AtariLegend Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 So Saturday it seems might be the last decent chance to force a second referendum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Padme said: If Labour, Lib.Dem, SNP, etc support this deal. Then Tories won't need DUP. But I don't know how Labour and others feel about this deal The LDs, SNP and about 2/3rds of Labour are pathological remainers, opposed to any deal, soft or otherwise. Edited October 16, 2019 by DieselDaisy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padme Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 7 hours ago, DieselDaisy said: The LDs, SNP and about 2/3rds of Labour are pathological remainers, opposed to any deal, soft or otherwise. At this point supporting or rejecting anything doesn't make any sense. Because a deal has not been made yet. All we have is negotiations, And apparently there is some degree of agreement about some key issues. But a lot needs to be polished. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 6 hours ago, Padme said: At this point supporting or rejecting anything doesn't make any sense. Because a deal has not been made yet. All we have is negotiations, And apparently there is some degree of agreement about some key issues. But a lot needs to be polished. They would probably reject any deal regardless of its contents because they believe that leaving under any circumstances is unacceptable. At least from the SNP's perspective, this is consistent because they believe they represent the interests of Scotland over those of the wider UK and every constituency in Scotland voted to remain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padme Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 1 hour ago, Graeme said: They would probably reject any deal regardless of its contents because they believe that leaving under any circumstances is unacceptable. At least from the SNP's perspective, this is consistent because they believe they represent the interests of Scotland over those of the wider UK and every constituency in Scotland voted to remain. I believe Boris should talk with everybody despite different positions, mostly as a matter of good will. An olive branch won't hurt anyone. This possible deal aside, a healing process is necessary after everything that went on since Boris took office. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucketfoot Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 19 hours ago, Dazey said: Mark Francois is a fat wanker so I can't feel too sorry about that. Francois is absolutely key to all of this. He relentlessly voted down May's deal because he knew it basically kept us trapped in the EU and he is an extreme Brexiteer. If Boris can get him to back his deal, along with other hardliners like Steve Baker and Bill Cash (and obviously, the DUP), it is very likely to get through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 16 minutes ago, bucketfoot said: Francois is absolutely key to all of this. He relentlessly voted down May's deal because he knew it basically kept us trapped in the EU and he is an extreme Brexiteer. If Boris can get him to back his deal, along with other hardliners like Steve Baker and Bill Cash (and obviously, the DUP), it is very likely to get through. As a Brexiter yourself would you be happy to vote for this new deal? At least assuming that what we've heard so far is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucketfoot Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, Dazey said: As a Brexiter yourself would you be happy to vote for this new deal? At least assuming that what we've heard so far is true. I want to look at the deal in detail as it is shrouded in mystery, currently but if Francois, Baker and Cash greenlight it, that would be enough for me to be honest. Francois certainly nailed it with this one, what a tosser that 'Stop Brexit!' clown is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 Here's one for you @DieselDaisy. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/students-call-to-block-manchester-gandhi-statue-because-hes-racist-a4262711.html The campaign leader banned the clap at Manchester Uni a couple of years back so she's a force to be reckoned with it seems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dazey said: Here's one for you @DieselDaisy. https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/students-call-to-block-manchester-gandhi-statue-because-hes-racist-a4262711.html The campaign leader banned the clap at Manchester Uni a couple of years back so she's a force to be reckoned with it seems. Again, somebody we have to judge in his own time. There is also evidence of shifting behaviour by Gandhi: he held racist views in South Africa whilst trying to ingratiate himself to the ruling whites, however soon become exposed to the injustice of the colonial relationship. You could say that his amalgamation with the ''inferior'' blacks was a lesson in colonial racism and helped structure a more balanced view of the indigenous blacks. He was sadly disillusioned when he found his position as an elite Anglo-Indian counted for little. Edited October 17, 2019 by DieselDaisy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padme Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Well... DUPed! https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/17/dup-boris-johnson-brexit-deal There is a silver lining. Labour is willing to support the deal. But they want people's vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 So what is new in the "great new deal" compared to deals May struck? I know Johnson had to give in on the backstop issue. Any other things that was waived to try to get Britain out by the end of the month? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Corbyn: "From what we know, it seems the prime minister has negotiated an even worse deal than Theresa May’s, which was overwhelmingly rejected. These proposals risk triggering a race to the bottom on rights and protections: putting food safety at risk, cutting environmental standards and workers’ rights, and opening up our NHS to a takeover by US private corporations. This sell out deal won’t bring the country together and should be rejected. The best way to get Brexit sorted is to give the people the final say in a public vote." