British Politics

[soon]

Outside of Northern Ireland has there been any insurrectionary resistance to Brexit? Im aware of the threats made by some on the Leave side. But just generally speaking Twitter polls seems tame in comparison to US militias protecting right-wing murderer's rallies. Or Quebec's FLQ? Or even just like the blockades associated with indigenous resistance here?

Edited August 17, 2019 by soon

[DieselDaisy]

58 minutes ago, soon said:

Outside of Northern Ireland has there been any insurrectionary resistance to Brexit? Im aware of the threats made by some on the Leave side. But just generally speaking Twitter polls seems tame in comparison to US militias protecting right-wing murderer's rallies. Or Quebec's FLQ? Or even just like the blockades associated with indigenous resistance here?

No - and not in Northern Ireland either.

The British don't really do insurrections, well not since the 17th century. Probably because we developed a balanced representative constitution and solved our religious conflict much earlier than most European countries. 

Edited August 17, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[soon]

33 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

No - and not in Northern Ireland either.

The British don't really do insurrections, well not since the 17th century. Probably because we developed a balanced representative constitution and solved our religious conflict much earlier than most European countries. 

Thanks for filling me in. Sounds nice. I guess Im aware of the conversation about how social media, AI an 'fake news' can negatively impact the process in ways that were not seen before? 

My govt have concluded that foreign influence is a threat to our elections and is taking action to combat that. But I gather that this possible overriding of the democratic process hasnt produced any new forms of resistance there. Y'all are like unicorns of peace.  

[DieselDaisy]

4 minutes ago, soon said:

Thanks for filling me in. Sounds nice. I guess Im aware of the conversation about how social media, AI an 'fake news' can negatively impact the process in ways that were not seen before? 

My govt have concluded that foreign influence is a threat to our elections and is taking action to combat that. But I gather that this possible overriding of the democratic process hasnt produced any new forms of resistance there. Y'all are like unicorns of peace.  

I thought you meant ''insurrection'' to mean violent protest, not dodgy media.

[soon]

51 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I thought you meant ''insurrection'' to mean violent protest, not dodgy media.

I did mean "violent protest", yes. What the word means. Including more broadly, activities that are intended to build an insurrectionary capacity. 

What I mean to say is that if the otherwise well-functioning, representative, democratic process was corrupted by foreign influence, fake news and AI then people may not have been as satisfied as they were with previous votes. And therefore some may resist what they would point to as an "undemocratic" process, outside of the 'corrupted' process? (And I hear you say that is not the case)

 

 

Edited August 17, 2019 by soon

[DieselDaisy]

32 minutes ago, soon said:

I did mean violent protest, yes. Including more broadly, activities that are intended to build an insurrectionary capacity. 

What I mean to say is that if the otherwise well-functioning, representative, democratic process was corrupted by foreign influence, fake news and AI then people may not have been as satisfied as they were with previous votes. And therefore some may resist what they would point to as an "undemocratic" process, outside of the 'corrupted' process? (And I hear you say that is not the case)

 

 

Pertaining to the media, I'm sure a lot of leave news/opinion is derided by remain as ''fake news'', and a lot of remain news/opinion is similarly derided (cf. Project Fear/scaremongering) but neither side has quite reached the stage of ''storming the ramparts''. There has been protests by leave (a lot of old men going for a hike, as if they're members of a walking club), and remain (a lot of upper middle class snowflakey students and rich celebrities) but it has all transpired peacefully. The EDL, replete with Stella cans, turned up briefly and caused a bit of a ruckus but nothing much came of it. Britons make poor revolutionaries. The French do this much better. 

[soon]

13 hours ago, DieselDaisy said:

Pertaining to the media, I'm sure a lot of leave news/opinion is derided by remain as ''fake news'', and a lot of remain news/opinion is similarly derided (cf. Project Fear/scaremongering) but neither side has quite reached the stage of ''storming the ramparts''. There has been protests by leave (a lot of old men going for a hike, as if they're members of a walking club), and remain (a lot of upper middle class snowflakey students and rich celebrities) but it has all transpired peacefully. The EDL, replete with Stella cans, turned up briefly and caused a bit of a ruckus but nothing much came of it. Britons make poor revolutionaries. The French do this much better. 

