Juventino Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, cqleonardo said: and I don't care about that... I LOVE Kiss, maybe even more than GNR but I can't stand Peter Criss, in everything, but he was classic member... Still hate the guy Hate is a strong word for a guy you must have got some enjoyment out of listening to what he helped create, but each to their own. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 11 minutes ago, Modano09 said: 1) I don't disagree with his reasons for leaving. I get it, and good for him. But the way he went about leaving the band was to request a buyout settlement. It doesn't matter why he wanted to be bought out, what matters is that he was bought out. 2) You're putting too much thought into. When Izzy wanted out he wanted out all together. He wanted to wash his hands of GNR all together. Slash and Duff didn't, and they found against and with Axl in court numerous times over the years managing the brand. Now that they're going to get a big pay day for that work, Izzy wants the same pay day, having done none of the work. 3) I don't think there's anything about Izzy's history since 1990 to suggest he'd be all in for a tour this big, and this long. I don't know for a fact he isn't, but it'd be uncharacteristic. Maybe he'd be willing to do it if it was "equal loot" but it's not, and it shouldn't be, so he won't. Holy crap you're still trying 1 - Sure he was bought out. That was then, this is now. Slash and Duff gave up their right to the name, just not to the extent of old school GNR that Izzy did. When they came back, none of it seemed to matter anymore, did it? Therefore, the clean slate is in effect. Izzy deserved the same clean slate. 2 - I'm not putting too much thought. I'm providing facts for a case to have Izzy there. You just don't like that because it doesn't help for the purpose of devil's advocacy. And now this point, being presented by you, is that Slash and Duff deserve it over Izzy because they fought Axl in court for years. So because they fought Axl every step of the way, from giving you what YOU wanted (easy assumption to make with your avatar), they are more deserving than Izzy??!! So because Izzy didn't want to fight, didn't care to fight, even though he wasn't a part of it either, because he didn't want to risk his legal name, he's not as deserving?! That's crazy logic. They wouldn't have had the success they did off the material they did without Izzy and that's just too tough of a point to argue. It conquers a lot of points, really. And hell, Axl was more sympathetic to Izzy in 2006 over the other two, probably because he wasn't trying to stop him from doing what he wanted to do with the GNR name. But suddenly, he's a worse guy just like that?! More crazy logic. 3- Yes there is. Izzy said in an interview he wanted to be a part of it. Marc Canter said he wanted to be a part of it. Maybe the extent wasn't spelled out but once again, It's crazy for anyone to assume they're going to get the same cut of the loot to just show up whenever the hell they want. Izzy isn't that crazy. He deserves his cut of the loot. 75% of appetite, lies, and the illusions material wouldn't have existed without him. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Just now, Billsfan said: Holy crap you're still trying 1 - Sure he was bought out. That was then, this is now. Slash and Duff gave up their right to the name, just not to the extent of old school GNR that Izzy did. When they came back, none of it seemed to matter anymore, did it? Therefore, the clean slate is in effect. Izzy deserved the same clean slate. 2 - I'm not putting too much thought. I'm providing facts for a case to have Izzy there. You just don't like that because it doesn't help for the purpose of devil's advocacy. And now this point, being presented by you, is that Slash and Duff deserve it over Izzy because they fought Axl in court for years. So because they fought Axl every step of the way, from giving you what YOU wanted (easy assumption to make with your avatar), they are more deserving than Izzy??!! So because Izzy didn't want to fight, didn't care to fight, even though he wasn't a part of it either, because he didn't want to risk his legal name, he's not as deserving?! That's crazy logic. They wouldn't have had the success they did off the material they did without Izzy and that's just too tough of a point to argue. It conquers a lot of points, really. And hell, Axl was more sympathetic to Izzy in 2006 over the other two, probably because he wasn't trying to stop him from doing what he wanted to do with the GNR name. But suddenly, he's a worse guy just like that?! More crazy logic. 3- Yes there is. Izzy said in an interview he wanted to be a part of it. Marc Canter said he wanted to be a part of it. Maybe the extent wasn't spelled out but once again, It's crazy for anyone to assume they're going to get the same cut of the loot to just show up whenever the hell they want. Izzy isn't that crazy. He deserves his cut of the loot. 75% of appetite, lies, and the illusions material wouldn't have existed without him. Why should someone that doesn't own something be entitled to as big a share of it's profits as someone who does? Shouldn't Izzy at least have to pay back everything he was given in return for his share of the name over the years if he wants "equal loot" again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhazUp Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 It would be nice if they were there, however I am over being pissed off at a musical band. Life is too short, just take whatever happens for what it is and enjoy it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Modano09 said: Here's a question nobody seems to be able to answer - why should Izzy be able to sell his share in the band, and be paid a large sum of money for it, and then down the line, be entitled to a large sum of money as if he still owns it? Nobody can answer that because your scenario didn't - or isn't - happening. So there is no answer. Your scenario is a false one Izzy isn't asking to be paid more money now (this tour) for the shares he sold back then. The issue is how much should Izzy be paid to show up and WORK for GnR in 2017. This has nothing to do with Izzy selling his shares. Zero. Zilch. The issue is how much to pay Izzy to come work for GnR in 2017. Did he want the same amount Axl is making? Probably not. But if Axl and The Beta offered Izzy the same hourly wage that Melissa gets.....is that fair? