Greta Thunberg's Groupie

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I mean Graeme there has been to Mexico and I don't believe for one second he went via rowing boat, whilst Soul has more air miles than Prince Harry. I bet they are not willing to forgo air travel in accordance with their beliefs. Same for all these champagne globe trotting celebs, vacuous actors and royals, who jet around on private jets to environmental functions. Emma Thompson there tucking into a sirloin steak in first class for crying out loud.

It is all a load of hypocritical bollocks. 

Such flawed thinking. 

My travelling is a required part of my job, and in my job I try to fix another issue we have. It seems like in your simple way of thinking everything we do should now be geared towards reducing climate change, otherwise we are HYPOCRITICAL! 

As for Graham, he can answer for himself, but if you think that reducing scientific endavours is the solution than you are even more anti-science than I thought 

[DieselDaisy]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Such a flawed logic. 

Anyway, people are willing to reduce their carbon emission. In Norway every 4th car sold now is an electric and the idea is that by 2025, 100 % will be electric. We also travel less with planes. And we cycle and walk more to work. We are making individual sacrifices not forced upon us. But going with your logic you might say, "why are we having pets?", "why are we keeping our houses warm?", and "why do we drink anything but water from the nearest creek if we were serious about climate change?" And the answer is that most people either don't care about future generations to make any changes to their lives or they expect that the governmental policies that are implemented will be sufficient and that we can still afford us some conveniences without this ruining everything.    

Just a load of explanation so you can continue to sanctimoniously espouse environmentalism whilst jetting around the globe in search of sperm to eat. 

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Such flawed thinking. 

My travelling is a required part of my job, and in my job I try to fix another issue we have. It seems like in your simple way of thinking everything we do should now be geared towards reducing climate change, otherwise we are HYPOCRITICAL! 

As for Graham, he can answer for himself, but if you think that reducing scientific endavours is the solution than you are even more anti-science than I thought 

I think if we drill down deeper, the reasonable answer would be taxing non essential travel. If you are working on actual scientific research or trying to close an important business deal that's fine. But the random vacation trips to Macchu Picchu or Paris might have to be taxed to reduce demand. Now please stop arguing with the low hanging fruit and reply to my post with actual proposals!

[SoulMonster]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

Just a load of explanation so you can continue to sanctimoniously espouse environmentalism whilst jetting around the globe in search of sperm to eat. 

My rationale is that if I can convince 100 people to be more green, then that counters my continuous travels across the world. I am green-by-proxy ;).

Seriously, you are daft.

1 minute ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

I think if we drill down deeper, the reasonable answer would be taxing non essential travel. If you are working on actual scientific research or trying to close an important business deal that's fine. But the random vacation trips to Macchu Picchu or Paris might have to be taxed to reduce demand. Now please stop arguing with the low hanging fruit and reply to my post with actual proposals!

I think that is a good idea and likely something that will be implemented ast some point.

Why are you asking me for actual proposals? I am not a climate change expert. I trust the scientists, go read the IPCC report 2019, I am sure there are good proposals in there.

[DieselDaisy]

The logical outcome of any good environmentalist's convictions is surely to forgo planes and cars altogether and establish a self-sufficient vegan lifestyle. Greta in fairness does not travel by air. Why can't you do the same?

PS

I think she is also vegan.

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

My rationale is that if I can convince 100 people to be more green, then that counters my continuous travels across the world. I am green-by-proxy ;).

Seriously, you are daft.

Utter smuggery of the highest order, like those celebrities who chuck wads of cash at dodgy companies to plant a bunch of trees to offset their carbon emissions. 

Edited September 24, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

2 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

Why are you asking me for actual proposals? I am not a climate change expert. I trust the scientists, go read the IPCC report 2019, I am sure there are good proposals in there.

Oh c'mon man, this is a message board, not a trial. Let's get some actual back and forth going on policy proposals rather than arguing over an autistic child or celebrity travel.

[SoulMonster]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

The logical outcome of any good environmentalist's convictions is surely to forgo planes and cars altogether and establish a self-sufficient vegan lifestyle. Greta in fairness does not travel by air. Why can't you do the same?

