Apollo Show - Izzy & Steven Not Playing - Argue About It HERE

[Modano09]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan said:

Well, it's 2017. People like arguing that the sky is Green on here, idk

You're argument would be along the lines of "I like green. I'd like the sky to be green. The sky SHOULD be green. It's bullshit the sky isn't green! The sky should rightfully be green because I want it to be!"

[Apollo]

3 minutes ago, Billsfan said:

Well, it's 2017. People like arguing that the sky is Green on here, idk

I can debate  just about anything. 

But I can't have a rational conversation with somebody who is literally making up their main point. 

At this point I guess I will just let him have his victory.

Molando - yes. You win, bruh. Izzy shouldn't get paid more for the shares he sold 20 years ago. Of course, Izzy NEVER asked to get paid more for them. Oddly, that fact isn't relevant to you for some reason.  

So you win your pretend scenario. Congrats?

 

[double talkin jive mfkr]

this is better than anything from NITL 

 

[FuriousStyles]

No Izzy and Steven.....

 

 

[Billsfan]

1 hour ago, Apollo said:

I can debate  just about anything. 

But I can't have a rational conversation with somebody who is literally making up their main point. 

At this point I guess I will just let him have his victory.

Molando - yes. You win, bruh. Izzy shouldn't get paid more for the shares he sold 20 years ago. Of course, Izzy NEVER asked to get paid more for them. Oddly, that fact isn't relevant to you for some reason.  

So you win your pretend scenario. Congrats?

 

Nah, it's a Mike Modano Reference. And not one of the better attempts I've read.

On the other hand, I'm talking to you, who I legit don't like. My, how the tables have turned

[Billsfan]

1 hour ago, Modano09 said:

You're argument would be along the lines of "I like green. I'd like the sky to be green. The sky SHOULD be green. It's bullshit the sky isn't green! The sky should rightfully be green because I want it to be!"

No, the argument is that the sky is blue. I see it as blue, yet you want to argue that it's green. I mean, it's one thing when you have a case. But you have nothing. The best you have, is to present some sort of case, that GNR were united, by fighting each other brutally with their wallets in court, and they were somehow more united than those who didn't step up for some satirical case. And the problem is, the argument is flawed. I mean, you're justifying alleged dollars to names, you have no clue about. And you knew 6 psts ago you had nothing, so you keep tring to spin something that has legs that couldn't grow a nail.

Keep going. Your turn, bro

[Billsfan]

5 minutes ago, FuriousStyles said:

No Izzy and Steven.....

 

 

We all know that post is an attempt for cheap likes.

It's not about that, it's the reasons as to why. If I'm making 3 million a show, and I can drp down to 2.85 for the sake of giving you what's coming to you, it' a fair trade. Now to be fair, those aren't exact numbers. Establishing that because, someone who's jus pro-GNR can't do anything wrong won't like that. Cuz they're a snowflake.

Point is, they're making great cash regardless. And they sound fine. It feels more right if Izzy Is there, regardless of Richie Rich Fortus.. The drummer sucks regardless and Steven sounds great, doesn't care what he gets paid.

That's reality. Hard to justify volunteers for average workers

[FuriousStyles]

4 minutes ago, Billsfan said:

We all know that post is an attempt for cheap likes.

It's not about that, it's the reasons as to why. If I'm making 3 million a show, and I can drp down to 2.85 for the sake of giving you what's coming to you, it' a fair trade. Now to be fair, those aren't exact numbers. Establishing that because, someone who's jus pro-GNR can't do anything wrong won't like that. Cuz they're a snowflake.

Point is, they're making great cash regardless. And they sound fine. It feels more right if Izzy Is there, regardless of Richie Rich Fortus.. The drummer sucks regardless and Steven sounds great, doesn't care what he gets paid.

That's reality. Hard to justify volunteers for average workers

I believe you misunderstood me

It's a travesty of sorts that S/D/A were unwilling to step back and let the album they created together with Izzy and Steven be applauded and celebrated as it should be...with the five of them together

[Subtle Signs]

Isn't Adler tight with Trunk? On the 30th anniversary of AFD and the man is so happy he seems like he'd play for free (I have no idea what he asks for ,it could be a lot but I doubt that's the case) Let the man do a song. 