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 6 minutes ago, Modano09 said: Why should someone that doesn't own something be entitled to as big a share of it's profits as someone who does? Shouldn't Izzy at least have to pay back everything he was given in return for his share of the name over the years if he wants "equal loot" again? Already answered that. This case isn't the "we owned a family business and my brother quit" scenario. If Izzy did that then Axl should pay us back for the years wasted and missed opportunities with Chinese Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SOH Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Classic opening from McBob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 5 minutes ago, WhazUp said: It would be nice if they were there, however I am over being pissed off at a musical band. Life is too short, just take whatever happens for what it is and enjoy it Life is too short. Tell your loved ones you care for them while they're alive. And include them/spend time with them on what they should be included on. That's the point. It isn't all about $$$$ right?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Just now, Apollo said: Nobody can answer that because your scenario didn't - or isn't - happening. So there is no answer. Your scenario is a false one Izzy isn't asking to be paid more money now (this tour) for the shares he sold back then. The issue is how much should Izzy be paid to show up and WORK for GnR in 2017. This has nothing to do with Izzy selling his shares. Zero. Zilch. The issue is how much to pay Izzy to come work for GnR in 2017. Did he want the same amount Axl is making? Probably not. But if Axl and The Beta offered Izzy the same hourly wage that Melissa gets.....is that fair? He said "they" didn't want to split "the loot" "equally". So, sounds like he wanted what Axl was getting. Or at the very least what Slash/Duff are getting and he's not entitled to that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhazUp Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Billsfan said: Life is too short. Tell your loved ones you care for them while they're alive. And include them/spend time with them on what they should be included on. That's the point. It isn't all about $$$$ right?!?! I mean, I don't know ask them lol. I am just a fan, I am not gonna bitch about shit behind the scenes I ain't privy too cause that is more Petty than Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Billsfan said: Already answered that. This case isn't the "we owned a family business and my brother quit" scenario. If Izzy did that then Axl should pay us back for the years wasted and missed opportunities with Chinese And that just about proves you're unrealistic about all of this. He wanted out, he wanted his share bought out so he could be on his way and profit from it, and that's what happened. He can't profit from selling his share and then profit as if he still owns it. So if you think he should, he would at least have to give back everything he received for his percentage over the years to be entitled to what he wants now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Just now, Modano09 said: And that just about proves you're unrealistic about all of this. He wanted out, he wanted his share bought out so he could be on his way and profit from it, and that's what happened. He can't profit from selling his share and then profit as if he still owns it. So if you think he should, he would at least have to give back everything he received for his percentage over the years to be entitled to what he wants now. You can argue all night til you get the last word but, facts are facts. This tour isn't about the past; it's the present and future. But, it's being built as a reunion of the band people came to know and love. Which wouldn't have been shit without Izzy. Izzy helped make those guys what they were and those songs they're playing, wouldn't exist without him. And by your logic, maybe Fortus is entitled to something...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 3 minutes ago, Modano09 said: He said "they" didn't want to split "the loot" "equally". So, sounds like he wanted what Axl was getting. Or at the very least what Slash/Duff are getting and he's not entitled to that either. Let's leave out that assumption. Maybe you are right. Maybe you aren't. None of us know what Izzy asked for. Why didn't you respond to the actual point of my reply to your false question? Your statement/question never happened. So it can't be answered. The money dispute isn't over The shares. Izzy isn't want more money for that. So again - your question makes no sense. The dispute is in relation to what salary Axl and The Beta wanted to pay Izzy to come work for their band in 2017. So for the 13th time. Your question can't be answered. Because your scenario never happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Billsfan said: You can argue all night til you get the last word but, facts are facts. This tour isn't about the past; it's the present and future. But, it's being built as a reunion of the band people came to know and love. Which wouldn't have been shit without Izzy. Izzy helped make those guys what they were and those songs they're playing, wouldn't exist without him. And by your logic, maybe Fortus is entitled to something...? Sure. If it's about the future, Izzy just gives back everything he was paid over the last 25 years in return for his share, he gets his share back, gets his equal loot and we move on from there. Sounds fair to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, Modano09 said: And that just about proves you're unrealistic about all of this. He wanted out, he wanted his share bought out so he could be on his way and profit from it, and that's what happened. He can't profit from selling his share and then profit as if he still owns it. So if you think he should, he would at least have to give