Because I don't think it is required. It seems to me you think every person concerned about climate change must go to extreme measures. You seem to be against the EU, why don't you spend every day sitting in front of the Parliament protesting against the EU? Why must I be extreme and not you? Ah, because this is just rhetoric to you, you are not really interested in arguing properly but just try to dismiss those you disagree with, even with flawed arguments.

4 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

Oh c'mon man, this is a message board, not a trial. Let's get some actual back and forth going on policy proposals rather than arguing over an autistic child or celebrity travel.

I don't have any input on policies, it is really not my field. I will have to defer to the IPCC or green politicians on this. Sorry.

[DieselDaisy]

1 minute ago, SoulMonster said:

Because I don't think it is required. It seems to me you think every person concerned about climate change must go to extreme measures. You seem to be against the EU, why don't you spend every day sitting in front of the Parliament protesting against the EU? Why must I be extreme and not you? Ah, because this is just rhetoric to you, you are not really interested in arguing properly but just try to dismiss those you disagree with, even with flawed arguments.

Because there isn't a direct causal relationship between my disliking of the EU and the EU's existence; by me protesting outside Parliament I probably won't shorten the EU's history, nor alter its policies. There is however a causal relationship, however minor, between your travel patterns and resulting emissions and the environment. 

 

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

Because there isn't a direct causal relationship between my disliking of the EU and the EU's existence; by me protesting outside Parliament I probably won't shorten the EU's history, nor alter its policies. There is however a causal relationship, however minor, between your travel patterns and resulting emissions and the environment. 

Er, you could devote all your time to discuss Brexit, trying to convince individual politicians to accept the next deal, or go for a no-deal. There is definitely a causal relationship between what you can do and the likelihood of Brexit. Yet you don't. Because you aren't that extreme. Or as you would describe yourself, "HYPOCRITICAL!" (that was NOT a direct quote by the way).

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

And there it goes. This thread derails into discussions of one's personal habits, rather than a discussion of systems or actual policy proposals. Sad! 

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

Er, you could devote all your time to discuss Brexit, trying to convince individual politicians to accept the next deal, or go for a no-deal. There is definitely a causal relationship between what you can do and the likelihood of Brexit. Yet you don't. Because you aren't that extreme. Or as you would describe yourself, "HYPOCRITICAL!" (that was NOT a direct quote by the way).

There is no causal connection between my loathing of the EU and its existence as an organisation. Your itineraries however are a percentage, however small, of the very problem. Or to put it another way, you supply, through your lifestyle, some of the very ingredients that form the problem. By me not protesting with too great zeal against the EU, I become merely a passive element. You however will always be an active contributor to the problem.

[SoulMonster]

1 minute ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

And there it goes. This thread derails into discussions of one's personal habits, rather than a discussion of systems or actual policy proposals. Sad! 

Well, I can always try, but bear with me if it is just brainstorming. So, I kind of think that reducing carbon emissions makes a lot of sense. And I think that the gradual replacement of fossil cars for electric cars is a great effort in that direction. Maybe governments should do more to speed up this process? And additionally, how about investing more in electric trains and planes? I think that makes sense. 

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

There is no causal connection between my loathing of the EU and its existence as an organisation. Your itineraries however are a percentage, however small, of the very problem. Or to put it another way, you supply, through your lifestyle, some of the very ingredients that form the problem. By me not protesting with too great zeal against the EU, I become merely a passive element. You however will always be an active contributor to the problem.

I was talking about your hope of leaving the EU.

[DieselDaisy]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

Well, I can always try, but bear with me if it is just brainstorming. So, I kind of think that reducing carbon emissions makes a lot of sense. And I think that the gradual replacement of fossil cars for electric cars is a great effort in that direction. Maybe governments should do more to speed up this process? And additionally, how about investing more in electric trains and planes? I think that makes sense. 

I was talking about your hope of leaving the EU.

If my hope for withdrawing does not transpire into activity though, protesting outside Parliament for instance, I am a passive critic. I am not actively aiding the United Kingdom's membership of that rotten organisation. If however you continue to travel on planes you are nourishing the problem. You are an active contributor.

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

Just now, SoulMonster said:

Well, I can always try, but bear with me if it is just brainstorming. So, I kind of think that reducing carbon emissions makes a lot of sense. And I think that the gradual replacement of fossil cars for electric cars is a great effort in that direction. Maybe governments should do more to speed up this process? And additionally, how about investing more in electric trains and planes? I think that makes sense. 