[t-p-d-a]

I Really enjoyed the show.

[PsychoKiss344]

2 hours ago, double talkin jive mfkr said:

this is better than anything from NITL 

 

Stop lol.

This sounds like my buddies band playing at the campus bar.

[Axl_morris]

3 hours ago, Apollo said:

Please share the link that showed Izzy saying he wanted the same pay as Axl. Thanks in advance. 

******

A show to celebrate an album's anniversary should have all the members there. I realize Axl and TB don't do things the rational or common sense way. But this no-brainer. Izzy and Adler have to be there in some capacity. 

Melissa is going to be in on the 30th anniversary special concert....but not Izzy? That's just laughable. 

Surely those two band members, who helped create Appetite, have been invited to the celebration. 

Show me the link where it says the Apollo show was a 30th anniversary show? There is nothing to suggest that it was. No hashtags on the poster..etc

 

Time Square add looks a separate promo from Sirius concert.

[PsychoKiss344]

Just now, Axl_morris said:

Show me the link where it says the Apollo show was a 30th anniversary show? There is nothing to suggest that it was. No hashtags on the poster..etc

 

Time Square add looks a separate promo from Sirius concert.

Yup...people on here hype everything up.

This show was to promote the Sirius radio.

[scooby845]

8 hours ago, Tom2112 said:

Bull, he proved it in 01, 06 and all previous cd era tours worldwide (America being the only place that wasn't as sold on it) that people buy tickets to see Axl Rose with or without other members. 

Also, 'what if, what if'. It is a fact that Axl is the overall boss. It is in print and in loads of video interviews that Axl doesn't consider Izzy dependable. It's also well known that while he probably has fond memories of Steven that up until a few years ago he considered him to be someone to stay clear of because the baggage he brought. I have no doubt (no real evidence granted) that, the few songs he got to play was down to Slash and Duff making it happen. 

If they all wanted to play but couldn't agree on money, then the thing shouldn't happen in the first place. Why not just get together play a free show if you want to celebrate the album, or would they just want to make a few more quid? I'd prefer them to do it and actually want to be in stage with each other, and if that's not the case then let the current band take care of the anniversary.

Bull.... You cannot base your arguments on possibilities and has-beens... 01 was merely 7 years after GnR breakdown. 06 was the "Chinese Democracy Starts Now" era type of thing..

After this reunion Axl cannot do anything other than that. He toured the same material for 15 years. You cannot go back and forth with peoples minds and emotions. Reunion-no reunion. That's not how it goes.

Technically yes, he is the boss. But to what... GnR is brand I admit that. But even Ashba or others have as much integrity not to come back if Axl decides to give them a call.

Is he gonna start a new band..yeah right..good luck with that..

[RONIN]

5 hours ago, Modano09 said:

1) I don't disagree with his reasons for leaving. I get it, and good for him. But the way he went about leaving the band was to request a buyout settlement. It doesn't matter why he wanted to be bought out, what matters is that he was bought out. 

2) You're putting too much thought into. When Izzy wanted out he wanted out all together. He wanted to wash his hands of GNR all together. Slash and Duff didn't, and they found against and with Axl in court numerous times over the years managing the brand. Now that they're going to get a big pay day for that work, Izzy wants the same pay day, having done none of the work. 

 

 

You seem to be very cut and dry about the legalities of Izzy's split. He sold his share, so he's entitled to jack. Fine.

Here's what you're missing - Izzy probably had no choice but to sell off his stake when he decided to quit the band. At that point, from what I understand, when a partner decides to quit or is fired, they are legally obligated/forced to sell their stake to the other partners who essentially will buy them out at for an agreed upon amount. This is what happened to Steven and Izzy. I imagine if they could have in any way retained their stake in GnR, they would have for obvious financial reasons.

Why didn't this happen to Duff and Slash? Because they didn't leave the original partnership. Axl did. Clearly he has legally amended the original partnership agreement in some way that blocked the other partners from buying him out - hence, the "new guns" contract which Slash and Duff were given to sign and which they ultimately refused to. Duff and Slash in essence lucked out into retaining their shares because Axl quit the original partnership and rendered it inert.

