British Politics

[Dazey]

14 minutes ago, bucketfoot said:

Who's that?

She reminds me of Michelle Dewberry.

Layla Moran. Lib Dem - Oxford West and Abingdon. Seems I can also have a crush on women who aren't evil.  

She was on Have I Got News for You this week. Reminds me of somebody I can't quite place.

Edit. Fuck me it's Phoebe Waller Bridge! It's the teeth!  

Edited October 13, 2019 by Dazey

[bucketfoot]

8 minutes ago, Dazey said:

Layla Moran. Lib Dem

I've heard the name but never seen a pic of her before. Not bad at all from that pic.

[Dazey]

What do you think of the Tories new immigration policy @Len Cnut. Send all the Pakis up north.  

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7566533/Home-Secretary-Priti-Patels-migrant-points-plan-help-boost-northern-economy.html

[Len Cnut]

6 hours ago, Dazey said:

What do you think of the Tories new immigration policy @Len Cnut. Send all the Pakis up north.  

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7566533/Home-Secretary-Priti-Patels-migrant-points-plan-help-boost-northern-economy.html

As long as they don’t start sending the old ones I’m not arsed   People come to England for a better life, if the only option available is Barnsley they’ll probably fuckin’ leave after a fortnight   Thats a point, re-open the mines, I mean the whole issue with Scargill and that was over wages, weren’t it?  Bung some of my lot down there on 2.50 an hour, they’ll soon naff off back   

[Len Cnut]

9 hours ago, Dazey said:

This one's a bit of alright.

Why do you aspire to crumpet clearly outside of your ilk?  What is it, the horsieness, the unobtainability, the dead expression in their eye that leaves you thinkin’ they might be sexually suggestible?  

[Dazey]

 

 Not political but very British.  

[DieselDaisy]

Remainiacs getting ''offended'' by Union Flags present at Houses of Parliament - for State Opening of Parliament for crying out loud. ''Fascist'' apparently? 

Cough,

 

[MillionsOfSpiders]

The NHS is unable to take care of the most vulnerable people in this country any more (or it’s getting even worse at it). After 20 years of working for them I’ve just witnessed the worst case of suffering and neglect caused by lack of paramedics and ambulance availability. 

It’s really frightening how far the NHS has fallen and continues to get worse without anyone finding a real solution.

 

[SoulMonster]

A really interesting article on England and its failure to come to a closure with its past as an empire:

"The United Kingdom is currently reminiscent of a team that has crashed into the OBOS league, but stubbornly claims it belongs in the Champions League. Boris Johnson's Brexit strategy is to scare the EU into accepting his terms because his powerful and large countries can live without a deal, but the EU cannot.

The United Kingdom is an example of countries that are unable to relate to their own past, can't have a future.

British voters are now sandwiched between the empire nostalgia of Boris Johnson or old man socialism of Jeremy Corbyn. Neither of the dominant political parties in the UK can handle the present, both longing for a bygone era. The irony is that the UK is perishing because of exaggerated thoughts of its own greatness."

Source: https://www.aftenposten.no/meninger/kommentar/i/70JjVK/det-britiske-imperiet-er-doedt-men-det-lever-videre-inne-i-hodet-til-boris-johnson-ketil-raknes

[MillionsOfSpiders]

What a load of rubbish @SoulMonster - not everyone in the UK thinks like that at all. 

[DieselDaisy]

6 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

The NHS is unable to take care of the most vulnerable people in this country any more (or it’s getting even worse at it). After 20 years of working for them I’ve just witnessed the worst case of suffering and neglect caused by lack of paramedics and ambulance availability. 

It’s really frightening how far the NHS has fallen and continues to get worse without anyone finding a real solution.

 

My mother - retired now - quit the NHS years ago, working privately, as standards were so poor. She blamed the abolition of matrons, among other things.

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

What a load of rubbish @SoulMonster - not everyone in the UK thinks like that at all. 

And here is me seeing Brexit as an ample occasion to dust off the old pith helmet and belt out ''Men of Harlech''!

[SoulMonster]

10 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

What a load of rubbish @SoulMonster - not everyone in the UK thinks like that at all. 

I think the author meant to describe the two largest parties, not what everybody in the UK thinks.

[MillionsOfSpiders]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

I think the author meant to describe the two largest parties, not what everybody in the UK thinks.

And it seems that we either agree with one or the other, so that would be most of us then. 

You seem to enjoy pointing out how much we overestimate ourselves as a country and how we have this desire to return to the good old days of The Empire - I don’t know anybody living here who does that. 

[DieselDaisy]

It is paywalled and in some savage Viking tongue but begins with a description of Queen Victoria's Jubilee haha!! 

[SoulMonster]

Here's the entire article, translated using google translate:

"The British Empire is dead. But it lives on inside Boris Johnson's head. | Ketil Raknes

The lack of settlement of the past means that the British Empire lives on as a pipe dream on the British right.

