The Religion/Spirituality Thread

[Sosso]

3 minutes ago, soon said:

Anti-semitism is recorded in the Old Testament. Enslavement in Egypt. Exile to Babylon, all that. Thousands of years before Christ.

Anti-semitism is present in the narrative that Christ was born as a jewish person under occupation by Rome. Then Rome executed the Christ.

 

I always thought that the Jews were made guilty for killing Jesus? 

Edited December 9, 2018 by Sosso

[soon]

3 minutes ago, Sosso said:

I always thought that the Jews were made guilty of killing Jesus? 

They weren't. Rome executed Christ. Also the people central in the pronouncement of Christianity were Jewish people. The NT is so positive about Jewish identity that theres a book called "Jude" written by a person named Jude who is likely Christs' brother.

[Sosso]

1 minute ago, soon said:

They weren't. Rome executed Christ. Also the people central in the pronouncement of Christianity were Jewish people. The NT is so positive about Jewish identity that theres a book called "Jude" written by a person named Jude who is likely Christs' brother.

I know that Rome executed Christ, but the Jews have played a prominent role in his trial. Well, at least according to some sources. Have you read Ben Hur? 

[soon]

Just now, Sosso said:

I know that Rome executed Christ, but the Jews have played a prominent role in his trial. Well, at least according to some sources. Have you read Ben Hur? 

The occupied Jewish people did not dictate anything to Rome. Rome just wanted to end an upheaval to maintain control in the region. So Rome executed Christ.

[Sosso]

2 minutes ago, soon said:

The occupied Jewish people did not dictate anything to Rome. Rome just wanted to end an upheaval to maintain control in the region. So Rome executed Christ.

Thanks for he clarification, then. 

[DieselDaisy]

2 hours ago, Len Cnut said:

Even in Europe prior to that, a lot of people think it just appeared because of Nazis but thats kinda why the German people swallowed so much of it so readily, cuz it was kinda already there to a point.

I remember reading this essay thing by Wagner saying that the best thing that the Jew could do for the human race is to go out to the town square and set himself on fire.  

So...what other fucked up nazis are there?   

Das Judenthum in der Musik? It may just be the most controversial document in music history and has fouled up Wagner's reputation ever since. 

[arnold layne]

@DieselDaisy this may be the alcohol talking but you're one of my favorite posters. 

Your knowledge in history knows no boundaries and I sincerely admire that. 

Thanks.

[DieselDaisy]

3 hours ago, arnold layne said:

Somebody enlighten me.

Why do people hate Jews again? Is it because they don't believe Jesus was the Messiah? If so why not hate Atheists as well?

The Nazis blamed the Jews for everything. They even blamed other groups and simply called them ''Jews'' haha. They blamed the Jews for bourgeois-capitalism and democracy (Britain and America were ''ran by Jews'') yet paradoxically blamed the Jews for communism - ''Jewry'' and ''Bolshevism'' were sort of the same thing for Hitler! The Nazis conveniently built upon preexisting Christian notions of Jews, that they were Christ slayers, medieval ignorance, Luther's invective, etc. It was convenient to build Nazi prejudices on preexisting European prejudices, but Nazi antisemitism differs in that it is racial antisemitism. Earlier examples of antisemitism tended to be satisfied by Christian conversion whereas ''christianised Jews'' were just as much a target as practicing Jews for the National Socialists.

Jews were blamed for the defeat in World War One and subsequent economic trauma. There was the ''stabbed in the back'' theory, that the Jews betrayed Germany by signing the November 1918 Armistice and implementing the Weimer Republic, rather than Germany being physically defeated in the field. The fact that the German armies seemingly marched home supports this theory (In reality the German army had collapsed upon the western front during the spring offensives of 1918, whilst Germany was starving due to the Royal Navy's blockade). This was a theory that prevailed, not just among the National Socialists but a series of other right-wing groupings and even among the Prussian conservative classes, that the Germans had been betrayed by Jews (that many Jews fought for Germany, some being awarded Iron Crosses, is neither here nor there...).

Then there is Nazi racial theory. I have formed the opinion that Nazism was less a revolution, more a desire to perform a surgical procedure. The Nazis believed Germans were a ''Herrenvolk'', a society made up of pure ''uncontaminated'' Aryans (at its most wishy-washy level, in the esoteric SS, it is a society of agrarian-warriors descending from the Himalayas). The Nazis believed that this Übermenschen had been contaminated by Untermensch: Jews, Slavs, Bolsheviks, general degenerates such as the deformed, handicapped - Nazis had this term, ''useless eaters'' meaning they used up the resources of the Volk. Again the Nazis sort of chuck all these categories into one.