So when we look at hard facts, yes, Izzy and Steven forfeited their stake and sold it. Therefore, technically they aren't entitled to anything but the wages of hired help. When we look at this as decent human beings (which I'm assuming you are), it seems obvious that Izzy was not afforded the same luxury of retaining his stake in the band as the others. When you look at this as a fan and as a logical person - you would think -

"These guys are millionaires who are making 3 mil + / show - can't they carve out a decent sum to get Izzy on board - just for the fans? Is that a lot to ask for a reunion tour? Hey if they really want to bury the hatchet, no need to even offer to sell Izzy his stake in the band back, just write a new contract so that they can split the revenue equally like partners again. It would be a new beginning for the band after years of legal and ego motivated squabbling." Besides, it could only have helped their cause from a marketing, publicity and monetary standpoint.

The rumor from GnR "insiders" is that Izzy was offered an insulting sum of money on par with the hired help - which as a co-founder of the band, he naturally said fuck off to. Whether this rumor is true or not, who knows. Izzy doesn't seem to have diva tendencies so I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt with this whole thing compared to the redhead and sellouts like Duff and Slash.

 “This is right before I left - demoting me to some lower position. They were gonna cut my percentage of royalties down. I was like ‘Fuck you! I’ve been there from day one, why should I do that? Fuck you, I’ll go play the Whiskey’. That’s what happened. It was insane.”

http://teamrock.com/feature/2016-11-07/izzy-stradlin-in-too-deep

Seems pretty clear that Axl and Slash were legally maneuvering Izzy to hired help prior to his quitting. That was the final straw before he decided to quit. Who can blame the guy?  He was going to be legally demoted whether he liked it or not and Axl was even going as far as releasing press releases to MTV stating that Dave Navarro was being considered as a replacement for Izzy....unless he gave in and signed the contract. This is what these clowns were trying to do to the co-founder and one of the main songwriters of the band. No wonder he told them to fuck off. 

After all that, he's expected to come back hat in hand and take a pittance to play onstage and legitimize this "reunion" so the other three greedy sellouts can make even more cash playing his songs? Does that make any sense?

Given Axl, Duff, and Slash's legal position and power - I expected them to do this. They fucked their friend over to make a ton of money. But the level of greed of these guys....after all these years, and the millions they made...I was just taken aback by that. A lot of fans were. Especially after the years of bullshit from Duff and Slash about how they would never come back without Izzy and that he was vitally important to the sound of the band, yada yada. They fed fans that shit for 20+ years.

I understand why things played out the way they did, but I don't like it. Just my 2 cents. I certainly can't blame Izzy for doing what he felt he had to do. 

As a fan of the band and just seeing all these rockstars dropping off like flies, you would think these guys could put their greed aside and make the fans happy for a single night with an actual legitimate reunion. But no, that was too much to ask. 

 

 

Quote

3) I don't think there's anything about Izzy's history since 1990 to suggest he'd be all in for a tour this big, and this long. I don't know for a fact he isn't, but it'd be uncharacteristic. Maybe he'd be willing to do it if it was "equal loot" but it's not, and it shouldn't be, so he won't.

Re: touring

 

Edited July 21, 2017 by RONIN

[Pishy]

@AncientEvil80 Wanted to post pics from show but don't know how , lol! It was pretty good. However, Adler and Izzy were sorely missed. 

[Bono]

1 hour ago, Axl_morris said:

Show me the link where it says the Apollo show was a 30th anniversary show? There is nothing to suggest that it was. No hashtags on the poster..etc

 

Time Square add looks a separate promo from Sirius concert.

You have to be incredibly naive to think they didn't know exactly what they were doing by having the Apollo show on this day and then litter Times Square with AFD 30th Anniversary billboards. They knew exactly what they were doing. They absolutely promoted something they never intended to do or give. You may say technically they didn't promote this show as an AFD anniversary show but that's exactly how they promoted it and we all know it. 

 

1 hour ago, PsychoKiss344 said:

Yup...people on here hype everything up.