Absolutely. We can do a lot better job of incentivizing electric cars through regulation and tax policy. The thing is being able to generate the amount of electricity needed for such a switch. I'm on board with nuclear to provide the bulk of this. I'm honestly shocked that the climate change activists haven't jumped on this bandwagon. Modern techniques for building nuclear power plants and maintaining safety standards would be nothing like what happened at Chernobyl. It's actually quite safe and can produce a huge amount of energy. France has always been a leader in this regard.

[SoulMonster]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

If my hope for withdrawing does not transpire into activity though, protesting outside Parliament for instance, I am a passive critic. I am not actively aiding the United Kingdom's membership of that rotten organisation. If however you continue to travel on planes you are nourishing the problem. You are an active contributor.

But you could do more to make sure you leave the EU. Not devoting your entire time and life to this is HYPOCRITICAL! Just like it is hypocritical of me to, say, drink imported beer.

But this is of course nonsense, DieselDaisy, because people don't have to go all in on every topic for their intentions to be genuine, nor for their efforts to have an effect. People who vote green politicians aren't hypocritical because they still enjoy a car drive. People who argue for stricter carbon emission laws on the industry aren't hypocritical because they have a dog. People who cheer for Thurnberg aren't hypocritical because they go on a rare vacation. And no one should think that you aren't sincere in your belief that the UK are better of outside of the Eu even if you don't spend your entire wake hours trying to convince politicians. Only in your flawed mind does any of this make sense.

3 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

Absolutely. We can do a lot better job of incentivizing electric cars through regulation and tax policy. The thing is being able to generate the amount of electricity needed for such a switch. I'm on board with nuclear to provide the bulk of this. I'm honestly shocked that the climate change activists haven't jumped on this bandwagon. Modern techniques for building nuclear power plants and maintaining safety standards would be nothing like what happened at Chernobyl. It's actually quite safe and can produce a huge amount of energy. France has always been a leader in this regard.

I agree with you, nuclear power is definitely the way forward. 

[DieselDaisy]

5 minutes ago, SoulMonster said:

But you could do more to make sure you leave the EU. Not devoting your entire time and life to this is HYPOCRITICAL! Just like it is hypocritical of me to, say, drink imported beer.

But this is of course nonsense, DieselDaisy, because people don't have to go all in on every topic for their intentions to be genuine, nor for their efforts to have an effect. People who vote green politicians aren't hypocritical because they still enjoy a car drive. People who argue for stricter carbon emission laws on the industry aren't hypocritical because they have a dog. People who cheer for Thurnberg aren't hypocritical because they go on a rare vacation. And no one should think that you aren't sincere in your belief that the UK are better of outside of the Eu even if you don't spend your entire wake hours trying to convince politicians. Only in your flawed mind does any of this make sense.

You could be an exemplar. By not travelling on cars and planes people might say, ''there is that Soul Monster, look, he could really use the transport as his ego is so large but he has prohibited it because of his outstanding moral principals. Maybe we should follow his lead''. 

Greta does it! She doesn't use planes! 

I have an animal rights nutter auntie (''plastic waste in the seas'' etc etc), yet it doesn't put her off her Turkey Christmas Dinner or her Lamb and mint sauce, does it? The world is awash with do-gooder hypocrites such as yourself and my auntie. Two sets of rules, one for themselves, one for others; constantly willing to lecture but never willing to practice what they preach. 

Edited September 24, 2019 by DieselDaisy

[Basic_GnR_Fan]

1 minute ago, DieselDaisy said:

I have an animal rights nutter auntie (''plastic waste in the seas'' etc etc), yet it doesn't put her off her Turkey Christmas Dinner or her Lamb and mint sauce, does it? The world is awash with do-gooder hypocrites such as yourself and my auntie. Two sets of rules, one for themselves, one for others; constantly willing to lecture but never willing to practice what they preach. 

I have to defend Soul in this regard. Very few people want to sacrifice. I want to travel the world, eat cheeseburgers, drive my car wherever I want, etc. That's because I'm human. What we need is actual policy that provides incentives for good behavior in this regard. In the same way, you wouldn't expect a company to not overpollute if they were left to their own devices. That's why we have regulation! We need to stop expecting people to save the planet or even save themselves on their own accord (my God look at the obesity rates in the US). Incentives and expectations do need to be placed on people.