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padme Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 17 minutes ago, SoulMonster said: So what is new in the "great new deal" compared to deals May struck? I know Johnson had to give in on the backstop issue. Any other things that was waived to try to get Britain out by the end of the month? Johnson and the EU say there is a deal. DUP says there isn't. One big difference is the Irish border, as you said it the backstop. And Ireland playing an important role in the negotiations. Boris number one priority would be to strike a free trade deal with EU before making any deal with the U.S., Australia or Canada. Btw how your border with Sweden works? I'm asking because it could be the solution for the new Irish border policy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 38 minutes ago, Padme said: Johnson and the EU say there is a deal. DUP says there isn't. One big difference is the Irish border, as you said it the backstop. And Ireland playing an important role in the negotiations. Boris number one priority would be to strike a free trade deal with EU before making any deal with the U.S., Australia or Canada. Btw how your border with Sweden works? I'm asking because it could be the solution for the new Irish border policy Norway are part of the Single Market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 This shit don't make no sense, people vote for a thing...without knowing the details of what it is, so now they're thrashing out a deal in secret to enact the thingie that everyone voted for, in secret, so once again, no one knows what it is. When will everyone know, when its done and there's fuck all that can be done about it? What a load of fuckin' bollocks...and people wonder why I reject the news in favour of pornhub Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padme Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, Dazey said: Norway are part of the Single Market. But they are not EU members. That's why I don't know what kind of border policy they have. Somewhere there is a difference between EU members and no members. I don't know what that is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 41 minutes ago, Padme said: But they are not EU members. That's why I don't know what kind of border policy they have. Somewhere there is a difference between EU members and no members. I don't know what that is The point is that as part of the single market Norway accepts free movement of goods, services and labour. This is one of the main things that Brexit aims to stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Norway is part of the EEA via the EFTA which gives her access to the single market. Britain was actually a founding member of the EFTA but we ditched it for the EC - one of the worst mistakes made in my opinion. Acronymed out everyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 REALLY interesting comment from Juncker. "We have concluded a deal. So there is not an argument for delay. It has to be done now." So basically they've sidestepped the Benn Act and it's effectively a binary vote on Saturday for Boris' deal or a no deal exit on October 31st. It's either a supreme stroke of luck or an act of strategic genius. As for which one I'm as yet undecided. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DieselDaisy Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 Bumbling Mr Pickwick seemingly is a political colossus haha. His name will be up there with Pitt, Disraeli and Winston. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Padme Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 24 minutes ago, Dazey said: REALLY interesting comment from Juncker. So basically they've sidestepped the Benn Act and it's effectively a binary vote on Saturday for Boris' deal or a no deal exit on October 31st. It's either a supreme stroke of luck or an act of strategic genius. As for which one I'm as yet undecided. Juncker doesn't get to decide. It seems to be a strategy... Or a brain fart from his part katya adler ✔@BBCkatyaadler Jean Claude Juncker quoted all over UK media as saying - “there will be no extension” BUT this is said a) To help Boris Johnson sell a deal back home in the UK that the EU has no appetite to renegotiate once again .. /1 266 11:02 AM - Oct 17, 2019 Twitter Ads info and privacy 212 people are talking about this katya adler ✔@BBCkatyaadler Replying to @BBCkatyaadler b) Mr Juncker would love the Brexit process to be done and dusted during his presidency which is drawing to a close -as part of his legacy (which has to an extent been blighted by the 2016 Brexit vote) BUT /2 62 11:02 AM - Oct 17, 2019 Twitter Ads info and privacy 36 people are talking about this katya adler ✔@BBCkatyaadler Replying to @BBCkatyaadler Also Jean Claude Juncker does not have legal power to rule out extension. It’s a member state decision. It’s hard to imagine 27 EU countries categorically ruling out an extension while at this summit ... before they know if one might be necessary eg to get this deal passed /3 122 11:03 AM - Oct 17, 2019 Twitter Ads info and privacy 71 people are talking about this katya adler ✔@BBCkatyaadler Replying to @BBCkatyaadler Saying “no extension is necessary” in order to keep up pressure on MPs, encouraging them to focus their minds ahead of vote in Parliament is one thing BUT but after 3 years of Brexit process and two attempts at an EU-UK Brexit deal... /4 46 11:04 AM - Oct 17, 2019 Twitter Ads info and privacy 29 people are talking about this katya adler ✔@BBCkatyaadler Replying to @BBCkatyaadler I can’t imagine Angela Merkel for example turning round + saying “no extra time” even if deal is rejected in HoC, there’s a general election or a referendum on this deal, for example /5 84 11:04 AM - Oct 17, 2019 Twitter Ads info and privacy 36 people are talking about this katya adler ✔@BBCkatyaadler Replying to @BBCkatyaadler A flat no to the idea of an extension at this stage could mean ushering in the no deal Brexit that EU leaders have been so so so keen to avoid. It’s not a move you’d expect from the EU! /6 139 11:05 AM - Oct 17, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulMonster Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 3 hours ago, Padme said: But they are not EU members. That's why I don't know what kind of border policy they have. Somewhere there is a difference between EU members and no members. I don't know what that is We are part of the Single Market through EEA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dazey Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, Padme said: Juncker doesn't get to decide. It seems to be a strategy... Or a brain fart from his part You're forgetting that we also have to request an extension for one to be granted. Who's going to do that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len Cnut Posted October 17, 2019 Share Posted October 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, Dazey said: You're forgetting that we also have to request an extension for one to be granted. Who's going to do that? Send Rolf Harris, everyone loves him! He could do it in cartoon form. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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