On June 22, 1897, 400 million people, or more than a quarter of humanity, were freed to celebrate the fact that Queen Victoria had been sitting at the British throne for 60 years. 50,000 soldiers from around the world marched through the streets of London where princes, dukes and ambassadors from all over the world had made their way to the heart of the empire.

The British Empire is the largest and most powerful empire the world has seen.

The empire where the sun never set, long ruled over a quarter of the earth's surface and was joined by the world's most powerful marine and a fine-mesh global trade network.

On the way to history's scrap heap
At that time, eight-year-old Arnold Toynbee, who would later become one of Britain's greatest historians, sat securely on his uncle's shoulders and looked out over the wonderful parade.

He described it later that day "that the sun stood still in the middle of nowhere". About the atmosphere he wrote that "well, here we are at the top of the world, and we have come to this peak to stay there forever. There is of course something called history, but history is something troublesome that happens to other peoples. "

Toynbee later became an expert on the growth and fall of civilizations and quickly realized that no one remained on top of the world forever. 50 years and two world wars after Toynbee saw the parade from his uncle's shoulders, the British Empire was on its way to history's scrap heap.

Statesman and racist
In 1947, Winston Churchill had to acknowledge that India was lost and stated that "it is with deep grief I watch the clattering down of the British Empire with all its glories and all the services it has rendered to mankind". Churchill was a great statesman who saved Europe during World War II, but he was also a racist who believed fully in the British Empire and the superiority of the white race.

Churchill dreamed of chaining Mahatma Gandhi and letting him be trampled to death by elephants. He referred to the Indians as "an animal people with an animal religion," and the Palestinians were "barbarian hordes who eat little other than camel shit."

Churchill's judgment of the British Empire as a gift to humanity is still alive. A typical example is the conservative historian Niall Ferguson, who in the book Empire: How Britain Made the Modern World argues that the British Empire made the world a better place. The British created a global trading system that increased the welfare of all.

It is true that the British Empire built the railway in India and the trenches in Egypt, but the British empire was also built on racism, slave trade and brutal oppression.

Colonized the world and lost it
British schoolchildren learn that the United Kingdom abolished slavery in 1833 and paid substantial compensation. What they often do not learn is that the slaves received nothing in compensation, while the 46,000 British owned slaves received the largest compensation in British history. In addition, the slaves had to work 45 hours free every week for four years for their former slave owners.

It has been said that "the Germans use history to think ahead, while the British use history to comfort themselves".

In Germany, the relentless settlement of the Nazi past has built one of the world's most stable and self-critical democracies. The British, for their part, have never coped with the loss of their own empire and comforts themselves with World War II hero stories.
In films such as Dunkirk and Darkest Hour, the mythological notion that Britain is at its best when the country stands alone against the world is cultivated, while the story of how the colonized world and its loss is displaced.

A pipe dream of the right
It is easy to understand that for conservative politicians in the UK, the last 120 years have emerged as a continuous downturn. From being the world's largest empire with the world's largest economy, it has been reduced to a fairly ordinary nation-state with ever less international influence.
In 2019, India will pass the UK as the world's 5th largest economy, and the German economy alone is both bigger and more efficient than the UK.

The lack of settlement of the past causes the British Empire to live on as a pipe dreamon the British right.

When Boris Johnson was to speak to the Conservative Party Congress in 2016, he proudly described what it was like to work from a place "where you controlled an empire that was seven times larger than Rome" and that "from these offices, 178 countries became the world either conquered or invaded ». The words were followed by the highest cheer of the national assembly.

The EU as a barrier to global power
Johnson, like his great model, Winston Churchill, does not have particularly high thoughts about the Empire's former subjects. In 2017, the British ambassador to Burma had to stop Johnson from quoting a poem by British colonialism's high priest, Rudyard Kipling, in a Burmese temple.
When working as a journalist, Johnson referred to the inhabitants of an African country as "little blacks" with "watermelon miles," and about Uganda he wrote that "the problem is not that we once ruled there, the problem is that we no longer rule there" .

The idea of Boris Johnson and many of his allies is that the EU stands in the way of the United Kingdom once again becoming a global superpower.

Outside the EU, the United Kingdom, together with its ancient colonies and the United States, can enter into better trade agreements and gain greater influence in the world than they have today. During the Brexit campaign, Boris Johnson told voters that the goal was "to take the chains off the giant, unshackled Britannia and let the Lion roar again".

In the face of such grandiose delusions, it is impossible for the EU to conduct realistic negotiations with the United Kingdom.

The downfall of the empire
The United Kingdom is currently reminiscent of a team that has crashed into the OBOS league, but stubbornly claims it belongs in the Champions League. Boris Johnson's Brexit strategy is to scare the EU into accepting his terms because his powerful and large countries can live without a deal, but the EU cannot.

The United Kingdom is an example of countries that are unable to relate to their own past, cannot have a future.

British voters are now sandwiched between the empire ostalgia of Boris Johnson or old man socialism of Jeremy Corbyn. Neither of the dominant political parties in the UK can handle the present, both longing for a bygone era. The irony is that the UK is perishing because of exaggerated thoughts of its own greatness.