Even alcoholics were blamed on ''defective genes''!

If I could summarize National Socialistic ideology into one sentence, it would be (and this is just my opinion) the bestowal of one's purified Aryan blood (the Nazis were obsessed with blood) for future generations, leaving a purified Volk. 

Warfare was a prerequisite in this. As part of ''survival of the fittest'' through which one adapts and ''improves'' (as a hunter killer) genetically for survival, a war against Jews and Bolsheviks in the east was a prerequisite for aggrandizing the Herrenvolk. It was a sort of Hegelian/Social Darwinist struggle by which only the strongest (race) would survive.

The Nazis ultimately planned to conquer the east (approximately to the Caucasus) creating Lebensraum (living space) to colonize with pure-bred Aryans. They'd use up the slavs as slave labour (probably the Jews would have been liquidated by this stage?). They'd create a sort of agrarian aristocracy, an aristocracy of blood, not class.

Edited December 10, 2018 by DieselDaisy

[DieselDaisy]

If some of the above sounds convoluted you have to bear in mind that, a/ the Nazis were a bit thick and rather confused in their own theories and prejudices, and b/ they didn't care that (their theories and prejudices) didn't make much sense. 

[SoulMonster]

11 hours ago, arnold layne said:

Somebody enlighten me.

Why do people hate Jews again? Is it because they don't believe Jesus was the Messiah? If so why not hate Atheists as well?

A big reason why Jews have suffered so much is that it is easy to put the blame on insular groups who stick to themselves and refuse to assimilate. So whenever a scapegoat was needed it was easy to blame the Jews. The Nazis exploited this phenomenon when they blamed Jews for so much of their situation, by rallying the German people against a common enemy. But we also see it with other minority groups who tend to stick to themselves and abjectly reject the rules or traditions of the majority, like the Yazidi in Iraq.

In short, we humans aren't too fond of people who behave differently and we love ganging up on others.

[Len Cnut]

9 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

A big reason why Jews have suffered so much is that it is easy to put the blame on insular groups who stick to themselves and refuse to assimilate. So whenever a scapegoat was needed it was easy to blame the Jews. The Nazis exploited this phenomenon when they blamed Jews for so much of their situation, by rallying the German people against a common enemy. But we also see it with other minority groups who tend to stick to themselves and abjectly reject the rules or traditions of the majority, like the Yazidi in Iraq.

In short, we humans aren't too fond of people who behave differently and we love ganging up on others.

I think its really important that people are educated about the nature of anti-semitism and the length and breadth of it, its not limited to just nazis (not that i'm saying that you're saying it was)  I mean from the days of the old testament, to the spanish inquisition and russias history with it, its a really complex thing and the motives evolve.  Even todays fuckin' illumanati bullshit, freemason bullshit, that shit is like distorted fuckin' anti semetic theory of days gone by, slightly altered. 

[SoulMonster]

Quote

Amish Give Up

"This is bullshit," Elders Say

LANCASTER, PA—After centuries of enduring harsh, spare living conditions and voluntarily shunning modern amenities such as microwave ovens and red clothing, Amish leaders announced Monday that Amish across the U.S. will abandon their traditional ways and adapt to modern American life.

“Fuck that,” said Amish Father Ezekiel Schmid at a Lancaster press conference. “This is pure bullshit.”

Schmid recounted the hard Amish life, in which many long hours are spent toiling under the hot sun in heavy black clothing without any refrigerated drinks or gas-powered farm machines. He spoke of the arduous task of raising barns by hand from dawn until dusk, and of laboriously churning his own butter without electrical power.

“I can’t believe we were such suckers,” Schmid said. “I feel like a fool.”

Schmid added that he will shave off his “ridiculous” Pennsylvania Dutch-style beard with no mustache, a look he says went out of fashion in “about 1820.”

“Why didn’t anyone ever tell me how stupid I looked?” he said.

According to Schmid, the Amish look forward to a wide variety of “alternative lifestyle” opportunities that now await them.

“I am indeed looking forward to wearing clothing that is a color other than black,” said Josephat Kreugger, a prominent Kruegger, an Amish counsel member. “I will try on some dark gray suits, perhaps even medium gray. I am also considering buying a charcoal-colored hat.”

Kreugger also expressed a desire to travel “twice the speed of horse.”

Many social changes await the Amish, as well.