This ‘misleading’ social media brexit headlines fiasco comes to mind:

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/www.buzzfeed.com/amphtml/jimwaterson/more-than-40-of-british-voters-are-aware-of-that-misleading

EDL wouldn’t know its ass from its face! Haha. But you’ve got Disabled people against the cuts. 

You had the diggers and levellers along with those slavery abolitionist.

and the union resistance under thatcher - I’ve see the movie Pride. Just the song bread and roses expresses a tendency to resist.

one of my provinces most prominent radicals is an Englishmen. In part famous for fighting cops with bare fists on the lawn of the provincial capital building - leading to a full scale televised riot.

Not to mention William Godwin. An extremely important anarchist thinker and father of Frankenstein author Mary shelley.

but the insurrectionary current ain’t there? I find this fascinating.

But yeah, the French do it better here as well . It’s inspired.

thanks for filling me in. 

 

[action]

imagine free traffic of EU citizens between the EU and the UK coming to a complete halt this oktober 31th.

that will be a lot of laughs

[DieselDaisy]

11 hours ago, action said:

imagine free traffic of EU citizens between the EU and the UK coming to a complete halt this oktober 31th.

that will be a lot of laughs

It is really the EU's decision seeing as they are sticking adamantly to the ''withdrawal agreement in toto or die!!!'' script, and not willing to negotiate on specific issues. The United Kingdom wanted to guarantee citizens' rights for instance,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47408789

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1155505/Brexit-news-UK-EU-no-deal-Michel-Barnier-citizens-rights-latest-update

[Len Cnut]

I had to google Gemma Collins...some fat slag apparently.

[soon]

Kinda a dick move, y'all dumped Jihadi Jack on us

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/jihadi-jack-citizenship-uk-canada-1.5251437

[action]

it's bewildering how there are images surfacing of prince andrew in epstein's apartment, waving at a young girl leaving the building, but buckingham palace is denying anything happened.

do you people actually support such an institution? How do you reconcile your love for your royalty, with the knowledge that they're probably supporting pedophiles?

Edited August 20, 2019 by action

[AtariLegend]

The backstop was the only part of May's deal that wasn't a bad deal. Time for an England only deal where England leaves the uk and leaves the rest of us in the eu. You can keep the Welsh if you want.

I'm no longer a believer in this union.

Edited August 20, 2019 by AtariLegend

[Dazey]

On 19/08/2019 at 8:08 AM, DieselDaisy said:

It is really the EU's decision seeing as they are sticking adamantly to the ''withdrawal agreement in toto or die!!!'' script, and not willing to negotiate on specific issues. The United Kingdom wanted to guarantee citizens' rights for instance,

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-47408789

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1155505/Brexit-news-UK-EU-no-deal-Michel-Barnier-citizens-rights-latest-update

It’s more like the UK government’s decision given that they’re the ones continuing to drive us over a cliff edge. The EU has said from day 1 that the withdrawal agreement wasn’t up for renegotiation. Furthermore the same rabid Brexiteers who claimed that the Irish backstop was unnecessary seem utterly incapable of coming up with a workable alternative. It’s almost as if they’ve been lying out of their arses the whole time. 

To reiterate.

On 12/08/2019 at 12:37 PM, DieselDaisy said:

Circa,

£18.7 bn gross per year

£14.3 bn net of rebate

£9.7 bn net of rebate/public sector receipts

£8.3 bn net of rebate/public sector receipts and private sector receipts

 

On 12/08/2019 at 1:02 PM, Dazey said:

So £8.3 bn overall net contribution then?

That's equivalent to a 5% (ish) overall tariff on imports based on last year's figures. For reference WTO tariffs on automotive imports are set at 10%. We bought just over £50 billion in cars and car components from the EU in 2018 so at 10% that's already 2/3 of your £8.3 billion gone on day 1. 

We spent £34 billion in grocery imports from the EU last year. Under a no deal these items could be subject to up to £9 billion in tariffs. 

So looking at just two examples we're already at £14 billion in tariffs or a negative saving of about £5.7 billion. But at least we'll all be free from the dreaded EU propaganda eh?

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Dazey

[AtariLegend]

2 hours ago, Dazey said:

It’s more like the UK government’s decision given that they’re the ones continuing to drive us over a cliff edge. The EU has said from day 1 that the withdrawal agreement wasn’t up for renegotiation. Furthermore the same rabid Brexiteers who claimed that the Irish backstop was unnecessary seem utterly incapable of coming up with a workable alternative. It’s almost as if they’ve been lying out of their arses the whole time. 

