turkey will never be part of the EU.

Stalled because of the coup d'état.

6 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

But again, this is just you being wrong on facts again, it is much more interesting to discuss your statement that people who want the UK to remain in EU are national traitors. What do you think should be done with all of them? I mean, you are talking about half of the population? You can't possible send them all to prison.

Well, facetiousness is not something you usually pick up on so I'll forgive you this, taking a glib remark by me and taking in extremis, however many of the more zealous remainers do seem to be under a sort of Stockholm syndrome. When combined with a lack of intellect and historical knowledge, as well as a complete absence of any knowledge of the actual thing they love (i.e., the EU) it leads to some interesting conversations. 

There was a chap at the cricket, remainer, who was stressing that he is being ''robbed of his European status''. ''I am European'' he insisted. I didn't want to remind him that 31% of Europe's population do not belong to the European Union!

[SoulMonster]

7 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

It didn't specify net. Here is the actual statement,

A carefully worded text to make people think that by leaving the EU they would have 350m more weekly to spend on other things. Which is untrue since it isn't the net outcome when all things considered, and not even the net when taking rebates and money from EU to the UK into consideration. It is basically just a part of the equation presented as the end result. Which is why it was a lie to present it that way.

9 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Well, facetiousness is not something you usually pick up on so I'll forgive you this, taking a glib remark by me and taking in extremis

 

So you are backtracking now, admitting you don't consider all remainers to be "national traitors". Okay. How many of them? 50 %? 25 %? And what should be done to these national traitors? In wartime you could shoot them. I wouldn't be surprised if you consider the threat of the EU similar to the threat of Nazism and that this moment of Brexit is as crucial to the future of the UK as D day.

It is these kinds of vulgar exaggerations, where you can't see that the text on the bus implies that leaving the EU would result in 350m more to spend on NHS every week, and where you refer to all remainers as "national traitors", that throw shadows of doubt and skepticism on everything you write, even that which might come across as superficially plausible. It is basically impossible to take anything you say at face value, because you either don't understand the things you read or you are apt to deliberately hide something or skew facts. Ugh. 

[Dazey]

16 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

It didn't specify net. Here is the actual statement,

So why didn't it say £250 million instead given that with the rebate we could have spent the other £100 million on the NHS without leaving?

[DieselDaisy]

6 minutes ago, Dazey said:

So why didn't it say £250 million instead given that with the rebate we could have spent the other £100 million on the NHS without leaving?

I don't even know why they just quoted the net of rebate/PSRs figure seeing as, for ''normal'' people, £161 million per week is as good as £350 million as we look on such sums in abstract. I honestly don't know the reasoning there.

NB., and this is in answer to Soul also, including the gross is itself rhetorical as the PSRs is money - our money - we don't control. 

7 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

So you are backtracking now, admitting you don't consider all remainers to be "national traitors". Okay. How many of them? 50 %? 25 %? And what should be done to these national traitors? In wartime you could shoot them. I wouldn't be surprised if you consider the threat of the EU similar to the threat of Nazism and that this moment of Brexit is as crucial to the future of the UK as D day.

It is these kinds of vulgar exaggerations, where you can't see that the text on the bus implies that leaving the EU would result in 350m more to spend on NHS every week, and where you refer to all remainers as "national traitors", that throw shadows of doubt and skepticism on everything you write, even that which might come across as superficially plausible. It is basically impossible to take anything you say at face value, because you either don't understand the things you read or you are apt to deliberately hide something or skew facts. Ugh. 

I was also discussing Dazey being rogered up the buttocks by somebody called the ''EU''. Surely that should have told you something, that I was being quasi-facetious? You are being ''Teutonic'' in your literalness. But by all means, I espouse sending all remainers to Tower Hill, Elton John, Gary Lineker - especially Gary Lineker - and that science/Britpopy Lanc.

Edited August 22, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[Dazey]

6 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I don't even know why they just quoted the net of rebate/PSRs figure seeing as, for ''normal'' people, £161 million per week is as good as £350 million as we look on such sums in abstract. I honestly don't know the reasoning there.

I already pointed out a few pages ago that leaving with no deal would effectively mean we wouldn't be getting any of that £350 million a week back to spend on anything. In fact we would more than likely be paying even more in real terms. Your answer to that was that you didn't care as the economics weren't of interest to you.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Dazey

[DieselDaisy]

4 minutes ago, Dazey said:

I already pointed out that the a few pages ago that leaving with no deal would effectively mean we wouldn't be getting any of that £350 million a week back to spend on anything. In fact we would more than likely be paying even more in real terms. Your answer to that was that you didn't care as the economics weren't of interest to you.

I don't believe I said that (you are as proficient with misquotation and straw men as Soul!) but we are a net contributor to the EU, meaning we put in more than we pull out. Factor out the rebate and PSRs, we will be £161 million per week better off.

 

PS, broken down,

£361 million per week gross

£276 net of rebate

£188 net of rebate, Public Sector Receipts 

£161 net of rebate, Public Sector and Private Sector Receipts

Edited August 22, 2019 by DieselDaisy