“When I punish my son for not saying his prayers,” Mary Wittgenstein said, “I normally use a wooden switch taken from a tree. But now, think of the modern child-beating weapons that will be available to me in the outside world. Perhaps there are whips made especially for use on disobedient children, or muskets.”

Many Amish are looking forward to getting jobs in the real world. Amish farmer Abraham Verveert said he has greatly entertained other Amish people at church meetings with his rousing scripture readings, and hopes to capitalize on that talent by taking his Bible-reading on the road.

“I have readings scheduled at nightclubs and ballrooms across the country, and judging by the gleeful reaction of my Amish brethren, I believe I will find great success entertaining outsiders with my lively readings,” Verveert said. “This week, I will be reading a particularly delightful passage from Corinthians at the Sunrise Motor Inn in Kew Gardens, NY. You will surely want to be present.”

One Amish couple, Jacob and Sarah Neamer, plan to move to an apartment in a major city and adopt a modern lifestyle, but will continue to make a living the only way they know how.

“We will charge admission for people to enter our home and observe our lifestyle,” Sarah said. “For $12.50, or $10 with coupon, you can watch us as we cook meals and watch the television.”

One Amish entrepreneur, Lucas Hagen, is looking forward to taking full advantage of modern technology.

“I was often ostracized in the Amish community for my blasphemous ideas about loosening Amish traditions,” he said. “Now that I am free to explore life on the outside, I plan to buy a cable TV station and create an Amish Porn Channel.”

If successful, Hagen’s Amish Porn Channel will feature programs in which women take off their bonnets and expose their hair.

Amish Father Schmid is looking forward to being a policeman. “I want to rid the world of illegal butter churning,” he said somberly. “It is costing the government millions every year.”

Source: https://local.theonion.com/amish-give-up-1819563928

[SoulMonster]

58 minutes ago, Len Cnut said:

I think its really important that people are educated about the nature of anti-semitism and the length and breadth of it, its not limited to just nazis (not that i'm saying that you're saying it was)  I mean from the days of the old testament, to the spanish inquisition and russias history with it, its a really complex thing and the motives evolve.  Even todays fuckin' illumanati bullshit, freemason bullshit, that shit is like distorted fuckin' anti semetic theory of days gone by, slightly altered. 

Sure, but I have become somewhat cynical to the whole thing. I thought we had grown up a bit more. Learnt from history. Anti-semitism is a big part of our school's curriculum. But here in Norway anti-semitism is still growing. Kids are using "Jew" as an insult, rocks are hurled at Synagoges, people are afraid to say they are Jewish, etc. Granted, some of this is due to influx of anti-semitic Muslims, and some is due to the ongoing Israeli-Arab conflict, but it is not entirely explained by that.

Personally, I would be in favor of stricter punishment for hate crimes. I simply don't think there is much more to gain from talking more about this at school. Those who attack Jews today know they follow a Millenia-old, sad tradition.

[DieselDaisy]

54 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

A big reason why Jews have suffered so much is that it is easy to put the blame on insular groups who stick to themselves and refuse to assimilate. So whenever a scapegoat was needed it was easy to blame the Jews. The Nazis exploited this phenomenon when they blamed Jews for so much of their situation, by rallying the German people against a common enemy. But we also see it with other minority groups who tend to stick to themselves and abjectly reject the rules or traditions of the majority, like the Yazidi in Iraq.

In short, we humans aren't too fond of people who behave differently and we love ganging up on others.

This is true, and it is especially so for preceding forms of non-racial religious antisemitism, but racially defined Nazi antisemitism targeted acculturated-assimilated Jews also, ''Juden-Christens''. Three-quarters (racially Jewish) grand-parentage (or less in certain circumstances) would designate one a ''Jew'' according to the Nuremberg Laws. Many of Germany's 600,000 Jews were highly Germanized - 100,000 had fought for the Kaiser, some obtaining commissions and Iron Crosses. Nazi propaganda highlights how Jews had successfully appropriated the outward forms of western civilization, attired themselves in western clothing and manners, taking up the levers of office, banking, government whilst subverting the Volk through Blutschande. 

A good example of this, the ''civilized Jew'', is the film Die Rothschilds from 1940, which is also hilarious for demonstrating Germany's views on England incidentally. 