We've seen the Erg'rs multiple times on Newsnight since Boris became pm themselves say they wouldn't vote for it even if the backstop was removed.

It's nonscense. Only the dup care about it, because they like the idea of a wall down the border. For the erg types like redwood, they want no deal.

This was always going to happen anyway. Both sides are legally obligated to put up borders, Johnson's cabinet are briefing that it very likely, despite the horse shit he spews on tv.

You cannot have someone pop on a plane to Dublin, get a train to Larne and then get a ferry to Liverpool or Scotland without a passport. Could you imagine the tabloid stories? Brexit means border and the dup like it. Seriously doubt most of the Torries could give a fuck, because their voters sure as hell don't. 

Edited August 21, 2019 by AtariLegend

[SoulMonster]

On 19.8.2019 at 9:08 AM, DieselDaisy said:

It is really the EU's decision seeing as they are sticking adamantly to the ''withdrawal agreement in toto or die!!!'' script, and not willing to negotiate on specific issues. 

Perhaps you should have thought about the possibility that the EU might not simply give you all you want in negotiations, before fleeing the EU? 

First you complain about the EU not changing to accommodate your desires, then you complain about the EU not giving you what you want when you scurry off. 

Tough shit. 

[Len Cnut]

41 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Perhaps you should have thought about the possibility that the EU might not simply give you all you want in negotiations, before fleeing the EU?

Like he actually voted, he ain't leaving his seat unless there's some English willow involved  

[AtariLegend]

3 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Like he actually voted, he ain't leaving his seat unless there's some English willow involved  

...of course he voted out. No one bangs on about gibberish in the telegraph more than him.

Edited August 21, 2019 by AtariLegend

[DieselDaisy]

9 hours ago, SoulMonster said:

Perhaps you should have thought about the possibility that the EU might not simply give you all you want in negotiations, before fleeing the EU? 

First you complain about the EU not changing to accommodate your desires, then you complain about the EU not giving you what you want when you scurry off. 

Tough shit. 

I am not complaining about anything, and never doubted the EU being stubborn negotiators. The millionth straw man by you I fear.

5 hours ago, AtariLegend said:

...of course he voted out. No one bangs on about gibberish in the telegraph more than him.

I didn't vote - no. Was at the cricket that day as I recall.

[SoulMonster]

19 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I am not complaining about anything, and never doubted the EU being stubborn negotiators. The millionth straw man by you I fear.

I didn't vote - no. Was at the cricket that day as I recall.

"You" as in "you Brits". And your posts about the EU, both the institution and the exit process, sure come across as complaining. 

[EvanG]

I am so there!

https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/21/massive-brexit-beach-party-planned-holland-say-goodbye-uk-10606270/

[DieselDaisy]

On 8/21/2019 at 1:14 AM, Dazey said:

It’s more like the UK government’s decision given that they’re the ones continuing to drive us over a cliff edge. The EU has said from day 1 that the withdrawal agreement wasn’t up for renegotiation. Furthermore the same rabid Brexiteers who claimed that the Irish backstop was unnecessary seem utterly incapable of coming up with a workable alternative. It’s almost as if they’ve been lying out of their arses the whole time. 

There are alternatives such as customs checks before goods depart, and technological solutions.

Thing is, the withdrawal agreement was negotiated by the proceeding cabinet - not this cabinet - and has been thrice thrown out of parliament. It is a stubborn negotiator indeed who adamantly sticks to a deal the opposition number is completely incapable of obtaining an agreement upon. Incidentally if you watched that documentary on Brexit and Verhofstadt the EU Parliamentary Brexit team found ardent remainers such as yourself complete pains in the arses as they stifled the passing of the withdrawal agreement.

[DieselDaisy]

19 hours ago, AtariLegend said:

...of course he voted out. No one bangs on about gibberish in the telegraph more than him.

I rarely read the Telegraph as it is paywalled. 

[Dazey]

49 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

There are alternatives such as customs checks before goods depart, and technological solutions.

But there aren't or the backstop wouldn't be required. The technology that we keep hearing about simply doesn't exist in a suitable form at this time.

[Len Cnut]

11 hours ago, EvanG said:

I am so there!

https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/21/massive-brexit-beach-party-planned-holland-say-goodbye-uk-10606270/

Fair dues thats pretty fuckin' hilairious