It is a downfall worthy of an empire.

 

[DieselDaisy]

It is some of the most unhistorical tripe I have ever read. 

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

It is some of the most unhistorical tripe I have ever read. 

It was kind of a given you would just dismiss it

I have no idea personally how accurately it reflects the zeitgeist of England, just thought it was interesting and it reminded me of you, Diesel.

[SoulMonster]

11 minutes ago, MillionsOfSpiders said:

You seem to enjoy pointing out how much we overestimate ourselves as a country and how we have this desire to return to the good old days of The Empire - I don’t know anybody living here who does that. 

I don't think many of you literally wants you to become an empire again, but with a glorious history like yours I can understand there would be some resentment about becoming just another union state with power moved to Brussels, among some Brits. I think it can help to explain some of the sentiment. I find it only natural that with your proud history, coming to grips with mediocrity might be more challenging and can add to the desire to leave the EU.

Edited October 13, 2019 by SoulMonster

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

It was kind of a given you would just dismiss it

I have no idea personally how accurately it reflects the zeitgeist of England, just thought it was interesting and it reminded me of you, Diesel.

I stopped reading when it reiterated numerous Churchill fallacies - debunked by serious historians. 

[SoulMonster]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

I stopped reading when it reiterated numerous Churchill fallacies - debunked by serious historians. 

Oh, that is disappointing to hear. Which ones are you talking about?

[DieselDaisy]

Churchill pertaining to race. In fact some of it I have never even heard of to be honest - he didn't even repeat the line about Gandhi being a ''half-naked fakir'' which is the most damning. It is a very Anglophobic piece in all honesty.

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

Churchill pertaining to race. In fact some of it I have never even heard of to be honest - he didn't even repeat the line about Gandhi being a ''half-naked fakir'' which is the most damning. It is a very Anglophobic piece in all honesty.

It seems like the author got all the Churchill quotes correctly:

https://winstonchurchill.org/the-life-of-churchill/senior-statesman/the-empire-lost/

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/04/churchill-gandhi-briton-indian-greatest/584170/ "as a beastly people with a beastly religion"

https://richardlangworth.com/quotes-churchill-never-said-2 He told me I was crazy to help the Arabs, because they were a backward people who ate nothing but camel dung.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/not-his-finest-hour-the-dark-side-of-winston-churchill-2118317.html Gandhi "ought to be lain bound hand and foot at the gates of Delhi, and then trampled on by an enormous elephant with the new Viceroy seated on its back."

Granted, this was just a quick check by me, so I could have missed something, but it certainly suggests that Churchill was a racist. So I kind of have a problem with your claim that the article "reiterated numerous Churchill fallacies - debunked by serious historians". What are those numerous fallacies? Yo have already objected to Churchill being a racist, and I have to say it certainly looks like he might have been. What else?

And just googling "Churchill racist" gives lots of reputable articles, like these:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/churchill-was-a-racist-but-still-a-great-man-vnhkhfnpm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/02/03/the-dark-side-of-winston-churchills-legacy-no-one-should-forget/

[DieselDaisy]

4 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

It seems like the author got all the Churchill quotes correctly:

https://winstonchurchill.org/the-life-of-churchill/senior-statesman/the-empire-lost/

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/04/churchill-gandhi-briton-indian-greatest/584170/ "as a beastly people with a beastly religion"

https://richardlangworth.com/quotes-churchill-never-said-2 He told me I was crazy to help the Arabs, because they were a backward people who ate nothing but camel dung.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/not-his-finest-hour-the-dark-side-of-winston-churchill-2118317.html Gandhi "ought to be lain bound hand and foot at the gates of Delhi, and then trampled on by an enormous elephant with the new Viceroy seated on its back."

Granted, this was just a quick check by me, so I could have missed something, but it certainly suggests that Churchill was a racist. So I kind of have a problem with your claim that the article "reiterated numerous Churchill fallacies - debunked by serious historians". What are those numerous fallacies? Yo have already objected to Churchill being a racist, and I have to say it certainly looks like he might have been. What else?

And just googling "Churchill racist" gives lots of reputable articles, like these:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/churchill-was-a-racist-but-still-a-great-man-vnhkhfnpm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/02/03/the-dark-side-of-winston-churchills-legacy-no-one-should-forget/

Oh, there is a lot on Churchill being a racist - I know. Much of it lacking context, judging Churchill by today's moral climate, and some of it just fabricated (and descending to bizarre conspiracy theories and utter gibberish). Churchill has become a sort of an magnet for (internet) Anglophobia. Andrew Roberts' book and the official biographies debunk much of these claims.

I wrote a reply to your above but it is lost as my internet had conked out. But in brief, the things you point out, ''proud history'' worship and disliking competences going to Brussels, are not uniquely British.

 

[soon]

There is a "Wexit" party here now  So thanks for that Brits! Based out of Calgary - the West. They are social conservatives but "Wexit" sounds a little 'fabulous' to my ears 

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTvt9aBZkNFTCrpj7QOGqlA