[soon]

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

I have an animal rights nutter auntie (''plastic waste in the seas'' etc etc), yet it doesn't put her off her Turkey Christmas Dinner or her Lamb and mint sauce,

I get Lamb and mint sauce without plastic being involved. Lamb in butchers paper from the farmer and mint sauce from my garden. I am lucky enough to shop at a zero waste store too. I hope they continue to spread and become common. So what name will you call me? 

[SoulMonster]

4 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

You could be an exemplar. 

I am already doing what I think is enough. I don't have to be extreme, your logic is flawed.

 

[soon]

There i was treating myself to a cheeseburger at the park when bus after bus of tiny's rolls up. And you guessed it they were there as part of the climate strike! But heres the only reason to share this, a few kiddos gathered around one chicks phone and they clamoured about how much they love the song that was playing... and then in the cutest, most unsure unison they all sing "Radio goo-goo, radio ga-ga" 

So I believe that the future is in good hands. Darlings all. It was the least rock n roll rendition ever, but, they're okay in my books.

Edited September 24, 2019 by soon

[DieselDaisy]

12 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

I have to defend Soul in this regard. Very few people want to sacrifice. I want to travel the world, eat cheeseburgers, drive my car wherever I want, etc. That's because I'm human. What we need is actual policy that provides incentives for good behavior in this regard. In the same way, you wouldn't expect a company to not overpollute if they were left to their own devices. That's why we have regulation! We need to stop expecting people to save the planet or even save themselves on their own accord (my God look at the obesity rates in the US). Incentives and expectations do need to be placed on people.

That is my point. 

[SoulMonster]

11 minutes ago, Basic_GnR_Fan said:

I have to defend Soul in this regard. Very few people want to sacrifice. 

But I do make personal sacrifices, don't get taken in by DieselDaisy's inane argument that if I travel in my work it must mean I am not sincere about my environmental devotion ;). This idea that we all have to be extreme otherwise our convictions can be dismissed, is just stupid. We all have to balamce our lives in various way, making compromises between various things. We can't all afford to go all in on every issue that is important to us, even if we would have liked to do more. 

All in all it is just a flawed effort to discredit people, likely so they can feel better about doing little.

2 minutes ago, DieselDaisy said:

That is my point. 

Well, it might be now but it wasn't before. Before it was that unless you go all in your are a hypocrite 

[DieselDaisy]

If I was passionate enough about environmentalism - I am not but for sake of argument...- to preach to others I would, as the Americans say, go the distance. I'd forgo plane and car travel. I'd swear off consumption of meat. I'd buy the disgusting cardigan. I'd listen to the Grateful Dead. I'd have to feel comfortable that I am living up to the moral standard I am expecting of others. 

[DieselDaisy]

16 minutes ago, soon said:

I get Lamb and mint sauce without plastic being involved. Lamb in butchers paper from the farmer and mint sauce from my garden. I am lucky enough to shop at a zero waste store too. I hope they continue to spread and become common. So what name will you call me? 

Plastic kills animals like so I insist on my, freshly killed animal, being wrapped up in paper (which kills trees by the way).

 

[SoulMonster]

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

If I was passionate enough about environmentalism - I am not but for sake of argument...- to preach to others I would, as the Americans say, go the distance. I'd forgo plane and car travel. I'd swear off consumption of meat. I'd buy the disgusting cardigan. I'd listen to the Grateful Dead. I'd have to feel comfortable that I am living up to the moral standard I am expecting of others. 

Everybody who is passionate enough about something would go to such lengths  But you don't have to be that passionate to make a difference, you don't have to be that passionate to do something that helps. You don't have to choose between doing nothing and doing everything. Don't let this flawed notion that you have to do everything for it to be of use, stop you from doing something. It could very well be that something is sufficient, and besides there are other important things in life that also demands your attention.

Just now, DieselDaisy said:

Plastic kills animals like so I insist on my, freshly killed animal, being wrapped up in paper (which kills trees by the way).

Plastic not only kills animals, it disrupts ecosystems which is far, far worse. See, your ignorance leads you to make wrong decisions.