back everything he received for his percentage over the years to be entitled to what he wants now. He isn't trying to get more money for the shares he sold. You keep using a false point to try and back to your weird need to downgrade Izzy. The money dispute is for what Axl and The Beta are willing to hire Izzy for TODAY to be their employee. Izzy never said he wants more money for the shares he sold. Not once. You seem to be the only person saying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 2 minutes ago, Apollo said: Let's leave out that assumption. Maybe you are right. Maybe you aren't. None of us know what Izzy asked for. Why didn't you respond to the actual point of my reply to your false question? Your statement/question never happened. So it can't be answered. The money dispute isn't over The shares. Izzy isn't want more money for that. So again - your question makes no sense. The dispute is in relation to what salary Axl and The Beta wanted to pay Izzy to come work for their band in 2017. So for the 13th time. Your question can't be answered. Because your scenario never happened. Izzy himself said they didn't want to split the loot equally, which suggests he thinks he should be paid the same as Axl/Slash/Duff or Slash/Duff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Apollo said: He isn't trying to get more money for the shares he sold. You keep using a false point to try and back to your weird need to downgrade Izzy. The money dispute is for what Axl and The Beta are willing to hire Izzy for TODAY to be their employee. Izzy never said he wants more money for the shares he sold. Not once. You seem to be the only person saying that. No. I said if he wants equal money to Slash/Axl/Duff today, he should have to pay back what he received for being bought out in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom-Ass Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 4 minutes ago, Modano09 said: Sure. If it's about the future, Izzy just gives back everything he was paid over the last 25 years in return for his share, he gets his share back, gets his equal loot and we move on from there. Sounds fair to me. Not even remotely close. You are just trying too hard at this point. Izzy should give something back that he never had, that he got away from, to justify something nonexistent. Ok Just now, Tom-Ass said: Sorry I just think Izzy should be a part of this. Apparently others don't and they're right and I'm wrong apparently so... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apollo Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 1 minute ago, Modano09 said: Sure. If it's about the future, Izzy just gives back everything he was paid over the last 25 years in return for his share, he gets his share back, gets his equal loot and we move on from there. Sounds fair to me. Wow. @Billsfan this guy clearly has some weird agenda. He clearly doesn't get it, isn't listening to the "facts" and is just going to keep arguing some weird scenario that HE made up. There is literally one person in the world who keeps arguing that the sold shares are relevant today. One person. Not Izzy. Not Axl. Not The Beta. Again - not Izzy. Actually, I heard that Axl wouldn't let Izzy come back unless Izzy agreed to shave his head and get Chinese Democracy and The Beta's picture tattooed on his forhead. (See Modona - I can make stuff up too!!!!). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Just now, Billsfan said: Not even remotely close. You are just trying too hard at this point. Izzy should give something back that he never had, that he got away from, to justify something nonexistent. Ok He sold his shares! Slash and Duff didn't! That, so simply, is why he has no claim to get an equal amount to them. And you're whole argument is that it should all be ignored and Izzy should be able to profit from selling and profiting from owning at the same time, and that's just totally reasonable, because you want him in the band. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Modano09 Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Just now, Apollo said: Wow. @Billsfan this guy clearly has some weird agenda. He clearly doesn't get it, isn't listening to the "facts" and is just going to keep arguing some weird scenario that HE made up. There is literally one person in the world who keeps arguing that the sold shares are relevant today. One person. Not Izzy. Not Axl. Not The Beta. Again - not Izzy. Actually, I heard that Axl wouldn't let Izzy come back unless Izzy agreed to shave his head and get Chinese Democracy and The Beta's picture tattooed on his forhead. (See Modona - I can make stuff up too!!!!). How is it not relevant today? He sold his shares!!!!!! Which means he's not as entitled to GNR profits going forwards as the people who DIDN'T SELL THEIR SHARES!! This is so ridiculous. He was paid out. He made a lot of money selling his ownership rights back to the band. Why should he be able to profit from selling it and then profiting like he owns it at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billsfan Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Just now, Apollo said: Wow. @Billsfan this guy clearly has some weird agenda. He clearly doesn't get it, isn't listening to the "facts" and is just going to keep arguing some weird scenario that HE made up. There is literally one person in the world who keeps arguing that the sold shares are relevant today. One person. Not Izzy. Not Axl. Not The Beta. Again - not Izzy. Actually, I heard that Axl wouldn't let Izzy come back unless Izzy agreed to shave his head and get Chinese Democracy and The Beta's picture tattooed on his forhead. (See Modona - I can make stuff up too!!!!). Well, it's 2017. People like arguing that the sky is Green on here, idk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
double talkin jive mfkr Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 as the song goes WHY DON"T YOU JUST FUCK OFF!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucky girl Posted July 21, 2017 Share Posted July 21, 2017 Does Axl using auto tune? His voices is perfect !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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