This show was to promote the Sirius radio.

haha Ummmm.... GnR hype their own shit up and never deliver. They hype shit they have no intentions of delivering. How can some of you be so attached to GnR's balls that you don't see this. It's the same shit as to why Axl, Slash and Duff don't do interviews. They know if they do the questions will lead to a new album and if they get asked that they either have to lie or tell the truth that they have zero intentions of making new music. So they promote this tour with the illusion that maybe they will create new music. Just like this Apollo show. It was very obviously promoted under illusion it would be to celebrate the 30th anniversary of AFD. Given the billboards in Times Square and the date of the show it's beyond fucking obvious what they were promoting(with zero intention of delivering). To say it wasn't is to be the most naive person in the world. That or the biggest GnR ass kiss and apologist in the world. 

[Axl_morris]

25 minutes ago, Bono said:

You have to be incredibly naive to think they didn't know exactly what they were doing by having the Apollo show on this day and then litter Times Square with AFD 30th Anniversary billboards. They knew exactly what they were doing. They absolutely promoted something they never intended to do or give. You may say technically they didn't promote this show as an AFD anniversary show but that's exactly how they promoted it and we all know it. 

 

haha Ummmm.... GnR hype their own shit up and never deliver. They hype shit they have no intentions of delivering. How can some of you be so attached to GnR's balls that you don't see this. It's the same shit as to why Axl, Slash and Duff don't do interviews. They know if they do the questions will lead to a new album and if they get asked that they either have to lie or tell the truth that they have zero intentions of making new music. So they promote this tour with the illusion that maybe they will create new music. Just like this Apollo show. It was very obviously promoted under illusion it would be to celebrate the 30th anniversary of AFD. Given the billboards in Times Square and the date of the show it's beyond fucking obvious what they were promoting(with zero intention of delivering). To say it wasn't is to be the most naive person in the world. That or the biggest GnR ass kiss and apologist in the world. 

In what way did they not celebrate, didn't they play 8 or 9 songs from appetite? Just because they have done that at other shows doesn't give it any less credit. 

The celebrated the anniversary as best they could. Could you imagine if they brought Izzy and Steven out and the next show in St Louis its back to normal...

[EvanG]

3 hours ago, Axl_morris said:

The celebrated the anniversary as best they could. Could you imagine if they brought Izzy and Steven out and the next show in St Louis its back to normal...

No way, man... if they celebrated it the best they could, they wouldn't have sporty spice and those other people up there, and they wouldn't be playing the same setlist that they've been playing every damn show for over a year now.

[Axl_morris]

7 minutes ago, EvanG said:

No way, man... if they celebrated it the best they could, they wouldn't have sporty spice and those other people up there, and they wouldn't be playing the same setlist that they've been playing every damn show for over a year now.

 At 3 hours and 15mins+ there is little argument to complain about setlist.

[EvanG]

Just now, Axl_morris said:

 At 3 hours and 15mins+ there is little argument to complain about setlist.

Yes there is, seeing as it was an anniversary they could have played the entire album with all the people involved. But we don't even know what the deal is with Izzy, so I'll give you that. But I'm sure Steven would have been there if they had given him the chance.

[G-Money]

Enjoyed the fact we have a soundboard on songs we didn't have before (with Slash and Duff).

But as far as celebrating Appetite goes, that show was absolutely pathetic.

[KURT19]

Nothing says #Appetite30th like 'Whole Lotta Rosie'

Nothing says #Appetite30th like 'Black Hole Sun'

Nothing says #Appetite30th like 'The Seeker'

Nothing says #Appetite30th like @themelisareese

Nothing says #Appetite30th like New York City

Nothing says #Appetite30th like SiriusXM

Nothing says #Appetite30th like The Apollo

Nothing says #Appetite30th like Richard Fortus' boob

I say #FuckYouAxlRose

#Loot

I'm not surprised but I am insulted.

[Dar97]

I imagine they didn't invite Steven because of the incident that happened last time, he said he felt really hurt when he saw Frank playing his songs and he got angry and started slagging Frank off

[2414225]

1 hour ago, Dar97 said:

I imagine they didn't invite Steven because of the incident that happened last time, he said he felt really hurt when he saw Frank playing his songs and he got angry and started slagging Frank off

Steven is happy when he can just play 2 songs. As said before there is no excuse for not inviting him, Matt, etc. And as said many times before by other people: Axl is living in his own world.