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

This is true, and it is especially so for preceding forms of non-racial religious antisemitism, but racially defined Nazi antisemitism targeted acculturated-assimilated Jews also, ''Juden-Christens''. Three-quarters (racially Jewish) grand-parentage (or less in certain circumstances) would designate one a ''Jew'' according to the Nuremberg Laws. Many of Germany's 600,000 Jews were highly Germanized - 100,000 had fought for the Kaiser, some obtaining commissions and Iron Crosses. Nazi propaganda highlights how Jews had successfully appropriated the outward forms of western civilization, attired themselves in western clothing and manners, taking up the levers of office, banking, government whilst subverting the Volk through Blutschande. 

A good example of this, the ''civilized Jew'', is the film Die Rothschilds from 1940, which is also hilarious for demonstrating Germany's views on England incidentally. 

What an absolutely ugly ideology that was. I mean, we humans are guilty of many horrible things, but the racial theories of the Nazists and what it made them do - absolutely inhuman things - really comes high up on the list of modern time atrocities. And of course these inhumanities wasn't only afflicted on Jews, the Nazis would kill off anyone who they felt were weak or a threat. The mentally disabled, the handicapped, Slavs, dissidents, etc. 

I don't really agree with the overall idea that humans can be evil (or good). I mean, some of us can do absolutely gruesome things but on an individual level I think almost all of us do have some good sides. We are not purely this or that. With maybe a few exceptions (no, I don't think Jesus was an exception). We are complex things with capability for both good and bad. But Nazism as an organization really extracted and distilled the worst aspects of humanity into this non-sentient machine that became bigger than the human parts. 

[DieselDaisy]

21 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

What an absolutely ugly ideology that was. I mean, we humans are guilty of many horrible things, but the racial theories of the Nazists and what it made them do - absolutely inhuman things - really comes high up on the list of modern time atrocities. And of course these inhumanities wasn't only afflicted on Jews, the Nazis would kill off anyone who they felt were weak or a threat. The mentally disabled, the handicapped, Slavs, dissidents, etc. 

I don't really agree with the overall idea that humans can be evil (or good). I mean, some of us can do absolutely gruesome things but on an individual level I think almost all of us do have some good sides. We are not purely this or that. With maybe a few exceptions (no, I don't think Jesus was an exception). We are complex things with capability for both good and bad. But Nazism as an organization really extracted and distilled the worst aspects of humanity into this non-sentient machine that became bigger than the human parts. 

It did have its good points, the Third Reich,

 

[EvanG]

I can't say that I love Jesus, that would be a hollow claim. He did make some observations, and I'm quoting them today. "Judge not, lest ye be judged", what a bullshit thing to say. So I'll say this... you people have been on here again all weekend? You know, there are other things to do on the weekend, right?

Edited December 10, 2018 by EvanG

[SoulMonster]

9 minutes ago, EvanG said:

I can't say that I love Jesus, that would be a hollow claim. He did make some observations, and I'm quoting them today. "Judge not, lest ye be judged", what a bullshit thing to say. So I'll say this... you people have been on here again all weekend? You know, there are other things to do on the weekend, right?

What? You mother won't allow you to be on Internet in your weekends?

[EvanG]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

What? You mother won't allow you to be on Internet in your weekends?

You've been using that mommy joke too much lately, besides... that's soooo 90's.

[EvanG]

3 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Maybe I should stop coming here though. I've been considering that for a while now.

Nah, man... I was just joking... well, sorta. I guess some people here really have a forum addiction. But whatever.

You're one of the good ones, I'd hate to see you go.

[SoulMonster]

Yeah, not having Internet with you 24/7 is what is really 90s 

[EvanG]

Well, I am a 90's kid. Often when I go out I leave my phone at home, or when I take it with me I have it off most of the time. Friends look at me as if I'm from another planet for not having my phone with me, it's unheard of nowadays, but I look at them the same way... they can't go 5 minutes without looking at their phone and to me that is crazy.

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, EvanG said:

Well, I am a 90's kid. Often when I go out I leave my phone at home, or when I take it with me I have it off most of the time. Friends look at me as if I'm from another planet for not having my phone with me, it's unheard of nowadays, but I look at them the same way... they can't go 5 minutes without looking at their phone and to me that is crazy.

I am 70s kid, and if I could I would somehow fuse my phone to my body 

[Lio]

1 minute ago, Oldest Goat said:

Fuck you're old.

Are you gonna get biotic implants eventually? I won't. Don't love you all that much.

Not old

We're fans of a rock band that reached their peak like 30 years ago. When I first got here, I was amazed at how many young people were here

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, Oldest Goat said:

Fuck you're old.

Are you gonna get biotic implants eventually? I won't. Don't love you all that much.

Biotic implants? Never heard of them.